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Thread: Grass Hut - 16 - "Don't Judge"

  1. #1

    Grass Hut - 16 - "Don't Judge"

    Hi,

    We are on Chapter 12, "Don't Judge" ... "The middling or lowly can't help wondering" ...

    We live in a world in which people are rated for ability, and we constantly judge each person we meet. Do you think that you can also learn to encounter people leaving aside all judgements, knowing each as precious? What would that be like?

    For the last several years, I volunteer for a couple of hours each week at a center here in Tsukuba for profoundly mentally challenged young adults, with Down's Syndrome, Autism and the like such that most do not have the power of verbal speech, and struggle even with simple tasks such as slipping on their own shoes. I will just say that being loving, warm, caring people has nothing to do with any verbal ability or mental skills, and most are so easy to be with even when things are tough. I always leave there feeling so good. I think many of them are among the nicest, most open, direct and honest people I know ... and I respect them more in that way than some folks I know with advanced degrees and fancy diplomas. This is one reason I resist to say that they are "slow" ... because, while they may be so by some functional measures for some skills ... in other ways I consider most of them so capable at being good "human" human beings.

    Here is their public blog, and you can get a sense just by looking at their faces (the full time staff there is pretty great too).

    http://polannohiroba.blog.fc2.com/page-2.html


    Gassho, J

    SatToday
    Last edited by Jundo; 06-21-2015 at 02:13 PM.
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  2. #2
    Hello,

    Thank you for the link.


    Gassho
    Myosha sat today
    "Recognize suffering, remove suffering." - Shakyamuni Buddha when asked, "Uhm . . .what?"

  3. #3
    Kyotai
    Guest
    It wasn't until I found this practice that I discovered a space where looking at someone without judgement was possible. I try to do this by seeing myself in his or her shoes. I of course stumble at times.

    "In sutra after sutra he meets people and offers them his presence...
    ..whether they are kings, monks, farmers, a naked and crazed woman...or the most reviled and feared murderer in the land."

    And Dogen..

    "make no distinction between the dull and sharp witted.."

    Those statements are profound.

    Ive learned in my practice that striving for that ideal, that perfection is a waste of time. It feels a little like chasing something you already have. In this moment, without the filter of judgement...

    all there is, is compassion and service for others. From my perspective, that's what it would look like.

    Thank you for the link. Google translate is a wonderful thing

    , Kyotai
    Sat today
    Last edited by Kyotai; 06-21-2015 at 05:55 AM.

  4. #4
    Thank you for the link.
    I'd like to see the star cap again, please, if appropriate, it looks good. (Not to break the no-fancy-hats-rule, but...)

    Since I have the personal experience of various states between so-called vegetable, non-verbal and high-functioning (though a bit weird), I see these distinctions only as a means to be helpful.
    In treatment, or in social welfare.
    So I carefully make distinctions to be able to drop distinctions.
    Knowing how exactly a persons disability or functional level at a time can influence what she will be able to do herself will allow both sides to interact more freely.
    Like, I called my table tennis partner who is hemiplegic "a lazy smurf" for not even picking up one ball in training, seeing that he can very well do that and does as soon as we are counting points and he is winning .

    Regarding the poem, I am wondering if some lines could be seen in context:
    A Great Vehicle Bodhisattva trusts without doubt.
    The middling or lowly can't help wondering;
    Will this hut perish or not?

    While the Bodhisattva understands impermanence and embraces it, "all others" are still troubled by questions.
    Ben's retranslations "Us humans..." would then be "All us ordinary humans (still) worry; will this hut perish or not?".

    Gassho,
    Danny
    #sattoday

  5. #5
    Thank you Jundo ... I really like what Ben says here,

    I'd like to do away with the idea that any horse is better than any other. They al just want to have pasture, room to roam, some tasty grass, maybe a carrot for a treat; if one won't run, we can enjoy watching it walk.
    For me, this brings home that putting aside all judgements, worry, and conditions allows us to see that we are all equal and are just wanting/needing the same things in this life. =)

    Gassho
    Shingen

    #sattoday

  6. #6
    Joyo
    Guest
    Thank you, Jundo and everyone. This book and these discussions has helped me so much with my daily Zen practice.

