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Thread: SIT-A-LONG with Jundo: Why Zen Folks FAIL!! (5) - Watching The Clock Rackin Up Points

  1. #1

    SIT-A-LONG with Jundo: Why Zen Folks FAIL!! (5) - Watching The Clock Rackin Up Points

    So many Zen students think that the longer they sit the better. They believe 10 years surpasses 10 months or 10 days, which must be better than 10 hours, which is better than 10 minutes or seconds. They treat Zazen like a taxi meter or points to rack up, the more they sit the closer they are to the goal. They equate more and more sitting with going deeper and deeper, or becoming more and more peaceful, or more and more "Buddha-like", or more and more "enlightened".

    However, Zazen only truly hits the mark when all measure of time and score, goals and attainment are dropped away. Only then does a moment of sitting contain all time, only then does one realize the destination ever present. Zazen is thus very unlike many forms of meditation (not to mention very unlike our usual clock watching, tally counting, comparing and measuring, goal oriented attitude toward the rest of our busy lives) in which deeper and deeper attainments, and greater and greater achievements, add up with time. In Zazen, one attains the deepest attainment and the greatest achievement, namely, the timeless which is right in each tick of the clock, the goal ever reached again and again in each passing mile on the road across town. But one only realizes so when one sits as the still and round face of the clock which holds all time as the hands make their circles ...

    The taxi meter is turned off, yet the taxi proceeds forward on the ride of Buddhist Practice. Only now, however, one realizes that the whole journey is the constant total arrival ... from the door's closing, down every twist and turn, to whatever destinations await. Know that, truly in Zazen, each instant contains all the time in the world and is timeless. One second of sitting has no other time, and contains all time and no time, when one sits while dropping all goals and measures. Truly.

    Please stop watching the score, the amounts, the distances, the measures of passing time ... and then one is in a Buddha taxi driving across Buddhatown, all Buddha all the way from uptown to down.

    It is a very different attitude toward sitting and all of life from our usual "time is slipping away, the goal is ever distant" way of being.


    But don't get me wrong, don't misunderstand: (I am not encouraging you just to sit for half a minute or once a year, as if that is enough. Daily sitting is required).

    Sitting for 10 months -is- usually better than sitting for 10 days ... but only if the sitting of 10 months is now beyond watching the clock and the scoreboard. The fellow who has been practicing for 10 years -is- likely to be better at attaining "timeless non-attainment" than the newcomer of 10 minutes. Thus, there is great import to sometimes sitting long and hard all to realize that this never was a matter of time at all. Enlightenment is truly timeless amid passing time ... it is the still center of the sweeping second hand ... and one does not realize such truth by counting the seconds and minutes. Nonethless, it usually take many months and years to truly penetrate such "Timeless Truths". Thus, we sit every day, dedicated and sincere in sitting, like clockwork!

    Funny how that works.

    So, stop thinking of Zazen as a matter of quantity, time, depth of concentration and anything else that can be measured. Truly, Zazen is just the Treasure Beyond Measure.

    THE DOWNLOADABLE AUDIO PODCAST VERSION IS HERE:

    Click for Podcast or Audio Download


    Last edited by Jundo; 05-20-2020 at 01:34 AM. Reason: Added podcast link.
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  2. #2
    As always, thank you Jundo for your clear and concise teachings. Much gratitude. =)

    Gassho
    Shingen

    #sattoday
    RINDO SHINGEN
    倫道 真現

  3. #3
    Thank you, Jundo. So refreshing.

    Gassho
    Meishin
    sat today

  4. #4
    Thank you. This has coincided well with a Michael Stone talk on money that I watched right before.

    Gassho, sat today
    求道芸化 Kyudo Geika
    I am just a priest-in-training, please do not take anything I say as a teaching.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Cumminjd View Post
    Thank you for this Jundo. Will there be a link to a downloadable podcast. I really enjoy just listening to teachings over and over.

    Gassho
    James
    SatToday
    Oh, thanks for reminding me. Yes, I will add the link when ready.

    Gassho, J

    SatToday
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  6. #6
    Thank you very much.
    Indeed, funny, how that time thing works.
    Sitting somewhat longer, than I am used to, usually feels shorter for me.
    Think this is, because thoughts on "timer should be ringing really soon now" drop, if I "know" it will be longer than normal and there is no "ringing" near.
    Sitting without a timer today, well, feels... don't know... different.

    Gassho,
    Ralf sattoday.

  7. #7
    Thank you Jundo.

    Gassho,

    Brooks sat today.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Ralf View Post
    Sitting without a timer today, well, feels... don't know... different.

    Gassho,
    Ralf sattoday.
    Hi Ralf,

    The point I am making is not about physically sitting without checking the actual clock (although good to do that sometimes). It is about sitting beyond measure.

    I still use a clock (in the old days, they used to sit for the length of a burning stick of incense, before modern watches). A clock is useful.

    But when the clock says begin ... sit beyond time. When the clock says to ring the ending bell ... sit beyond time. All thru, as the second hand goes round ... sit beyond time.

    It is not a matter of clock or no clock.

    Gassho, J
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  9. #9
    Hi Jundo,

    Yes, we chase our own tails when it comes to time. We invented a way of measure the pass of the sequence of instants, but failed to realize Time is a bigger concept that ties universes in just a moment.

