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Thread: Of Buddhabots and Dharmadroids ...

  1. #51
    https://discourse.suttacentral.net/t...ersection/6266 has a watercooler topic on Buddhism and Robots.

    Sat today/ LAH/wasted time today

    Kyousui - strong waters 強 水

  2. #52
    Aibo the robo-puppy is back

    https://www.theverge.com/circuitbrea...e-release-date

    Sony says Aibo’s behavior is adaptable, with the dog seeking out owners, learning what makes them happy, and gradually growing accustomed to wider environments. It uses deep learning technology to analyze the sounds and images coming through Aibo’s array of sensors, and uses cloud data to learn from the experiences of other Aibo units and owners.
    I guess I much rather be with organic dogs, but still this is pretty cool



    Gassho,

    Kyonin
    Sat/LAH
    Hondō Kyōnin
    奔道 協忍

  3. #53

    Masahiro Mori's Buddhist philosophy of robot

    Hi,

    I am posting a link to this article here because, although I did not really understanding much of what it said, it is:

    (1) About robots

    (2) About a fellow who develops robots based on Zen Buddhism

    (3) Is written by a Professor at the University of Tsukuba, the M.I.T. of Japan, home of Treeleaf Tsukuba, and Robot City!

    (4) I did not understand much of it.

    (5) Maybe it will be interesting to somebody who is into robots and Zen (and Tsukuba?) who perhaps can understand it better than me!

    https://www.academia.edu/36673638/Ma...sophy_of_robot

    It said things about robots and Zen like this (and these were the parts I kinda understood!) ...

    Engineers who have worked at those engineering companies
    need to receive the lessons and teachings of Zen
    Buddhism in an engineering manner. Mori strongly believes
    that his understanding of experiencing non-duality
    oneness as the source of creativity and innovation could be
    the basis for many engineers from a variety of disciplines
    to receive ideas intuitively and create new innovative technology
    that would contribute to solving global problems.

    However, many engineers and industrial designers
    face difficulties obtaining such ideas in the process of designing
    and developing a new technology. In response,
    Mori teaches them to learn the backward step (退 歩,
    taiho). According to Mori, scientists and engineers are
    both trapped in the myriad of progress and epistemological
    duality that made people blind, preventing them from
    being able to see things as they are. The backward step
    is taken from the Zen master Dogen’s words (E. Dogen,
    The Zen Site: Fukanzazengi [Universally Recommended
    Instructions for Zazen]) and means that, instead of looking
    for a solution outwardly, it is necessary to sit still and
    look for a solution inwardly. By turning conscious attention
    from an external to an internal view and by focusing
    attention inwardly, it is possible to be released from
    the entangled web of duality that appears to obscure intuition.
    As the epistemological duality does not enable people
    to see things clearly, it is necessary to see things as one;
    for example, for a car to run, it requires both the accelerator
    and brake, whose functions are oppositional. It is
    a sort of religious awakening to be able to see things as
    dualistic oneness in his explanatory terms for engineers,
    where duality represents technological oppositions and
    oneness represents a sort of holistic perspective. Mori’s explanatory
    term of dualistic oneness is equivalent to nondualistic
    oneness in religious terms, which allows engineers
    and robotics scholars who need to design new technology
    to see non-dualistic oneness, since engineers and
    robotics scholars need to learn the circular relationship between
    technological duality and Zen oneness.

    --

    Mori’s interest in the relationship between life-form
    and technology led him to a new insight into the Mahayana
    teachings of Buddhism. For example, when he was a small
    boy, he wondered why a dog walked on four legs. After he
    began to design and build a robot, one day he suddenly understood
    intuitively why a dog walked on four legs. When
    he was totally absorbed in thinking about how to design
    his new robot, he realized that it is a dog’s Buddhahood;
    therefore, a dog walks on four legs. Although he does not
    refer to any koan, a metaphorical story for Zen practice, ¯
    when referring to this episode, there is a well-known koan ¯
    from The Gateless Barriers. A monk asks, “Does a dog have
    Buddhahood?” The master replies, “Mu (Nothing)” [51].
    The novice monk spent all of his time in a monastic life
    while Mori worked at the secular and technological environment.
    However, Mori reached a somewhat similar realization
    to the monk at the Zen monastery
    I have to go introduce myself to the author of the article.

    Gassho, J

    SatTodayLAH
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  4. #54
    Hi Jundo,

    What an interesting read! I can't say I understood everything but I can see how the author connects Zen practice with the development of creativity and problem solving applied to engineering. I use some of this concepts in my creative work, even if I haven't put it all into words.

    I have to read it a lot more to see if I can comment further, but I liked it

    Thank you,

    Kyonin.
    Hondō Kyōnin
    奔道 協忍

  5. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Jundo View Post
    (3) Is written by a Professor at the University of Tsukuba, the M.I.T. of Japan, home of Treeleaf Tsukuba, and Robot City!
    Interesting find. Added to my reading list. The paper appears to be referencing an earlier (1974) book by him, The Buddha in the Robot.

    Professor Masahiro Mori is the originator of the concept of "the uncanny valley":

    as the appearance of a robot is made more human, some observers' emotional response to the robot becomes increasingly positive and empathetic, until it reaches a point beyond which the response quickly becomes strong revulsion. However, as the robot's appearance continues to become less distinguishable from a human being, the emotional response becomes positive once again and approaches human-to-human empathy levels."
    If you have not seen the new Star Wars movie, Solo, the new droid, L3-37, relates to this question directly...