    This conversation reminds me of a facebook discussion this morning. Somebody posted a link blaming the Charleston shooting on anti-intellectualism. Of course, this got a string of posts, everyone with a finger to point at a different group to blame-----it's fundamentalisms fault, it's lack of gun control, it's anti-intellectualism, he was a Nazi so it's evolutionary teaching's fault...etc, etc. I chimed in with the thought that perhaps it's any of these things, but doesn't it all boil down to hate/tribalistic/dualistic thinking...what what can we do, as a society to help change this. Gosh, the responses I got....people agreed with me, and then continued on saying "it's the bible's fault, it support slavery" etc. etc. I too did not know it was possible to live a life without dividing others into groups, until I came to Treeleaf. It's how I was raised, and it's a very difficult mindset to change, after it being drilled into my head as a child for years and years. But it's not impossible, practicing, quietly, and allowing love in your heart...the borders are softened.

    Gassho
    Joyo
    sat today

  7. #7
    Hi,

    I can't stop judging thoughts. But I can let the judging thoughts float away.

    Gassho
    Meishin
    sat today

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Meishin View Post
    Hi,

    I can't stop judging thoughts. But I can let the judging thoughts float away.

    Gassho
    Meishin
    sat today
    Agreed Meishin ... as well, to try our best not to act on those judgements either.

    Gassho
    Shingen

    #sattoday

  9. #9
    I try to let go of judgements, but I fail to do so at times. I remind myself that we all come from many different walks of life. You never really know how much pain someone is in. They could be suffering deeply that results in poor behavior. Or have a pattern of bad habits that was born from their upbringing. Who am I to judge someone's behavior since I don't know the roots? Even if I do know, I still need to meet them from where they are at and respond with compassion. I think this practice helps to be aware of judging and to let those thoughts go. At least some of the time.

  10. #10
    Hi,

    It is not possible not to judge. It is possible to judge with good intent.

    Gassho, Jishin, _/st\_

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Jishin View Post
    Hi,

    It is not possible not to judge. It is possible to judge with good intent.

    Gassho, Jishin, _/st\_
    Yes, very good point. =)

    Gassho
    Shingen

    #sattoday

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Jishin View Post
    Hi,

    It is not possible not to judge. It is possible to judge with good intent.

    Gassho, Jishin, _/st\_
    Jundo asked, "Do you think that you can also learn to encounter people leaving aside all judgements, knowing each as precious? What would that be like?"

    It is dirty, difficult, tedious, fascinating and head-spinning. It's continually collecting the best and the worst, the clean and the filthy, the bright and the dim, and the distinct with the indistinct.

    You know: the usual gang of idiots.


    Gassho
    Myosha sat today
    "Recognize suffering, remove suffering." - Shakyamuni Buddha when asked, "Uhm . . .what?"

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Jishin View Post
    Hi,

    It is not possible not to judge. It is possible to judge with good intent.

    Gassho, Jishin, _/st\_
    Hmmm. I feel that it is the human tendency to judge about everything ... good/bad friend/foe beautiful/ugly delicious/distasteful ... or neutral or some combination and a whole bunch of other ways.

    However, by this Practice, Just Sitting ... one encounters such which shines right through and as this human tendency, beyond and right through all judgement, manifesting as good/bad friend/foe beautiful/ugly delicious/distasteful neutral and all the rest ...

    ... and such is, surprisingly, a certain Good Beautiful Friendly Delicious ...

    ... shining at the heart of friend and foe alike.

