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Thread: Have you ever wondered if Buddha got it wrong?

  1. #1

    Have you ever wondered if Buddha got it wrong?

    I've been trying and not succeeding in trying to keep myself from being overwhelmed by the worlds negativity. Starting with the shootings in South Carolina, I'm amazed (though I shouldn't be) that such a level of racism still exists. I read online last night about the continued persecution of Gypsies. The attitudes and legal actions of governments against the Roma people is very 1930's Germany-esque.... a fact that is terrifying to me. And now today, I read an article about a group of Girl Scouts in Maryland who went to the town hall to complain about conditions of a local animal shelter and were cussed out and called racial slurs by grown adults. Grown adults cussing at little girls. I read all these things and then think about how the Buddha said humans are superior to animals, and that a human existence is necessary to contemplate and achieve nirvana. I feel like thats a pretty arrogant statement to make. I look at my dog, and she innately practices mindfulness and is always living in the moment. She doesn't have stupid human thoughts and reasoning to keep her from being in the now. She also practices metta to everyone she meets. She mettas the heck out of people! She is a little metta generating machine. I feel like dogs and most animals are better buddhists than humans. A hawk competes with a crow for resources - not because the crows feathers are black. And it is starting to look like humans might have real competition in the intelligence department when it comes to Cetaceans - whales and dolphins. Isn't it pretty belittling to say we're superior to amazingly intelligent animals like dolphins just because we can can use tools? The dolphin doesn't need a tool. The dolphin evolved in such a way it doesn't need any. So who is the superior one? We shouldn't forget that from a biological point of view, humans ARE animals. We are great big hairless apes. Shouldn't there only be five realms of rebirth then? I mean, if you combine humans and animals into the same category, then being reborn as an animal shouldn't be seen as a downgrade. Yes they do suffer a lot. But it seems like most of the suffering an animal goes through is more done by the hands of a human than other animals. Another animal might kill the young, weak, and old of a group for food. A human will wipe out an entire species for personal convenience.

    What do you guys think?

  2. #2
    Hello,

    Thoughts are fun. Just sit.


    Gassho
    Myosha sat today
    Last edited by Myosha; 06-21-2015 at 12:40 AM.
    "Recognize suffering, remove suffering." - Shakyamuni Buddha when asked, "Uhm . . .what?"

  3. #3
    Thank you. The simplicity and wisdom made me smile

  4. #4
    There are many lovely things still about people. With every metta chant I am hoping, perhaps praying, for more compassion from and for all.

    Take care, shiloh.

    Gassho, sat today
    求道芸化 Kyūdō Geika
    I am just a priest-in-training, please do not take anything I say as a teaching.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Amelia View Post
    There are many lovely things still about people. With every metta chant I am hoping, perhaps praying, for more compassion from and for all.

    Take care, shiloh.

    Gassho, sat today
    I will pray with you.

    Gassho

  6. #6
    Hi Shiloh (would you please sign a name and post a human face picture? Thank you).

    I feel the same way about our cat sometimes (she is a sweety), and about the greed, anger and divisive thinking which drive people sometimes. Our cat certainly seems to live "in the moment" more than most people I know, letting her emotions come and go. She is a sweety, yet the cat (she only came to us 2 weeks ago) seems to have a small case of PTSD (yes, cats can have that too, and she jumps and hides under the bed, and can be very clingy). She is a refugee from Fukushima, rescued near the nuclear reactors and abandoned by her owners when the people left. My theory is that when her owners fled (animals could not be taken to the shelters) it messed her up a little.

    But I recognize that cats are primarily driven by hunger, violence and the desire to kill (just ask the birds in our garden about our last cat!), fears, finicky likes and dislikes, territorialism (she hisses at the alley cats in our garden). In some ways, they are more naturally "Zen" than people (I doubt she worries much about her retirements plan or the meaning of life, feels a failure as a cat compared to others, or worries about her "career"). Yet, her animal behavior also represent the aspects of our animal nature that Buddhism is designed to free us from! The ugliness of humans you describe is, perhaps, because we are too much like our dogs and cats!

    But, unlike the animals, human beings have a real chance to transcend and be better than our worst animal natures ... even if it is a hard battle sometimes.

    I hope the following makes you laugh. I made it for April Fools a few years ago.

    To mark the start of April, I thought I would answer some questions from the mail bag. One that I am asked about a lot is whether our family pets might benefit from practicing Buddhism and Zazen.

