Thoughts and not thoughts…

[Ongen]

Wow!
Gassho

Ongen / Vincent
Sat today


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Daitetsu]

Hi there,

I think it was Taigu who said something like "When you sit throw yourself away."
This has always been helpful for me when I had a very busy mind during zazen.
For me Shikantaza could be called the art of letting go without getting lost. "Just Sitting" does not imply daydreaming is OK. (Although it is in a way, as everything is OK. And yet not.)

Too many words...

Gassho,

Daitetsu

#sat2day

[Jinyo]

Thanks Jundo...I guess I am at the same time overwhelmed with those teachings from my past. The Suttas, Anapanasati and the Satipattana Sutta...the four foundations of Mindfulness and so on. It feels like in order to follow the path of Zazen (Shikantaza) I'd have to turn away and somehow divorce myself from them.

Tony, I hope you can find some peace with this soon. I have not studied - practiced these other teachings as you have - but I would hope some degree of integration
is possible ? Are they not all rivers and tributaries flowing from the same source?

Gassho

Willow

sat today

[Jishin]

Do you think that some of us struggle (newbies to Zen and particularly Dogen) with the differences between what is commonly seen as a progression towards liberation and that which seems to be a radical acceptance of things just as they are?

To date I have seen reality in terms of there being suffering and a wish to attain a state free from suffering. The reason I suffer is because I still see myself as a separate entity..non-empty if you like.

How can I alleviate this suffering? By experiencing, understanding…which ever way you dress it to see through the illusion of separateness for good.

It’s just how this is brought about, seen or experienced (again pick one) by accepting things as they are ie. Suffering. Merely accepting this suffering might bring about a perfected state of attrition were I am anaesthetised to suffering – but this is not the same as becoming free from it (IMO).

Hi Tony,

There is a lot of psychology in zen and I can get very analytical with the teachings particularly since I have been chief resident in neuropsychiary, clinical assistant professor in neuropsychiary, board certified in psychiatry and have been in private practice for a day or two. I like the KISS (keep it simple stupid) principle. It helps to keep me focused on the important stuff like the zafu in front of me, my family and a sentient being or two if there is energy left. So, be smart and just sit? All questions are answered in due time.

Gassho, Jishin, _/st\_

[Mp]

All questions are answered in due time.

Yes!

Gassho
Shingen

Sat today

[Ishin]

Thank you, Lisa, for the quote from Master Ejo's Komyozo ...



Yes.

Is Shikantaza "about thoughts"? Is Shikantaza "not about thoughts"? I don't know or care. I simply sit, not grabbing onto thoughts nor chasing them away, "paying no never mind". A light of clarity then shines through both thoughts or silence, the mirror holds all of life in wholeness without resistance.

This "Just Sitting" is anything but "sitting doing nothing", because one realizes this "in the doing, no thing that is each and every thing". It is not "whatever happens is fine" because, sitting in the radical allowing of "no need to change things, all just what it is", the delusions drop away and thus ignorance changes to Wisdom. Everything changes. All Is Just What It Is, which ain't what it seemed before.

Gassho, J

SatToday!

This is brilliant in it's simplicity.
Deep Bows

Gassho

C/Ishin
Sat Today!

[dharmasponge]

Hopefully Willow.

Jishin, I too am a practicing psychological therapist - CBT and Solution Focused Therapy. Maybe that has something to do with me at once being seduced and infuriated by Dogen/Shikantaza

Sat Today

[michaeljc]

Barry Magid wrote:
Joko [Beck] used to say that it takes people many, many years to find out what practice really is, and when they get to that point, most of them quit, because that’s when they really find out that it’s not about fulfilling my curative fantasy but of really giving up that fantasy. That’s the point where most people go across town to the some other guru in order to revive the pursuit of whatever kind of permanent inner state that they’re trying to create for themselves. So for Joko, there was always this sense that we’re not so much cultivating a particular state, as constantly subtracting, constantly moving away from the desire to claim control or hold on to any particular thing, including any inner states.

Zen acknowledges the ordinary, every-day. Shikantaza observes it. Zazen creates a new appreciation of it.

That is all.

