The Sangha

[6yx]

One thing I read early on was to take refuge in three...jewels? I forget the word, but it was to take refuge in the dharma, the Buddha and the Sangha.

I'm not fond of people and always find it fascinating and frustrating when I feel the need to be with...like minded people?

I don't understand it. My wife would point out that our human nature is social. Perhaps it is that simple? Perhaps I'm an urban hermit? Perhaps that is a very flattering thing to say about myself.

I come here to read and fill that human need. Or whatever it is.

Thankfully you're here. Filling something unexplained. Maybe better left that way?

What are your thoughts on the need for Sangha...community?

Thank you for being here. Wherever that is.

[Jishin]

You are not making any sense. But I am glad you are here.

Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

[Jakuden]

One thing I read early on was to take refuge in three...jewels? I forget the word, but it was to take refuge in the dharma, the Buddha and the Sangha.

I'm not fond of people and always find it fascinating and frustrating when I feel the need to be with...like minded people?

I don't understand it. My wife would point out that our human nature is social. Perhaps it is that simple? Perhaps I'm an urban hermit? Perhaps that is a very flattering thing to say about myself.

I come here to read and fill that human need. Or whatever it is.

Thankfully you're here. Filling something unexplained. Maybe better left that way?

What are your thoughts on the need for Sangha...community?

Thank you for being here. Wherever that is.

Sounds like you might just be an introvert, like a lot of us here! Introverts need social contact just like everyone else, but in controlled quantities And we need solitude to recharge our batteries. Sitting Zazen with others here is perfect practice for introverts, IMHO. Thank you for being here with us as well!

Gassho,
Jakuden
SatToday


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Mp]

Hey 6yx ... did you sit today? =)

Solo practice is good, group practice is good. Both have wonderful value and each the their own merit in their own time. When sitting in solitude, sit in solitude. When sitting with a Sangha, sit with a Sangha. Engagement is a very powerful and meaningful practice and we should do our best to incorporate it into our lives when we can.

I too am an introvert, but when I am with the Sangha I am nothing other then my authentic self, as you are your authentic self. In my own view, one of the great things about Sangha is we get to put down these labels and conditions that we or others put on us and are allowed to just be ourselves. The Three Jewels are Buddha (the Enlightened One), Dharma (the Teachings of the Buddha), and Sangha (the community of practitioners) ... each have their own value and benefit and yet, each no separate than one another. =)

One last thing ... even when you sit in solitude you sit with the whole universe, with the Buddha, the Dharma, the Sangha. =)

Gassho
Shingen

s@today

[FaithMoon]

6yx-

You have taken a vow to save all sentient beings? That is a vow shared with your sangha mates. I for one like to keep in touch with those who share this vow. It is something like concentrating the spiritual power...if that is a thing

FaithMoon
st

[Jundo]

One thing I read early on was to take refuge in three...jewels? I forget the word, but it was to take refuge in the dharma, the Buddha and the Sangha.

I'm not fond of people and always find it fascinating and frustrating when I feel the need to be with...like minded people?

I don't understand it. My wife would point out that our human nature is social. Perhaps it is that simple? Perhaps I'm an urban hermit? Perhaps that is a very flattering thing to say about myself.

I come here to read and fill that human need. Or whatever it is.

Thankfully you're here. Filling something unexplained. Maybe better left that way?

What are your thoughts on the need for Sangha...community?

Thank you for being here. Wherever that is.

Zen and all Buddhism has a long history of Sangha ... the need and good that comes from folks coming together to support each other.

Zen and all Buddhism has a long history of hermits ... the need and good to sometimes be with our "self" by ourself (and what "self"?), and maybe just our "self" of the mountains and birds.

One such hermit was the great 18th Century Soto Zen priest Ryokan ... sometimes with the helping hand of others, sometimes on his own ...

My hermitage lies in a forest all around me,
Everything is thick and green
no one finds this place,
Only those who have lost their way.

No news of the affairs of men
Only the occasional song of a woodcutter.

A thousand peaks, ten thousand mountain streams
yet no signs of anyone.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ry%C5%8Dkan

Gassho, J

SatToday (the ultimate self with the self beyond self)

[Ongen]

Hi 6Yx,

- do you have a human name?

Nothing unexplained to fill, nothing to be left that way.