    Gassho, J

    SatToday
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  14. #14
    Hi,
    I am not shure if I can explain it. But there is again this Jundo´s two-eyes-story. I do belief in miracles as I told you already.And I belief in a non-judging life. - After experiencing the wholeness and part-of the whole-thing (I belief that we are able to exoerience it) we can.
    I do belief that, like with helping others, there is a gap. Before you are "prepaired" to help it is dangerous to help gang-people. So, I think it is the same with judging. After a certain time of "training" I think, it is easy with the non-judging live. Easy, becourse you see the "handicap" from a person as a part of the whole (which should be realy beautiful!!!). But I have no idea, if it isn´t a belief, which Jundo would say: "This is why Zen-folks fail"

    Gassho, Ernst

    sat today

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Jundo View Post
    Do you think that you can also learn to encounter people leaving aside all judgements, knowing each as precious? What would that be like?
    The part of this that sometimes puzzles me is "knowing each as precious" and I wonder why it's not "knowing each as ok". Viewed from a relative viewpoint 'precious' is a very strong value judgement, and saying everything is 'precious' would be like looking at life through rose tinted spectacles. A bit cloying. Likewise, it's one thing to say "Each moment of Zazen is complete, a perfect action, with not one thing to add, not one thing to take away", but to insert 'precious' or 'sacred' into this, e.g. here http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showt...%28Part-XIV%29 (and in lots other posts) is something very different, a value judgement on top of seeing things as they are.

    My stab at an answer has three parts. For one, this kind of language is used quite a lot in texts, e.g. Dogen says something like "treat each ingredient (in the kitchen) as if it were your own eyeball". The second part is that 'precious', 'sacred' are descriptions of experience rather than value judgements, i.e. that's what life tastes like after practicing for a while. Part 3 is that it could be a case of "If you treat all things as precious, then they are". What does anyone else think?

    Gassho
    Jeremy
    Sat Today
    Last edited by Jeremy; 06-24-2015 at 03:52 PM.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Jishin View Post
    Hi,

    It is not possible not to judge. It is possible to judge with good intent.

    Gassho, Jishin, _/st\_
    Hi Jundo,

    You know what I mean. No judging and no not judging. And with nothing to judge I go about my day judging who needs a diaper change around my house.

    Gassho, Jishin, _/st\_

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy View Post
    The part of this that sometimes puzzles me is "knowing each as precious" and I wonder why it's not "knowing each as ok". Viewed from a relative viewpoint 'precious' is a very strong value judgement, and saying everything is 'precious' would be like looking at life through rose tinted spectacles. A bit cloying. Likewise, it's one thing to say "Each moment of Zazen is complete, a perfect action, with not one thing to add, not one thing to take away", but to insert 'precious' or 'sacred' into this, e.g. here http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showt...%28Part-XIV%29 is something very different, a value judgement on top of seeing things as they are.
    Yes, this is just something to be sensed.

    Buddhist Practice is not about just some neutral "ok" or "just what it is". There truly is an amazing specialness, a wonder, a precious jewel quality to this world and our being alive in it that, well, is hard to convey in words. "Precious" and "Sacred" are about as good as it gets. It ain't merely "just what it is", but rather "JUST WHAT IT IS!".

    That is why the Mahayana Sutras, Dogen and most other old Zen guys tend to express reality in the most superlative terms! I mean, those old visionaries did not speak in understatement!

    From the Lotus Sutra ...

    Thus have I heard:
    At one the time the Buddha was in the land of Magadha, in a state of purity,
    at the site of enlightenment, having just realized true awareness. The ground
    was solid and firm, made of diamond, adorned with exquisite jewel discs and
    myriad precious flowers, with pure clear crystals. The Ocean of
    Characteristics of the various colors appeared over an infinite extent. There
    were banners of precious stones, constantly emitting shining light and
    producing beautiful sounds. Nets of myriad gems and garlands of exquisitely
    scented flowers hung all around. The finest jewels appeared spontaneously,
    raining inexhaustible quantities of gems and beautiful flowers all over the
    Earth. There were rows of jewel trees, their branches and foliage lustrous and
    luxuriant. By the Buddha’s spiritual power, he caused all the adornments of
    this enlightenment sight to be reflected therein.
    From Dogen, Shobogenzo Shoho Jisso (The Real Form of All Things) ...

    By making use of the intention to train, training and practice, the attaining of Wisdom, and nirvana, we thoroughly explore that the human body really is birth-and-death and coming-and-going, and, in protecting what we have received, we now hold firm and we now let go. With this as our bloodline, the flower opens and bears its fruit; with this as their bones and marrow, Makakashō and Ananda existed. The forms, just as they are, of wind, rain, water, and fire are what Makakashō and Ananda fully realized, and the innate natures, just as they are, of blue, yellow, red, and white, are what they fully realized as well. By relying upon our physical body and spiritual abilities, we turn the mundane into the sacred, and by relying upon their effects and consequences, we surpass Buddha and transcend Ancestor. By relying on these causes and conditions, we take hold of dirt and transmute it into gold. By relying upon effects and consequences, we receive the Transmission of the Dharma along with the robe.
    I believe I am being pretty conservative, actually, to merely hint at some "Precious" and "Sacred"

    Gassho, J

    SatToday
    Last edited by Jundo; 06-24-2015 at 12:48 PM.
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Jundo View Post
    Yes, this is just something to be sensed.

    Buddhist Practice is not about just some neutral "ok" or "just what it is". There truly is an amazing specialness, a wonder, a precious jewel quality to this world and our being alive in it that, well, is hard to convey in words. "Precious" and "Sacred" are about as good as it gets. It ain't merely "just what it is", but rather "JUST WHAT IT IS!".
    Crystal clear - thanks!

    Gassho
    Jeremy
    Sat Today

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Jishin View Post
    Hi,

    It is not possible not to judge.

    Gassho, Jishin, _/st\_
    That has always been my experience. I am now, at least, aware of my judgments, and can consider them more realistically. But upon encountering anyone or anything, a snap judgment appears right there along with it.
    Thanks,
    Kaishin (Open Heart aka Matt)
    Please take this layman's words with a grain of salt.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Jishin View Post
    Hi Jundo,
    Hi,
    It is not possible not to judge. It is possible to judge with good intent.
    Gassho, Jishin, _/st\_
    You know what I mean. No judging and no not judging. And with nothing to judge I go about my day judging who needs a diaper change around my house.
    Gassho, Jishin, _/st\_
    Hey Jishin,
    This was a very interesting exchange . It started with a deep thought ("It is not possible not to judge") in the world of the middling and lowly, went to a beyond-deep thought/non-thought ("No judging and no not judging") then returned to the world of the middling and lowly ("And with nothing to judge..."). This is "Just my opinion" - which is to say, that's the way what you said meshes in with all the junk that's found a temporary home in my head.

    Where I'm standing, I'm with the middling and lowly

    Gassho
    Jeremy
    Will Sit Later
    Last edited by Jeremy; 06-25-2015 at 11:31 AM.

  21. #21
    Hi Jeremy,

    Please forgive my absolutely worthless words. They are just garbage.

    Gassho, Jishin

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Jishin View Post
    Hi Jeremy,
    Please forgive my absolutely worthless words. They are just garbage.
    Gassho, Jishin


    Gassho,
    Jeremy
    Will Sit Later

  23. #23
    I wear a full thick beard because it intimidates people. I am constantly meeting new people and I carry everything I hold dear to me in the world with me everywhere I go. My van has no windows and has an official Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms Bureau sticker on the back and South Carolina tags. I don't lie when people ask me about it. A Mormon friend with the ATF gave it to me for that reason. He was concerned that I didn't travel with a gun so he gave me that to ward off some "bad guys". (Seriously) I do what I can to be misjudged by potential trouble. I keep it clean. I don't drink at all. I don't get chatty with people until I feel comfortable with them.

    But with all that I do to deliberately get misjudged, it makes me really question my own judgement. I suppose a fine balance of right thought, right speech and right action are in order. I can't help but make mistakes about other people's character or intentions. The potential consequences of my poor judgement could be severe. Practice has helped me let those observe those judgements for what they are when they occur. If they are merely empty illusions, I can let them pass. If there is something to be concerned about, I can let that translate into the real world.

    I screw this up constantly.

    Gassho

    Sat Today

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