Proposal for Sangha Discussion: "SAT TODAY!" - Sitting Before Talking

[Oheso]

This Community is about sitting. If someone is not willing to sit, then I am not willing to chit-chat.

not protesting, not disagreeing or denying your right to run the place according to your wishes, but there seems a definite change of tone here. trying to understand and trying to understand how your concern here is actually being addressed with the new posting requirement.

gassho, O, who sat today, and yesterday and yes, what a pity to say so!

[Ongen]

It's a good idea to try out. Not sure if it would work the way you intend.

Personally I sit morning and evening when I can, but I will continue to post even when I wasn't able to sit before posting, like today

Gassho

Vincent

#WillSitTonight


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Jundo]

not protesting, not disagreeing or denying your right to run the place according to your wishes, but there seems a definite change of tone here. trying to understand and trying to understand how your concern here is actually being addressed with the new posting requirement.

gassho, O, who sat today, and yesterday and yes, what a pity to say so!

Hi Oheso,

It has actually been the way of this place since the start ... sitting first and foremost. Talk only in furtherance of that.

I just think this is a positive way to support each other.

However, I also want to be a bit strict about it. Sit ... then shoot the shi ... breeze.

I wasn't able to sit before posting, like today

I think it means within the past day, not literally today.

Anyway, the purpose of this is to be mutually supportive and show the team spirit ... but also a bit strict too.

Gassho, J

[RichardH]

My reply to an anticipated response: Yes we're a community that focuses on actual Practice and and participation. But Practice is many things. And the focus of Practice is people. We should not force them by peer pressure or them or bar them from speaking their mind. Even if they don't behave as we think they ought to!

But it is the teacher's business if I have been sitting or not. No practice center says practice is whatever I feel like. Usually it is pretty definite, and in one case I had it reinforced with shrieks. A sitting tag is a reminder, and not heavy handed. The teacher here is not overbearing or a threat to independence or individuality.

Also... this is an online sangha that makes use of a message board. The internet has plenty of Buddhist message boards where people talk and may never sit at all, just read and think about it, maybe think it's figurable and that they've figured it. Maybe think they've figured it and are gonna tell everyone. Having a tag on this message board can be reminder that this is not about that.

Just some thoughts

Gassho
Daizan



ps. later gonna set up the auto- sat today- since I have to sit every day or else i'm insane.

[Anshu Bryson]

But it is the teacher's business if I have been sitting or not. No practice center says practice is whatever I feel like. Usually it is pretty definite, and in one case I had it reinforced with shrieks. A sitting tag is a reminder, and not heavy handed. The teacher here is not overbearing or a threat to independence or individuality.

Also... this is an online sangha that makes use of a message board. The internet has plenty of Buddhist message boards where people talk and may never sit at all, just read and think about it, maybe think it's figurable and that they've figured it. Maybe think they've figured it and are gonna tell everyone. Having a tag on this message board can be reminder that this is not about that.

Just some thoughts

Gassho
Daizan

"What Daizan said"...

Gassho,

Bryson

Just sat...

[Myoku]

Truly, I not feel this is a great idea, I'm sorry. I think we should just not talk so much. point. Jundo already have a reminder up every now and then that we should not chit chat. I think we should just DO that (or in this case NON-DO the talking/posting) consequently. However, if it should be it should be ...
Gassho
Myoku (sat today)

[Meishin]

Hi,

One ritual I appreciated in the sangha where I previously practiced was "kentan." Each morning we faced the wall and the Roshi walked behind us. As he reached us, we raised our hands in gassho. For me it meant that I was fully present. This preceded all else, certainly any discussion that would have followed zazen. I realize this is not the same as what we are discussing but perhaps it is similar. To me Jundo's suggestion is that before the philosophical discussions, before the interesting tidbits or even the complaints, we acknowledge why we are here. Just my opinion.

Gassho
John sat today

[Mp]

But it is the teacher's business if I have been sitting or not. No practice center says practice is whatever I feel like. Usually it is pretty definite, and in one case I had it reinforced with shrieks. A sitting tag is a reminder, and not heavy handed. The teacher here is not overbearing or a threat to independence or individuality.