As I see it right now

m

Sat 2-day

[dharmasponge]

Please understand that I am just trying hard to establish that what I am doing is Shikantaza and NOT sitting on my arse facing a wall…I think I know the difference J

…by ‘Just Sitting’ are we aware that we’re just sitting or is that going too far.

I sat this morning and I became aware of the process of sitting in a way that felt like everything was happening arouond me – there was a sort of calm amidst the storm of the birds tweeting and the leaves in the tress – in fact the more noise the better it seemed. I heard the boiler come on and that made that inner calm more palpable. I felt body awareness fall away and just sat in that wider peripheral inner space………

….Zoning out or Shikantaza?

Sat Today

[michaeljc]

NOTHING is superfluous. This is a realisation that can only come through Zazen (according to my experience) Trust in Zazen. Let it do its job.

Frustration can be a useful part of Zazen

Cheers

m

Sat 2-day

Edit: Why not just sit on your arse and face the wall? "I'm a fuck-wit" "I don't know what I am doing" are wonderful attitudes on which to sit.

[dharmasponge]

"I'm a fuck-wit" "I don't know what I am doing"

Yup! Every time I sit in Zazen...

[michaeljc]

dharma - According to my observation there is no consensus on what constitutes Shikantaza. Some try to define it, many don't. If it should mean 'following the moment' we can get a taste of this by 'just listen'. This is not easy to sustain. I am still not convinced that it is a method, but rather a product of Zazen. I don't think that we need to concern ourselves over this. Given a chance Zazen takes us to where it want's to go, not where we may wish or expect. This is the wonderful thing about this practice. It is an adventure.

As I see it right now

m

Just sat

[dharmasponge]

Maybe it's trust and faith that I need?

[Kokuu]

Maybe it's trust and faith that I need?

Trust and faith may well be worth a go, Tony. Instead of analysing your sitting, just trust you are doing fine and let go of worrying about it. Have faith that Dogen, Nishijima, Jundo and many more Zen folk know what they are talking about when it comes to sitting.

Shikantaza is more like a wander in the woods than following a map but you won't get lost - you are always right where you need to be.

I would guess your professional training has taught you to analyse and you are probably very good at that. Now it might be time to see if you can let go of that for a little while!

Gassho
Kokuu
#sattoday

[dharmasponge]

I like that Kokuu thanks....

[shikantazen]

I sat the below way for a few months and really liked it. "Simply sitting, non-doing, allowing everything; "whatever happens is ok" kind of attitude. I don't explicitly have a goal to keep waking up from thoughts but when it happens it is fine. The only rule is this: I don't sit there and purposefully try to think about something. Other than that understanding, I have nothing else to do with thoughts (or waking up from them). Yet despite this, in practice I found I was waking up from thought quite a number of times"

I don't like (for lack of a better word) adding a rule that we need to keep waking up from thought. Just to clarify, I do wake up from thought (by myself) when I simply sit too; quite frequently in fact. I just don’t like it as an explicit rule or it being part of the instruction for Zazen. That one instruction kills the entire beauty of shikantaza for me. If I have to strictly follow a technique/method (like waking up from thought), my mind is only busy doing that and it becomes like any other regular method ("opening the hand of thought" method or breath following). The "sitting as wholeness" will then become just a conceptual overlay; I am anyway sitting in wholeness, of what use is it to make it explicit? Why is that even needed? Why not simply wake up from thoughts as described in "Opening the hand of thought"? Or keep returning using an object (breath/sounds/palm)?

Gassho,
Sam
Sat Today

[michaeljc]

Sam - that is pretty much my approach too. As my (40 m) sits progress things slow down of their own accord. Often I find myself following breath quiet naturally. I have never felt the need to force this. Nevertheless, I don't discount the more proactive approaches of relentlessly refocusing on a point/subject such as a koan. Breath practice, be it so simple, definitely has real promise too. Whatever, I feel that the 'just sit' approach is most appropriate for beginners. Many of us may not need do anything else.

I do have a few personal tricks I play on occasions involving enforced focus. One is a koan. I don't need to delve too deep before I break into shudders. Sitting light eliminates this.

Courses for horses IMO

Cheers

m

Will sit tonight

[dharmasponge]

Thanks both...but neither sounds like Jundos descriptions of Shikantaza. Particularly breath practice (Anapanasati?).