    ABSOLUTELY! They're sentient beings, too. Only, with paws.

    Kitties are nothing but cuddly fur balls of delusions and attachments. We must help our dogs find out for themselves whether they have Buddha-Nature or not. Even our hamsters and birdies can be freed from mental cages.

    So, get a little Dogen into your doggie, and tell him to "SIT!"

    Gassho, Jundo

    SatToday (cat in lap)
    Last edited by Jundo; 06-21-2015 at 02:34 AM.
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  7. #7
    Thank you Jundo that just made me so happy! I am a veterinarian--I find animals so "grounding" and easy to focus on. And what a great kitty!!

    As perfect and pure as they are, animals have individual variations in their personality and behavior that you could classify as self-serving, altruistic, fearful, aggressive, excited, friendly, motivated, energetic, mellow, lazy etc.etc. Some of these variations are environmentally created, but many of them are hard-wired in genetically. And there have been instances in nature where one animal species did wipe out or supplant another, some long before humans existed.

    Obviously our big brains gave us an evolutionary advantage that allowed us to dominate the planet, but they also give us this insanity of thinking, thinking all the time about so much more than we need to live our life every day. Now maybe quieting our collective monkey minds is the key to our survival as a species? If not, maybe it's ok if some creature from the deepest of the deep sea will evolve and supplant us someday?

    Gassho,
    Sierra
    SatToday

  8. #8
    Thank you for that! That video cheered me up. Tikki is a wonderful sitter and he seems to love that bell!
    Gassho,
    Shannon

  9. #9
    Kyotai
    Guest
    Hi Shiloh

    The world is sometimes full of horror and beauty. Im sitting here watching the rain come down...its lovely.

    We sit amongst both.

    Gassho, Kyotai
    Sat today

  10. #10
    Member Getchi's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Between Sea and Sky, Australia.
    Hi Shiloh,
    Hang in there.

    Myosha great advice!

    Gassho,
    Geoff.
    SatToday.
    Nothing to do? Why not Sit?

  11. #11
    VERY nice! Thank you.

    _/\_

    L.

    sat2day

  12. #12
    Hi Shiloh.

    Here is my favorite old time Buddhist scripture. Always found it very moving for some reason. It is what the Buddha "got".



    The Blessed One was once living at Kosambi in a wood of simsapa trees. He picked up a few leaves in his hand, and he asked the bhikkhus, ‘How do you conceive this, bhikkhus, which is more, the few leaves that I have picked up in my hand or those on the trees in the wood?

    ‘The leaves that the Blessed One has picked up in his hand are few, Lord; those in the wood are far more.’

    ‘So too, bhikkhus, the things that I have known by direct knowledge are more; the things that I have told you are only a few. Why have I not told them? Because they bring no benefit, no advancement in the Holy Life, and because they do not lead to dispassion, to fading, to ceasing, to stilling, to direct knowledge, to enlightenment, to Nibbana. That is why I have not told them. And what have I told you? This is suffering; this is the origin of suffering; this is the cessation of suffering; this is the way leading to the cessation of suffering. That is what I have told you. Why have I told it? Because it brings benefit, and advancement in the Holy Life, and because it leads to dispassion, to fading, to ceasing, to stilling, to direct knowledge, to enlightenment, to Nibbana. So bhikkhus, let your task be this: This is suffering; this is the origin of suffering; this is the cessation of suffering; this is the way leading to the cessation of suffering.’

    .
    Gassho
    Daizan

    sat today

  13. #13
    Thank you, Daizan. I very much enjoyed that!
    Gassho,
    Shannon

  14. #14
    All the evil and bad things humans do is because of anger, greed and delusion. In showing a way out of that the Buddha got it right. But even more important is that each of us has to practice to get it right, here and now.

    SAT today
    _/_
    Rich
    MUHYO
    無 (MU, Emptiness) and 氷 (HYO, Ice) ... Emptiness Ice ...

    https://instagram.com/notmovingmind

  15. #15
    My dog's a real metta machine. She's so sweet and grateful to everyone. I've been diligently training her to be that way since she was 8 weeks old. Chihuahua's are the most euthanized breed of dog in America because if they don't learn to not be afraid of certain things they will forever be afraid of everything and become vicious demons that attack everything.

