Results 1 to 22 of 22

Thread: SIT-A-LONG with Jundo: Why Zen Folks FAIL!! (6) - Trusting the Teacher

  1. #1

    SIT-A-LONG with Jundo: Why Zen Folks FAIL!! (6) - Trusting the Teacher



    We continue with Why Zen Students Fail!


    One reason is because they trust the Zen Teachers too much sometimes.


    Another reason is because they trust their Teacher not enough sometimes.


    Sometimes they are blind to a Teacher's flaws, victims of excess devotion, faith and obedience (yes, it sometimes happens, as described HERE)


    Sometimes students expect a Zen Teacher to be flawless, saintly and superhuman, and run away at the first sign of humanity.


    Students should realize that the teachers are really just mentors, "friends on the way", folks who have been around the block, guides who have walked the path and can help point out the generally good directions and the dangers and quicksand. Learn from the voice of experience and the wise advice, but in the end, each student must do their own walking.



    In all cases, the student should learn to see through the Teacher to the Teaching, seeing this messy world and the Pure Land as One.



    THE DOWNLOADABLE AUDIO PODCAST VERSION IS HERE:

    Click for Podcast or Audio Download


    Last edited by Sekishi; 09-02-2015 at 03:06 AM. Reason: Added podcast link.
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  2. #2
    Mp
    Guest
    Thank you Jundo ... your uke has got it and trying to roll well. =)

    Gassho
    Shingen

    #sat and rolled today

  3. #3
    Member Getchi's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Between Sea and Sky, Australia.
    THankyou Jundo,

    Geoff,
    SatToday.
    Nothing to do? Why not Sit?

  4. #4
    This was a nice talk, thank you.

    Gassho,
    Ken
    SatToday
    The strength and beneficence of the soft and yielding.
    Water achieves clarity through stillness.

  5. #5
    Maybe you aren't "flawless, saintly and superhuman," but your teachings are interesting, pertinent, and delivered in a manner that my brain can (mostly) process and retain. Many thanks!

    Gassho,
    Sierra
    SatToday

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Sierra529 View Post
    Maybe you aren't "flawless, saintly and superhuman," ...
    I try to convince my wife and kids that I am, but they don't believe it either.

    Gassho, J

    SatToday

    PS - By the way, if anyone is extra interested in this topic of flawlessly-flawed teachers, something else I once flawlessly spoke ...

    In my view, "master" is someone with some "mastery" in an art or tradition to pass on and pass down ... from carpentry to medicine to martial arts to Zen Buddhary. It need not mean the "master" is perfect, one can be a "master carpenter", yet not every corner will always be smooth; a "master surgeon" cannot cure every patient, and even the most gifted lifesaver of thousands may sometimes make a bad cut or deadly error. However, one should be pretty darn skilled in applying the art in life, and much more skilled and competent than those without the skills required. As in mastery in the martial arts, there is no technique for never being hit or never losing one's footing ... let alone for winning every battle ... there is no training offered on how to never fall, but rather, endless training on how to fall well. Show me the man or woman who encounters life's obstacles, sunny and rainy days, loops and losses, ups and downs ... all the mess and mayhem of Samsara ... who may be sometimes knocked sideways or down ... but who demonstrates how to be hit well and recover one's footing ... and I will show you a great Zen teacher.

    One of the unfortunate aspects of religion is the tendency to put the leader or "guru" on a pedestal as being perfect, beyond any and all human failing ... always wise, never saying the wrong thing, always balanced and in control. The Lineage legends and Sutra story books tend to dip in gold and place on pedestals all our long dead ancestors, scrubbing them of every human failing. I think that unfortunate. Plenty of wannabe cult leaders are ready to play to such an image even now ... and plenty of "need a daddy to tell me what to do" students are ever willing to buy into it. That is a shame.

    In fact, there are really no "Zen Teachers" ... for Zen cannot be taught. The "Teachers" are more like experienced "Dharma Friends" offering tips and coaching to help the seeker do all the heavy lifting ... and sitting ... on their own.
    and a longer essay, superhuman in its expression, on the topic ...

    http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showt...l=1#post107245
    Last edited by Jundo; 08-31-2015 at 08:31 AM.
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  7. #7
    Thank you, Jundo.

    Good, that you're no superhuman, I don't trust those at all.

    Gassho,
    Ralf sattoday.

    義道 冴庭 / Gidō Kotei.
    Being a novice priest doesn't mean my writing about the Dharma is more substantial than yours. Actually, it might well be the other way round.

  8. #8
    Thank you Jundo this post was very informative and I am happy to know that you are claiming human status and not super human status - that's a tough place to be

    Gassho,
    Clarisse Sat2Day

  9. #9
    Jundo,

    Your words resonated very well for me and helped me put the past in perspective. Also, "not fall too badly"....I like that, it tells me that I have made some progress all these years and not to be too disappointed when I fall again.

    Gassho

    Randy
    sattoday

  10. #10
    Hello,

    Good lesson. Thank you.

    "To perfection . . . and beyond!!" *


    Gassho
    Myosha sat today

    * Inspiration: Buzz Lightyear - (Infinity is so limiting.^^)
    Last edited by Myosha; 08-31-2015 at 10:10 PM.
    "Recognize suffering, remove suffering." - Shakyamuni Buddha when asked, "Uhm . . .what?"

  11. #11
    Thank you Jundo.

    Gassho,

    Kyonin
    #SatToday
    Hondō Kyōnin
    奔道 協忍

  12. #12
    Thank you, Jundo

    Gassho
    Meishin
    sat today

  13. #13
    Thank you Jundo

    gassho,
    Daiyo
    Sat Today
    Gassho,Walter

  14. #14
    Member Hoseki's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    St. John's Newfoundland, Canada.
    Thank you, Jundo.

    Gassho
    Sat Today
    Adam

  15. #15
    Thank you for the teaching.

    Gassho,

    Simon

    Sat today

  16. #16


    nandi #satoday

  17. #17
    Yes I understand. Thanks for all your talks I find them refreshing and helpful.

    Gassho
    Ishin
    Sat today


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Grateful for your practice

  18. #18
    Great teaching. Thank you.

    Gassho,
    Sergey

    sat2day

  19. #19
    Joyo
    Guest
    Thank you, Jundo, much appreciated.

    Your post reminds me of a documentary I watched last night.....





    Gassho,
    Joyo
    sat today

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Joyo View Post
    Thank you, Jundo, much appreciated.

    Your post reminds me of a documentary I watched last night.....





    Gassho,
    Joyo
    sat today
    Yes, thank you Joyo. Anyone interested in "Eastern religions" of any kind should watch that film.

    Also this one, which is more serious and supposed to be based on Scientology founder L. Ron Hubbard ...

    http://www.newyorker.com/culture/ric...ie-week-master

    Gassho, J

    SatToday
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  21. #21
    Thank you Jundo

    Gassho
    Lisa
    sat today

  22. #22
    Thank you, Jundo.

    Gassho,
    Onkai
    SatToday

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •