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This could be a dumb question. But tonight while sitting I was watching my thoughts and trying to keep an eye on whenever I got caught up in them, and it made me wonder: what is it that gets caught up? I expect the intellectual answer is that there is just the experience of attachment but nothing doing the attaching. Which is quite a mystery.
Steve
Sat:today
It
The mind is what grasps, but there's nothing really behind the mind doing the grasping. Attachment is a habit born out of our experiences and expectations in life.
Gassho
Sat, lah
I think during zazen, and correct me if I'm wrong, (using traditional metaphors): all that's happening is the passing of thoughts and feelings like a changing sky reflecting in a body of water. Like the sky and water, existence is whole and complete with nothing to gain and nothing to lose. Cloudy or clear the sky is just the sky, the moon reflected in the water is just the moon no matter how turbulent the water. I like metaphor of "opening the hand of thought" from that Wonderful book of the same name--- attachments come and go as they please but the mind is neither grasping or rejecting.
As for what the mind is? Who knows?
Gassho,
Tom
SatLah
Hi Steve,
I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that the answer to your question lies in the question itself ("What is it that attaches to things?"). By asking the question, you're already halfway there. When you sit and notice attachment happening, can you actually locate anything that is doing the attaching? Or do you only ever find the attaching itself?
FWIW, I am still looking as well. Please let us know if you find (or don't find) anything. ;)
Gassho,
Seikan
-stlah-
I can't answer the "what", but my mind tends to fixate on what it cannot solve and doesn't let go without a fight sometimes.
Usually it's a person I'm in a difficult relationship with, a troublesome situation, or something from the past that my mind is trying to resolve.
My brain wants to fix things, solve problems. Humans are good at getting into messes (at least I seem to be!), so my brain dredges up old narratives and tries to analyze what went wrong, but it's the same old story each time.
Attaching solves nothing -- just plays the same old record on repeat. At least for me it does. When I detach and just observe my mental theater, things go better.
Sorry to run long.
Gassho, meian st lh
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I cannot recall where I've read it, I'll post the quote if I find it but it was something in the lines "it's not only about finding the thief but also about catching the stealth".
So also being aware how this attaching happens.
Gassho
Sat
Well, really, it is the sense of "myself" that the human brain creates, with all its desires and aversions, which craves things and wants more of what it finds pleasant, and less of what it fears. The sense of self is cut off from the mind's mentally created borders of all the "not myself" world. I don't feel that the answer is more mysterious than that. It holds onto or pulls after the "not myself" things that it craves.
Of course, when those borders soften or drop away, then this wonderful wholeness of 'whatever' is our Original Face. We don't seek to name or define this 'This' too much as doing so turn 'it' into another name or thing to stuff in a mental box between the ears.
By the way, Steve, don't spend too much energy in Zazen pondering such questions!
Tom, a lovely description of Zazen ...
Gassho, JQuote:
all that's happening is the passing of thoughts and feelings like a changing sky reflecting in a body of water. Like the sky and water, existence is whole and complete with nothing to gain and nothing to lose. Cloudy or clear the sky is just the sky, the moon reflected in the water is just the moon no matter how turbulent the water. I like metaphor of "opening the hand of thought" from that Wonderful book of the same name--- attachments come and go as they please but the mind is neither grasping or rejecting.
STLah
The Fictional Self; Where is the self??
(hint; click on left hand image)
Attachment 7097Attachment 7098Attachment 7097Attachment 7099
stop thinking and you disappear.
gassho, Shokai
p.s. Thought experiment from "No self, No problem" by Chris Niebaur
I believe that if one understands impermanence deeply, the concept of attachment fades away.
Gassho,
Sat today,
Guish.
Sent from my PAR-LX1M using Tapatalk
Did those Pacmen just eat the self? [morehappy]Quote:
The Fictional Self; Where is the self??
(hint; click on left hand image)
Triangle1.jpgTriangle3.jpgTriangle1.jpgTriangle2.j pg
Gassho
Kokuu
-sattoday/lah-
Seems to be that way
gassho,Shokai
stlah
:)
These are all really excellent comments. I think you're right. It's not really attaching, more leaning generally, both for and against. It's just weird that it feels as though there's something there, although I suppose that is the point.
Gassho
Steve
sat:today
“It is the great earth with the mountains and rivers, sun, moon and stars...”
“tiles, stone, and fences”
“simply the five skandhas”
“pure and simply your very mind is Buddha”
“it is all Buddhas”
- various descriptions of the mind by Dogen
This reminds me of the existentialism of Satre, Heiddeger and Jaspers, to give the short version of what they wrote entire books to say: the mind isn’t something so much that exists between the ears as it’s the relationship between us and the outside world, it exists as not us and as us at the same time.
Gassho,
Tom
SatLah
Amazing things happen when you just stop thinking.
Gassho
Dick
Sat
Let go of it, then there is, boundless ocean and limitless sky 海闊天空.
Gassho,
Koutoku
Sat
gassho1Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick
And maybe we should clarify what to "stop thinking" means lest people try to have the goal to not think altogether. From 'The Zen Master's Dance' After quoting Master Dogen “How do you think of not thinking? Beyond-thinking.” Jundo says:
Quote:
“How do you think of not thinking? Beyond-thinking.” It sounds mysterious. Let me offer my interpretation. Human beings engage in thought from morning until night. We analyze, plan, categorize, and judge. We divide the world into mental images, some of which we love, some of which we don’t. This is thinking. During zazen, thoughts continue to come and go, but we do not engage them. By not engaging them, we encounter space between and behind the thoughts where the analysis, categorization, division, and judgment stops. As I have mentioned, many traditional commentators have compared this state of mind to a clear, open, boundless sky. There is a sense of clarity, a lack of friction, a feeling of peace in our minds. This is not thinking.
gassho1Quote:
Let go of it, then there is, boundless ocean and limitless sky 海闊天空.
Gassho,
Koutoku
Sat
Gassho,
Tom
SatLah
Thank you
Gassho
Dick
Sat/lah
Over the past thirty-five years I have collected a too much excessive computer stuff. I sold hundreds of dollars in camera stuff and I am giving to recycling all excess complete stuff. I gave away five computers over 10 years and I feel lighter. I own one beautiful computer. One backup old computer and essential less expensive stuff. I feel much, and I think with the best, and my practice is good. I feel lighter.
Gassho
sat/ lah
Tai Shi
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I think it's more anout the why not the what. I agree with what others have posted. I notice if I don't sit regularly then I have a mind full of myriad things. After I've sat regularly for a few days things calm down a bit and I slowly can sit longer. I take this as time to observe my thoughts and not just ruminate on problems. My question has always been why Iam I still attached to such and such event that I didn't like from 15 years ago? Why am I upset at this current issue. Then I return to following my breath until it drops again for the moment. Wash,rinse,repeat. As others have said it is more in how we have been experiencing life before coming to Buddhism and sitting. I love questions like these personally I always learn something new.
Dave
SAT/LAHgassho1
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...b7683ec6dd.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by Shonin
This is not cluttered and shows no clutter and no windows. Shows only color.,
Gassho
sat/y lah
Tai Shi
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
gassho2
gassho1Quote:
Originally Posted by Geika