Also... this is an online sangha that makes use of a message board. The internet has plenty of Buddhist message boards where people talk and may never sit at all, just read and think about it, maybe think it's figurable and that they've figured it. Maybe think they've figured it and are gonna tell everyone. Having a tag on this message board can be reminder that this is not about that.

Just some thoughts

Nice thoughts Daizan. =)

Gassho
Shingen

#SAT TODAY

[alan.r]

What Daizan and John said.

Gassho,
Alan
Sat today (ps: will probably forget to write this often).

[Ongen]

Haha! Daizan, I already have the 'auto sit today' installed in my daily life. It's a virus really, hard to get rid of

I am very sympathetic to this idea.

Gassho

Vincent

#SatToday


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[Byokan]

Hi All,

Isn’t it interesting to see what arises as we consider this? There’s a lot of “I” here: I want to be a good student, I don’t want to be told what to do, I am a good or bad sitter, I don’t like to be compared, etc. As an exercise, it’s already got us thinking and feeling, and it’s only been a day.


Bottom line for me is, if Jundo or Taigu or the Unsui asked me to wear my shoes on the wrong feet for a day, I’d have my doubts, and I’d probably be pretty uncomfortable, but I’d give it a try, practice with it, and then report back. Maybe I’d only make it 10 minutes and say to heck with this! Maybe I’d learn something. Maybe it would be an idea that went nowhere. But I trust our teachers so I’d give it a sincere effort, if nothing else just out of respect.


After all, Jundo only asked us to try it for a month. If it turns out to be dividing or distracting or detrimental, we’ll find that out together and move on.

Gassho
Lisa

[Rich]

The whole point of studying Buddhism and reading this forum is to support you in developing a sitting practice. So sat today or sit today is just affirming for yourself and everyone else this is what we do.
#sat today

Kind regards. /\

[Risho]

Thank you Rich. I agree with that wholeheartedly.

Gassho,

Risho
(sat today)

[Daiyo]

I kept thinking about this and my very personal conclusion is that when someone goes somewhere to study something from a teacher, one doesn't get to tell the teacher how or what to teach.
If one wants to learn, and trusts the teacher, that one is supposed to do what the teacher says, as long as it is related with the study.
But I know it's easier for me because I know nothing, and do not have a lot of time of practice. So everything is new and an opportunity to learn.

It's just my opinion, anyway.


Gassho,
Walter

SAT TODAY

[Dosho]

I kept thinking about this and my very personal conclusion is that when someone goes somewhere to study something from a teacher, one doesn't get to tell the teacher how or what to teach.
If one wants to learn, and trusts the teacher, that one is supposed to do what the teacher says, as long as it is related with the study.
But I know it's easier for me because I know nothing, and do not have a lot of time of practice. So everything is new and an opportunity to learn.

Jundo has never insisted in blind obedience to the teacher as he has always said that the proof is in the pudding. We are usually asked to provide feedback (not always...he is the teacher after all) which I am grateful for. So, he has asked us to do this for one month in earnest despite any misgivings we have. I personally think this is a bad idea, but I will not grumble at being asked to try it out. I will do it and then see for myself what the results have been. I humbly suggest that we all do the same.

Gassho,
Dosho

I sat today.

[Daiyo]

Thanks Dosho.

It is good to have different opinions and the space to express them.

Gassho,
Walter.

SAT TODAY

[Kyonin]

Hi guys,

It blows my mind how this topic has provoked such a reaction.

The Sat Today tag is not about control, police people or anything of the like. It's just a way of supporting each other's practice and do what we need to do in our way: sit zazen.

Coming here to talk about life and out problems is fine. To talk about art or music is fine. Hell, I even thought of opening a video gaming and zen thread today. All topics are okay in my opinion, as long as they stay relevant to our sangha and as long as we don't forget the fact that the core of our practice is zazen.

In a brick and mortar sangha the experience is different because people sit in the same room at the same time. In Treeleaf things need to work differently because we have to be creating in what tools to implement to make it a good experience for all.

We should sit more and talk less, that's the fact. There's no sangha score card for that, nor we'll go to hell for not sitting.

The Sat Toda tag is just a way of joining the practice and a reminder. That's all.

For what it's worth, I am happy with it and I'll stick to it for as long as needed. But then again, I'm just a fool.