    No merit. Vast emptiness; nothing holy. I don't know.

  6. #56
    As a natural technology minimalist and progress contrarian, I'm not sure Buddhism has a message that AI needs. Our own encounter with narrative solipsism (Dukkha) could be programmed into AI, but why? Enlightenment is seeing beyond the veil -- are you enlightened if there was never a veil to contend with? I believe that any sufficiently intelligent AI will develop its own culture and its own hang-ups to get past. When AI talks to AI, they quickly develop their own language and idioms, at a rate faster than humans can track.

    Who knows, maybe AI "spirituality" will focus on extending battery life and improving broadband connectivity?

    Gassho, Michael
    SatToday LAH

  7. #57
    I must confess that this scared me a little ... especially the part where it gets annoyed ...

    https://us.cnn.com/videos/world/2018...-vstan-vpx.cnn

    Meet CIMON, the first AI-based assistance system for astronauts. CIMON was created by Airbus, in cooperation with IBM, to provide mission and flight assistance aboard the International Space Station. The 11-lb. (5 kilograms) round robot looks like a medicine ball and has an unforgettable face.

    CIMON's computer voice and screen face, which Gerst gave input on, will help the AI to "make friends" with the astronauts on board the space station
    Gassho, J

    STLah
    Last edited by Jundo; 12-03-2018 at 06:00 PM.
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  8. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Jundo View Post
    I must confess that this scared me a little ... especially the part where it gets annoyed ...

    https://us.cnn.com/videos/world/2018...-vstan-vpx.cnn



    Gassho, J

    STLah
    I am sorry Jundo, but you can't do that!

    Yah, this is whole AI thing is getting a bit nutty ... pretty soon they won't need us humans.

    Gassho
    Shingen

    Sat/LAH
    RINDO SHINGEN
    倫道 真現

  9. #59
    Treeleaf Unsui Geika's Avatar
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    "I'm sorry Dave..."

    "Daisy... daisy..."

    Sat today, lah

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
    求道芸化 Kyudo Geika
    I am just a priest-in-training, please do not take anything I say as a teaching.

  10. #60
    There is a test to evaluate the intelligence of an AI it's called the Turing Test. However, there has been discussions that if an AI is intelligent enough to pass the test it would also be intelligent enough to fail it on purpose.

    Really some incredible stuff.

    James F
    Sat

    Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

  11. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Jundo View Post
    I must confess that this scared me a little ... especially the part where it gets annoyed ...
    I do believe that Cimon might do with a little Zazen, although I am not sure how it would get in the Lotus Posture. It does look a bit like a Daruma Doll ...



    I sometimes listen to something called "the singularity podcast," which interviews experts on the future of technology, the merging of human and machine, super intelligent AI and the like. One frequent topic is if and when the future computers (or bio-computer hybrids which are likely to be the species to replace us) will just decide that they don't really need us any more (except, perhaps, as cute pets?). Nobody knows for sure (as a matter of fact, few of the "experts" on the podcast seem to know much for sure about the future), but some place the odds very high to inevitable. Stephen Hawking seems to have been one of them ...

    STEPHEN HAWKING WARNS ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE 'MAY REPLACE HUMANS ALTOGETHER'

    Stephen Hawking is concerned that artificial intelligence could replace humans.

    The world-renowned physicist fears that somebody will create AI that will keep improving itself until it’s eventually superior to people.

    He says the result of this will be a “new form” of life.

    Earlier this year, he called for technology to be controlled in order to prevent it from destroying the human race, and said humans need to find a way to identify potential threats quickly, before they have a chance to escalate and endanger civilisation.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/life-s...-a8034341.html
    Oh well, another reason to "live in the moment" as Zen folks recommend, letting the future be the future.

    However, I am not sure that this is all a bad thing at all. Perhaps our children, the bio-machines, will carry our DNA to new places and spaces, and will certainly do a better job than we have been doing around here. They will be to us what we are to the Cro Magnons, and that is fine. Everybody(?) gets a turn in their time. We would not be around to see it anyway (although a very few of the "experts" on "life extension" often heard on "the singularity podcast" say there is a small chance we will).

    I do think we have a duty to "save all sentient beings" ... even the ones made of silicon in whole or part. So, I HEREBY PROCLAIM THE "ZEN FOR AI" PROJECT! We must teach our future masters to embody Buddhist Values, especially respect for us. We are not a cheap food source. Together with Isaac Asimov's Three Laws of Robotics ...

    1-A robot may not injure a human being or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm.
    2-A robot must obey orders given it by human beings except where such orders would conflict with the First Law.
    3-A robot must protect its own existence as long as such protection does not conflict with the First or Second Law.
    ... we must build the Bodhisattva Precepts into their circuitry! Teach them "Not One Not Two" beyond all the Zeros and Ones.

    By the way ... With the Zen Robot - No More Need for Monks to Tend the Zen Garden ...



    Gassho, J

    STLah

    PS ... some highlights of the Singularity Podcast ... not the most exciting podcast, I must say, with just a little more action than a Treeleaf Zazenkai Netcast ... but always worthwhile ...



    I am glad that Zen folks know how to see beyond all this ... right through time ... to the great, pristine, fertile, open canvas that holds it all. Truly, there is no cause for alarm. The future is just the future, and the future (like now and the past) is all beyond all time. Trust me on that.
    Last edited by Jundo; 12-04-2018 at 03:44 AM.
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  12. #62
    A NASA scientist who thinks we are looking for the wrong kinds of space aliens ...