    On a side note, I've called Charleston SC home for the past 8 years. I remember one of the victims of the shooting, Cynthia Hurd, from the downtown library. She gave me my library card when I moved there. This one really hit close to home literally. Charleston has a deep and brutal shared cultural history that has a long memory. It's a city that is always fighting with it's past. Fighting to preserve and fighting to make sense of it. The city is a layers of koans. Right now the city is wrestling with a very public koan that cuts pretty deep into the fabric of all of America. As much as the south is demonized as a hub of racial hatred, it is important for the rest of America (and the world) to not put so much weight into that sentiment so as to ignore the very real racial and social problems in one's own backyard. Moving to the south from NY was the most eye opening confusion I've ever experienced and I will be wading through that illuminated ignorance for the rest of my life. And I really hope they take the stupid stars and bars down from the state building.

    Gassho

    Sat Today

  16. #16
    Yea, remove that flag from public property. There are many private places where they can honor their ancestors. In some ways for 150 years some have acted like they didn't lose the war. Who gets to fly their flag after defeat?

    I spent a lot of time in SC and never witnessed any racism or hatred so this was pretty shocking.

    SAT today
    _/_
    Rich
    MUHYO
    無 (MU, Emptiness) and 氷 (HYO, Ice) ... Emptiness Ice ...

    https://instagram.com/notmovingmind

  17. #17
    Hi shiloh,

    There is a lot of ugly things going on all the time. It has always have been like that since we humans began walking and developing greed. And also we can't forget we live in a connected world that hungers for terrible news to keep us coming for more. Media lives off from spreading ugliness!

    Then, you can't forget that there are amazing beautiful things in the universe. Just look around you. You are surrounded by miracles! You have eyes to see, knowledge to read these words, hands to manipulate a computer and work. And that's the key. Work to better all that surrounds you.

    Whenever ugliness begins to take control of the world around me, I sit to let thought go and accept things as they are. And then I work for my family, for my friends, for my community. I let go of my fears and disgust to focus on the needs of people and animals near to me.

    A couple of hours later I'm happy, knowing that there are millions like me working to push humanity forward. Those are the people that will never make it into the night's news.

    And that's way more powerful than any bad news out there.

    Gassho,

    Kyonin
    #SatToday
    Hondō Kyōnin
    奔道 協忍

  18. #18
    Joyo
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyonin View Post
    Hi shiloh,

    There is a lot of ugly things going on all the time. It has always have been like that since we humans began walking and developing greed. And also we can't forget we live in a connected world that hungers for terrible news to keep us coming for more. Media lives off from spreading ugliness!

    Then, you can't forget that there are amazing beautiful things in the universe. Just look around you. You are surrounded by miracles! You have eyes to see, knowledge to read these words, hands to manipulate a computer and work. And that's the key. Work to better all that surrounds you.

    Whenever ugliness begins to take control of the world around me, I sit to let thought go and accept things as they are. And then I work for my family, for my friends, for my community. I let go of my fears and disgust to focus on the needs of people and animals near to me.

    A couple of hours later I'm happy, knowing that there are millions like me working to push humanity forward. Those are the people that will never make it into the night's news.

    And that's way more powerful than any bad news out there.

    Gassho,

    Kyonin
    #SatToday
    Thank you for this teaching, Kyonin. A simple, yet very practical way to live, helping those around us, and not giving the bad news all our energy.

    Gassho,
    Joyo
    sat today

  19. #19
    Thanks to all of you who have posted here. It is heartening in dark times. Peace.

    randy

    sat tonight

  20. #20
    I wanted to thank you all for your wonderful responses and teachings. Having people like you close by gives me a glimmer of hope for the world <3
    Gassho,
    Shannon

  21. #21
    ...does a dog have Buddha nature?
    Gassho!
    護道 安海

    -Godo Ankai

    I'm still just starting to learn. I'm not a teacher. Please don't take anything I say too seriously. I already take myself too seriously!

  22. #22
    Hello,

    Every thing IS Buddha nature.

    (Except dogs.)

    j/k

    No, really.

    Not!

    Actually . . . MU!

    . . . or not.


    Gassho
    Myosha sat today
    "Recognize suffering, remove suffering." - Shakyamuni Buddha when asked, "Uhm . . .what?"