Gassho,

Kyonin
#SatToday

[Anshu Bryson]

From "Taking the Path of Zen", by Robert Aitken:

"Just as one must have faith in one’s guide in order to traverse an
unknown forest, so faith in the roshi is essential. This is not a
matter o f personal aggrandizement for the roshi, but a matter
of utmost importance for the student. Without that faith,
zazen becomes only a sterile practice in concentration, with no
movement toward realization and beyond. The student cannot
trust himself or herself truly to let go.
It is like the new diver on the high board. The coach says,
“Go ahead, dive off.” If the athlete trusts the coach, then
letting go , at least in that dimension, is possible. If not, then
retreat is the only option. The roshi will have foibles, like any
other human being. But faith in the roshi is not a matter of
expecting perfection."

Gassho,

Bryson

BK sat today

[Stacy]

After all, Jundo only asked us to try it for a month. If it turns out to be dividing or distracting or detrimental, we’ll find that out together and move on.

Gassho
Lisa

Hey Lisa,

That's what keeps coming to me. It makes me wonder if the testing part is not being picked up. Then again, maybe some still feel the need to sound out against regardless. I don't really understand the need in this case, but I will be understanding as I can.

Part of what makes the world beautiful is how different things and people are. So many different points of view and opinions.

You see - already it has changed my attitude. I logged onto Tree Leaf today - read the messages - went to type a reply and thought 'hang on a minute - I haven't sat today - will I make time to do this? If I've got time to type a message then I've got time to sit for 10 mins - even if I don't feel like it - even if there's resistance.'

This is similar to my own experience, Willow.

I have no interest in judging anybody else's sitting. It's only been a couple days, but I feel this has already been encouraging to me in my recent efforts to return to sitting and sitting regularly. Should this idea get tossed at the month's end, I may continue to do it regardless if I see it fit. Should someone here take that as asserting some status or flaunting, that is not my intention.

Metta to all.


Gassho,
Stacy

#SatToday

[Ugrok]

It's quite beautiful to see that nobody had the idea that people could lie about it.

I hate to be the one that did.

Gassho,

Ugrok (sat ellite)

PS : puns will deplete fast

[delphizealot]

I agree with Lisa that it's interesting to consider the various reactions here. Or, at least, my perception of the reactions. This was percolating a bit while I sat this morning, with many facets tumbling about. I expect, with time, my perception of the issue will round out.

-Dan
Sat (and percolated) today

[Stacy]

It's quite beautiful to see that nobody had the idea that people could lie about it.

I hate to be the one that did.

Gassho,

Ugrok (sat ellite)

PS : puns will deplete fast

Hello Ugrok,

Thank you for the laugh.


Gassho,
Stacy

#SatToday

[Dosho]

The Sat Today tag is not about control, police people or anything of the like. It's just a way of supporting each other's practice and do what we need to do in our way: sit zazen.

With all due respect to my brother, I can see why people would feel that it is a type of control. The mere suggestion of something like this tends to imply, rightly or wrongly, that people are not sitting enough. Thus, on a very basic level it is a type of control. That isn't necessarily a bad thing for a teacher to do and I don't think for a second that Jundo is trying to control anyone. He just wants more sit and less talk!

That said, I think it is natural and normal for adults to ask, "Why doesn't he just ask us to do that?". My personal opinion is that writing "Sat today" feels like being back in grade school, but this is only a trial folks. If it doesn't work we'll get rid of it...but a proper evaluation of this idea can only occur if we dive in head first and give it a real shot.

Thank you for listening to my ramblings.

Gassho,
Dosho

I sat today.

[Sekishi]

Thank you all for the lively discussion on this topic. I personally find it a little corny, but if it helps others with practice, I'm 110% for it. Lets see how this goes!

Thank you all.

Gassho,
Sekishi
#SatToday

[Jinyo]

With all due respect to my brother, I can see why people would feel that it is a type of control. The mere suggestion of something like this tends to imply, rightly or wrongly, that people are not sitting enough. Thus, on a very basic level it is a type of control. That isn't necessarily a bad thing for a teacher to do and I don't think for a second that Jundo is trying to control anyone. He just wants more sit and less talk!

