Results 1 to 30 of 30

Thread: Is online Zen practice any less "real" or authentic?

  1. #1

    Is online Zen practice any less "real" or authentic?

    A talk by the San Francisco Zen Center, entitled "The Real Thing: Enlightenment and the Internet"

    Very interesting talk, even though we know the answer already

    http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/SanFr...39;connell.mp3

    (p.s. my apologies if this was posted before)

    -satToday
    Thanks,
    Kaishin (開心, Open Heart)
    Please take this layman's words with a grain of salt.

  2. #2
    Thank you Matt, I too have heard this one, well, I watched it ... so here is a version if you want to watch. =)

    http://livestream.com/SFZC/events/4047726

    Gassho
    Shingen

    #sattoday

  3. #3
    Here is my take based on nearly 10 years of this experiment. Older members have heard it before ...

    The world is virtual, this sangha is real
    http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showt...sangha-is-real

    Gassho, J

    SatToday
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  4. #4
    I took Refuge in 1989 and have practiced with different brick and mortar communities in two traditions over the years. In these communities contact with the teacher and other sangha members was once or twice a week, except for during a period of yearly retreat. In this sangha my contact is daily, sometimes throughout the day. Morning sitting is with sangha mates, sewing practice is with sangha mates. This is the most engaged community, most intimate always-with-you community I have known. Furthermore there is online-offline flow through. In my region there are sangha members offline who I can practice with. We can engage the local community together. Regional brick and mortar retreats can be organized along with live-media online retreats and regular sittings. The potential for good, for so many, has never been better.

    Gassho

    Daizan

    sat today

  5. #5
    Thank you for this I will listen to it as soon as I can. Although to me our sangha is more real than most of reality. So there is that

    Gassho
    James
    SatToday


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  6. #6
    Member Getchi's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Between Sea and Sky, Australia.
    I respect the SFZC, and will listen to the link ASAP.

    My first reaction is what can be less then reality?
    Like Daizen above, I have been a very long time "buddhist" and invloved with more then one IRL sangha. I am impressed with the dedication shown by our Teachers and leaders, the humility and companionship of fellow sangha members.

    I came here wanting to obtain a proper Zen buddhist "education", and have learned more in these last months here then I think i would have in other places.

    Truly grateful for the potential in this Age.

    Gassho,
    Geoff.
    SatToday.
    Nothing to do? Why not Sit?

  7. #7
    As a kid doing amateur radio, I would thrill at occasionally hearing a bit of Morse code from Europe or somewhere else across the ocean. Now I can carry this wonderful sangha and all of you wonderful people in my pocket on a thing called a smartphone. And find a connection that I can't make here in my own rural town, where Buddhists are rare as hens' teeth! It doesn't get more real than that.
    Gassho,
    Sierra
    SatToday

  8. #8
    Zesho (Susan O'Connell) seems to come to the same conclusion as us it would appear. I would hope that we, who have some experiential knowledge of the matter, knew that is was 'The Real Thing' all along... Daizan's note above says it all, really...

    Gassho,
    Anshu

    -sat today-

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Anshu Bryson View Post
    Zesho (Susan O'Connell) seems to come to the same conclusion as us it would appear. I would hope that we, who have some experiential knowledge of the matter, knew that is was 'The Real Thing' all along... Daizan's note above says it all, really...

    Gassho,
    Anshu

    -sat today-
    I agree with you there Anshu ... she too seemed to have an open heart and mind on it. =)

    Gassho
    Shingen

    #sattoday

  10. #10
    Very grateful to Treeleaf...

    Gassho
    Sat today
    求道芸化 Kyūdō Geika
    I am just a priest-in-training, please do not take anything I say as a teaching.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Daizan View Post
    I . . . have practiced with different brick and mortar communities in two traditions over the years. In these communities contact with the teacher and other sangha members was once or twice a week, except for during a period of yearly retreat. In this sangha my contact is daily, sometimes throughout the day. Morning sitting is with sangha mates, sewing practice is with sangha mates. This is the most engaged community, most intimate always-with-you community I have known. Furthermore there is online-offline flow through. In my region there are sangha members offline who I can practice with. We can engage the local community together. Regional brick and mortar retreats can be organized along with live-media online retreats and regular sittings. The potential for good, for so many, has never been better.

    Gassho

    Daizan

    HEAR! HEAR!


