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Thread: "Is Zen About Doing Things Slowly One At A Time?" - From Wohl Sensei and SweepingZen

  1. #1

    "Is Zen About Doing Things Slowly One At A Time?" - From Wohl Sensei and SweepingZen

    SweepingZen today has a lovely video by Seishin Wohl Sensei to a student's question ...

    I understand that we should do things slowly, deliberately, and completely, one thing at a time. But in my work environment, where I tend to get quite stressed and overwhelmed, not only by my work itself but by the energies and the dealings with my coworkers, how am I supposed to do these things? I’m a server at a large chain restaurant that can get pretty busy at times, and although I am usually able to “keep my cool” and try to focus on doing one thing at a time and keeping a short order to tasks to accomplish in the most efficient order that will not only keep my flow but the flow of the kitchen and therefore everyone else going smoothly. But, like I said, this can get extremely overwhelming and difficult, and there are days when I sometimes just want to give up. Like I said, in not only my time at work, but in other aspects of my life, I have somewhat been able to develop this sort of constant “walking meditation” so to speak. But I feel I could really use some advice for improving these techniques in the workplace. It takes a heavy toll on my mind and my spirit. Thank you for any help you could provide.
    Please watch the short video response from Wohl Sensei here ...

    http://sweepingzen.com/ask-a-zen-tea...-seishin-wohl/

    I typically say much the same on this topic ...

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    It seems to me that many people in Zen Practice have come to confuse "being present/mindful in the moment" (for example, "when drinking tea, just drink tea" ... a sometimes appropriate and lovely way to experience life) ... with "being at one with the moment" (allowing and merging with conditions of life "just as they is"). The two are not quite the same, and are often confused, and the latter is much more at the heart of this Shikantaza Path ...

    Yes, I believe that there are times to be "mindful" ... and there are times not. Sometimes when I eat, I just eat ... when I sip tea, I just sip tea ... when bowing, just bowing ... fully absorbed in that action. A wonderful, insightful practice. When doing one thing, just do one thing with all one's body-and-mind.

    At other times, I just grab a sandwich and a coke while reading the newspaper and thinking about the job I have to do. That's life too. Nothing wrong with it.

    (I do not know where the idea started among some folks that the 'goal' of this practice is to live the first way every moment of every day. That would be pretty awful (if not harmful) to live like that all or even most of the time. What's wrong with also sometimes reading the paper, thinking about work, while grabbing a quick sandwich? There is a place for all of that.)

    Further, people get even more confused about "mindful" in Buddhism because the word is used in a couple of distinct ways.

    Another, rather different meaning of "mindful" often found in Buddhism is to develop awareness of the "mind theatre" running constantly in our heads (developing the ability to identify the thoughts and emotions that play through our heads, and how they create our experience of "reality" ... e.g., "now I am temporarily sad" "now I am reacting with anger") That is a wonderful, insightful practice too ... very very important ... but I caution against thinking that you must or can do that 24/7.

    In my view, the heart of this Practice is merely "being at one" with this self-life-world just as it is ... dropping the resistance, barriers, separation between our "self" and all the circumstances in which that "self" imagines it finds itself in ... until even the walls between "self" and "life-world" (or self and itself) soften or even fully drop away ...

    So, for example, when drinking tea, just do that and fully allow that. When grabbing a sandwich while reading the paper and thinking about your annoying co-worker in the office, just do that and fully allow that (and fully allow the craziness in the newspaper and your annoying co-worker too). When your kid plops in your lap during tea drinking and the cup spills all over the table, just do and allow that. When temporarily falling into sadness or anger, just do and allow that (although remember that "mind theatre" and see if you truly need to be that way, and seek to be not that way if you can). When overwrought with life for a moment, just do that and fully allow that (remembering in the back of your mind that the clear, boundless blue sky is behind the clouds of thought and emotion even when momentarily covered over). When suffering with old age and sickness of ourself or someone we love, even death, just do that and fully allow that.

    In my view, all of the above together is truly balanced, "mindful" living. That is "being the moment".

    Gassho, Jundo
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  2. #2
    ... but I caution against thinking that you must or can do that 24/7.
    , nandi

  3. #3
    Mp
    Guest
    Thank you Jundo ... =)

    Gassho
    Shingen

  4. #4
    Thank you for this reminder. I'll try to watch the video later.
    Gassho,
    Raf

  5. #5

  6. #6
    Thanks Jundo.

    I might be overthinking, or perhaps the english language, which is not my mother language is tricking me.
    How would you define or describe "being at one"?

    Gassho,
    Walter.
    Gassho,Walter

  7. #7
    Joyo
    Guest
    Thank you Jundo, this is truly a peaceful way to live.