That said, I think it is natural and normal for adults to ask, "Why doesn't he just ask us to do that?". My personal opinion is that writing "Sat today" feels like being back in grade school, but this is only a trial folks. If it doesn't work we'll get rid of it...but a proper evaluation of this idea can only occur if we dive in head first and give it a real shot.

Thank you for listening to my ramblings.

Gassho,
Dosho

I sat today.

Hi Dosho - in relation to what you express (I understand your reservations) the reason I suggested earlier in the thread the use of the symbol is because words can bring up all sorts of reactions in people.

I'm curious - would you still feel like you were back in grade school if you used a symbol instead of words? Would there be any 'I' in this expression at all?

Stacy - I feel as you do - I'd like to continue with this no matter what because it's orientated me in a positive way.

Gassho

Willow

(but no need to put after every post - just once a day I guess?)

[Risho]

Words are symbols too. They are shapes with meaning. Now we're just talking semantics. mwahhahh

Gassho,

Risho
Sat Today

[Joyo]

I feel a bit shy about posting that I "sat today" However, I look at that and ask myself why do I feel shy? It is all part of the journey, learning, growing.

Posting if we sat today is a way we can support each other, and focus on our practice. I think it's a fine idea.

Gassho,
Joyo
sat today

[Jundo]

Gassho,
Dosho

I sat today.

"Sat today". There is no "I" in sitting.

(Actually, there is no "today, tomorrow or yesterday, beginning or end" in sitting either ... but one must sit today to realize such! )

Gassho, J

Sat Today!

[Dosho]

"Sat today". There is no "I" in sitting.

Sat (which is only relative to whether there is gravity or not if you want to get picky).

Gassho,
Dosho

[Kaiku]

Actually, our next plan is to have more and more informal Hangout sittings run by all of you, in all time zones and locations. Anybody in Treeleaf can just start and schedule sittings and invite other members to drop in to sit. We can show you how.

Of course, it would be great to avoid overlap of times, but wouldn't it be great if we could cover much of the week and many many time zones with all kinds of live sittings? Anybody, if you would be interested in hosting such a group, please do!

Hi Jundo,

This is actually something I have been thinking about. I sit with Dosho's group sittings in the evening but tend to not be able to make many of Dosho's group sittings in the morning because of when my son wakes up, so I tend to sit earlier. I was thinking about asking if it would be ok to open a group sitting in the mornings when I sit to see if anyone wants to jump in.

Gassho
Bobby
Sat Today

[Jundo]

Hi Jundo,

This is actually something I have been thinking about. I sit with Dosho's group sittings in the evening but tend to not be able to make many of Dosho's group sittings in the morning because of when my son wakes up, so I tend to sit earlier. I was thinking about asking if it would be ok to open a group sitting in the mornings when I sit to see if anyone wants to jump in.

Gassho
Bobby
Sat Today

Go for it!

Gassho, Jundo

Sat Today

[Dosho]

This is actually something I have been thinking about. I sit with Dosho's group sittings in the evening but tend to not be able to make many of Dosho's group sittings in the morning because of when my son wakes up, so I tend to sit earlier. I was thinking about asking if it would be ok to open a group sitting in the mornings when I sit to see if anyone wants to jump in.

As Jundo said, go for it! There are actually two groups that sit before I do so you should see if their times match up, but if they don't please sit when you are able and see if folks can join you!

Gassho,
Dosho

The thing referred to as "me" positioned my body just so in the infinite space called time.

[Kaiku]

As Jundo said, go for it! There are actually two groups that sit before I do so you should see if their times match up, but if they don't please sit when you are able and see if folks can join you!

Gassho,
Dosho

The thing referred to as "me" positioned my body just so in the infinite space called time.

Thank you Jundo and Dosho. The time I would have the group sit in the morning would fall in between the others. It would look something like this. (The times I have listed are based on my time zone which is MST)

03:30 AM - 04:00 AM Morning Zazen, Shokai & Myoku
04:45 AM - 05:15 AM Morning Zazen, Shugen & Daizan
06:00 AM - 06:30 AM Morning Zazen, Bobby
07:00 AM - 07:30 AM Morning Zazen, Dosho

I am going to start opening a group sit that will probably begin this Monday 11/10/2014. It will be 30mins and start at 6am MST. Anyone who may want to join please feel welcome. I will do another post before the start date to confirm this is when it will begin.