[michaeljc]

but neither sounds like Jundos descriptions of Shikantaza

I am sure that it isn't

I have never claimed to practice Shikantaza -or any other method. I practice Zazen.

m

Sat 2-day

[dharmasponge]

I am sure that it isn't

I have never claimed to practice Shikantaza -or any other method. I practice Zazen.

m

Sat 2-day

Alrighty...now I am more confused - Zazen not synonymous with Shikantaza? I know Koan/Huatou are specifically different but I wasn't aware that Treeleaf had different Zazen practices.

[Kokuu]

Tony,

Zazen is, to the best of my knowledge, a generic term referring to meditation in Zen traditions. At Treeleaf, zazen = shikantaza. Other traditions vary.

Even in Sōtō Zen there are forms of zazen associated with breathing awareness. In Rinzai Zen, zazen tends to refer to either breath awareness or koan practice.

Bringing other forms of zazen into a discussion of shikantaza is probably confusing to many, although I am sure it was not meant in that way.

Gassho
Kokuu
#sattoday

[dharmasponge]

Tony,

Zazen is, to the best of my knowledge, a generic term referring to meditation in Zen traditions. At Treeleaf, zazen = shikantaza. Other traditions vary.

Even in Sōtō Zen there are forms of zazen associated with breathing awareness. In Rinzai Zen, zazen tends to refer to either breath awareness or koan practice.

Bringing other forms of zazen into a discussion of shikantaza is probably confusing to many, although I am sure it was not meant in that way.

Gassho
Kokuu
#sattoday

Ah, see thats me with me black and white thinking again!

Sat Today

[Nameless]

Yes, it seems zazen usually refers to Shikantaza when we Soto Zennies say it. Though it could meam different things depending on your practice I guess. On another note, seems there are a lot of psychologists here. Be done with the undergrad program for psychology in June. Coincidence that so many who are interested in the mind are drawn to Zen?

Gassho, John
Sat today

[Kokuu]

Tony, I don't think it is your fault. Here people tend to use zazen and shikantaza interchangably as that is the Treeleaf practice.

Gassho
K

[Jishin]

Ah, see thats me with me black and white thinking again!

Sat Today

As the mountain sits, clouds come and go.
As the clouds sit, mountains come and go.
Sometimes I am the mountain sitting.
Sometimes I am the clouds sitting.
Sometimes I am both or neither.

I been told to not judge my Zazen and just sit.

How about a pint at the local pub after just sitting Tony? Cheers!

Gassho, Jishin, _/st\_

[Jinyo]

Tony, I don't think it is your fault. Here people tend to use zazen and shikantaza interchangably as that is the Treeleaf practice.

Gassho
K

Definitely not your fault Tony - after three years here I hadn't quite grasped that zazen incorporates other modes of meditation .

Probably some inattention on my part.

Thanks for the clarification Kokuu

Gassho

Willow

Sat today

[Jundo]

Here is why, in no uncertain terms, "Just Sitting" is the short road to Buddha.

Simply, the Buddha spoke of suffering and delusion as embodied in human greed, anger and deluded, divisive thinking.

Greed, anger and divisive thinking all arise from human desire for circumstances to be different: We become greedy for something when we feel lack, we become angry that something does not go as we want, we are filled with "us against the world" divisive thoughts.

Sitting in the "nothing lacking" wholeness, "just as it is" dropping of the "me versus the rest of life" frictions, the self-fulfilling one-thing-to-do that is Shikantaza. sitting radically free of all desire for change, thus causes all Dukkha to resolve and wash away. There is thus no greed as there is no felt lack, no anger as no felt lack, no divisions for no felt lack.

Yes, sometimes making progress on the road to Buddha happens just by being very still and opening one's eyes. Just because we sit with "nothing to gain" don't mean we don't gain a treasure by giving up the hunger for gain!

Tony said ...

I sat this morning and I became aware of the process of sitting in a way that felt like everything was happening around me – there was a sort of calm amidst the storm of the birds tweeting and the leaves in the tress – in fact the more noise the better it seemed. I heard the boiler come on and that made that inner calm more palpable. I felt body awareness fall away and just sat in that wider peripheral inner space………

This sounds like lovely Shikantaza. Wonderful!