    Gassho,
    Joyo

  8. #8
    Thank you.

    Gassho,

    Risho

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by walter View Post
    Thanks Jundo.

    I might be overthinking, or perhaps the english language, which is not my mother language is tricking me.
    How would you define or describe "being at one"?

    Gassho,
    Walter.
    If pressed to say in a nutshell ...

    Allowing and fully embracing how things are in that moment, without resistance or wish things were otherwise.

    We might do so (in our crazy-wise Zen Way of living two ways as one) even while we resist some of those very same things and wish them otherwise, all at the same time!

    The gap, division and friction in ourself (and created by our little self) between X (how things are) and Y (how we wish they were) is a prime source of Dukkha (suffering in Buddhist meaning).

    Gassho, J

    PS -
    Quote Originally Posted by pinoybuddhist View Post
    Thank you for this reminder. I'll try to watch the video later.
    Gassho,
    Raf
    Yeah, when you have some time to pay attention!
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  10. #10
    Treeleaf Priest / Engineer Sekishi's Avatar
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    Virginia, USA
    Such an important reminder. Thank you Jundo and Wohl Sensei!
    Gassho,
    Sekishi
    Sekishi | 石志 | He/him | Better with a grain of salt, but best ignored entirely.

  11. #11
    Thank you so much for this teaching Jundo. So wonderful.


    Deep bows to you and Wohl Sensei.


    Gassho
    Bobby
    Just Sit

  12. #12
    I happened to find the written explanation in the old Antaiji arcives on "Adult Practice". There, Muho writes he is asking people at Antaiji to do work "efficiantly". Maybe this is a German thing too, but he explains along the same lines. For me, it seems very appropriate for many work environments. I am not distanced from tasks I do not like that much, while to my boss I do not look lazy as I would when doing everything really slowly. Gassho, Danny

  13. #13
    Thank you Jundo, Seishin Wohl and everyone contributing,
    I think - besides all whats being said makes much sense to me - that the "doing things slow and mindfully" is somehow to be seen as a time where we can more easily be aware of our thoughts, mind theater and maybe our resistance. I mean, just as zazen can be done on the cushion in a quite room and on the market place, while its easier to start in a silent room, thats not the only place for zazen. In the same way, I feel, being aware of ourselves, leaning about ourselves is easier in a calm, peaceful, slow situation. Hope this makes any sense
    Gassho
    Myoku

  14. #14
    Always a good reminder. Thanks, Jundo!

    I'll trot out my favorite anecdote on this topic again as well (about Korean zen teacher Seung Sahn):

    Seung Sahn would say, "When you eat, just eat. When you read the newspaper, just read the newspaper. Don't do anything other than what you are doing."

    One day a student saw him reading the newspaper while he was eating. The student asked if this did not contradict his teaching. Seung Sahn said, "When you eat and read the newspaper, just eat and read the newspaper."

    –From Essential Zen, edited by Kazuaki Tanahashi and Tensho David Schneider (HarperSanFrancisco)
    Thanks,
    Kaishin (開心, Open Heart)
    Please take this layman's words with a grain of salt.

  15. #15
    Thank you for sharing this.

    Gassho,
    -Jeff

  16. #16
    Great video and great words, Jundo. Not a function of pace, but an immersion in the activity - he says something like that. Thank you for directing us to this.

    Gassho
    Shōmon

  17. #17
    Thank you all!

    Gassho
    ~ Please remember that I am very fallible.

    Gassho
    Meikyo

  18. #18
    Kyotai
    Guest
    Thank you

    Gassho, Shawn

  19. #19
    Treeleaf Priest / Engineer Sekishi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Virginia, USA
    The crass "mantra" that sums this up for me is Hagbard Celine's "Never Whistle While You're Pissing." Do what you do fully and without reservation.

    Robert Anton Wilson anyone? Anyone?

    I'll just let myself out...

    Gassho,
    Sekishi
    Sekishi | 石志 | He/him | Better with a grain of salt, but best ignored entirely.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Sekishi View Post
    The crass "mantra" that sums this up for me is Hagbard Celine's "Never Whistle While You're Pissing." Do what you do fully and without reservation.

    Robert Anton Wilson anyone? Anyone?

    I'll just let myself out...

    Gassho,
    Sekishi
    But if you do whistle while you piss, just whistle and piss.
    Thanks,
    Kaishin (開心, Open Heart)
    Please take this layman's words with a grain of salt.

  21. #21
    Hello,

    The web of life is a beautiful and meaningless dance.
    The web of life is a process with a moving goal.
    The web of life is a perfectly finished work of art right where I am sitting now. - Robert Anton Wilson


    Gassho,
    Myosha
    "Recognize suffering, remove suffering." - Shakyamuni Buddha when asked, "Uhm . . .what?"