  23. #23
    Hi Shiloh. I often ask myself the same question and always end up thinking that humans have nothing that can be considered "superior" compared to less evolved animals. If anything, our bigger brains have inflated us with a bigger ego and have created bigger problems (e.g. crusades, countless wars, genocides, you name it). Size doesn't always matter, I guess...ah! From a statistical point of view it is extremely likely that other life-forms with a much bigger brain/intelligence than ours exist in distant planets. I wonder if a "superior" intelligence may produce a better or a worse society than the one we currently have. If the moon were populated with four-legged-juicy-chickens we (as humans) would have no problem invading their territory and wipe out their entire population for the sake of opening a new KFC-type of restaurant chain. However, is aliens came to "visit" us with similar intentions we would automatically label them as evil...why? Thinking to much...sitting to little

  24. #24
    It's interesting to me that the causes of negativity, violence, suffering, and anxiety all stem from the same core place: Our thoughts, and our attachments to them.

    For example, in living with panic and anxiety most of my life, I've come to find that it's not the panic that causes me the most suffering -- instead, it's the attachment to the thoughts that brings about the most pain. When I sit and let the thoughts come and go, the physical sensations come and go, the panic itself is over in minutes; however, were I to latch on, add fear to my fear, the episode could last hours.

    We are all subject to an almost endless sea of clouds in our sky. Through zazen, we learn to let go, become mindful of the thoughts, the split-second reactions, the illogical thinking patterns. Though we may not look as peaceful as a cat in a garden, through effort and diligence, we can change the world.

    Or not.

    Gassho,
    Jesse | SatToday

  25. #25
    Hello all,

    The question, “does a dog have Buddha nature? “is interesting
    If Buddha nature is defined as “awareness”, I think the answer is “yes”.
    On the other hand , animals are less likely to be as tyrannised by thinking as untrained minds are. In that respect they have a head start over humans who are. My cat seems to be far happier than my wife! You might be interested in this explanation of happiness and its relevance to Zen.
    1/ We have problems to solve and appetites to satisfy and the tool we use to do that is our intellect – (conscious mental activity - CMA). CMA is the collection accumulation recall and association of data and the direction of action. It is the entire panoply of actions accessible to our awareness.)

    2/ Consider a single appetite or problem isolated from all others. Once that appetite is satisfied or problem solved, we (ideally) abstain from further efforts to satisfy it - we abstain from further CMA regarding it. CMA has fulfilled it essential role.
    3/ Simultaneously, once an appetite is satisfied or a problem is solved we feel a degree of fulfilment, contentment and peace-of-mind – that kind of happiness (Bliss).
    4/ So: there is a direct relationship between the degree of happiness we feel and a reduction in the level of CMA we have employed in satisfying that appetite.
    5/ Extrapolating this last statement to its extreme case, it follows that we will experience perfect happiness when we abstain from all conscious mental activity.



    This is the psychology of the common human goal – peace-of-mind – happiness.
    It applies to all creatures with our sort of central nervous system – and that includes dogs. That is the understanding Zen uses when it advises us to let all our thoughts drift away in meditation. The untrained mind cannot stop thinking. Nor, in some reports, does it want to, preferring to administer itself an electric shock rather that abstain from CMA! It suffers from the tyranny of CMA – dukkha. Eventually Zazen gives us the opportunity to allow that torrent of random and habitual CMA that normally underpins every moment of our life to burn itself out, leaving behind an undercurrent of profound peace-of-mind. Dogs (and cats) who have a head start on us in that they haven’t got the intellectual equipment to permit such tyranny, may be able to access more profound bliss than the untrained human mind can.

    Colin


  26. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by chankin View Post
    Hello all,

    The question, “does a dog have Buddha nature?


    Colin

    No.

    Gassho, Jishin

    #SatToday

  27. #27
    The further one goes, the less one knows.
    Tao teh Ching
    _/_
    Rich
    MUHYO
    無 (MU, Emptiness) and 氷 (HYO, Ice) ... Emptiness Ice ...

    https://instagram.com/notmovingmind

  28. #28
    Culture overvalues signs and symbols. Learn to experience your world directly, not through representations.
    Source unknown

    SAT today
    _/_
    Rich
    MUHYO
    無 (MU, Emptiness) and 氷 (HYO, Ice) ... Emptiness Ice ...

    https://instagram.com/notmovingmind

  29. #29
    Yugen
    Guest

    Have you ever wondered if Buddha got it wrong?

    Direct apprehension without the intermediate step of logical thinking or discourse

    My brothers say it far better than I can

    Deep bows
    Yugen


    sat2day

  30. #30
    Mp
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Rich View Post
    Culture overvalues signs and symbols. Learn to experience your world directly, not through representations.
    Source unknown

    SAT today
    Wonderfully said Rich, thank you! =)

    Gassho
    Shingen

    #sattoday

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