Bro. Brad Warner's comments on Online Zazen ... and my response ...

My Dharma Brother Brad Warner has expressed some personal criticism of "online Zazen" and online Sanghas ... like TREELEAF! (although he does not mention us by name)

Bro. Brad states that a camera disturbs and obstructs his Zazen.

But, frankly, "disturbance" and "obstruction " are self created thoughts, the inability to sit as "what is."

Brad, 'drop all barriers and resistance from your own thinking, and all barriers and separation drop away. Here and there, now and then, are never apart or in opposition.

True Shikantaza must not create walls and resistance of one's own mind.

My response to Brad is here:

https://youtu.be/VqNpmLviqxM

BW's criticism of the possibilities of Online Sangha is here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRn8VrkTwks

Feel free to go over to his Youtube comments section and offer you honest opinions and experiences, for good or bad, with online Zazen and Sangha. :)

Gassho, J

SatTodayLah

That's disappointing. I like a lot of Brad's work; without exaggeration, if not for his books I would not have gotten involved with Zen as a practitioner, but I stopped reading his blog and watching his videos some time ago. He seems to be, in the last couple years, spiraling into angry cynicism and devoting his time primarily to shaking his fist at the "Zen establishment" and complaining about other Zen teachers' politics. It bums me out a bit to see him decrying a thing so many of us have found so valuable.

Gassho
Nick
Satlah


Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

I always liked Brad Warner. I've read his books and binge watched his videos. He's brilliant and massively talented. Zen teacher, musician, author....But I respectfully disagree with him here. All these concerns he has here have been addressed and answered to before. As stated by Nickbo, he does seem to be the angry old crank yelling at us new fangled zen kids to get off his lawn. For somebody who's so zen he's always pissed off about something anymore.

Before I found Treeleaf I sat with a traditional physical zen center and had dokusan with the teacher. He turned out to be a fake. A phony teacher who's people was mostly concerned with how to get $300 out of me. So Treeleaf is OK for me. Although I'm pretty sure that Jundo has been secretly recording us for years!!

Gassho
Sat2day
James

It's really unfortunate that Brad Warner made this comments. I never read his books, but I have been watching his vídeos for some time and I really like some of his comments, but others, as Nick and James already said, seem to be very anti-something (though I appreciate his anti-drug use comments). I was already considering to stop watching his videos.
For someone like me, who lives far away from any Buddhist temple (zen or otherwise), the Treeleaf Sangha is my spiritual home, everywhere I am. I'm sure, thare are many people with all kinds of diferente lifes (with or without limitations) that really take Treeleaf and/or other online sanghas as spiritual home.
Really an unfortunate comment from him.
Gassho,
Mateus
Sat/LAH

Disclaimer: I have not watched the video, but after reading through this thread, I believe I understand the gist.

After having sat online for a while first, sitting physically with the sangha really felt no different at all. I noticed this very poignantly because I was expecting it to. Bro. Brad obviously feels differently, and this might be because he practiced for years in person before coming across online sittings. I understand his aversion, even though Jundo was classically trained and obviously has no problem with it. Everyone is different, but in the same way I understand his point of view, I wish he would at least empathize with mine, and not view me as any less worthy as a fellow practitioner and student of Nishijima Roshi, by proxy. Nishijima Roshi was quite radical, and I can see why Brad teaches the way he does. Though he may not agree with my opinion, I feel his is no less worthy.

As for going on his YouTube comments to politely disagree, I feel that it might, once again, look a bit like the Treeleaf "cult" taking up defenses. However, I don't have any issue with anyone saying something when they feel the need to do so. Personally, I don't in this case, preferring to let our sangha's presence and legitimacy speak for itself. We have had many excellent guest teachers who don't seem to have an issue at all. :)

Gassho, sat today, lah

Reading the above comments I will state I did not “receive” the talk similar to some of you. My sense he was responding to questions as to why “he” does not do online (other than his You Tube Videos) sits or teacher/student interactions. Both
at the beginning and again at the end I thought he stressed he was not opposed to it for others or agaiinst it. I left the talk (listened to it twice) thinking it was just not “his” thing. Now I know little about Brad, just watched a couple of his You Tube talks over the years so I may be thick headed and if he was inferring much more than what I took away what can I say? If that is the case and I totally missed his intent then I would refer to the Dude’s teaching “Yeah, well, that’s just, like, your opinion man”

As I have stated here several times over the years our online Sangha works for me! Though I do prefer talking to folks verbally online or otherwise than typing in the forum. But that is just me. Without online interactions my practice would be much less than it has been under the guidance of a virtual Jundo and the support of all of you. I know Jundo and Jishin are real because I have met them, can’t say the same about the rest of you though [claps]

My thoughts...

Gassho
Doshin
Stlah



Doshin
St

Brad mentions several times that it's ok for people who do online zen like us but just giving his reasons why he doesn't do any sort of thing like that. I think it is important to try and take in all of what a person says rather than a few points. When I watched his video a couple days ago i didnt get angry or anything because he is only referring to himself and why he doesn't and never says at any point that people who do are stupid or something. Maybe I am a little bias because I really connected with his books and of course there is stuff I disagree with. We cant all agree with everyone on every single point, the world would be boring if we did. So, I don't know. Maybe we should all just relax.

Edit: I read some of the comments and those seem to be a little more directed towards not doing online zen vs finding one in your own neighborhood. It doesn't matter much to me i feel because treeleaf has helped me quite a bit and even if I did start going to a place near me I would still be here as well. There is another teacher in the therevada tradition yuttadhammo bhikku doing the same thing and it helps people out quite a bit. Everyone has their opinions and I guess it is what it is.

Gassho,
John
Sat Today

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jgotthart

Brad mentions several times that it's ok for people who do online zen like us but just giving his reasons why he doesn't do any sort of thing like that. I think it is important to try and take in all of what a person says rather than a few points. When I watched his video a couple days ago i didnt get angry or anything because he is only referring to himself and why he doesn't and never says at any point that people who do are stupid or something. Maybe I am a little bias because I really connected with his books and of course there is stuff I disagree with. We cant all agree with everyone on every single point, the world would be boring if we did. So, I don't know. Maybe we should all just relax.

Edit: I read some of the comments and those seem to be a little more directed towards not doing online zen vs finding one in your own neighborhood. It doesn't matter much to me i feel because treeleaf has helped me quite a bit and even if I did start going to a place near me I would still be here as well. There is another teacher in the therevada tradition yuttadhammo bhikku doing the same thing and it helps people out quite a bit. Everyone has their opinions and I guess it is what it is.

Gassho,
John
Sat Today

---

I listened again, and see that he speaks about himself primarily. He also says that perhaps others may find value in online sitting. However, it seems to me that his comments then go on to rip into the weakness of online Zazen and Sangha in general, and did not strike me as a fair description of what online Sangha can be when properly approached. The talk went from why he personally does not do so to why there is something wrong with the experience in general.

I feel that it is good to offer a counterbalance to such opinions which might prejudice the views of anyone considering an online Sangha.

Gassho, J

STLah

I definitely feel that your counter balance was great and that talking about not having any obstructions to zazen is something that can never be stressed enough.

Gassho,
John
STLah

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jgotthart

I definitely feel that your counter balance was great and that talking about not having any obstructions to zazen is something that can never be stressed enough.

Gassho,
John
STLah

---

Well, I suppose that I take the subject seriously for some reason! :)

Gassho, J

STLah

Hi,

Ad hominem:

Troublemaker, antiestablishment of antiestablishment, promoting own brand, narcissist, etc.

Substance:

None. Puff.

He is just amusing. Let it go.

Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

I am thankful that an online community like TreeLeaf exists. I am grateful to be able to sit with you all each week. I can see how sitting online wouldn’t work for some people and if they have viable alternatives than I am happy for them.

Sit Zazen daily. Chop wood and carry water. Online or offline it doesn’t matter.

gassho2
Tairin
Sat today online and lah offline

I'm grateful to Treeleaf for hosting Brad for a talk a couple of years ago. I hadn't been aware of him until then, but was impressed by his talk and Q&A. The purpose of his recent YouTube video was to answer a question someone had posed to him. The questioner wanted to know if Brad would be his teacher remotely. Brad was explaining why he didn't do that. I don't know Brad personally, but I've sat with his sangha. He seems like a sincere guy (but, you know...Internet).