Just know, of course, that we also consider it "lovely Shikantaza" even when things don't feel so calm and peaceful. In the total acceptance of Shikantaza (as the Xin Xin Ming declares, "The Great Way is not difficult for those who have no preferences"), even not so centered and peaceful Shikantaza is part of the trip, also "lovely Shikantaza". Nonetheless, the calm and centered times like you describe are precious. It is rather like saying that the sun is always present on both sunny days and cloudy. We must learn to know the sun which shines both through clear and cloudy. The sun that only shines on sunny days is not so powerful as the sun seen to shine right through even the darkest!

Michael said ...

dharma - According to my observation there is no consensus on what constitutes Shikantaza.

There are as many teachers trying to express Zazen in their personal way as there are chefs showing how to make chicken soup. Some ways are tastier and more nutritious than others.

Nevertheless, I don't discount the more proactive approaches of relentlessly refocusing on a point/subject such as a koan. Breath practice, be it so simple, definitely has real promise too. Whatever, I feel that the 'just sit' approach is most appropriate for beginners.

I see things quite to the contrary. The most advanced practice perhaps is to put down the targets and crutches ... the breath, the Koans, the mantras, the running after and chasing one's tail ... all to radically Just Sit. If someone thinks "just sitting" is for beginners then they do not get what is radical, in the marrow "Just Sitting"!

Sam said ...

I sat the below way for a few months and really liked it. "Simply sitting, non-doing, allowing everything; "whatever happens is ok" kind of attitude. I don't explicitly have a goal to keep waking up from thoughts but when it happens it is fine. The only rule is this: I don't sit there and purposefully try to think about something. Other than that understanding, I have nothing else to do with thoughts (or waking up from them). Yet despite this, in practice I found I was waking up from thought quite a number of times"

This strikes me as a lovely way to sit. However, I will emphasize again that one must sit, radically and to the marrow, tasting Zazen as a the one act to do and one place to be in the whole universe in that moment, a sacred act, Buddha sitting. Why?

Simply, for the reason I described above: We rarely if ever encounter life in such way, resulting in feelings of lack, disappointment, wishing for "something else" and the ignorance which accompanies that.

I cannot emphasize this enough and, unfortunately, I think many modern Shikantaza teachers do not underline this aspect sufficiently. In fact, all of Dogen's writings may be seen as page after page of description of Zazen and all daily actions as sacred acts.

I don't like (for lack of a better word) adding a rule that we need to keep waking up from thought. Just to clarify, I do wake up from thought (by myself) when I simply sit too; quite frequently in fact. I just don’t like it as an explicit rule or it being part of the instruction for Zazen. That one instruction kills the entire beauty of shikantaza for me. ... The "sitting as wholeness" will then become just a conceptual overlay; I am anyway sitting in wholeness, of what use is it to make it explicit? Why is that even needed? Why not simply wake up from thoughts as described in "Opening the hand of thought"? Or keep returning using an object (breath/sounds/palm)?

Get over it. If you are bothered, it is you bothering yourself. Nothing kills the beauty unless your small self's judgments pull the trigger. It is vital to sit Zazen as a sacred doing. I mean, Dogen was not prone to understatement about this ... as here in Shobogenzo Zazenshin

Know this, that it is the seated buddha that buddha after buddha and ancestor after ancestor have taken as their essential function. Those who are buddhas and ancestors have employed this essential function, while those who are not have never even dreamt of it. To say that the buddha dharma has been transmitted from the Western Heavens to the Eastern Earth implies the transmission of the seated buddha, for it is the essential function. And where the buddha dharma is not transmitted, neither is seated meditation. What has been inherited by successor after successor [in this transmission] is just this essential message of seated meditation; one who does not participate in the single transmission of this essential message is not a buddha or an ancestor. When one is not clear about this one dharma, one is not clear about the ten thousand dharmas, not clear about the ten thousand practices. And without being clear about each dharma, one cannot be said to have a clear eye. One has not attained the way; how could he represent the present or past [in the lineage] of the buddhas and ancestors? By this, then, we should be firmly convinced that the buddhas and ancestors always singly transmit seated meditation.