Sangha is great support for continued practice, and if needed for other areas of life. And perhaps once you find one that clicks with you (treeleaf), while you're not used to having that click, it can be strange. I know! But even in the midst of that, there's no reason to worry about it. Indeed we're all human, all group-animals in the end. Each one of us has a thingie deep down that clicks when we find the right group, whether we think of ourselves as being introverts or not.

Just be yourself here, come in when you want to and don't when you don't want to. And don't worry too much about why, how and what if. That's all superficial thought anyway

Gassho
Ongen

Sat Today

[Meian]

Namaste 6Yx,

I agree with all that has been shared so far. I too am an introvert, yet i do need community, and TreeLeaf fills my need for community beautifully. I am comfortable here - yet challenged - and i feel very much at home here.

And whenever i start to feel or think that i am all alone in my practice, or can't attend most of the sit sessions, I remember Shingen's words above^^ that every time I sit, I sit with my sangha in spirit, and we are all sitting together. That always comforts me. I get drained quickly being around people for too long (a few hours at best), but in this virtual sangha, I can participate and be with like-minded folks without draining them or myself

Welcome 6Yx! Sit today, and continue sharing your thoughts with us as you feel comfortable

Gassho
Kim
Sat today

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

[Seido]

When I first started getting seriously involved in Buddhism, I was originally turned off on refuge in Sangha. I thought things to my self like "I don't need anyone else", "Buddha said be a lantern unto yourself", and "others have nothing to do with my personal enlightenment".

After a lot of thinking and introspection, I started to question my reluctance for Sangha, in essence, a dependence on others. My reluctance to depend on others was a poisonous attachment to myself. I realized that refuge in Sangha is an acknowledgement we are all one, and interdependent. Together we help, together we hurt, but together we are one, and none, in and of the same.

Some say Sangha is your local Buddhist community, temple or school. You practice together, for each other. You keep each other honest, and offer support when needed. After all, we're still just humans, flaws and all.

Some think Sangha can be your community, family, friends, or even the whole world, as we're all one and interdependent.

So my thoughts on the need for Sangha is that yes, it is needed. And you must take refuge in Buddha, Dharma and Sangha. How you interpret and take action on that refuge is a personal practice matter, and only you can determine what it means for you. There is nothing wrong with being dedicated to your Sangha and involved with others, there is nothing wrong with being a hermit... There is nothing wrong.

Gassho,
Seidō
SatToday

[Kyosei]

Hi 6Yx.

I'm here.

We (probably) share the same interest in Zen Buddhism, maybe we share the same interest on comprehending and maybe achieve the Buddhadharma.

Although I'm here and you are there, we're sharing this virtual space to keep in touch, supporting the practice of each other, through "tips" or counseling, or sharing thoughts that may be very helpful as we pass through some similar experiences sometimes... And so it is in a presential Sangha meeting I guess.

I guess this means a Sangha. An "integrated" community. Is this worth of take refuge?! Sometimes I guess we don't have a chance. And feeling "apart" is just another delusion.

If we do not share ANY interests at all, I guess we are on a Sangha anyway. Maybe, a broader Sangha. A "Sangha" of all sentient beings?!

If all has Buddha-Nature ("as they say"), for "me" it is impossible to be apart of "everyone". Thus, we are "community" always, always connected by means of the flux of causes and effects. By means of Karma.

This is something your questioning brought me into express here, so you already showed me the importance of Sangha.

I take refuge in the Sangha.

Thank you for being.

Gassho.

[Jundo]

I remind all (and myself) that all Mahayana Buddhists undertake the Bodhisattva Vow for the aid of all Sentient Beings. We should avoid the selfish path. All the Sentient Beings include you, but it is not about you ... not about your saving alone nor your personal rescue (a Bodhisattva vows to be the last one into the life raft).

So many folks Practice for their own suffering, their own attainment of peace. Little do we realize that true peace and rescue from suffering comes from not being so into "my own" and my attainment.

Gassho, Jundo

SatToday

[6yx]

Thank you all for your responses. I find it all very comforting. And challenging to really articulate that comfort.

Why did I post? I find myself searching for local places I could go and meditate, but quickly soured and other ideologies besides just sitting.

Since I find myself returning here, I felt the need to post about that need so that hopefully someone here could hear what I had to say and hopefully clear it up. Which you have.

