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Thread: Zazen for Beginners Series: THREAD for QUESTIONS, COMMENTS

  1. #351
    Quote Originally Posted by Wondo View Post
    Thank you Jundo for this clarification. My experience with Shikantaza has been similar. Even when I encountered those variations of zazen, I never stopped practicing Shikantaza. It just always made the most sense to me…like a knowing you are home. It is such a beautiful practice and very simple yet very profound. Thank you for creating this place where we can all come as a community and share in such a wonderful way of practicing zazen.

    Gassho,

    Wondo

    Sat Today/LAH
    This is similar to my experience as well; I have tried various forms of meditation (not Zazen, but several attempts at other forms of meditation, most recently western "mindfulness", over the years) and none of it really made much sense to me. When I tried Shikantaza, it was like a light finally turned on. It just makes sense in a way nothing else has.

    Gassho
    SatToday

    -Kelly

  2. #352
    I just finished Lesson Nine and I am filled with so much gratitude for this teaching. Learning that thoughts are natural and not something to be judged is a breath of fresh air. I loved the cloud video because usually, when I think of 'thoughts as clouds' I think of fast moving cartoon type clouds; it was a good reminder of how spread out and lingering clouds ACTUALLY are.

    Gassho
    SatToday
    -Kelly

  3. #353
    Quote Originally Posted by KellyLM View Post
    I just finished Lesson Nine and I am filled with so much gratitude for this teaching. Learning that thoughts are natural and not something to be judged is a breath of fresh air. I loved the cloud video because usually, when I think of 'thoughts as clouds' I think of fast moving cartoon type clouds; it was a good reminder of how spread out and lingering clouds ACTUALLY are.

    Gassho
    SatToday
    -Kelly
    Thank you for sharing Kelly, I am glad you enjoyed it

    Gassho, Tomás
    Sat&LaH

  4. #354
    I just finished Lesson 11 and spent more time focusing on the breath; I'm also reading What is Zen by Norman Fischer and Susan Moon and have been holding a more upright posture as well. I'm noticing something unexpected: it's actually more difficult to maintain focus when I'm paying attention to my breath and posture than it is when I just let everything be.

    Has anyone else had this experience, and am I trying too hard?

    Gassho,
    SatToday
    -Kelly

  5. #355
    Quote Originally Posted by KellyLM View Post
    I just finished Lesson 11 and spent more time focusing on the breath; I'm also reading What is Zen by Norman Fischer and Susan Moon and have been holding a more upright posture as well. I'm noticing something unexpected: it's actually more difficult to maintain focus when I'm paying attention to my breath and posture than it is when I just let everything be.

    Has anyone else had this experience, and am I trying too hard?

    Gassho,
    SatToday
    -Kelly
    Hi Kelly,

    Well, I would advise not to spend too much time worrying about the breath or posture. Just let the breath take care of itself. Oh, we like to breathe deeply, from the belly, but not in any forced or controlled way. Let the breath be natural, at its own pace, and then ... forget about it. Breathing happens naturally, takes care of itself.

    Likewise for the posture. It is not something to regulate or try to perfect, in my book. Find a comfortable way that feels balanced and stable, and then ... forget about it. Maybe adjust now and then as needed, but then ... forget about it again. No need to pay attention to such things all through sitting.

    Gassho, Jundo

    STLah
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  6. #356
    Quote Originally Posted by Jundo View Post
    Hi Kelly,

    Well, I would advise not to spend too much time worrying about the breath or posture. Just let the breath take care of itself. Oh, we like to breathe deeply, from the belly, but not in any forced or controlled way. Let the breath be natural, at its own pace, and then ... forget about it. Breathing happens naturally, takes care of itself.

    Likewise for the posture. It is not something to regulate or try to perfect, in my book. Find a comfortable way that feels balanced and stable, and then ... forget about it. Maybe adjust now and then as needed, but then ... forget about it again. No need to pay attention to such things all through sitting.

    Gassho, Jundo

    STLah

    Thank you Jundo. I suspected as much; I have been doing my best to follow each teaching as I receive it, and I suspect that I will find balance somewhere including all of them with practice.

    Love the cat by the way!

    Gassho,
    SatToday

    -Kelly

  7. #357
    I’ve been watching one video a day before my morning Zazen and I just finished the final beginner’s video this morning. For now I have no questions that haven’t already been asked in this thread, but I just wanted to express my gratitude for this wonderful resource. They’ve been very very helpful, so thank you Jundo!