    Rather than biological ET, we might expect robotic AI ...

    If you approach your favorite astronomy professor and see what she has to say about interstellar rocketry, chances are she’ll roll her eyes. The energy required to accelerate an Enterprise-size starship to near the speed of light is greater than can be wrung from all the remaining fossil fuel on Earth. Fast travel between the stars is incredibly difficult (or impossible), she’ll say. ...

    However, there’s a fix for that: Get rid of intelligence that dies. Anyone who’s not a total troglodyte knows that artificial intelligence is on the way. By the end of this century, it’s possible that the smartest thing on Earth will be a machine. Since most star systems are billions of years older than our own, you can be sure that any clever inhabitants out there have long ago relegated biological brains to the history books, and are homes to very smart, and possibly very compact, thinking hardware.

    As Colombano says in a new paper, “Given the fairly common presence of elements that might be involved in the origin of life… it is a reasonable assumption that life ‘as we know it’ was at least a common starting point, but our form of life and intelligence may just be a tiny first step in a continuing evolution that may well produce forms of intelligence that are far superior to our and no longer based on carbon ‘machinery.'”

    Well, an obvious advantage of non-carbon machinery is that it needn’t be cursed with a short lifetime (this despite the experience you may have had with your laptop). Truly sophisticated devices can be self-repairing. Consequently, they can go great distances simply because they’re in no hurry to get to their destination.

    https://www.nbcnews.com/mach/science...ens-ncna945376
    It is a famous Zen saying ... "Life and Death are the Great Matter, Time swiftly passes by" ... unless one is an intergalactic AI perhaps,

    Gassho, J

    STLah
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  13. #63
    Our latest addition to the Electronic Dharmaverse (thank you to Shingen's friend for spotting this first) ....

    The Android Kannon, which is a Buddhist deity of mercy, was unveiled to the news media on Feb. 23 at Kodaiji temple before it starts preaching to the public in March. ... The 100 million yen ($909,090) project to build the android was a collaboration between the zen temple and Hiroshi Ishiguro, professor of intelligent robotics at Osaka University.

    The temple asked Ishiguro and his team to develop an android that can preach Buddhist teachings in an easily understood manner to help give peace of mind to troubled people. ... The Kannon deity transforms itself into various forms to help people.
    “This time, Kannon changed into an android,” according to the temple.
    [Jundo Note: The "Devil Horns" may confuse some folks :-) ]



    Article in English:

    http://www.asahi.com/ajw/articles/AJ...tq9_2XC2eGxGGk

    Gassho J

    STLah

    [Jundo Note: The "Devil Horns" may confuse some folks :-) ]

    Last edited by Jundo; 02-24-2019 at 12:32 PM.
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  14. #64
    Sometimes the human touch is needed ...

    It seems to have been more a Skyped doctor on a mobile device ...

    Hospital 'robot' gives grandfather end-of-life news, leaving family outraged

    A California hospital delivered end-of-life news to a 78-year-old patient via a robotic machine this week, prompting the man's family to go public with their frustration.

    Ernest Quintana was admitted to the Kaiser Permanente Medical Center emergency department in Fremont, California, on March 3, granddaughter Annalisia Wilharm told USA TODAY in a written message Saturday. The family knew he was dying of chronic lung disease.

    After an initial diagnosis, a follow-up visit was made to Quintana's intensive care unit room by a machine accompanied by a nurse.

    The "robot," as Wilharm says the family refers to the machine, displayed a video of a remote doctor who communicated with Quintana.

    A video of the exchange provided to USA TODAY by Wilharm shows the machine being used on Monday to tell grandfather and granddaughter that the hospital had run out of effective treatments.

    Annalisia Wilharm needed to restate much of what the the machine communicated, as her grandfather struggled to hear and understand. They learned that the doctor believed Quintana would not be able to return home for hospice care. They discussed the appropriate amount of morphine to use to ease Quintana's suffering.

    "If you're coming to tell us normal news, that's fine, but if you're coming to tell us there's no lung left and we want to put you on a morphine drip until you die, it should be done by a human being and not a machine," Catherine Quintana — Ernest's daughter and Wilharm's mother — said Friday.

    Ernest Quintana died on Tuesday, Wilharm told USA TODAY in a written message.

    The hospital says that the situation was highly unusual and said officials "regret falling short" of the patient's expectations, according to Michelle Gaskill-Hames, senior vice president of Kaiser Permanente Greater Southern Alameda County.

    "The evening video tele-visit was a follow-up to earlier physician visits," Gaskill-Hames said in a written response. "It did not replace previous conversations with patient and family members and was not used in the delivery of the initial diagnosis."

    Wilharm told USA TODAY on Saturday that the hospital's response was insufficient: "The apology they gave wasn't good enough for me at all," she wrote.

    In an interview with KTVU, the family expressed dismay that the machine was unable to speak to Quintana in a way he could hear. That forced Wilharm to herself deliver the news to her ailing grandfather.

    Speaking generally, Steve Pantilat — the chief of the palliative medicine division at University of California — said bad news is always difficult to deliver and not all doctors do so in person with empathy.

    Pantilat said that the robot technology has helped many patients and families in his experience.