My name is Chris.

I guess alone and with you
I sat today.

[Kaishin]

I understand. I'm not much of a people person. Definitely not a "group" person. I doubt I'd attend meetings even if there were a Soto sangha within walking distance. We all need sangha, but not necessarily that kind of sangha. If that were required, I wouldn't practice at all, probably. Treeleaf is great.

[FaithMoon]

I've lived in zen centers. Practicing with other people can be frustrating, heartwarming....just the whole gamut seems to be amplified in a sangha. I know that sometimes really horrific things can happen, stemming from group think and power plays and spiritual materialism run amuck. "Everything would be great, if it weren't for other people" -- I've heard this as a joke, but who hasn't thought it? Some sangha mates may not necessarily be people I would choose as friends...but they are my brothers/sisters on the path. Once you are satisfied that a group is running with integrity, jump in. Introverts, extraverts, self-promoters, whatever, will rub up against each other and the practice will wear down the rough edges. Can be very uncomfortable at times: on the zafu, off the zafu...things come up. As someone here says: it's all good practice.

FaithMoon
st

[Kyotai]

I too felt drawn to find a local meditation group and have dabbled in a few over the years. But with shift work, kids and family life, I could rarely find the time to attend one. Nowdays, when I can, I like to sit live with Shingen's evening sits on G+. Monday through Thursday. I use my Ipad. Perhaps that might be an option for you.

Thank you for posting.

Gassho, Kyotai
ST

[Meian]

I understand. I'm not much of a people person. Definitely not a "group" person. I doubt I'd attend meetings even if there were a Soto sangha within walking distance. We all need sangha, but not necessarily that kind of sangha. If that were required, I wouldn't practice at all, probably. Treeleaf is great.

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

[Shugen]

Hello all,

I am also an introvert - I would much rather be on my back porch watching the sun go down and listening to the birds. Yet, I have traveled to places I never would have even considered traveling to, lived in uncomfortably close quarters for days at a time with complete strangers, intentionally sleep-deprived myself and have absolutely loved it! This practice is a funny thing...

Gassho,

Shugen

#sattoday (alone and with everything and everyone)

[Kokuu]

Hi all

I just read this in Katagiri Roshi's 'You Have To Say Something' and thought it was aposite to this discussion:

There are two discourses on the sangha by the Buddha that appear to be contradictory. In one he speaks of the virtues of living in solitude. In the other he says we should find a wise and good friend with whom we can walk through life. But these teachings aren't actually contradictory. Both refer to the spirit of self-discovery, of coming to the realization that you live with all beings and that your life is inseparable from those of others.

Gassho
Kokuu
#sattodaywithsomebirdsandasquirrel

[Kyonin]

Hi Chris,

We do need the sangha in order to just be part of it. We learn, we support each other. But at the same time we spend time all alone because its calming and refreshing.

I guess there's anything wrong in looking for some privacy from time to time, but remember that you are surrounded with people to whom you owe gratitude. Plus, dharma (among a lot of things) is also helping other sentient beings.

So we stay alone. We are happy around others. We sit regardless.

Gassho,

Kyonin
#SatToday

[Emmet]

I'm an introvert and I practiced for years with very strong brick-and-mortar sanghas. When I became ill, we moved to a rural area to be closer to family. For all I know, I'm the only Buddhist within a 100 mile radius, and I no longer drive.
I can assure you; hermitage is not all it's cracked up to be. There are very good reasons that 'sangha' is one of the 'Three Jewels'.
Attachments or not, I miss them very, very much.

[Shoki]

I too am a shy, introverted loner. I go through Tree Leaf a lot but do not comment or participate as much as I probably should because of this. Although they say zen is the study of the self, it's not about you. There are things we can get here that you can't find in a hundred books because it's live humans who help each other out. Sentient beings should be supported. We're like a bunch of people holding up a tent. If somebody walks away something might start to sag.

Gassho
Sat Today
James

[Jundo]

We're like a bunch of people holding up a tent. If somebody walks away something might start to sag.

Gassho
Sat Today
James

Thank you and so many others here for being the tent poles that help hold the roof up.