I was curious about the history of these dharma bros. As far as I understand, Brad and Jundo had the same teacher, but since 2007 have been in different lineages due to a disagreement about succession. http://gudoblog-e.blogspot.com/2007/...and-dogen.html. http://gudoblog-e.blogspot.com/2007/...-of-dogen.html. Both of you seem to be doing well for yourselves.

Faith-Moon
st

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FaithMoon

I'm grateful to Treeleaf for hosting Brad for a talk a couple of years ago. I hadn't been aware of him until then, but was impressed by his talk and Q&A. The purpose of his recent YouTube video was to answer a question someone had posed to him. The questioner wanted to know if Brad would be his teacher remotely. Brad was explaining why he didn't do that. I don't know Brad personally, but I've sat with his sangha. He seems like a sincere guy (but, you know...Internet).

I was curious about the history of these dharma bros. As far as I understand, Brad and Jundo had the same teacher, but since 2007 have been in different lineages due to a disagreement about succession. http://gudoblog-e.blogspot.com/2007/...and-dogen.html. http://gudoblog-e.blogspot.com/2007/...-of-dogen.html. Both of you seem to be doing well for yourselves.

Faith-Moon
st

---

Hello Faith,

Yes, in 2007, I separated Treeleaf from Dogen Sangha in part because Brad refused to institute rules to prevent teachers from sexual relationships with students. It was the time when there had been the several scandals involving Zen teachers sleeping with students or abusing the Dokusan room. Nishijima Roshi did not understand the whole situation and turned the decision over to Brad, who refused to act and even seemed to say that the victims are at fault as much as the teachers. You can read more here from Nishijima Roshi's blog and the nice and positive way I tried to phrase things ...

Announcement regarding 'TREELEAF ZENDO'
https://gudoblog-e.blogspot.com/2007...ZHdGBTTPqmF4EY

Our Treeleaf ethics code is here.
https://www.treeleaf.org/forums/show...plaint-Box-%29

Ethics codes are important, and I hope you agree Faith.

Gassho, Jundo
STLah

Anyway, my apologies. I just take this whole "online Sangha" adventure very seriously.

Soon, we will all be sitting inside shared hologram spaces anyway, as real as real can be to all the senses, so the discussion will be moot.

Quote:

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The world is virtual, this sangha is real

With Gassho before a body scanner, sitters will enter the 3-D Holographic Zen Hall from wherever they are. Instantly, a high roofed room, Manjusri Bodhisattva at its center, fills the senses and the 10 directions encircling them. Lifelike images of a hundred others who have sat that day (some hours earlier in distant time zones) occupy projected Zafus all around, and the scent of incense perfumes the air. A young priest walks through the room straightening slippers (all made of photons), guiding newcomers to their places. Biosensors in the sitter’s clothing adjust posture with a touch lightly felt at the small of the back. A teacher in far Japan, as if a few feet away, offers a talk and responds immediately to questions. Rising from Zazen, all recite as one the Bodhisattva Vows, prostrating toward Manjusri now seen hovering midair as vast as a mountain. The identical scene appears in Holospaces in every sitter’s home or private place, including for one fellow sitting zero gravity on the long voyage to Mars.

Though sounding like Isaac Asimov meets the Lotus Sutra, researchers at the holographics lab of one of Japan’s best science universities tell me it is just a matter of time now. The ‘HoloZendo’ is not a figment of the imagination, and may be available to carry in one’s pocket.

https://www.treeleaf.org/forums/show...sangha-is-real

---

Gassho, Jundo

SatTodayLAH

It sounds like Brad's reaction is based on an early attempt at online practice. Practice has evolved to accommodate the idiosyncrasies of connections via online video. Treeleaf is obviously a trailblazer here, but I'm seeing online options offered more and more. It's wonderful.

Maybe it's not for everyone. Maybe it's not for Brad. But his reaction seems incredibly close minded and un-Zenlike. (The "empty your cup" story immediately came to mind.)