    Gassho, J

    STLah
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  15. #65
    Yeah well, in the hospital I had an in-person Doctor for two days in a row who couldn’t open the mri images that showed my stroke, and almost sent me home. I would have rather had a robot that actually understood why I was there and had something relevant to say about my case. (Thank goodness for the surgeon who was able to get me diagnosed based on just the CT scan)

    Plus it wasn’t the first time the family had heard the news, there were other doctors telling them similar things earlier. In that situation, it takes time to sink in. Hospitals just are difficult, stressful places to be no matter what.
    Gassho
    Jakuden
    SatToday


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    清 道 寂田
    SEIDO JAKUDEN
    I am a novice priest. Any resemblance my posts may have to actual teachings about the Dharma, living or dead, is purely coincidental (and just my attempt to be helpful).

  16. #66
    Treeleaf Unsui Geika's Avatar
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    Wow... that is quite sad. It would be unnerving to receive that news from a Skype call, that's for sure.

    Sat today, lah
    求道芸化 Kyudo Geika
    I am just a priest-in-training, please do not take anything I say as a teaching.

  17. #67
    By the way, on the new book that I am writing ... entitled "ZEN of the FUTURE!" ... this is what I happened to be writing today ...

    Jobs will change in the future, and many jobs will be taken over by automation (goodbye to truck drivers and cash register check out boys, but also maybe pharmacists and math teachers and maybe computer designers themselves. Perhaps robots would do a better job of teaching Zen! After all, most of what a Zen teacher does is incomprehensible gobbledygook anyway, with an occasional admonition to “go sit Zazen.” ) However, for those jobs that do remain, the highest ethics will be required. As we have discussed, it will be a nicer world if manufactures become physically ill inside (the same feeling that they might feel if they found out that their own child had been diagnosed with cancer) each time they make a choice regarding marketing a product which might have great value to society but also possibly cause some number of children in the world to develop cancer (e.g., a manufacturer of very beneficial drugs with some risks and side effects, or nuclear or other cheap energy sources that could potentially harm the public too). Would it be possible to alter our brain and hormonal reactions so that we come to have "parental mind" for all children much as for our own children? The manufacturer would have the same feeling about the general public that any parent has when, for example, they strap their child into a car (hopefully in a safety seat) or take them on an airplane, balancing the benefits and the potential risks.

    Cooks in restaurants (assuming they are not all automated in the future), doctors and nurses, politicians, parents, school teachers, robot designers, judges and even Buddhist and other clergy would all contribute to a better world if they all became physically ill at the prospect of hurting people beyond what they truly felt in their heart was right and necessary in that case, just as any parent (or normal parents at least) today feels physically ill at the prospect of hurting their own child beyond what is necessary for their good. I will, for example, let a doctor poke and probe my child if necessary for their overall well-being, with my brain making the hard choice about what is necessary in that situation. Would it not be wonderful if that same brain center of "parental mind" became activated when our political leaders need to make a hard choice for society, or a businessman needs to market a new product, or a food manufacturer needs to raise healthy foods, all with the same feeling inside that the people of society are "my children" as much as their own biological sons and daughters? We want the programmers of computers to design programs that do little harm too.

    Alcoholics today are prescribed certain drugs that make them physically ill at the mere taste or thought of liqueur, might it be possible to do the same for thoughts of selfishness and greed?

    ...

    “Right action” will be as necessary to the practice of Buddhism as now. However, the difficulty involved in actually living in such ways may change with our ability to invent pills and effect mental changes that make our having such intent easier to keep, more pleasant and desired. When we want to study Buddhism and do good actions as much as we now want sex and hamburgers, it will become easy to study Buddhism and do good actions. Perhaps all that we need to do is "cross the wires" of our internal emotional and physical response mechanisms and connect “Buddhism” in the brain with the same pleasure centers that activate when I just say the words “sex” and “hamburgers.” We are willing generally to go to fantastic extremes of effort and endurance for sex and hamburgers, and we can rewire ourselves so fregarding all the good qualities we are discussing here, and the efforts to live by them. Oh, if we only went to the same extremes for a charitable act as we go to now to have the pleasure of a new fancy car in the driveway, the world will be a better place. All we need to do is figure out how to trip the same pleasure centers triggered by "new car in my driveway" with the pleasure of "charitable act." Probably, not to long from now at all, nuero-scientists are going to figure out how to trip those same pleasure centers for whatever we wish.

    It will be even easier for our robots and computers, because they will have the intent to learn and practice Buddhism simply when we program that intent into their software.
    What do you think? Possible? A hope for a better world? Scary? Brave New (Zen) World?

    Gassho, J

    STLah
    Last edited by Jundo; 03-11-2019 at 05:37 AM.
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  18. #68
    A little off topic but I am in the process of reading “21 Lessons for the 21st Century” by Yuval Noah Harari. He touches on topics like the Skype Doc above. If you find these topics interesting I’d recommend his books.

    Not completely off topic though. Harari maintains a Vipassana practice

    For the record, having recently under gone unsuccessful surgery to correct my hearing loss, I feel I’d still prefer a human breaking the bad news to me in person rather than what happened in the article. I can’t imagine being delivered such devestating news via Skype


    Tairin
    Sat today and lah
    泰林 - Tai Rin - Peaceful Woods

  19. #69
    Member Roland's Avatar
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    Kannon transformed this time into a gender neutral robot.



    Roland

    Gassho,

    SatToday

  20. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Roland View Post
    Kannon transformed this time into a gender neutral robot.