Gassho, J

SatToday

[alkds1989]

According to the meyers briggs personality test I am an Introvert, iNtuition, Feeling, Perception type(or INFP for short). Apparently INFPs make up 4 percent of the population, and tend to have a hard time in social situations. That being said, I've found this place to be nothing but supportive. That alone makes it worthwhile to me.

Gassho,
Josh
Sat Today

[Tb]

Hi.

As an introvert, i understand the notion all of you have given
It is hard to give an grouphug unless you are several people, and once you have really practiced with a group, you never want to go back to solitary practice because it is so much easier, and fun, practicing together.
It will be hard at first, coming out of your shell, exposing the soft inner. Eventually, you will find it is much more comfortable touching soft skin rather than hard shell.

According to legend, and scriptures, Gautama Buddha adviced against solitary practice for the self and for communal practice for all.
The strength, and comfort, of the sangha is an very important part of our practice.
That is one of the reasons we have communal practices like online sittings, sewingsessions, and the coffeehouse.
The Treeleaf coffehouse (was the teaparty or "Sharing Helpful and Insightful Tips"-party) was created just for these reasons, to help the Sangha build Sangha, and look how much good this practice has done.
Because, as Jundo said, our practice is not to raise one person alone.

Mtfbwy
Fugen

#Sat2day

[Doshin]

Interesting thoughts by all. After reading everyone's perspective it begs the question "Do you need to be an introvert to be a Zen practioner?"

My observation is that we evolved as a social species (like it or not) for survival. However, more like small bands (my preference) than huge cities where our ever increasing population is causing most to reside which brings new challenges for social adaptation. After reading folks thoughts, I am not sure I would be labeled an introvert by observers but I sure do need alone time (for long periods!) so I always considered my self outwardly an extrovert and inwardly an introvert. Dont know how the therapist will read that. I identified with folks above which was reassuring that we are more alike than not. I spent a life being in "front" but would need to 'hide out" in the evenings to recharge the batteries (as Jakuden wisely shares).

So Chris, we are all similar which is why I too return here. I dont have these types of discussions with others (well my wife, yes). Be well...you cant live with us and you cant live without us, I think, at least that is what I convinced myself of years ago. But then what do I know, I live in the middle of nowhere.

Gassho
Doshin
sattoday

[FlamingDollar]

Hi everyone,

A definition I found from my Theravada training was that the sangha that one would take refuge in would be the "noble sangha", meaning the monastics and laity who've achieved some level of enlightenment. Food for thought, possibly?

Gassho,
Will

SatToday

[Jishin]

Hi,

I would say a Sangha is where you go to hang out and don't get thrown out or banned for being weird.

Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

[Myosha]

Hi everyone,

A definition I found from my Theravada training was that the sangha that one would take refuge in would be the "noble sangha", meaning the monastics and laity who've achieved some level of enlightenment. Food for thought, possibly?

Gassho,
Will

SatToday

Hello,

Realized, as there is no distinctions, all beings, everywhere, is sangha.


Gassho
Myosha
sat today

[treebeard]

The healing power of solitude often prepares me to be of greater ability to serve in my family and community so I think in many ways both are tied together for me even though I am an introvert as well. I have also found great benefit in the literal Sangha of Treeleaf as it is often helpful to learn from other's experiences to expand ourselves and understand others perspectives.

Gassho,
Paul

Sat today


Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920AZ using Tapatalk

[Tb]

After reading everyone's perspective it begs the question "Do you need to be an introvert to be a Zen practioner?"

Hi.

No, definitely not, but sometimes it helps.

Mtfbwy
Fugen

#Sat2day

[Tai Shi]

Hi 6yx,

Yes, I too have found some company not really interested in my input, and therefore, I too have sought solitude. Today I am able to be with those I care to be with, so my life is better. Sangha is one of the three jewels: Buddha, Dharma, Sangha. I have found a place here, and several other places fit my social needs: my AA group, my online Unitarian Universalist church, and family. Each fits different needs and overlap in excellent ways for me. Still, since I am retired, I find comfort in solitude and would always seek needs to be alone when I need to be alone.

Tai Shi
std
Gassho

[Risho]

Hi,

I would say a Sangha is where you go to hang out and don't get thrown out or banned for being weird.

Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

Hahaha thank goodness; if being normal were required I'd have been banned from here years ago lol

Gassho

Risho
-sattoday