Gassho
Bobby
Sat Today

[Shinzan]

_/\_ Shinzan

[Nindo]

Hi guys,

It blows my mind how this topic has provoked such a reaction.

Dear Kyonin,
the title of the thread says "Sangha Discussion", not "Unanimous Sangha Agreement". It is important that people feel OK with stating concerns or discomfort, even if 99% of the group doesn't have any. I'm sure it is not your intention to kill the discussion, but we have to be careful with such things.

Metta & bows,
Nindo

stbwaptss

[lorax]

Aloha Nindo, I am not sure where you find in Kyonin's post any intended or unintentional effect of killing the discussion. There does seem to be some division in individual perceptions of just what practice at Treeleaf involves. Some seem to look to the various venues of the forum as the Sangha's core, while others, place a higher importance on zazen and the dharma teachings. The suggestion of Jundo to sit before posting and note SAT TODAY on our signature line seems to have stimulated a discussion on the basic function of Treeleaf. Some of the posts will make us uncomfortable depending on our view, however that's great since this discussion is forcing us to examine our personal practice as well as the practice of other members of Treeleaf in ways we have not addressed before. Not sure just where this will all go but the important thing is not to take anything personally.

Take care

Jim (SAT TODAY)

[Oheso]

I keep wanting to stay out of this thread but the level of miscommunication going back and forth from all sides is really astounding to me. I just don't see how this has anything at all to do with "some division in the individual perceptions of just what practice at Treeleaf involves." I think this pertains to the solid-est point of our shared practice, our common ground and basis in the practice of zazen. we're not debating that, how could we?

what we are discussing was posted under the title "Sangha Discussion" and feelings were solicited. the ensuing reminds me a bit of a skeet-shoot. my own feelings are that nothing substantial has changed at all, but perhaps subtly and attitudinally. it just seems a little unfriendly and clique-ish. kind of stingy with the water at our water stand down by the riverside. ya gotta sit daily to get in the door of this establishment, its a level of dedication thing, Jove nods to Jove, as one of those Trancendentalists said. that's all.

mi ultima palabra, promise

gassho, O

today, I sat

[Biko]

When I read the first post from Jundo proposing this, my first reaction was mild anger. Then I let that rise, observed it and allowed it to dissipate, then examined why I felt angry. It is because I personally have an issue with authority. Or rather, the ego that I allow to take control has an issue with authority. But guess what? For two days now this rule has caused me to sit my ass down and shut the hell up and for that I am grateful. It is difficult being a solitary Zen practitioner because you only have your ego to answer to, and when we are working on the destruction of the ego and all of it's little stories, it will do everything in it's power to not be seen.If you consider Jundo your teacher, then trust him.

Sat today!

Gassho,
Jeffrey

[Dosho]

Hi Dosho - in relation to what you express (I understand your reservations) the reason I suggested earlier in the thread the use of the symbol is because words can bring up all sorts of reactions in people.

I'm curious - would you still feel like you were back in grade school if you used a symbol instead of words? Would there be any 'I' in this expression at all?

Willow,

Forgive the delay in responding as I had to give your questions some thought.

For me it doesn't really matter if it is words or a symbol. I just feel that sitting should done for its own sake and not to achieve any kind of recognition or status. We are all adults here and I'd much rather there be a dialogue about whether folks are sitting rather than something that amounts to a status update.

If over the period of a week one finds that they are posting more than they are sitting, that might indicate that one's practice is out of balance. So, the obvious step would be to talk to Jundo or one of the Unsui about the issue. And if the Unsui or Jundo feels that a particular person is not sitting enough then the concerns should be addressed to that person. To make all sangha members with very different circumstances have to use a blanket response to an issue seems disconnected and I honestly don't think it will lead folks who post too much to post any less.

I have pledged to Jundo that I will give the idea a fair trial this month and that's what I plan to do. I think it's wonderful that this has helped your practice, I really do. But I don't think it should be mandatory for everyone. We'll just see how it goes.

Gassho,
Dosho

Sat today.

[Kyonin]

Dear Kyonin,
the title of the thread says "Sangha Discussion", not "Unanimous Sangha Agreement". It is important that people feel OK with stating concerns or discomfort, even if 99% of the group doesn't have any. I'm sure it is not your intention to kill the discussion, but we have to be careful with such things.