Maybe Brad just misses the fart oder. He could get some practical joke spray?

Gassho. Sat today.

"Religion loses its vitality when people simply follow fixed doctrines and maintain religious institutions. Only when we seek the truth of our selves and create our own spiritual life can we give birth to the potential that can point the way for our time."

-- Kosho Uchiyama in "The Zen Teachings of Homeless Kodo"

Gassho
Meishin
STlah

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Meishin

"Religion loses its vitality when people simply follow fixed doctrines and maintain religious institutions. Only when we seek the truth of our selves and create our own spiritual life can we give birth to the potential that can point the way for our time."

-- Kosho Uchiyama in "The Zen Teachings of Homeless Kodo"

Gassho
Meishin
STlah

---

Wise words indeed, thank you Meishin. =)

Gassho
Shingen

Sat/LAH

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Meishin

"Religion loses its vitality when people simply follow fixed doctrines and maintain religious institutions. Only when we seek the truth of our selves and create our own spiritual life can we give birth to the potential that can point the way for our time."

-- Kosho Uchiyama in "The Zen Teachings of Homeless Kodo"

Gassho
Meishin
STlah

---

gassho2

Gassho, Shinshi

SaT-LaH

Quote:

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Soon, we will all be sitting inside shared hologram spaces anyway

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Ha, I've been virtual my entire life [scared]:D

Attachment 5615
Potty time will never be the same again!!

gassho, Shokai
stlah

Different folks have different views, even in the same family. At some point, we have to settle on what route we chose to take us from the base of the mountain.

SAT TODAY LAH

If it weren't for TreeLeaf and all this "online stuff" -- I would not have a sangha or a calm, welcoming community to participate with that allows me to be as I am.

I would be isolated and alone.

But I am not -- thanks to TreeLeaf's existence in cyberspace, and this forum -- that I visit often, even if I don't speak often. That's just my way. Even Zazenkai -- I watch, I don't speak. I know you are all there, and that is enough.

Thank you, TreeLeaf, for being here. And, if I am feeling brave and able to handle it, I may comment to Mr. Warner why online sanghas are so vital and real in this world.

gassho
kim
st/lh

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Meishin

"Religion loses its vitality when people simply follow fixed doctrines and maintain religious institutions. Only when we seek the truth of our selves and create our own spiritual life can we give birth to the potential that can point the way for our time."

-- Kosho Uchiyama in "The Zen Teachings of Homeless Kodo"

Gassho
Meishin
STlah

---

Thank you Meishin gassho2

Gassho
Washin
st

I think, as many have said already, that Brad was just stating his own personal dislike of online Zazen. That said, it was beautiful response and explanation of what we do here and why.

Gassho,

Neil

STLah.

I’m new to TreeLeaf and unfamiliar with Brad Warners work, so please pardon my ignorance. I only watched one of his videos on Utube.
Also, I must admit upfront that I am a dinosaur, an actual living fossil. It was only last week that I surrendered my flip phone and got a Smart one.
What this all means is that I don’t tweet, don’t use Snapchat and rarely use Facebook for that matter. I don’t normally feel comfortable putting my thoughts online, so nearly all my communication is with email or banging rocks together.
But I am not exactly a Luddite. I’ve taught computer training for years and I know that the iPhone is pure genius. I’ve just never gotten into the social end of it, although everyone around me has.
Personally, I’m very appreciative that I discovered TreeLeaf and Jundo’s work and I’ve learned a tremendous amount even in the short time I’ve been here, although I have not actually interacted or figured out how to sit while online. So I can’t say for sure how the experience will develop.
So I can relate to the strangeness or shortcomings of interacting online, although I know enough to understand that if I were “here” enough, I could interact online or anywhere else for that matter and not be distracted by it. For those comfortable with the medium I think it’s a great way to communicate.
Gassho,
Dave
I sat today.

For me; I can only say; "just this will pass too".

Br.Warner is special, not cause anyone said but because we can feel it, and I believe Jundo is completely correct in his approach too.