    Thank you for this.

    Gassho,

    Kyonin
    #SatToday
    Hondō Kyōnin
    奔道 協忍

  10. #10
    Thank you, Jundo.

    Yes, I got that. But personally, I feel it more easy to sit beyond time, if my thoughts do not remind me on "it will ring really soon".
    If there will be no ringing, thoughts about how long I sit/sat do not pop up during sitting.

    Gassho,
    Ralf sattoday.
    古庭 KoTei / Ralf

  11. #11
    Treeleaf Unsui Shugen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Redding California USA
    Gassho,

    Shugen

    #sattoday
    Meido Shugen
    明道 修眼

  12. #12
    Thank you Jundo.
    Gassho
    Theophan
    Sat Today

  13. #13
    Thanks Jundo

    Gassho,

    Jiken

  14. #14
    Thank you Jundo.

    It seems as though no matter how long you've been sitting, if you're sitting right you're sitting right. If you're not you're not.

    Gassho

    Sat Today

  15. #15
    Thank you Jundo.

    Gassho,

    Risho
    -sattoday

  16. #16
    Member Getchi's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Between Sea and Sky, Australia.
    I have nothing to add but my gratitude.

    Gassho,
    Geoff.
    SatToday
    Nothing to do? Why not Sit?

  17. #17
    Thank you Jundo

    Gassho
    Lisa
    sat today

  18. #18
    Note, however, that if you sit beyond time in the back of a cab, be sure to get out upon arrival or you'll rack up quite a fare.

    -Dan
    Sat today
    Last edited by delphizealot; 09-18-2015 at 12:11 AM.

  19. #19
    Thanks

    Jen

  20. #20
    Thank you, Jundo

    Gassho,
    Onkai
    SatToday

  21. #21
    Thanks for reposting this ... just before my not long not short "long" sit today.

    Gassho, J
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  22. #22
    Such a great teaching jundo, thank you for this clarity!

    Gassho
    Ben


    Stlah

  23. #23


    Thank you, Jundo.

    Gassho
    Christian
    Sat/Lah
    Teiro

  24. #24
    I am going to bump this myself, as it came up somewhere else today. Really, one of the most important lessons to take home ...

    Gassho, J

    STLah
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  25. #25
    Every single step is the destination.

    Gassho,

    Joshua
    SatToday/LaH

    Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

  26. #26
    Member RobD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2020
    Location
    Massachusetts, United States
    "the still center of the sweeping second hand"

    Jundo, you are a master of metaphor! I saw your related post on FB earlier, and it was great to revisit this again here tonight.

    Thank you!

    Gassho,
    Rob

    SatToday

  27. #27
    Thank you, Jundo. This is great.

    Gassho,

    Luigi
    ST
    "Zazen is good for nothing."
    Kōdō Sawaki (1880-1965)

  28. #28
    Thank you for bumping this thread. I periodically fall into this trap.


    Tairin
    Sat today and lah

  29. #29
    Thanks for bumping this Master Jundo (experimenting with the title lol). Sometimes <cough> my sitting is just to fill in a mental checkbox so I can say that I put in my 15 minutes or whatever. It's perfunctory, not genuine. But I *am* working every day on greater sincerity and quality, on dropping the mental narrative and remaining in neutral with open awareness and letting thoughts flow through that state of merely sitting. It isn't easy though.

    Gassho
    Kevin
    ST for 15 minutes. Hopefully more tomorrow.

  30. #30
    Thank you Jundo

    Gassho, Chris satlah
    Last edited by ChrisKiwi; 05-22-2020 at 02:12 AM.

  31. #31
    Thank you Jundo. Great teaching.



    Ghasso
    Bobby
    SatTodayLAH


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    "When you do something, you should burn yourself completely, like a good bonfire, leaving no trace of yourself."
    Shunryu Suzuki

  32. #32
    Thanks for bumping this, Jundo.
    This is actually why I took a break some years back.
    I was sitting just to keep up the statistics on my Insight Timer application.
    It felt like the statics were more important than the sitting.
    The break helped me realize the trap and I returned to my practice without the app.

    After some years I've started to use the app again, but I no longer track the statistics.

    Gassho,
    steve

  33. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by adahee View Post
    Thanks for bumping this, Jundo.
    This is actually why I took a break some years back.
    I was sitting just to keep up the statistics on my Insight Timer application.
    It felt like the statics were more important than the sitting.
    The break helped me realize the trap and I returned to my practice without the app.

    After some years I've started to use the app again, but I no longer track the statistics.

    Gassho,
    steve
    Yea insight timer can be a trap that way, especially for those of us with perfectionist tendencies I still have to resist the impulse to log a session I did off the app just to keep a streak going or rack up a star

    Gassho,
    Jakuden


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    清 道 寂田
    SEIDO JAKUDEN
    I am a novice priest. Any resemblance my posts may have to actual teachings about the Dharma, living or dead, is purely coincidental (and just my attempt to be helpful).

  34. #34
    and there it is. Many thanks for this Jundo.

    Gassho,

    Peter
    stlah

  35. #35
    Thank you, Jundo.

    Gassho
    Teiro

    Sat
    Teiro

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