Gassho, Jundo

Ps - If I am not around, just listen to Kokuu. He seems to have a real knack for explaining these things recently.

[Ishin]

Here is why, in no uncertain terms, "Just Sitting" is the short road to Buddha.

This is gonna be good!!!


And it was, I just want to express that there seems something odd to me with the phrase "ruins the entire beauty of Shikantaza for me" Though we do sit AS a sacred act; isn't this kind of preference for how Shikantaza should be, the very thing that we are attempting to be liberated from?


Gassho
Ishin

Sat Today

[Anshu Bryson]

"Leave your front door and your back door open.
Allow your thoughts to come and go.
Just don't serve them tea..." - Shunryu Suzuki

[shikantazen]

I just want to express that there seems something odd to me with the phrase "ruins the entire beauty of Shikantaza for me" Though we do sit AS a sacred act; isn't this kind of preference for how Shikantaza should be, the very thing that we are attempting to be liberated from?

For me having an instruction to wake up from thoughts, seems to be like a preference for how Shikantaza should be. Why are we okay with everything in shikantaza but not with being distracted? by the way I am not saying we should be distracted or should purposefully think something during shikantaza. We wake up when we wake up and we are okay with distraction; why isn't that enough?

Anyway too much confusion for me. I wasted past 2 years going back and forth between various methods of shikantaza as I understood them. I take the whole responsibility for my confusion and made a commitment that going forward I would be sitting with focus on an object for the next few years without jumping around.

I just wanted to make sure Lisa, ugrok and others understood what Jundo is saying; it felt from their posts that they could be sitting how I sat earlier (the wrong way)

Gassho,
Sam
Sat Today

[Kokuu]

Hi Sam

It sounds like you have really got your head around shikantaza now but I wouldn't worry about how other people understand it. Just focus on your own practice. I'm sure that Jundo will correct any errors in understanding that appear on the forum.

I don't think that those two years was time wasted. You seem to have learned a lot from the process and used that to clarify what shikantaza is and is not for you. In time it may well stand you in good stead in teaching meditation to others. People who have had to struggle often make far better teachers than those who take to sitting straight away with no problems. I am really grateful to you for asking so many questions during that period as the discussions that developed greatly helped me, and I am sure others, understand shikantaza better. It is a true act of generosity to ask those kinds of questions as many other people probably have them but they are not as prepared to go public about their sitting problems.


Kokuu
#sattoday

[Byokan]

Hi Sam,

Kokuu took the words right out of my mouth, I was about to say the same thing about not wasting time. And I am also grateful for your questioning. The questions help everyone to clarify what they are thinking and doing, and help Jundo to help us too. Said it before and I will say it again, I am so grateful for this Sangha...

Gassho
Lisa
sat today

[Kyonin]

Hi guys,

I just sat today and the mind was a whirlwind. It threw a lot of memories, fantasies, plans and what not. All this while the baby upstairs cried, trucks of a nearby construction passed on the street and my cat demanded me to play ball.

At the last minutes of the session, there was this moment where it all made sense. There was no external noise, no thought tornado, no cat. There was just ONE.

Then the bell rang and I went for coffee.

And I agree with Jundo. Sitting zazen is not boring. One just bores oneself because of our own expectations and desires. If I seek for illumination or ultimate inner peace, guess what? I will only get frustrated.

Shikantaza is about sitting with what is without worrying on what others think... and even better, without worrying on what one thinks.

We just sit and that's it.

But then again, I could be totally wrong.

Gassho,

Kyonin
#SatToday

[RichardH]

Here is why, in no uncertain terms, "Just Sitting" is the short road to Buddha.

Simply, the Buddha spoke of suffering and delusion as embodied in human greed, anger and deluded, divisive thinking.

Greed, anger and divisive thinking all arise from human desire for circumstances to be different: We become greedy for something when we feel lack, we become angry that something does not go as we want, we are filled with "us against the world" divisive thoughts.

Sitting in the "nothing lacking" wholeness, "just as it is" dropping of the "me versus the rest of life" frictions, the self-fulfilling one-thing-to-do that is Shikantaza. sitting radically free of all desire for change, thus causes all Dukkha to resolve and wash away. There is thus no greed as there is no felt lack, no anger as no felt lack, no divisions for no felt lack.