    Gassho,
    Mason
    Sat

  8. #358
    I visit at least one sitting session with Treeleaf folks every day. Soon I will start Zazenkai because I am well enough. For me Treeleaf has become sitting.
    Gassho
    sat/ lah


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    Lay member, loving kindness; just a guy, Calm Poet, Ubasoku.

  9. #359
    After some reflection, reading the description again and watching the video twice I admit I do not get video 10 "the Mirror" or mirrormind. I understand what is said in the video and about the topic in this thread, but unlike the idea's presented in video 9 about the clouds and the sky, I don't understand how to apply this. I understand the words, but do not know what to do with it?

    Yes, we reflect without judgement just what is there. Just as we don't judge the clouds (or thoughts) that pass through our Zazen. We accept.

    But, what is the difference between the two or are they the same principle explained another way?

    Sorry for running long.

    Gassho,

    Artien
    SatToday
    Last edited by Artien; 06-27-2022 at 07:47 AM.

  10. #360

    Zazen for Beginners Series: THREAD for QUESTIONS, COMMENTS

    Quote Originally Posted by Artien View Post
    After some reflection, reading the description again and watching the video twice I admit I do not get video 10 "the Mirror" or mirrormind. I understand what is said in the video and about the topic in this thread, but unlike the idea's presented in video 9 about the clouds and the sky, I don't understand how to apply this. I understand the words, but do not know what to do with it?

    Yes, we reflect without judgement just what is there. Just as we don't judge the clouds (or thoughts) that pass through our Zazen. We accept.

    But, what is the difference between the two or are they the same principle explained another way?

    Sorry for running long.

    Gassho,

    Artien
    SatToday
    I won’t dare to try and explain anything as if it was doctrine.. I will say just that TO ME, the two are tied into each other.. “Watching clouds” requires an observer and the object observed, so we operate in a realm of separation: I watch “my own” thoughts and don’t interact with them, as if thoughts and observer were distinct. It is an action I take .. The mirror analogy, for me is the unification of that imaginary separation. The mirror is the space in which clouds passing by are reflected.. clouds don’t disturb the mirror, mirror doesn’t stop clouds, clouds and mirror exist as each other. That’s the nature of mind, free of divisions and self. So, I guess I understand it, in few words as : one is a doing and the other is being.
    I’m sure you’ll get a proper and accurate reply soon enough. This is just my incomplete ideas, so don’t give them too much credit, please!
    Sorry, I tried to be brief but still ran long.

    Sat Today
    Last edited by Bion; 06-27-2022 at 11:42 AM.
    Bion
    美音

    -------------------------
    Please consider whatever I might say as my own ideas, experiences and understanding, and not zen doctrine.
    Join me on Insight Timer
    Help me feed those in need by joining my Share The Meal team HERE

  11. #361
    Quote Originally Posted by Artien View Post
    After some reflection, reading the description again and watching the video twice I admit I do not get video 10 "the Mirror" or mirrormind. I understand what is said in the video and about the topic in this thread, but unlike the idea's presented in video 9 about the clouds and the sky, I don't understand how to apply this. I understand the words, but do not know what to do with it?

    Yes, we reflect without judgement just what is there. Just as we don't judge the clouds (or thoughts) that pass through our Zazen. We accept.

    But, what is the difference between the two or are they the same principle explained another way?

    Sorry for running long.

    Gassho,

    Artien
    SatToday
    Just sit Zazen, letting things be in the world, not judging or tangled in thoughts, with a radical allowance of all that is ...

    ... and one is bound to experience what is this "clear mirror." It is as if all the world is held in wholeness and illumination, including us. All things are just "as they are," ups and downs, good and bad, the welcome and unwelcome, beautiful and ugly, all prove Welcome (Big W) in the wholeness of the mirror. The mirror rejects nothing.

    Don't worry so much if you can't get your head around it right now. Just sit with such equanimity.

    The Blue Sky is just the mirror too, and the clouds of thoughts, of this and that, good and bad, etc., are not rejected by the sky. The clouds ARE the sky. You and I are the sky and clouds. It is precisely the same teaching, mirror and sky, clouds and things in the mirror, just different analogies depicting this wholeness which is separation, separation which is the boundless, clear and open wholeness.

    Gassho, J

    STLah
    Last edited by Jundo; 06-27-2022 at 01:44 PM.
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  12. #362
    Thank you, Jundo.

    And thank you too Bion. I like the analogy you presented of doing vs being.

    Gassho,

    Artien
    SatToday

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