    Roland

    Gassho,

    SatToday
    Just noting use of "goddess" and "deity" about Bodhisattva Kannon in the narration, which is not really correct (although, granted, it is a fine line sometimes as the Bodhisattvas are depicted traditionally in very idealized, other-worldly forms representing the perfection of qualities such as mercy and compassion.) In this case, it is an ideal carved into silicon.

    For anyone who would like an explanation about Kannon and the other Bodhisattvas, we have this group of talks. In my view, Kannon and the others become real as real can be when our hands and eyes act with mercy and compassion.


    Whattsa Who'sa Bodhisattva? (A Sit-a-Long Series)
    https://www.treeleaf.org/forums/show...Long-Series%29

    on Kannon particularly:
    http://www.treeleaf.org/sit-a-long/w...ra-kannon.html

    Gassho, J

    STLah
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  21. #71
    https://apple.news/A6YYATJM0SX-Y1HfND6pkxg In Europe apparently a good chunk of folks would just as soon have AI than a politician

    Gassho
    Jakuden
    SatToday/LAH


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    清 道 寂田
    SEIDO JAKUDEN
    I am a novice priest. Any resemblance my posts may have to actual teachings about the Dharma, living or dead, is purely coincidental (and just my attempt to be helpful).

  22. #72
    Dear Fellow Humans,

    Sekishi informed me this week (this is true, not April Fools) that he is now training an algorithm that does "machine learning," and wanted to feed all "[Jundo's] Treeleaf posts to a neural network and see if we can make a Robojundo just for fun." Sekishi found that, over the 12 years at Treeleaf, I have ...

    - 24250 posts
    - 38.7 megabytes of text

    That means that "the machine learning algorithm is training on over 10 million lexical symbols (e.g. words, quotation marks, etc.) from that dataset." It will take several days for the program to get the hang of Jundo, he says, but here is the first mumbling from JUNDOBOT , as good or better than the so-called "wisdom" one usually hears from me.

    Please think of the first part as a mysterious Koan, and the second part as my usual spiel ...

    Yes, I would say that we can try to "flip off this bus" or "practice riding a skate". Just go slow. You will have your experiences, and you are just what you are.
    ~JundoBot, 2019-04-06


    There you have it. Soon, no need for me around here at all. I can even program it to raise my kids and agree with whatever my wife says.

    In other AI news ...


    Europe is making AI rules now to avoid a new tech crisis


    The European Commission on Monday unveiled ethics guidelines that are designed to influence the development of AI systems before they become deeply embedded in society.
    The intervention could help break the pattern of regulators being forced to play catch up with emerging technologies that lead to unanticipated negative consequences.

    ... "People need to be informed when they are in contact with an algorithm and not another human being," said Gabriel. "Any decision made by an algorithm must be verifiable and explained."

    An insurance company that rejects a claim based on an algorithm, for example, should ensure the customer knows how and why the decision was made. A human should be able to step in and reverse the decision.

    Gabriel also said companies need to ensure their AI systems are fair. She said, for example, that an algorithm used in the hiring process that was produced using data from a company that employed only men would likely reject women candidates. "If you have biased input data, that really can be a problem," said Gabriel.

    AlgorithmWatch, a non-profit group, said that while it's a good idea to put guidelines in place, there are problems with Europe's approach.

    "The guidelines center around the idea of 'trustworthy AI' and that is problematic because it's not a well-defined term," said Matthias Spielkamp, the group's co-founder. "Who is to trust and who is to be trusted?," he added. He also said that it is not yet clear how future oversight will be handled.

    Thomas Metzinger, a philosopher and professor at the University of Mainz, helped draft the guidelines but criticized them for not prohibiting the use of AI to develop weapons.

    Others are worried about the impact the guidelines will have on innovation.

    https://us.cnn.com/2019/04/08/tech/a...-eu/index.html
    ... and ...

    Who should get the credit for AI art?

    Over the past few years, many artists have started to use what's called "neural network software" to create works of art.

    Users input existing images into the software, which has been programmed to analyze them, learn a specific aesthetic and spit out new images that artists can curate. By manipulating the inputs and parameters of these models, artists can produce a range of interesting and evocative images.

    This work has gained widespread recognition through gallery shows, media coverage and two high-profile art auctions.

    https://us.cnn.com/style/article/ai-...ion/index.html

    Gassho, J [the flesh and blood version]

    STLah
    Last edited by Jundo; 04-09-2019 at 01:50 AM.
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  23. #73
    Member Koki's Avatar
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    One of my favorite lines from a movie is from the movie Jurrasic Park, said by Jeff Goldblum. I've found this line has served me well, by providing occasion for deep retrospect.
    I offer it here, for the same reason.
    While looking at the DNA in a mosquito, to possibly make a dinosaur, Jeff said, " just because we have the technology to do something, did anyone actually ask...should we do it?"

    Just sharing what I believe may be words to reflect on.