Hi Jundo. I just read this to Jen over breakfast, and she says to say thank you. We are printing it off for her to take to work with her.

The beautiful straightforward Buddha way.

Gassho
Daizan

sat today

[Ernstguitar]

Thank you Kokuu,

People who have had to struggle often make far better teachers than those who take to sitting straight away with no problems.

I think it was Suzuki or so, who said:" A bad horse is better than a good horse. The bad horse works harder and longer…. the good horse dies earlier." (I hope, that this makes sense in english. I read it in german)
In my understanding it is true, that what goes easy is very often not so appreciated. And….working hard sounds like it is negative, but for me it is more evolvement.
Wonderful thread, thank you all.

Gassho
Ernst

p.s.: The more I sit, the more it makes sense what Jundo said about zazen. There is a connection between experiencing and understanding.

Sat today

[Jundo]

Just by chance (or Karma), this week's Book of Serenity Koan is a dance with this whole "Just This" don't mean "just only this", in the mirror mind "Finding" ain't by "searching" and so on.

Maybe after all the fat chewing in this thread, a Koan like so will be a touch clearer.

http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showt...NIMITY-Case-49

Gassho, J

SatToday

[Ernstguitar]

Hi Jundo,

thank you for that. Isn´t it also in the shinjinmei from Kanchi Sosan?
If you seek it, it is thousand miles away but if you stop having preferences it is here….

Gassho, Ernst
sat today

[michaeljc]

According to my experience we cannot fully convince ourselves of anything through rational deduction. I still remember exactly where I was during Zazen when the realisation came that even the worrying about not doing it right was fully part of it.

I feel that this practice is mostly about new appreciation of the very ordinary that is all around and within us. One Zen author described it as being the 'extra-ordinary'. Should we know we are to die next dawn. What are the things we treasure most? The second toe in on my left foot - when did I last consider what a wonderful job it has done throughout my life?

Some crazy thoughts

m

Sat 2-day

[Meikyo]

Hi.

For me it's good to remember that we can't really "fail" at Shikantaza as such. But in fact not being able to figure it out entirely while still in the dualistic mindset is somewhat to be expected I think. We are trying to unlearn and radically drop a lifetime of conditioning that is even necessary to employ in daily life sometimes still. Though we can learn to use it as a tool rather than being bound by it. So by Just Sitting radically our mundane worldview comes crashing down. It's not surprising that until the dust has settled and one can Wholly behind everything it can be a little messy. Rather like spring cleaning. At the halfway point it can easily look worse than when you started. But you just have to keep on cleaning. Trust the broom.

I hope you see what I mean. I could of course be totally wrong.

Gassho
Meikyo
#SAT TODAY!

[semc]

And I agree with Jundo. Sitting zazen is not boring. One just bores oneself because of our own expectations and desires. If I seek for illumination or ultimate inner peace, guess what? I will only get frustrated.

Shikantaza is about sitting with what is without worrying on what others think... and even better, without worrying on what one thinks.

We just sit and that's it.

Here, here.
I certainly don't find it boring; in fact, I look forward to sitting. I enjoy the 'nothing'. It's the one little part of my day where they are no goals, no expectations, nothing to achieve. It is what it is.
I don't always find it easy; some thoughts are more intrusive than others, my brain has this annoying tendency to remember completely inane memories from 10+ years ago that have zero relevance to anything going on in my life right now. And sometimes my cat attacks me when i'm sitting. That is a distraction. Often painful.

Gassho
Sarah
::SatToday

[michaeljc]

Here, here.
I certainly don't find it boring; in fact, I look forward to sitting. I enjoy the 'nothing'. It's the one little part of my day where they are no goals, no expectations, nothing to achieve. It is what it is.
I don't always find it easy; some thoughts are more intrusive than others, my brain has this annoying tendency to remember completely inane memories from 10+ years ago that have zero relevance to anything going on in my life right now. And sometimes my cat attacks me when i'm sitting. That is a distraction. Often painful.

Gassho
Sarah
::SatToday

Sarah - In my view the re-surfacing of old memories is a positive sign. If these are what I think they are, they will be a distinct feeling associated with memories that we have not felt for a very long time and had forgotten. Zazen is carrying us. Look into these feelings.