Metta & bows,
Nindo

stbwaptss

Hi Nindo,

Indeed, it was not my intention to end the conversation. Just tried to explain there is no dark motive behind all this. At least in my point of view.

Thanks for the reminder.

Gassho,

Kyonin
#SatToday

[Jinyo]

Willow,

Forgive the delay in responding as I had to give your questions some thought.

For me it doesn't really matter if it is words or a symbol. I just feel that sitting should done for its own sake and not to achieve any kind of recognition or status. We are all adults here and I'd much rather there be a dialogue about whether folks are sitting rather than something that amounts to a status update.

If over the period of a week one finds that they are posting more than they are sitting, that might indicate that one's practice is out of balance. So, the obvious step would be to talk to Jundo or one of the Unsui about the issue. And if the Unsui or Jundo feels that a particular person is not sitting enough then the concerns should be addressed to that person. To make all sangha members with very different circumstances have to use a blanket response to an issue seems disconnected and I honestly don't think it will lead folks who post too much to post any less.

I have pledged to Jundo that I will give the idea a fair trial this month and that's what I plan to do. I think it's wonderful that this has helped your practice, I really do. But I don't think it should be mandatory for everyone. We'll just see how it goes.

Gassho,
Dosho

Sat today.

Thank you for your reply Dosho - I totally understand and respect your view.

For me - the idea was a wake up call - but I do understand that not everyone will feel that way.

I don't feel comfortable with writing 'sat today' because that does have a certain ring to it (for me) which is why I asked the question. I'm not sure why the symbol feels better to my perceptions - perhaps there's something inclusive, interconnecting and embracing about that circle - expressing what sitting is about rather than a statement of words.

Anyway - enough interpretations and words,

thank you all for your practice,

Gassho

Willow

[Byokan]

Hi All,

I keep feeling drawn back here as well. Please excuse my too many words, but I'm fascinated:

What is Jundo’s motivation in asking us to do this?
How will it change things at Treeleaf?
Will I be judged unfairly?
Will this bring an unwelcome sense of competition?
Will I lose my Sangha if I don’t sit for a while?
Will people be scared away by this?
Is it unreasonably strict?
Is there value in reading and writing without sitting?
Will people say they have sat when they haven’t?
Is it valid to monitor what the guy on the next zafu is doing?
Who has the right to ask me about my sitting?
Am I showing resistance/attachment with my response to this?
Is this supportive of practice, or destructive?


All of these questions are valid and interesting. The first and most important question though is for yourself: Did you sit today? Why or why not? Ok, that’s two questions. Have you answered them truthfully for yourself yet?


I sat today. I’m not proud of it. I’m grateful. There have been times in my life when I was too much in pain, too ill, too confused, too arrogant, too distracted, too unsure, too angry, too high, too stupid, too depressed, too caught up in the world, too far off the path to get myself onto the cushion. Always the ideal of a daily practice beckoned, and I was always inspired by those who managed to just do it. How did I know that it was possible? Because people said it, or wrote about it.


My impression, and I could be wrong, is that Jundo is looking for an acknowledgement of daily dedication to the practice - shikantaza zazen - that he is teaching. Teacher is asking if we have done our homework.

It seems kind of clumsy, but I'm willing to write “sat today” by my name to let my teacher know explicitly that I am practicing, and to let others that may be struggling see that a daily practice is possible. If/when I fall off the cushion I hope I will turn to the Sangha to discuss it, and find solace and encouragement and inspiration.

Gassho
Lisa
s@ 2day

[Anshu Bryson]

For me, there is nothing too deep about this issue. I treat this 'place' as if it were a bricks-and-mortar building. If we were 'in' a Zendo, there would be no 'not sitting'. There would only be 'sitting'. We wouldn't come to the Zendo, have a chat as we are doing here, and then go home without sitting. We would likely be sitting (and we'd be 'seen' to be sitting by our teacher), then going home. And perhaps without the chat.

I see this as a place of training. Any training requires a feedback loop in order that the teacher can gauge their students' progress. If this is the chosen method of getting that feedback, I am happy to comply. If I had to fill out a log of all of my sitting times and submit it by the first Tuesday of each month, I'd do that.