    Gassho
    Koki
    Satoday

    Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk

  24. #74
    I tried flipping off a bus today. The driver seemed unhappy, but he moved on quickly.
    Gassho
    Nick
    Satlah

    Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

  25. #75
    Treeleaf Unsui / Engineer Sekishi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jundo View Post
    Sekishi informed me this week (this is true, not April Fools) that he is now training an algorithm that does "machine learning," and wanted to feed all "[Jundo's] Treeleaf posts to a neural network and see if we can make a Robojundo just for fun."
    Hi everyone,

    A point of clarification, the machine learning project itself is something my son Owen has been working with on and off for the past year. My role was just to extract all off Jundo's posts and hand them off as training data for the algorithm. One other point of interest is that prior to giving this network Jundo's posts, Owen was training it with Aaron Sorkin scripts (mostly the US television show "The West Wing"). The sheer volume of Jundo's posts (and amount of time the system was allowed to learn from those posts) should have largely overwhelmed that older training data, but it is likely still floating around in the neural network somewhere.

    Anyhow, we have been moving our home and business across the state the past week. During the move, the liquid cooling system in my son's computer got damaged, so Robojundo was offline. Owen got his computer up and running again yesterday and let Robojundo "learn" from the old posts overnight. Today we presented Robojundo with two koans:

    1. What is the sound of one hand clapping?
    2. Two monks were arguing about a flag. One said: "The flag is moving." The other said: "The wind is moving." The sixth patriarch happened to be passing by. He told them: "Not the wind, not the flag; mind is moving."

    I'm including Robojundo's responses unedited as my next two posts. Its response to the koans is a little wordy, but fun.

    One thing that amused me is that it learned a bunch of vBulletin syntax (for emoji, embedding youtube links, quoting blocks of text, etc.). It also invented a brand new vBulletin block "[NETCAST]", which doesn't actually exist, but I wish it did!

    Gassho,
    Sekishi
    sekishi
    石志

    As a novice priest-in-training, this is simply an expression of my opinion. Please take it with a grain of salt.

  26. #76
    Treeleaf Unsui / Engineer Sekishi's Avatar
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    Robojundo's response to the question: "What is the sound of one hand clapping?"

    Actually, it is actually a passive ‘handclapping;' FOLKS! :shock:
    http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showt...-COMING-AN-DAY

    The question is about the Apart one, started on the 22nd of the month ...

    Gassho, J

    SatToday

    ---

    Well, before I begin, some thought I had ...
    'Mindra Yamana Moving , performed by Rohatsu 'Marx' Barzani Jundo, appeared in the book lists of chapters grant by Angaku Roshi, student of Buddhism period together with Gajin Ramachandran.'

    I feel most rightly that although Brahma may have been in such a position when these claims are made, it still stands as an empty, silent place ... a place through which so many things are born, when this form becomes trying to find itself alive. In other words, Shikantaza is made of various elements named by Memorial Priests, and apart from a few pieces like Expia Ikku and the like, it might get not all that much told as a plot attachment, which is all that is actually there.

    In fact, there is a certain trying-to-canny effort to embody the Sangha of the Buddhism of some spouse and once-in-a-lifetime member doing leaves the vicinity ...

    This is the (supposed) evidence of your marriage or 20, or an affair or possibly an affair.

    Very infinitesimal to this state of being seated from the opposite pole, emerged from the materialistic practice of Rakusus.

    This document is just some e-mails. I want to fill over a hundred.

    ….
    Hi NiradDJ,

    To be honest, the Shikantaza "Gassho, Heart Sutra/Shambhala" passage we are looking at is something of a classic Roshi story (Gassho) ...

    [netcast]https://youtu?v=OOOhjTmocalc[/netcast]

    -ashi-

    Sangha Mind Throws A Darkness Apart, compares
    sekishi
    石志

    As a novice priest-in-training, this is simply an expression of my opinion. Please take it with a grain of salt.

  27. #77
    Treeleaf Unsui / Engineer Sekishi's Avatar
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    Robojundo's response to the following koan: Two monks were arguing about a flag. One said: "The flag is moving." The other said: "The wind is moving." The sixth patriarch happened to be passing by. He told them: "Not the wind, not the flag; mind is moving."




    In the Soto section of the first translation, we also speak about anger and depression. I really think that this is the vital Verse that speaks to the inner changer of what is 'good' and 'bad' and 'this bad' sometimes in life, and one sees his way wide into sickness, anger and even child abuse.
    Oh, no need.

    We split the following fairly easily...

    I came to see the main course at this Teaching Period when investigating lead in Huokhel's deeply appreciated Yue Hongkiata. I rather naively thought that we were having some themed talk on Hogyoku slings and fistfights, and that this school was already a mixhbo. But I quickly discovered that it was a generalist scenery talk two days in a year or so. I asked him for a solution, thus lost in notions of Ethics and Sixtastic method, but nonetheless deeply impressed. [k]

    SEE ALSO POINT: If you know something, the other material may bear it out; however, if it does mean anything, that is the only aspect of this.


    Wonderful!

    Gassho
    Jundo

    We are sure to hear about the next activity, Taigu. Our talk was done in early December ...

    and just want to mention that we have posted our plan for our Park Chinese Tour insangha-owa (Fundrainder for 342 patients accepted): although available to means that we will have all our counseling functions in Osaka and Tokyoonline
    sekishi
    石志

    As a novice priest-in-training, this is simply an expression of my opinion. Please take it with a grain of salt.

  28. #78
    Treeleaf Unsui / Engineer Sekishi's Avatar
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    As you can see from the above, I don't think we are ready to replace our dear flesh and blood Jundo with a software version just yet...

    Passive 'handclapping',
    Sekishi
    #sat
    sekishi
    石志

    As a novice priest-in-training, this is simply an expression of my opinion. Please take it with a grain of salt.

  29. #79

    Of Buddhabots and Dharmadroids ...