As I see it right now

m

Sat 2-day

[Myosha]

Hello,

Question:

How can you be bored doing something for the first time ; every time?


Gassho,
Myosha sat today

[dharmasponge]

I look forward to sitting too. I do however sometimes think "what on earth are you doing.....I mean seriously go back to bed..."!!



Sat today

[Kyonin]

Sarah - In my view the re-surfacing of old memories is a positive sign.

Hmm... it's nothing special, really.

Just sit and drop it all.

Gassho,

Kyonin
#SatToday

[Jakugan]

Hi guys,

I just sat today and the mind was a whirlwind. It threw a lot of memories, fantasies, plans and what not. All this while the baby upstairs cried, trucks of a nearby construction passed on the street and my cat demanded me to play ball.

At the last minutes of the session, there was this moment where it all made sense. There was no external noise, no thought tornado, no cat. There was just ONE.

Then the bell rang and I went for coffee.

And I agree with Jundo. Sitting zazen is not boring. One just bores oneself because of our own expectations and desires. If I seek for illumination or ultimate inner peace, guess what? I will only get frustrated.

Shikantaza is about sitting with what is without worrying on what others think... and even better, without worrying on what one thinks.

We just sit and that's it.

But then again, I could be totally wrong.

Gassho,

Kyonin
#SatToday

That last part hits the nail on the head for me. Sometimes I catch myself sitting down with the expectation that I have to experience something really mystical when I'm on the cushion, only to be frustrated by all these pesky thoughts that keep getting in the way!

Gassho,

Simon

Sat today.

[Rich]

Be content with just sitting. You can't solve the mystery with your thinking mind.

[Rich]

Sat today

[michaeljc]

Hmm... it's nothing special, really.

Just sit and drop it all.

Gassho,

Kyonin
#SatToday

The emotion associated with such memories is what is occurring at that point in time. Why ‘drop it’? This suggests that it is something to be abandoned i.e. an undesirable diversion. I feel more comfortable with immersing into it. Nothing is superfluous.

Sharing – not lecturing

M

Sat 2-day

[Jundo]

The emotion associated with such memories is what is occurring at that point in time. Why ‘drop it’? This suggests that it is something to be abandoned i.e. an undesirable diversion. I feel more comfortable with immersing into it.

Sharing – not lecturing

M

Sat 2-day

If I had to describe my approach (if forced to the wall) to strong emotions, old painful memories and such which arise in Zazen, it would be that I allow, neither running toward or away. I do not grab on or stir up. Certainly, I do not wallow. If caught in a true howling storm of grief, anger, fear or the like (it sometimes happens to all of us), I breath through until the hurricane settles to a small rain or clear sky. If we wallow and ponder, it is like pouring gasoline ... and the small fire turns into a great burning.

Zazen is not psychanalysis, and the point is not to delve into old memories.

Now, that being said, there may be times when ... off the cushion, or even for a moment on the cushion ... one might look at the memory. I will give you one example: Once I was sitting Zazen and, out of the blue, a memory from 40 years before surfaced of what was likely a male baby sitter trying to get me to touch him sexually when I was about 6 or 7 years old. I had not thought about it in years and years, although sure it happened. It was the first time I realized that his "play" was attempted child abuse, and it was a shock. After a moment though, I offered Metta for the Sitter very briefly, and returned to sitting. Wisdom and Compassion seemed to put the incident in proper perspective.

Later, rising from the cushion, it may be fine to ponder such memories. However, even then, I advise bringing the Wisdom, Compassion and Equanimity of Zazen into one's 'after hours' pondering and reflecting too. It tends to show these things in a different light. That is so, not just for passing memories, but even for our deepest, most painful scars in life.

Gassho, J

SatToday

[michaeljc]

Thank you Jundo

This phenomena of old memories and the associated unique emotional feelings popping up has been very common within my sitting from time to time. I have found that by lightly immersing into the emotion they dissolve. These are not usually associated with traumatic events. They have their very own (often pleasant) aroma that were long forgotten. I don't make big of them. They come, I look, they go.

This Zazen is a very powerful practice, as I find it

m

Sat-a-moment-ago