(if anyone cares , it hurt saying the above in cyber space space """someone ELSE might be right too""". )



Siddhartha Boddhi said ;

"it's good in the beginning,
it's good in the middle;
It's good in the end."

This is how we know its true.



Gassho,
Geoff.

SatToday
LaH.

Online? Offline?
When we sit zazen, the whole universe sits zazen.

Gassho,

Daitetsu

#sat2day

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Daitetsu

Online? Offline?
When we sit zazen, the whole universe sits zazen.

Gassho,

Daitetsu

#sat2day

---

Deep bows.

Gassho
Kim
St lh

Sent from my SM-G930U using Tapatalk

Saw this today ...

https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...09&oe=5D7678F5

Gassho, J

STLah

:D

Gassho
Byōkan
sat + lah

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jundo

Saw this today ...

https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...09&oe=5D7678F5

Gassho, J

STLah

---

[emoji1]

Gassho
Kim
stlh

Sent from my SM-G930U using Tapatalk

Gassho to all.
I haven’t been active in Treeleaf forum for many years, but I did really appreciate the opportunities to sit live in weekly zazenkai, which was beautiful. I also sat with several G+ Zazen groups until life fousted different schedules. Anyhow the live online sitting really helped me start a shikantaza practice I simply can’t stop!
Thank you Jundo and also Shokai for the teachings and inspiration.
Gassho
Heisoku
ST still!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I am very thankful for an online Sangha. I practiced without one for some time, but, it is wonderful to have a community to participate in. That being said, I also appreciate Brads stance. A difference of opinion isn't bad.

I like the use of "for me" language. In my recovery and as a part of my professional life, "for me" language is crucial.

Brad has a bunch of good talks, his books are good as well. He has a lot of knowledge to pass along. If I go to a store to buy a pair of shoes, I don't buy every size of that shoe.

Thank all of you for giving your feedback on this. I'm grateful to learn along with all of you.

Jundo- as always, thank you for maintaining this space and for teaching.

Sat Today

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ajhayes

Jundo- as always, thank you for maintaining this space and for teaching.

---

I'll second that. Thank you Jundo.

Gassho Kyotai
ST



Sent from my SM-G950W using Tapatalk

Different strokes for different folks. I've enjoyed and got a lot out of Brads books but at the end of the day, if it wasn't for Treeleaf, I would not be practising. Thank you Jundo for making that happen and allowing me to sit real time with my brothers and sister via Treeleaf Now and you all On Demand via the Zazenkai recordings. [monk]

Sat

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Seishin

Different strokes for different folks. (...) at the end of the day, if it wasn't for Treeleaf, I would not be practising. Thank you Jundo for making that happen and allowing me to sit real time with my brothers and sister via Treeleaf Now and you all On Demand via the Zazenkai recordings. [monk]

Sat

---

Gassho2
Kim
St lh

Sent from my SM-G930U using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Seishin

Different strokes for different folks. I've enjoyed and got a lot out of Brads books but at the end of the day, if it wasn't for Treeleaf, I would not be practising. Thank you Jundo for making that happen and allowing me to sit real time with my brothers and sister via Treeleaf Now and you all On Demand via the Zazenkai recordings. [monk]

Sat

---

This.

gassho2

Gassho,

Neil

StLah

It was actually through a Reddit thread of criticism for online sanghas that I found Treeleaf. So, I am happy someone posted their reply to that thread or I may have never heard of Treeleaf. I had wanted to be a part of a sangha for a long time but there isn't anything in my city or within any reasonable drive I could regularly make with my schedule. I had looked for local Buddhist meetups or groups and watched for them for years without any luck. To this day I still haven't met any other Buddhist in my city (it's not very big). If it weren't for Treeleaf I wouldn't have a sangha to participate in.