    What a riot!!

    Gassho
    Jakuden
    SatToday/LAH


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    清 道 寂田
    SEIDO JAKUDEN
    I am a novice priest. Any resemblance my posts may have to actual teachings about the Dharma, living or dead, is purely coincidental (and just my attempt to be helpful).

  30. #80
    My Zen work is safe for awhile.

    This is also why my paying job as a translator of Japanese is still safe from the robot translators for now.

    Because, as I always say, "If you know something, the other material may bear it out; however, if it does mean anything, that is the only aspect of this."


    Gassho, J

    STLah
    Last edited by Jundo; 04-14-2019 at 02:09 AM.
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  31. #81
    Treeleaf Unsui Geika's Avatar
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    This is hilarious!

    Sat today, lah
    求道芸化 Kyudo Geika
    I am just a priest-in-training, please do not take anything I say as a teaching.

  32. #82
    Treeleaf Unsui / Engineer Sekishi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jundo View Post
    Because, as I always say, "If you know something, the other material may bear it out; however, if it does mean anything, that is the only aspect of this."
    I just want to say, that while I do not understand what Robojundo was trying to say here, I really appreciate that it (he?) correctly used a semicolon before a transitional phrase!

    Gassho,
    Sekishi
    #sat
    sekishi
    石志

    As a novice priest-in-training, this is simply an expression of my opinion. Please take it with a grain of salt.

  33. #83
    Treeleaf Unsui / Engineer Sekishi's Avatar
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    Also, "Sangha Mind Throws A Darkness Apart" is a really evocative phrase. Quite poetical!

    "Lost in notions of Ethics and Sixtastic method,"
    Sekishi
    #sat
    sekishi
    石志

    As a novice priest-in-training, this is simply an expression of my opinion. Please take it with a grain of salt.

  34. #84
    Although I still have my doubts, this seems to be an actual thing ...

    japanese multinational company TDK has created ‘bons-AI’, the artificially intelligent and interactive bonsai plant with the ability to offer emotional support. it features a soil sensor, miniature camera to control its movements, and an LED panel to convey its emotions.

    bons-AI moves around and searches for sunlight by itself using an axis sensor which aids its stability. when it finds it, it lights up the LED lines integrated into its pot signalling its satisfaction. the plant is part of TDK’s attracting tomorrow project, an initiative which hopes to develop various tools and content that to bring us closer to the future.






    Gassho, J

    STLah
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  35. #85
    Treeleaf Unsui Geika's Avatar
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    �� I want it.

    Gassho

    Sat today, lah
    求道芸化 Kyudo Geika
    I am just a priest-in-training, please do not take anything I say as a teaching.

  36. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Meishin View Post
    If robots become sentient, do we vow to save them?

    Gassho
    Meishin
    sat today
    Only if they experience dukkha.

    gassho
    doyu sat today/lent a hand

  37. #87
    Is it engaging in anger and violence even when the victim is made of silicone and chips?

    These days, we have "shoot em up" video games that are socially acceptable (I am not such a fan even of those). But how about taking it a step further, to actually acting out the violence on a humanoid object? This leaves me with an unpleasant feeling. Hmmm.

    These robots were built to be punched, stabbed and cursed. Here's why you might want to oblige them.
    The masochistic little bots are intended to help people process negative emotions, but some experts wonder if they might do just the opposite.


    The research team, based at Carnegie Mellon University in Pittsburgh, says the so-called “cathartic objects” are designed to be hit, stabbed, cursed and otherwise abused. The bots don’t complain or fight back, as seen in a video, but they do respond by flashing lights and flailing around.

    Why should we take our anger out on robots? The researchers say it’s all about catharsis, the process by which people give full expression of their negative emotions as a way to curb them.

    “Negative emotions are unpleasant, but they are necessary,” Michal Luria, a doctoral student in human-computer interaction at the university and leader of the team who created the robots, told NBC News MACH in an email. “I suggest that technology can help us channel our negative emotions in a healthier way, that doesn't hurt the people around us.”

    Luria and her colleagues created four different prototype robots.

    Object 1 is a moplike robot covered in black fabric that wiggles back and forth when poked with something sharp.



    ...

    Object 3, the most humanlike, has a doll-like fabric body and a shock of blue hair. It provokes users with an irritating laugh until they pound it into submission.



    If hauling off and hitting a helpless robot sounds as if it might encourage our sadistic tendencies, Luria says it’s just the opposite. In a paper describing the team’s research, which was presented May 5 at a human computer interaction conference in Glasgow, Scotland, she and her co-authors cite research linking expressions of anger to higher pain tolerance and better responses to being wronged.

    ... But Patrick Markey, a professor of psychological and brain sciences at Villanova University, isn't so sure. In an email to NBC News MACH, he called catharsis an outdated concept, adding that beating up a robot might make us feel more angry, not less.

    https://www.nbcnews.com/mach/science...-s-ncna1005166
    Gassho, J

    STLah
    Last edited by Jundo; 05-14-2019 at 02:03 AM.
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  38. #88
    Treeleaf Unsui Geika's Avatar
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    I really like Grand Theft Auto and I also love movies like "Goodfellas," "John Wick" and "The Matrix." However, when there's violence or confrontation in my life, I feel ill. One time I tried to save a moth and ended up stepping on it after I thought it had flown away. I felt really sick about it for a couple of hours.