    Gassho
    Myosha sat today
    "Recognize suffering, remove suffering." - Shakyamuni Buddha when asked, "Uhm . . .what?"

  12. #12
    Hi.

    Parafrasing Dogen "When you look at Painted ricecakes, one satisfies the hunger as good as another", Or parafrasing another guy "It's all good practice, it only depends on what you do with it".

    Thank you for your practice.

    Mtfbwy
    Fugen

    #Sat2day

  13. #13
    This topic somehow reminded me of a quote by Chuang Tzu:

    “Once upon a time, I dreamt I was a butterfly, fluttering hither and thither, to all intents and purposes a butterfly. I was conscious only of my happiness as a butterfly, unaware that I was myself. Soon I awaked, and there I was, veritably myself again. Now I do not know whether I was then a man dreaming I was a butterfly, or whether I am now a butterfly, dreaming I am a man.”

    Gassho
    Victor

  14. #14

    Is online Zen practice any less "real" or authentic?

    Chuang Tzu doesn't drop around here much - it's nice to see him, and you.

    Thank you

    Deep bows
    Yugen


    sat2day

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Victor Chu View Post
    This topic somehow reminded me of a quote by Chuang Tzu:

    “Once upon a time, I dreamt I was a butterfly, fluttering hither and thither, to all intents and purposes a butterfly. I was conscious only of my happiness as a butterfly, unaware that I was myself. Soon I awaked, and there I was, veritably myself again. Now I do not know whether I was then a man dreaming I was a butterfly, or whether I am now a butterfly, dreaming I am a man.”
    Beautiful. Thanks.

    Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

  16. #16
    I think a valid sitting/buddhist practice requires little more then a line of study and some interaction for me so this place works fine. Even if sometimes confusing, the basics of how buddhism describes reality and whhyyyy it is logical to follow a 'bodhisattva' mindset due to centerless interdependence is logically obvious.

    I feel that at the end of the day, no one polices me, I choose out of my own volition to hone myself and ensure 'skillful' conduct. I feel a lot of treeleaf is in the 'good horse that doesn't need the whip' category overall which might or might not be a reason why online works for some and others not, not struggling to find the motivation to care and listen and practice.

    Here or when I do get to sit with a 'irl' sangha, I think the principle function of a sangha does translate, it is your own practice ultimately and you make it work.

    Few musings..

    SatToday

    Metta,
    Greg

    Sent from my ALCATEL ONETOUCH P310A using Tapatalk
    “A fine line separates the weary recluse from the fearful hermit. Finer still is the line between hermit and bitter misanthrope.” - Dean Koontz

  17. #17
    I once met Jundo in the flesh. It was a fun and pleasant experience. Did it help my practice? Perhaps, but only in the sense that his dedication to this sangha sets a good example, and I appreciated him making the effort. As far as the real nuts and bolts of understanding of what I am doing, absolutely not. I would also echo what other's hear have said. I think we are more interactive and I have learned more here than a real sangha which might meet only once a week. That simply isn't possible in my life right now. This is as real as it gets. There aren't enough hours in the day for me to keep track of what goes on here in a day. The opportunities to learn and grow here in Zen are simply wonderful. Besides, anyone who can deal with the problem/ no problem of Google +? You KNOW they are dedicated.

    Gassho
    Ishin
    Sat Today

  18. #18
    Hi !
    Even if I don't post very often (I read you guys very often thought), this place is the one I always come back to when I have doubts about my practice or when I lack motivation. I read you guys and it motivates me more ! This is the sangha that has help me the most ! In the end, isn't that it what really matters ?

    Gassho to all of you,

    Patrick.
    Patrick__________________________
    Le mieux est l'ennemi du bien. -Voltaire
    The better is the enemy of the good. -Voltaire

  19. #19
    Interesting... I am so happy that I found Treeleaf Zendo online and am looking forward to learning and growing on my path of Buddhism. I'm new and only had a short course on practicing meditation in 2002 but I need to tell you all that I've learned so much by reading these threads and watching the beginner videos since I joined. I purchased Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind by Shunryu Suzuki (my first book about zen) before joining and can't wait to read and discuss it at some point.

    I've taken online classes before and as a result have made a few life long friends from across the U.S. A virtual platform is as good as it's content and so far I've seen videos, recommendations, and content that can be verified or challenged. This is real and amazing - I am so humbled.

    There is no other way to reach the world in real time then the Internet. This is the right place. From what I've seen so far Treeleaf is a warm and friendly sangha conducive to learning and practicing. Keep doing what you're doing!

