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We move to the second portion of Chapter 21, entitled "No Gaining Idea" ...
Questions:
What did you gain from reading this? :p
Seriously, has this Practice let it sink into your life how embracing "no gaining idea" actually results in great gains for our life?
How can one live life seeking gain-no-gain at once, as one?
Gassho, J
SatToday
Thank you Jundo,
I gain nothing and everything at the same time - in having an open heart and mind I am able to experience life as it is. =)
Gassho
Shingen
#justsat
Yes, pretty much what Shingen said. I'm trying to think of something smart to add, but that sums it up :encouragement:
Gassho,
Joyo
sat today
So, Joyo, you have nothing to add!Quote:
Originally Posted by Joyo
Good. Because there is nothing to gain, nothing to add, nothing to take away. :p
Lovely.
Gassho, J
SatToday
What did you gain from reading this?
This.
Seriously, has this Practice let it sink into your life how embracing "no gaining idea" actually results in great gains for our life?
Yes.
How can one live life seeking gain-no-gain at once, as one?
Walking the middle way of not one and not two at once. I don't know. I am not good with words.
Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_
I gained the idea that it is very hard to avoid contradiction, living as a human being.
I stumbled upon Treeleaf after finding that sitting was more home to me than anything.
Then I realized that even that is an agenda.
But, one has to say and do something?
I am breathing in, I am breathing out. When do I gain or lose?
Gassho,
Danny
#sattoday
In my opinion Buddhism wouldn't be worth practicing and studying without the concept of no gain. If one practices to gain something, then a separation is created. Those who are enlightened and those who aren't. Those who see reality and those who don't. Those who are right and those who are wrong. But if everything has a Buddha nature then that separation is false. If enlightenment is something to be gained then Buddhism fails to be a vehicle of compassion and becomes a means to re enforce the sense of self for selfish purposes.
Practicing with this sangha has given me a great amount of context for understanding Zen Buddhism and incorporating it into my life. But I'm finding more and more that the real meat of Buddhism is found everywhere in all things. Buddhists and non Buddhists alike have some aspect of the Dharma to express, whether they choose to call it that or not. Whether they meditate or not. Whether they are trying to be profound or not. Whether they are Buddhist, Christian, atheists, Satanist, whatever. We can learn from anyone and anytime for any reason. I find it disappointing how many self proclaimed "enlightened" guru types are out there. All sentient beings must save all sentient beings. Not enlightened sentient beings must save the un-enlightened sentient beings. That's just arrogant and silly. Who decides who's enlightened and who's not? No one can. Why should we believe anyone who makes such a claim? Zazen truly is good for nothing and there really is nothing to gain. I'm am grateful to have found this practice and will continue to do so as I go through life.
Gassho
Sat Today
Hi Byrne,
thank you for that. It is beautiful put in words, what all is about (perhaps?). I must say: "fresh and alive, what you have writen."
Gassho,
Ernst
sat today
gassho1
//This is tangential, but this concept of no-gain, is this more of a Mahayana development? Whenever I encounter Theravadan teachings, it seems very gain-oriented (progressing through Jhanas, etc). So not necessarily a Buddhist concept, but more of a Zen one?
At any rate, I definitely want to gain much from this practice: equanimity, patience, compassion, ... and certainly do. But there is no longer attachment to that desire. No desperation or craving.
These benefits flower naturally from living this practice, this "philosophy of action" (as Nishijima Roshi called it). The relative benefits from the absolute (not two!)
And when only-just-sitting, there is only-just-sitting. Nothing to be gained, no one to gain it. Good for nothing indeed!
-satToday
If you are conscious, aware; then the idea of gaining is a dream, an absurdity.
SAT today
gassho2Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaishin
I really love the idea of not gaining. What is zazen good for? Not a damned thing - everything. That's why it's so necessary to my life. I never realized how much I grasp for things, never satisfied, and that's ok -- no need to grasp for not grasping. And that's why I love zazen -- this practice just means so much.
Gassho,
Risho
-sattoday
Well, that pretty much sums it up too =)Quote:
Originally Posted by Jundo
Gassho,
Joyo
sat toda
I remain in the process of gaining the concept of no-gain.
Such is my practice.
My practice is pretty bad, but that's why I practice.
My practice is not about getting better; it's about dropping the idea of getting better.
My practice is not about attaining any goal; it's about the process of living to the best of my non-ability as a bodhisattva.
My practice is about letting go,
But I cling.
"Do i have to lose the will to live?", asks a student to Suzuki roshi. "Yes", he answered, "but without gaining the will to die".
Its in zen mind, beginners mind !
Gassho,
Ugrok
Sattoday
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