My zen, your zen?

[Diarmuid1]

What is zen? I am beginning to realise that this is like the question, what is poetry? or perhaps what is art?

It is dangerous to answer the question.

I am beginning to think that zen is questioning and that the greatest teaching may be, we will never know.

Questions without answers. Questions that don't need answers. Questions that don't want answers.

Is your zen different?

[Jundo]

It is possible to know with perfect clarity and understanding even as one does not know what is served for lunch tomorrow.


Did you sit today?

Gassho, Jundo

SatToday

[Jishin]

Zen is knowing yourself.

Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

[Myosha]

Hello,

Zen is all.


Gassho
Myosha
sat today

[Kyosei]

Zen is knowing yourself.

Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

Zen is unknowing your self.

Gassho

Marcos

#SatToday

[Jishin]

Speaking of Zen is like shitting on Buddhas head. Zen is an action.

Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

[Kokuu]

Zen is an action

I suspect Old Master Gudo would agree with you, Jishin, having read his thoughts on the subject.

However, it is not that words are not also part of Zen.

I don't know if it is dangerous to answer the question, Diarmuid, but it is probably dangerous to think we have a fixed answer that is the same for everyone or won't change with time.

What is Zen? Filling my kettle with water.

Gassho
Kokuu
#sattoday (and won't be using any more words here until I have done so again)

[Jundo]

I really despise these threads (beyond and right through all like and dislike, of course!)

Reminds me of the first 5 minutes of this Stuart Davis episode ...



Gassho, J

SatToday

[Jishin]

I really despise these threads (beyond and right through all like and dislike, of course!)

Reminds me of the first 5 minutes of this Stuart Davis episode ...



Gassho, J

SatToday

I love this video.

Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

[Jundo]

I am beginning to think that zen is questioning and that the greatest teaching may be, we will never know.

Questions without answers. Questions that don't need answers. Questions that don't want answers.

Is your zen different?

I have written this in the past: Zen and Buddhist Practice provides some very clear answers to some very big questions (otherwise, what would all those old Ancestors be on about?) It is just that usually the answer, or the question itself, is not as we thought ...

Here is what I sometimes say ...

---------------------------------------------

You ask: "Does Satori provide the answer to the ‘big questions’?" Depends what question ... and if there ever was a question.

Our Practice provides some very specific (and wonderful) answers to some 'big questions'. For example, Buddhism provides very clear guidance for and understanding of the origins of human suffering (Dukkha) in this life. The "Four Noble Truths". for example, provide a formula that effectively describes the sickness and provides the medicine for its treatment or cure. (More about that here: http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showt...y-Dooby-Dukkha).

Our Practice provides some very wonderful answers to other 'big questions' by instructing us to drop the questions as meaningless. Some questions are as pointless as our asking 'how many angels can gather on the head of a pin' or 'what color are the rabbits that live on the moon'. An example of such a question may be "where do we 'go' when we die, and where did we 'come from' before we were born" (Some interesting perspectives present themselves to those when we drop human measures such as coming and going, divisions of me and not me). Hand in hand with this, many questions we regularly ask may just be phrased poorly, biased by our narrow, anthropocentric human understanding. An example of that may be "why do 'bad things' happen in the world". When we change the way the question is asked, getting a bit past the "I want I judge I demand", answers begin to present themselves (perhaps a kind of peace and wholeness of the world that holds all its broken pieces and potholes). Hitting the "reset button' on so many of our misguided questions are what most of those old Koans are on about, by the way.

Sometimes Zen provides answers by allowing us to encounter the world through new perspectives, and non-perspective, and topsy-turvy outlooks unlike our usual "common sense" ways of encountering ourself and the world (your "self" and the world two but not two, by the way). For example, for Zen folks, not only is the present flowing into the future, but time is also the future flowing into the present which completely holds the past at once. Or, we can be like sailors who may not know every wave and grain of sand and source and contour of the whole ocean, but who can taste the whole ocean in every salty drop. We are sailors who realize that sea and salt and sand and sailboat, wave and wind and the sailor herself are just one beyond one, and we flow into all things as all flow and live through us. We realize that we are intimately every grain of sand, star in the sky and blade of grass on the shore as much as we are each hair on our own heads or our own eyes ... and yet we also are not. We can know all this with crystal clarity.

And sometimes, Buddhism provides no answer to some 'big questions' (although that may be a kind of 'answer' too!). One such question may be whether or not there is actually a 'God' in the Judeo-Christian sense (and whether, for example, Jesus was 'His Son'). To such questions, our Zen Practice allows us to believe what we wish, or to take no stand at all. I often say:

If there is a "God" ... whether in the Judeo-Christian way or some other, whether named "Allah" "Jehovah" "Thor" "Brahma" or "Stanley" ... I will fetch water and chop wood, seeking to live in a gentle way, avoiding harm to self and others (not two, by the way).