    Looking forward to practicing with each of you.

    Gassho,
    Clarisse Sat2Day



    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by CK732 View Post
    There is no other way to reach the world in real time then the Internet. This is the right place. From what I've seen so far Treeleaf is a warm and friendly sangha conducive to learning and practicing. Keep doing what you're doing!
    Hi Clarisse.

    Welcome to Treeleaf. Yes, technology allows us to connect in many new and great ways. If it wasn't for it, I would have never get even close to being a priest.

    This sangha is home and is family.

    I'm glad you're here

    Gassho,

    Kyonin
    #SatToday
    Hondō Kyōnin
    奔道 協忍

  21. #21
    In my limited view....

    With today's technology, we have much that is virtual. You can shop online, you can get an education online, you can practice a number of religions online...just about anything that you can do in the "real" world, you can do virtually. I believe that online Zen is just as true as non-online Zen, and that in many cases, online Zen might be "more" real than the traditional Zen. Online, you can sit with your sangha at any time, and with members across the globe. People are always there to have discussions with and share ideas with, and connect with. You can hear talks at any time and read sutras, etc. at any time. The internet cannot do zazen for you, so you still have the same responsibilities as in the "real" world: Jundo can show you the door, but it is up to you to walk through it....or not.

    I might also argue that the internet is extremely Zen in its very nature. After all, it is there but not there, and definitely prompts all kinds of questions about reality.

    Thank you to Jundo and all of my sangha mates (my new family) for being here (both virtually and not!).

    Gassho--

    JimH
    Sat today!

  22. #22
    Hi,

    I think Dogen said something to the effect that painted rice cakes were just as tasty as non painted rice cakes.

    Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

  23. #23
    Real, just as long as it's not limited to just online.

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Shingen View Post
    Thank you Matt, I too have heard this one, well, I watched it ... so here is a version if you want to watch. =)

    http://livestream.com/SFZC/events/4047726

    Gassho
    Shingen

    #sattoday
    Thanks Matt and Shingen - I really enjoyed this talk - had not watched Susan O'Connel before = going to see if she has some more
    presentations.

    But going with the impetus of what she's saying I do hope at some time in the future SZBA will not insist on 'physical' face to face ordination between Jundo and future Unsui who would like to be accepted as associate members. If they continue with that line of thought it seems to go against the grain of accepting that online teaching/training etc is real and authentic. Step by step I guess.

    At 30mins in there is the mention of how we 'hold' new ideas and that by doing this things gradually open out and change. There does seem to be a movement towards seriously considering what Jundo has been saying / and putting into practice here for a decade now - I just hope he is given full credit for blazing a trail.



    Willow

    sat today
    Last edited by Jinyo; 08-28-2015 at 11:26 AM.

  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Jishin View Post
    Hi,

    I think Dogen said something to the effect that painted rice cakes were just as tasty as non painted rice cakes.

    Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_
    You didn't listen to the talk, did you? :P
    Thanks,
    Kaishin (開心, Open Heart)
    Please take this layman's words with a grain of salt.

  26. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaishin View Post
    A talk by the San Francisco Zen Center, entitled "The Real Thing: Enlightenment and the Internet"

    Very interesting talk, even though we know the answer already

    http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/SanFr...39;connell.mp3

    -satToday
    Hello,

    Thank you for the link.

    Something worthwhile about the worthless.

    Precepts are joyful.


    Gassho
    Myosha sat today
    Last edited by Myosha; 08-28-2015 at 06:16 PM.
    "Recognize suffering, remove suffering." - Shakyamuni Buddha when asked, "Uhm . . .what?"

  27. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaishin View Post
    You didn't listen to the talk, did you? :P
    No. I listened to it now. Also forgot Fugen's comment above.

    Great minds think alike.

    Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

  28. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Jishin View Post
    No. I listened to it now. Also forgot Fugen's comment above.

    Great minds think alike.

    Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_
    Just teasing, of course

    -satToday
    Thanks,
    Kaishin (開心, Open Heart)
    Please take this layman's words with a grain of salt.

  29. #29

  30. #30
    Either way there's a cushion to sit on.

    Gassho and thank you all for this Sangha. Without it I wouldn't have contact with other practitioners.

    Entai
    #WillSitTonight

    泰 Entai (Bill)
    "this is not a dress rehearsal"

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •