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Thread: Another question for our fellow monks and nuns.

  1. #1

    Another question for our fellow monks and nuns.

    So I have a another question, maybe it is been answererd in another thread here in the forum, if so, please point me to that direction.
    This is a question for our fellow monks and nuns (we do have nuns right?): If we can be of service to our community and make life our temple and see all life circumstances as our dharma pracrice (like we all here know here at treeleaf) then what is the point of becoming a monk or a nun? What is YOUR reason behing that decision my dear monk and nun fellows?

    I ask this out of genuine curiosity please forgive me if the question is not approppiate to ask.

    And yes...I have Sat2Day with this and yesterday and will sat tomorrow, this question has been wandering my mind for quite time now.

    Gassho.
    Dancing between stillness and motion I find peace.

  2. #2
    Hi Kid,

    For me ordaining was only a natural step in my practice. I never even consider it as a serious thing to do. All I did was to sit, read and practice.

    But one day it became clear that priesthood was the best way to serve people, preserve the Dharma and to commit to my practice. I have always found joy in helping others, having solid ground and knowledge was appealing because I'd have more tools to do it.

    Where will all this take me? I have no idea and I have no plans for the future.

    All I know is that serving and helping others feels right.

    That's all, really.

    Gassho,

    Kyonin
    #SatToday
    Hondō Kyōnin
    奔道 協忍

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyonin View Post
    Hi Kid,

    For me ordaining was only a natural step in my practice. I never even consider it as a serious thing to do. All I did was to sit, read and practice.

    But one day it became clear that priesthood was the best way to serve people, preserve the Dharma and to commit to my practice. I have always found joy in helping others, having solid ground and knowledge was appealing because I'd have more tools to do it.

    Where will all this take me? I have no idea and I have no plans for the future.

    All I know is that serving and helping others feels right.

    That's all, really.

    Gassho,

    Kyonin
    #SatToday
    Thanks bro. I kinda see priesthood the same way.

    Sat2Day
    Dancing between stillness and motion I find peace.

  4. #4
    Hi Kid,

    I think we recently had another thread where our priests answered a like question (no female priests here now, although we are expecting that will change somewhere down the road.) We are also in the process of making some videos profiling the priests as they answer some questions from folks (we are a little delayed, but hope to have these during the Spring) ...

    http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showt...ts-of-Treeelaf

    I will answer briefly for myself.

    If we can be of service to our community and make life our temple and see all life circumstances as our dharma pracrice (like we all here know here at treeleaf) then what is the point of becoming a monk or a nun?
    As with any art or calling, there are practices, teachings, skills, attitudes, duties, knowledge to master and embody with special care so that one may be in a position to help others and pass on those practices, teachings etc. to others and into the future. It is the same with any art ... carpentry, classical piano, Karate, tea ceremony. All the people in this Sangha practice the same practices and teachings, by the way, but some folks need to transition more deeply from a position of recipient to servant, student to teacher, apprentice to master, car owner to mechanic, patient to nurse. That is all. Priesthood is primarily a role of servant to all sentient beings.

    You can read more about Shukke Tokudo ("Homeleaving Just At Home") at Treeleaf right here ...

    http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showt...l=1#post130673

    Kokuu linked to an excellent talk on this very topic by a youngish priest in another Soto Lineage, and I suggest you listen. It will answer many of your questions.

    The Koan of the Robe
    https://www.upaya.org/2015/02/joshin...n-of-the-robe/

    Gassho, J

    SatToday
    Last edited by Jundo; 02-26-2015 at 04:23 AM.
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  5. #5
    Hi.

    The reason is simple, being asked to become an priest, it was an good way to go, as i am here for Treeleaf and, maybe, can help even more then.

    Mtfbwy
    Fugen

  6. #6
    Hello kidbuda,

    For me, it is simple and yet has many aspects. The first was the feeling/calling within my heart, also ... to be of service to others, support my Sangha (Treeleaf), and deepen my practice. =)

    Gassho
    Shingen

    Just sat
    RINDO SHINGEN
    倫道 真現

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Fugen View Post
    Hi.

    The reason is simple, being asked to become an priest, it was an good way to go, as i am here for Treeleaf and, maybe, can help even more then.

    Mtfbwy
    Fugen
    Thank you Fugen.

    Gassho.

    sat2Day
    Dancing between stillness and motion I find peace.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Shingen View Post
    Hello kidbuda,

    For me, it is simple and yet has many aspects. The first was the feeling/calling within my heart, also ... to be of service to others, support my Sangha (Treeleaf), and deepen my practice. =)

    Gassho
    Shingen

    Just sat
    Thank you brother.

    Sat2day.
    Dancing between stillness and motion I find peace.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Jundo View Post
    Hi Kid,

    I think we recently had another thread where our priests answered a like question (no female priests here now, although we are expecting that will change somewhere down the road.) We are also in the process of making some videos profiling the priests as they answer some questions from folks (we are a little delayed, but hope to have these during the Spring) ...

    http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showt...ts-of-Treeelaf

    I will answer briefly for myself.



    As with any art or calling, there are practices, teachings, skills, attitudes, duties, knowledge to master and embody with special care so that one may be in a position to help others and pass on those practices, teachings etc. to others and into the future. It is the same with any art ... carpentry, classical piano, Karate, tea ceremony. All the people in this Sangha practice the same practices and teachings, by the way, but some folks need to transition more deeply from a position of recipient to servant, student to teacher, apprentice to master, car owner to mechanic, patient to nurse. That is all. Priesthood is primarily a role of servant to all sentient beings.

    You can read more about Shukke Tokudo ("Homeleaving Just At Home") at Treeleaf right here ...

    http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showt...l=1#post130673

    Kokuu linked to an excellent talk on this very topic by a youngish priest in another Soto Lineage, and I suggest you listen. It will answer many of your questions.

    The Koan of the Robe
    https://www.upaya.org/2015/02/joshin...n-of-the-robe/

    Gassho, J

    SatToday
    Thank you Jundo. Ive read the links, downloaded and still reading the 33 page PDF and listened to the talk. Really useful, my questions are answered for now (which really means for a long period of time ) Thank you again, I now have a wider picture of Zen Priesthood.


    Gassho.

    Sat2day
    Dancing between stillness and motion I find peace.

  10. #10

    Another question for our fellow monks and nuns.

    This practice is available to anyone - it is remarkably accessible - and as Jundo has said there is also an aspect of responsibility at play here - while we are all responsible to one another (and service is an important manifestation of that fact) there is the responsibility for the tradition and craft itself - both for oneself and others - this is where the apprenticeship to master, or student and teacher process is preserved and continued. In taking vows my primary purpose was to deepen my own commitment to practice - that is really it. Along the way I became aware of the fact that as ordained priests we are responsible in many ways for something that is larger than ourselves. I do not practice any longer to manage my anxiety or anger, or atone for past misdeeds or balance karma, but because I have a commitment to the reality of living as expressed through zazen - the realization of no separation between myself and others - people, trees, mountains. The rest will shake itself out like leaves falling from branches in an autumn breeze.

    I was reflecting on what it means to be a "Master" the other day, whether that is in Zen, Karate, Bonsai or tiddlywinks (my Sensei in Uechiryu conferred a Master's title and authorization to reach independently upon me last summer and he won't let me give it back). Being a Master means to work daily on a particular craft or activity, seeking new insights often through the repetition of the mundane, in which wonders and dimensions reveal themselves for those who endeavor to discover them. A Master rediscovers the beginner's mind - and finds a universe of unfolding possibilities and beauty through constant practice, and finds her or his own delicate humanity in the course of practice. A Master is nothing more than a serious student who practices with others to share their craft and humanity. A Master teaches without teaching - the power of example - positive and otherwise - being equally of value. A Master is not perfect - rather, a Master shares the entire dimension of their humanity and imperfection in a way that embraces the reality of life and our interconnection for others to emulate, explore, and ultimately carry forward in their lives.

    Deep bows
    Yugen


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Last edited by Yugen; 02-26-2015 at 03:49 PM.

  11. #11
    Thank you Yugen

    Gassho, Kyotai
    Sat today
    I am a student at Treeleaf. Please take what I say with a grain of salt. Gassho

  12. #12
    [QUOTE=Yugen;149790] the reality of living as expressed through zazen - the realization of no separation between myself and others - people, trees, mountains. The rest will shake itself out like leaves falling from branches in an autumn breeze.

    Yes indeed thank you Yugen,

    Gassho,
    David

    sattoday

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Yugen View Post
    This practice is available to anyone - it is remarkably accessible - and as Jundo has said there is also an aspect of responsibility at play here - while we are all responsible to one another (and service is an important manifestation of that fact) there is the responsibility for the tradition and craft itself - both for oneself and others - this is where the apprenticeship to master, or student and teacher process is preserved and continued. In taking vows my primary purpose was to deepen my own commitment to practice - that is really it. Along the way I became aware of the fact that as ordained priests we are responsible in many ways for something that is larger than ourselves. I do not practice any longer to manage my anxiety or anger, or atone for past misdeeds or balance karma, but because I have a commitment to the reality of living as expressed through zazen - the realization of no separation between myself and others - people, trees, mountains. The rest will shake itself out like leaves falling from branches in an autumn breeze.

    I was reflecting on what it means to be a "Master" the other day, whether that is in Zen, Karate, Bonsai or tiddlywinks (my Sensei in Uechiryu conferred a Master's title and authorization to reach independently upon me last summer and he won't let me give it back). Being a Master means to work daily on a particular craft or activity, seeking new insights often through the repetition of the mundane, in which wonders and dimensions reveal themselves for those who endeavor to discover them. A Master rediscovers the beginner's mind - and finds a universe of unfolding possibilities and beauty through constant practice, and finds her or his own delicate humanity in the course of practice. A Master is nothing more than a serious student who practices with others to share their craft and humanity. A Master teaches without teaching - the power of example - positive and otherwise - being equally of value. A Master is not perfect - rather, a Master shares the entire dimension of their humanity and imperfection in a way that embraces the reality of life and our interconnection for others to emulate, explore, and ultimately carry forward in their lives.

    Deep bows
    Yugen


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Thank you brother! very clear explanation. I share your idea of a Master, it echoes perfectly to my Chinese Internal Martial Arts and how I mix them with Buddhism. I really appreciate your words. We all are learning all the time, from every being if we just let ourselves to.

    Deep bows.

    Sat2Day.
    Dancing between stillness and motion I find peace.

  14. #14
    From reading the links Jundo posted and all your answers, I take this final (to me and for now) conclusion:
    Zen Buddhism and Zen Priesthood is about living the dharma, "walking the talk" I might say and using zazen and study to better understand that the apparent separation from each other and the whole universe is that, just an appearance.
    And second, is that I can very well live up to all of the above without being a monk. Feels good to remember all that and it was great reading all your answers that surely come from your heart.

    So, gonna sit again now with this in mind and to renew my personal vows to our precious just sitting practice.

    Thank you all.

    Gassho

    sat2day
    Dancing between stillness and motion I find peace.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by kidbuda View Post
    From reading the links Jundo posted and all your answers, I take this final (to me and for now) conclusion:
    Zen Buddhism and Zen Priesthood is about living the dharma, "walking the talk" I might say and using zazen and study to better understand that the apparent separation from each other and the whole universe is that, just an appearance.
    And second, is that I can very well live up to all of the above without being a monk. Feels good to remember all that and it was great reading all your answers that surely come from your heart.

    So, gonna sit again now with this in mind and to renew my personal vows to our precious just sitting practice.

    Thank you all.

    Gassho

    sat2day
    Yes, there is no need to be a "priest" or "monk" (and "priest" or "monk" are such strange words anyway, when for all of us our Practice is "out in the world" ... though the whole world is our monastery, the temple. I prefer "Sangha Companion" or "Helpful Guide" or "Rabbi/Teacher" as the best translation for what "Zen Priests" actually do). No need for everyone to go that way. Just Practice.

    Gassho, Jundo
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  16. #16
    Sigh.
    Yugen Shodo, this is so beautifully written.
    Three Sampai on my coconut rug to you.

    Darn, you make me want to learn karate!
    I'll try to let it pass and apply your experiences to the things I can do.


    Gassho,
    Danny
    #sattoday

  17. #17
    Thank you, Yugen, well put.
    Shinzan

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