If there is no "God" "Allah" or "Stanley", or any source or creator or point to the universe at all, I will fetch water and chop wood, seeking to live in a gentle way, avoiding harm to self and others (not two, by the way).

I do not know if, in the next life, that "gentle way, avoiding harm" will buy me a ticket to heaven and keep me out of hell ... but I know for a fact that it will go far to do so in this life, today, where I see people create all manner of "heavens and hells" for themselves and those around them by their harmful words, thoughts and acts in this life.


All that while Zen will do not a darn thing to tell you the weather next week, what is for lunch the following Tuesday or the coming winner of the Kentucky Derby. We just cross those bridges when we come to them.

So, my response for today on whether Zen provides answers: Sometimes YES! Sometimes NO! Sometimes MAYBE! Sometimes FOR SURE! Sometimes WHO CARES!? Sometimes WHAT QUESTION?!?!

Gassho, Jundo

SatToday

[Mp]

Zen is life. Zen is not dualistic, it is about unity, not opposites. =)

Gassho
Shingen

s@today

[Risho]

I would strongly suggest that before you figure out what "your" zen is, really study, integrate and understand the forms of a particular flavor of zen. Then your zen will naturally spring forth. For example, if you choose to practice here, really get to understand all the nuances of what's going on here. Ask why we do this or that. Practice it, understand it fully.

It's like with coding, or martial arts, or any discipline. People like to cite iconoclasts like Bruce Lee or Rinzai. Oh I don't need forms; Bruce Lee didn't need forms.

Or let me burn my books, that zen teacher (I can't remember his name) was famous for burning his books because he realized that he couldn't answer questions without relying on what he read. It wasn't integrated into his life. But again, we're talking about someone who really, really, really studied and practiced his ass off.

Going back to Bruce Lee, because I love Bruce Lee. lol

1. Bruce Lee was a prodigy, and frankly a lot of people could not do what he did.
2. Bruce Lee invested his entire life (possibly to his detriment) into learning the forms like the back of his hand. So he had a very, very, very solid understanding of martial arts basics before he created his own.

Anyway not to digress. I think it takes many, many, many years of practicing, following in the footsteps of our Buddha ancestors to get a taste of our own zen, if we even get that far. I mean there is a lot, a tremendous amount to this practice.

But at the same time, I think when we drop thoughts of "my" or "your" we very naturally practice in our own way; I mean we can only live our own life and integrate our practice accordingly. No one can do that for us.

Gassho,

Risho
-sattoday

[Jishin]

Risho lies. That's not how I do it.

Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

[Risho]

hahahahahaahahhahha

Fair enough

[Jishin]

[Kyonin]

Zen is this:





.




Gassho,

Kyonin
#SatToday

[Kaishin]

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

-satToday

[Shokai]

Questions without answers. Questions that don't need answers. Questions that don't want answers.

As I recall from an Interogation Course about 25 years ago given by an ex-interrogator U.S.Army in Nam;
If you don't want to hear the answer, don't ask the question. Meaning you can often get yourself tangled in a downward spiral such as threads like this.
Let's get on with our practice.

Just Sit

"SatToday"

[Matt]

If there is a "God" ... whether in the Judeo-Christian way or some other, whether named "Allah" "Jehovah" "Thor" "Brahma" or "Stanley" ... I will fetch water and chop wood, seeking to live in a gentle way, avoiding harm to self and others (not two, by the way).

If there is no "God" "Allah" or "Stanley", or any source or creator or point to the universe at all, I will fetch water and chop wood, seeking to live in a gentle way, avoiding harm to self and others (not two, by the way).

Catching up on some recent threads...Thank you for this teaching.

Deep bows,
Matt
#SatToday

[alan.r]

I'm catching up on a few threads as well because life is busy with a new baby. Life is busy with a new baby when the new baby gets sick. Life is busy with a new baby who is sick who gets both parents sick. Life is even busier with a new baby who is sick, parents who are sick, baby beginning Montessori school, Mom returning to work! That's been my zen this week. Doing what needs done with joy and care though I feel terrible. (PS: we're all feeling better).

Also: I just wanted to say thanks for this thread, in particular Jundo's "answer."

Gassho,
Alan
sat today

[Shugen]

To quote someone: "All Of Life Is Our Temple"

Gassho,

Shugen

Sattoday