  22. #22
    Jundo, thank you for sharing this teaching. Now I must attend to the practice of this teaching.

    Gassho,
    Heishu


    “Blessed are the flexible, for they never get bent out of shape." Author Unknown

  23. #23
    I've been reading your teachings avidly, thus far, and I've already attempted to practice this teaching in my day to day activities. It's... quite harder then it looks to "just drink tea", because my mind wants to drink tea, contemplate the homework, think about somebody important to me, worry that I didn't change the cat litter, and run off on many other tangents about some subject irrelevant to the moment, until I'm in a thought death spiral (metaphorically speaking, of course).

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Water View Post
    I've been reading your teachings avidly, thus far, and I've already attempted to practice this teaching in my day to day activities. It's... quite harder then it looks to "just drink tea", because my mind wants to drink tea, contemplate the homework, think about somebody important to me, worry that I didn't change the cat litter, and run off on many other tangents about some subject irrelevant to the moment, until I'm in a thought death spiral (metaphorically speaking, of course).
    Yes, this is why the Practice of "When drinking tea, just drink tea" or "when changing cat box, just change cat box" is so important. It removes us from the "death spiral" (so beautifully put). It also reminds us of the sacredness and wholeness of "just this" and "just this moment". Truly, as we drink tea the tea drinkings us ... as we change the cat box, the cat box changes us (also removing a lot of poop from our heads! ) ... and the whole universe is just drinking drinks drinking, changing changing changing. Even changing the cat box is an amazing thing to be alive to do, a kind of sacred ritual when we realize such as so.

    But at other (most) times in life, just drink your tea while doing your homework.

    Gassho, J
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  25. #25

    "Is Zen About Doing Things Slowly One At A Time?" - From Wohl Sensei and Swee...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaishin View Post

    Seung Sahn would say, "When you eat, just eat. When you read the newspaper, just read the newspaper. Don't do anything other than what you are doing.

    Thanks for the quote Kaishin.I like Seung San very much.

    Gassho, Jishin
    Last edited by Jundo; 09-25-2014 at 03:07 PM.

  26. #26
    Cutting and sewing my rakusu panels yesterday I had a thought that I wanted to share that seemed relevant to this topic:


    Sewing has been humbling (as well as painful for my fingertips ), but I've found that pure mindful concentration on just a single stitch is not enough . If my mind is one-hundred percent focused on just the current stitch or laser-focused on the cutting edge of the scissors, I tend to deviate from the cutting/sewing line without realizing it.


    Being mindful of the stitch or cut, one-by-one is a very important, but the line should be kept in mind too. Keeping the line in mind is not the same as looking to finish, or hoping to be done (when is it truly done anyways?). Each stitch is timeless and without lacking, but without direction or bearing, you're going to end up sewing your pins into your seam, having unruly knots, or have crazy uneven lines.


    Following the line though has its own problems though. For me I always get a small sense of vertigo trying to line up the needle, my eye, and the line. But I've found that it is much like following through on a golf swing or baseball pitch. In a way, you just have to keep one eye on the needle and the other on the line and have faith that your needle will follow. With practice and patience it will. Following-through (or motioning towards the direction) while being mindful of the right here (the needle and hole) is a great reflection of this practice. Taking refuge in the Buddha is in many ways following through, keeping our eye on the line, having faith that we'll get to the placeless place that we're heading to.


    Silly thoughts, now I need to undo a wild curvy seam.


    Gassho,
    Jeff

  27. #27
    I'm late to this party, but I wanted to add a few thoughts:

    I understand that we should do things slowly, deliberately, and completely, one thing at a time.

    This, in my opinion, is derived from the Thich Nhat Hahn type of "mindfulness," which makes you think that you have to be a sort of automaton, fully absorbed in everything you do. I recall reading some books on Buddhism back in the early days - in the 90s - where I had this impression, and you can see these videos of TNH and his people doing their walking meditation, where it looks like they are numb to the world. (Not criticizing, here, just stating how it looks from the outside.)

    I think the later mindfulness movement has exacerbated this idea that we can only do things right if we do them slowly.

    To paraphrase Jundo, if you're Xing, just X. But that doesn't mean that you're only doing one thing; the body is a constant symphony of movement, even for the slowest, subtlest movement. You can't move without breathing; you can't breathe without your heart beating; your heart can't beat without your brain working; and so on.