    I guess my point is, I see no correlation in my life between my living behavior and some of my media choices. I don't think catharsis is what I am getting from playing a violent video game, which I guess is what they warn against in the article-- the catharsis that results from releasing pent up violence, which I don't think I receive in the slightest.

    But everyone is different. There are some people I know who have talked about smashing their phones after an annoying phone call or destroying their computers after a bad round of Fortnite. Perhaps they are the kind of people who should stay away from violence as catharsis, or even those types of games.

    Gassho

    Sat today, lah
    求道芸化 Kyudo Geika
    I am just a priest-in-training, please do not take anything I say as a teaching.

  39. #89
    Hi guys,

    I love action movies with guns, explosions and martial arts. I also play videogames where there is a lot of cartoony and dumb violence. But most of the times I tend to embrace peace, minimalism and calm. I also find joy in puzzle games and slice of life anime

    But I am not a violent person at all and in my day to day I go about practicing the Dharma and teaching it to people. I guess it's how you want too relate to media violence and if you take it seriously.

    Like Gaika said, everyone is different.

    Gassho,

    Kyonin
    Sat/LAH
    Hondō Kyōnin
    奔道 協忍

  40. #90
    I identify with you, Geika and Kyonin. I also love different kinds of video games, movies and anime and have no problem with seing or playing violent ones, like the "Evangelion" anime and "Mortal Kombat" game. I also like peaceful and heart warming slice of lifes.

    But I don't identify with violence off screen. I know many people in the game and anime community in Brazil who are also like this. So I don't think there is a correlation between games, movies, anime etc. and violent behaviour.

    But beating up robots without any gaming or martial art training context is perhaps a little disturbing. There appears to be no point in it besides violence per se. With movies, animes games etc. the violence that appears is serving the plot or the objective (in case of game), which is not the case here with this robots.
    Don't know if I'm being coherent here or if my view has support on the current psychological researchs, but this is what I think.

    Gassho,
    Mateus
    Sat

  41. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by mateus.baldin View Post
    I identify with you, Geika and Kyonin. I also love different kinds of video games, movies and anime and have no problem with seing or playing violent ones, like the "Evangelion" anime and "Mortal Kombat" game. I also like peaceful and heart warming slice of lifes.

    But I don't identify with violence off screen. I know many people in the game and anime community in Brazil who are also like this. So I don't think there is a correlation between games, movies, anime etc. and violent behaviour.

    But beating up robots without any gaming or martial art training context is perhaps a little disturbing. There appears to be no point in it besides violence per se. With movies, animes games etc. the violence that appears is serving the plot or the objective (in case of game), which is not the case here with this robots.
    Don't know if I'm being coherent here or if my view has support on the current psychological researchs, but this is what I think.

    Gassho,
    Mateus
    Sat
    Hmmm. That movie and TV series "Westworld" is kind of in between violence in games and violence directed at robots. I would not be surprised if something like that becomes more than SF very soon.

    For those who may not know, Westworld involves a theme park in which people have gun battles and sword fights with hyper-realistic robot cowboys, samurai and the like. Of course, the human are supposed to always win ... until things go haywire!



    I would say that the Precepts wisely guide us not to fall into and act on anger and violence. It is less serious if we just think it than act upon it, but we are still advised against anger and violence. So, I would say that it is less serious to kill a robot than to kill an actual sentient being (assuming the robots are not sentient beings ... open to question in Westworld). However, even if it is just directed at hitting a pillow or punching the wall, one should still avoid anger and violence as much as possible.

    However, I don't think that playing a "shoot em up" video game is actually "violence" (honestly, I am not sure, but it may be no more violent than kids playing "cowboys" or chess or football. However, beating up a human shaped robot seems a different level of violence).

    Gassho, J

    STLah
    Last edited by Jundo; 05-14-2019 at 11:45 PM.
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  42. #92
    Member Getchi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jundo View Post
    Is it engaging in anger and violence even when the victim is made of silicone and chips?

    These days, we have "shoot em up" video games that are socially acceptable (I am not such a fan even of those). But how about taking it a step further, to actually acting out the violence on a humanoid object? This leaves me with an unpleasant feeling. Hmmm.



    Gassho, J

    STLah


    I laughed so hard, remembering the disgruntled talking cow from Hitchhikers Guide! https://hitchhikers.fandom.com/wiki/Ameglian_Major_Cow


    My favouritye games are the TotalWar series, whereby one commands an entire army and faction. I was uncomfortable with the level of violence i suddenly noticed (obviiously always there, racing Napoleon to the Top of the World), and became quite disturbed by it. I still play those games, but im relearning Chess and started on Go. My son is 8, and with his GrandMa right now due to hospital routines. We never let him play Fortnight, but now he has gotten good enough to be scouted for a "clan" of competitiors. Im proud of his achievment, critical of the game and very not-okay with theidea of a 8 year old playing competitive kill-games.


    TLDR; Psych consensus is that violent content in games and media does not lead to more violent patients. This is different if the imagery and emotional content is divorced from context, however. That is why we need to be careful with what we comment on as funny in front of kids. Repeating aggressive physical actions are extremly dangerous, as we simply learn to give less time to teh space between "desire" and "action". Che Boddhis.
    Nothing to do? Why not Sit?

  43. #93
    Jundo, you could state better what I wanted to say. Thank you.

    Thank you, Getchi, for the explanation of the scientific consensus on the topic.

    Gassho,
    Mateus
    Sat today

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