As others have said, to each his own. If an online sangha doesn't meet someone's needs then it's perfectly understandable to look elsewhere. It seems aggressive to discredit anyone's practice as somehow not real enough as I have seen some criticisms state of online practice. Criticism like that could discourage some people without access to in-person community to from practicing at all. I know this is a possibility of such criticism because I've faced it before online from general Buddhist groups on social media (mostly Facebook) I've been a part of before. I had even been told that I "couldn't be a Buddhist" without "properly" seeking refuge in person with a teacher and sangha and that I should stop and go back to "whatever culture I came from" or is "available to me" (because of karma that I was just born in the wrong place). I personally don't believe that simply location or where someone is born should determine their view of the world. It should be investigated and developed through that investigation and trial - not by zip code, and shunning anyone that participates in online community with a sangha as somehow "lesser" is enforcing that flawed and harmful principle, in my opinion.

Jundo, thank you so much for Treeleaf. /\

Gassho /\
Kendrick
SAT

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kendrick

(...)that I should stop and go back to "whatever culture I came from" or is "available to me" (because of karma that I was just born in the wrong place). I personally don't believe that simply location or where someone is born should determine their view of the world.

---

The belief that each culture has its own religion is unfortunately rather popular, but is also a stereotype (and racist, in some ways). I don't understand why people are so concerned about what religion other people choose to follow? Or through what medium (online, in-person, etc)?

I'm in an intense (and unexpected) process of trying to make peace with my ancestry and my birth religion. The same questions of legitimacy, identity, and religions come up. And the challenges of forgiveness. It's not easy.

Gassho
Kim
St lh

Sent from my SM-G930U using Tapatalk

I don't have a brick and mortar Sangha that I feel comfortable attending. Some are too far away and others I have ethical issues with. Treeleaf is available, ethical, and in my opinion an easy place to educate oneself about Zen. Even if I had a brick and mortar Sangha that I was comfortable with, I would still be coming here. I have sat with Jundo in person and I have sat with him online. Either way it's me ( not me :) ) who has to do the sitting. If you can only sit when the situation is ideal to your liking then maybe you need to do more sitting when the situation is not ideal to your liking.
As far as Mr. Brad goes, I do not feel like I need his approval for anything I do. Regardless of what he says about "for him"; what definitely is not, has not been said is any support for an online experience either. This Dogen Sangha split in 2007, but maybe some people are still carrying it. I can't help but think that differences in opinion THEN are not still filtering/ influencing differences of opinion now.

Gassho
Ishin
Sat Today Lah

I would not have found Soto Zen Buddhism without somehow stumbling across Brad's writing. I interacted with him via email a number of times and received positive advice every time, especially about alternative sitting positions for someone with spinal disabilities.
He was also adamant that I sit with a 'bricks and mortar' Sangha at least once during my Zen journey. I did. But the travel time, discomfort getting there, the nearing agony of sitting (and moving regularly) while worrying how the hell i was going to manage to get home, then riding along Australian country roads deep into the night when big bouncy critters like to jump in front of vehicles... Well you can imagine that the whole experience was less than ideal.
Don't get me wrong, the people at this very small but extraordinarily beautiful Zendo were mostly lovely and welcoming. The teacher was also very caring and nurturing, making it clear that i was very welcome and that my physical needs were in no way a problem.
I went to this Zendo for a couple of months but for one mid week Zazen sitting I found myself literally bedbound for 3 full days after - and that's not mentioning the full day rest i needed just to get there.
So there i was at home, digesting Brad's teachings, learning about Nishijima and Dogen and 'just sitting'. It made sense. Brad's language was accessible to me as an old Hardcore punk and Red and Anarchist Skinhead. His punk years mirrored mine in a small town although I suspect he was into dinosaurs while i was into developing a bit of a different kind of reputation. Aside from the odd dodgy moment i fast started seeing Brad as a teacher i was comfortable with.
Enter a video from Brad talking about online interactive stuff being somehow inferior to IRL practice. I made a comment about disabilities and was at the right place at the right time when a Treeleaf Sangha member sent me a link to here. It took a few more weeks to act on it but here i am having found my true teacher and home Sangha.

Long-winded as usual. Apologies.

Gassho
Anna

St/lah

Honestly? Sometimes I think we get a little too worked up around here about what Brad Warner thinks and feels.

Gassho

Jen

ST

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nenka

Honestly? Sometimes I think we get a little too worked up around here about what Brad Warner thinks and feels.