    I think it's more about intention; the same way that Dogen says that the intention of zazen is enlightenment (or something like that). But even the intention to, say, eat and read the paper at the same time, is there anything wrong with that? I must disagree with those schools of Buddhism that think so. Because you can just eat and read the paper, the same as you can just eat and just read the paper. I don't think there's anything useful in making the mind a slave to forced mindfulness; it's more about learning to do things wholly, with intention, than falsely slowing things down and paying too much attention to them.

    My 2 pence...

    Gassho,

    Kirk
    流文

    I know nothing.

  28. #28
    I believe this is one of the reasons Zen originally resonated with me. Before I had ever known anything about zen I picked up this ability to just say "this is what is". I think it may have come from living on the streets when I was a teenager. You sort of get faced with the realization that if it's cold, it's cold and to survive you have to slip into a mindset that understands it wont be cold forever, but right now it is, and all the wanting it to be warm wont make it so. It doesn't mean I got comfortable with being uncomfortable, it just means I was able to accept the reality and the impermanence of a given situation.

    Coming to zen later in life I was able to realize what I had learned back then. At least that's what I think is going on. lol On any account, I don't recommend being homeless. It was often cold.

  29. #29
    Hello Reverend,

    Quote Originally Posted by Jundo View Post
    Yes, I believe that there are times to be "mindful" ... and there are times not. Sometimes when I eat, I just eat ... when I sip tea, I just sip tea ... when bowing, just bowing ... fully absorbed in that action. A wonderful, insightful practice. When doing one thing, just do one thing with all one's body-and-mind.

    At other times, I just grab a sandwich and a coke while reading the newspaper and thinking about the job I have to do. That's life too. Nothing wrong with it.
    I'm really glad you clarified this. Before coming to Treeleaf, I dabbled in mindfulness practices since it's pretty universal in Buddhism anyway (including PL), but I used to get really frustrated with myself and think I was being a really lousy Buddhist for not being more attentive all the time. I could keep it up for a bit, but like you, sometimes I was in a hurry at work and would stuff my face. Not to mention I used to work a pretty fast-paced environment where I was oncall and dealing with lots of hectic, high-severity issues. It was just impossible to keep that up. Nevertheless I punished myself for it, and looking back it was unnecessary.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jundo View Post
    Another, rather different meaning of "mindful" often found in Buddhism is to develop awareness of the "mind theatre" running constantly in our heads (developing the ability to identify the thoughts and emotions that play through our heads, and how they create our experience of "reality" ... e.g., "now I am temporarily sad" "now I am reacting with anger") That is a wonderful, insightful practice too ... very very important ... but I caution against thinking that you must or can do that 24/7.
    Indeed. This is the subject of a well-known sutra called the Satipatthana Sutta (Four Frames of Reference) found here:

    http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/thai/lee/frames.html

    But as you can see form the context, it's intended mostly for a dedicated practice time where you can sit down in meditation, etc. Still, I found it helpful when I am angry, hungry, etc, to just recognize the "mind theatre" at play. Doing that, I found the angry drifts away. It's helped when I get scolded for something, or get annoyed at someone on the street. It's a lifetime practice, that's for sure.

  30. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by kirkmc View Post
    This, in my opinion, is derived from the Thich Nhat Hahn type of "mindfulness," which makes you think that you have to be a sort of automaton, fully absorbed in everything you do. I recall reading some books on Buddhism back in the early days - in the 90s - where I had this impression, and you can see these videos of TNH and his people doing their walking meditation, where it looks like they are numb to the world. (Not criticizing, here, just stating how it looks from the outside.)
    That's a good observation. I've noticed that TNH's books tend to be often poetic (romantic in the literature sense), which I am not sure is due to translation or just his style. I could see how someone could confuse that.

  31. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by jphiled View Post
    Hello Reverend,
    Please just call me Jundo.

    But don't call me late for dinner.

    Gassho, J
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  32. #32
    Oops, no problem. :-)

    Also, I'm fairly certain I heard a rimshot in the distance somewhere. Ba-dun-dun-tssh! ;-)

  33. #33
    Nindo
    Guest
    I liked the video that the thread started with. To put myself fully into my work is something I needed to hear. I have so much resistance right now, mostly out of fear that the project I am on will go off the rails or that there are too many things I don't understand. (Well, there are, but we are a team, so it should be OK ... )

  34. #34
    Somewhat different take on moments, a reading from neuroscientist and writer David Eagleman's book "Sum" in which he imagines 40 different possible afterlifes ...

    How much time over a lifetime do we spend hunting for videos on youtube?



    Gassho, J
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  35. #35
    Thanks for the video, Jundo,

    It plays out in my head like one of the many "hells"! I'm happy with this linear-seeming quality of life for now.

    Gassho
    求道芸化 Kyūdō Geika
    I am just a priest-in-training, please do not take anything I say as a teaching.

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