PS, I am not saying here that anyone else should feel the same way, I am just offering a perspective. Put yourself 'in' the Zendo. What would your teacher's expectation be if you were 'in the room' with him/her? What is the practice of the Sangha in that 'live' situation? What would your own expectations be of your practice?

I want to sit, I want my teacher to want me to sit, to encourage me to sit. I would expect that a teacher would require me to sit before engaging in any other activity. I don't see the difference in the 'virtual' building.

All that said, the '#sattoday' might well be a bit superficial; there may well be a better way to do this. For the moment, I am just trying to 'embrace all conditions' and keep a lid on the possible arising of any unnecessary personal Dukkha...!

Gassho,

Bryson (and yes, I did sit this morning)

[Jishin]

No need to be defensive if there is no need to be defensive.

Gassho, Jishin

Sat Today

[Joyo]

No need to be defensive if there is no need to be defensive.

Gassho, Jishin

Sat Today

Love it Jishin!! In fact, you posted this quote awhile ago and I copied and pasted it to my google + collection of Zen teachings and quotes cuz ah, I can get defensive

Gassho,
Joyo

sat today

[Jundo]

For me it doesn't really matter if it is words or a symbol. I just feel that sitting should done for its own sake and not to achieve any kind of recognition or status. We are all adults here and I'd much rather there be a dialogue about .

Hi Dosho,

I totally agree that this is not meant for achieving some kind of recognition or status.

But, first off, I have to ask what kind of "recognition or status" one gets from posting "Sat Today"? Sounds like pretty low status, even within our group. Kind of like that "Good Attendance" grade one used to get in Junior High School. Reminds me of this Dharma the Cat cartoon ...



But beyond that, you know that actually in any Zen Monastery in China or Korea or Japan there is an element of "group pressure" to schlep off to each Sitting and Ceremony? How often do you think a monk things "Well, if nobody were watching, I would stay in bed a couple more hours ... but better get into the Zendo with everyone else" Heck, there, good chance some senior monk will come hit you with a stick unless you get out of bed (save in case of illness or the like, of course). It is not only peer pressure to motivate oneself, but also the desire to help others. Tomorrow, for our Zazenkai, I have to get in the car 30 minutes earlier, drive down to downtown Tsukuba, pick up a person who wants to try Zazen, bring him back afterwards ... and get the Hangout running for all you guys who are joining me ...

Frankly, on a Saturday morning ... I would rather stay in bed.

Gassho, J

Sat Today!

[Myoku]

Hmm, there more his settles in my mind the more it feels not right to me, I'm much with Dosho in this, however it might be just me, usually I not say much about what I did or not did.
Gassho
Myoku
sat twice today, chanted heart sutra in japanese and bowed 15 times <--- all not true, just to show how it feels for me ... you get the point

[Jundo]

sat twice today, chanted heart sutra in japanese and bowed 15 times <--- all not true, just to show how it feels for me ... you get the point

Too much information!



Gassho, J

Sat Today!

PS - Another Dharma the Cat ...

[Jundo]

sat twice today, chanted heart sutra in japanese and bowed 15 times <--- all not true, just to show how it feels for me ... you get the point

Actually, my above post has a serious point:

If we were asking folks to post like this, showing in detail their effort and score, I think there would be a problem with bragging and competitiveness. e,g, ...

"I sat twice today, 50 minutes each, recited the Heart Sutra 5 times, did 1080 bows, did not have a lustful thought, beat myself with a Kyosaku stick " ...

... then we might get folks trying to show off a bit.

However, in the simplicity of "SAT TODAY!", there is no question of long sat or short, 5 minutes or 5 hours, 1 time or 10 times, or anything else. All is just "SAT TODAY!", the great equalizer.

"SAT TODAY!" holds all, and the rest of the universe too.

So, I think that "SAT TODAY!" actually prevents pride, bragging, competitiveness and such. No?

Gassho, J

SAT TODAY!

[Ryumon]

Wow, I'm surprised that this simple request is so divisive. I think Jundo is simply trying, in a subtle way, to nudge us to sit. Nothing more, nothing less.

Gassho,

Kirk

#Didn'tSitYetTodayOnMyWayOutToADoctorsAppointmentW illSitInWaitingRoom