Gassho

Jen

ST

---

Gassho,

Shugen

Sattoday/LAH


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shokai

Ha, I've been virtual my entire life [scared]:D

Attachment 5615
Potty time will never be the same again!!

gassho, Shokai
stlah

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This is wicked brilliant. #sattoday

Sent from my SM-G610M using Tapatalk

Quote:

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Originally Posted by EnlistedHipster

I think, as many have said already, that Brad was just stating his own personal dislike of online Zazen. That said, it was beautiful response and explanation of what we do here and why.

Gassho,

Neil

STLah.

---

Well said. #sattoday

Sent from my SM-G610M using Tapatalk

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jundo

My Dharma Brother Brad Warner has expressed some personal criticism of "online Zazen" and online Sanghas ... like TREELEAF! (although he does not mention us by name)

Bro. Brad states that a camera disturbs and obstructs his Zazen.

But, frankly, "disturbance" and "obstruction " are self created thoughts, the inability to sit as "what is."

Brad, 'drop all barriers and resistance from your own thinking, and all barriers and separation drop away. Here and there, now and then, are never apart or in opposition.

True Shikantaza must not create walls and resistance of one's own mind.

My response to Brad is here:

https://youtu.be/VqNpmLviqxM

BW's criticism of the possibilities of Online Sangha is here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRn8VrkTwks

Feel free to go over to his Youtube comments section and offer you honest opinions and experiences, for good or bad, with online Zazen and Sangha. :)

Gassho, J

SatTodayLah

---

I forget... in his book were you Gummo or Jumbo?
#sattoday

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Eihei Koroku -- but I have seen this elsewhere as well:

Quote:

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"When Master Xiangyan had passed a number of years in the circle of Guishan, Guishan said, 'Other than what you remember from commentaries or have heard from the sermons of this old monk, bring me a single utterance.'
"Xiangyan looked within the commentaries, but could not find even a single utterance. He said to Guishan, 'I am unable to speak, but I ask you to say it, master.'
"Guishan said, 'I do not refuse to speak for you, except that later you would scold me.'
"Xiangyan said, 'In this present lifetime, I no longer expect to understand Zen. For its duration, I will become a monk who just serves food.' Then he held up his written commentaries and said, 'A painting of a rice cake does not satisfy hunger.' Then he burnt them all.
"Later he traveled to the site of the former hermitage of National Teacher Nanyang Huizhong and built a hut where he stayed. One day while taking a break to sweep the path, at the moment a pebble shot up and knocked against a bamboo, the great matter suddenly became clear. Then he composed a verse saying,
With one blow, subject and object vanish.
I no longer practice to solve things on my own.
In all my activities I celebrate the ancient path,
And do not fall into passivity.
"Then he bathed and dressed in formal manner, faced toward Guishan in the distance, offered incense, made prostrations, and said, 'Great Master Guishan is my excellent teacher. My gratitude to him surpasses that to my father and mother. If he had spoken for me at that time, how could I have had today’s experience?'”

-- Eihei Koroku

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If I died in bed in front of a screenful of Sangha members, to me it would be just like dying in the Dharma hall, sitting or standing.

gassho
doyu sat today and lah

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Doyū

If I died in bed in front of a screenful of Sangha members, to me it would be just like dying in the Dharma hall, sitting or standing.

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Perhaps we are all characters on the universe's screen. [monk]

Did I blow you mind? [monk]

In any case, may the day of your own rebooting be awhile yet. [gassholook]

Gassho, J

STLah

[mindblowing] gassho2

gassho
doyu sat/lah today

I understand what Rev. Warner is trying to say, but I mostly disagree. I think an in-person sangha is the “gold-standard” and is preferable, but to suggest there is no merit in on-line sangha is wrong IMO.

My sangha is in Wales, a mere 5 hour drive, so I join them online 3+ times a week for zazen and have digital dokusan. But I am fortunate to be able to see my teacher in the flesh a few times a year.

From my understanding, in days of old, Unsui (novice-monk) would travel the land and sitting in other temples and maybe communicate with their teacher by letter and in person very infrequently.

As Jundo says “all of life is our temple” and all humanity is our sangha.

With love and bows,
Jakushin
座禅をしました。


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