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Jundo
05-11-2012, 05:07 PM
Dear All,

Well, the moment has come to begin our reflecting, dancing, living the 100 Koans of the Book of Equanimity ...

We are going to try a great experiment, seeing how these Koans may be brought to life in our lives ... feeling how each resonates in our heart, and the Wisdom each carves into our bones.

At the core of the experiment, I would like to ask each member joining in this book club to post something each week ... some message ... just to signal to the others that we are all together. However, in posting your message ... you do not necessarily need to say anything (even a blank space as your posting is fine if that is what is sincerely felt), or a photograph, a poem, a song lyric, a cartoon, a story. The only requirement is that your posting be sincere, and honestly expresses how the Koan resonates in you and your life, and you in the Koan. Don't post simply because you feel you have to "sound Zen, sound Wise" ... and it is okay to say "I don't really get it" or "This Koan does not do anything for me". Most highly treasured would be some story from your own life describing a moment ... perhaps your life now, or some event you recall many years ago ... in which the insight of the Koan served as a kind of "turning word" to let you see, experience or handle an event in your life differently (This week, our Case 1, will ask for such an example).

Give it a try, take a chance ... don't be scared. We will not be judgmental, and all sincere responses are welcome. What pops up for you when you reflect on this Koan?... either immediately or after a few days?

Although we will not be judgmental, at the same time it is certainly true that some responses will ring the bell, flower, fly in the sky, and some will clunk, wilt on the vine or never get off the ground! Some may be very much "up in the head" ... all words and philosophy, no real heart. Some may "stink of Zen" but be rather hollow. That's okay, don't be afraid to clunk or stink or crash & burn! You see ... Koans are a lot like trying one's hand at art in a rather free form art class. Some paintings may come out as works of great insight and power, and some may not. Oh, sure, some creations may show "the knack" and some may "lack" something ... but the most important thing is to keep on making art!

So, be brave!! We are all going to be supportive of each other here, and all of us will flower sometimes, wilt sometimes, a bit of both sometimes.

I suggest that you read the "MAIN CASE" first, then read the "PREFACE TO THE ASSEMBLY" next and the "APPRECIATORY VERSE", then Shishin Wick's Commentary. The reason I suggest you read the "PREFACE TO THE ASSEMBLY" and "APPRECIATORY VERSE" after the main case is that they are usually playful puns, jokes, poetic reflections and such on the MAIN CASE. Don't be worried if they are hard to understand. Often, the PREFACE and VERSE are based on inside jokes, old Chinese slang, long forgotten poetic references that are now hard to understand. Shishin will explain some of the meaning.

In fact, take the whole ... the entire Koan ... as like a painting, scenery, a poem, a song ... and let the "lyrics" or images or little tale sink into you. For example, if you visit and look at the Grand Canyon ... you may think a bit about the Grand Canyon, about the majesty, the forces which went into its creation, the pioneers and cowboys, history ...

... but ultimately, one just lets the Grand Canyon wash through one and one through the Canyon. So it is with these Koans.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

CASE 1 - The World-Honored One Ascends the Platform

Most days, for years and years, the Buddha would ascend the platform to deliver a lecture on some aspect of Buddhist Teachings. Today, he goes up ... he comes down without saying a word. Or, did his "without words" speak volumes? Some truths about the Grand Canyon can be described in words, and some vital truths about the Canyon ... best without words. Such is even so much more so in the Buddha's Truths!

Suggested Question:

Shishin says, "Don't add anything extra. Just let everything be as it is. That's liberation. But letting everything be as it is, is difficult for us because we are always trying to fiddle around with things, always adding something, wishing something were taken away. ... [But if you think] everything is perfect as it is, that is [also] an erroneous view."

Can you describe a problem or incident in your life, now or in the past ... a situation that is/was very hard ... that your head was filled with thoughts and emotions about, and that you resisted or hated very much ... but would have/did/might experience very differently by just being "without words", just allowing and not fighting?

Gassho, J

PS - Some portions are available online, pending purchase ...

http://books.google.co.jp/books?id=fjtE ... &q&f=false (http://http://books.google.co.jp/books?id=fjtEckU0iugC&printsec=frontcover&hl=ja&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false)

http://www.amazon.com/The-Book-Equanimi ... 0861713877 (http://http://www.amazon.com/The-Book-Equanimity-Illuminating-Classic/dp/0861713877)

RichardH
05-11-2012, 11:10 PM
Ok. So everything, as-is, is “perfect” as-such, including my very natural need to fix things. But there isn't some kind of winking going on when something is “wrong”... it isn't pretend wrong. Stepping on a nail sucks. That nail in my foot is perfect suchness alright... but it hurts and I have to get it out.
I'm not going to sprinkle non-dual fairy dust on the situation and say the nail in my foot sucks, but doesn't really suck on an absolute level. It just plain sucks. The crappiness of the crappiness is crappy.. So all that is left is living it whole heartedly... and then letting go ..

Shohei
05-11-2012, 11:14 PM
The koan itself I took this one as one eager beaver wanting so much to "help" he inadvertently verbally built a cage to trap the dharma in and anything Buddha could have said after this to the assembly would be caught there too in the minds of others so best to shut it get down and leave it at that.

To the question posed. Big yes!
at work I had up set a person who, while in the wrong, Had I given the space to explain, would have simply had me explain what needed to happen next time that situation arrived and all would have been sunshine and lollypops.

Instead I gave them an instant blast of shit upon sight - before even asking for an explanation -as I had already sat fuming over the
"wrong" for a half an hour. When there reasons were given back to me, it was something that could have been a 2 min conversation, some compromise and that would have been it.

Too late now the ears were closed and any attempt there after was a loss.

Were they in the wrong? Yep.
Did they need to be reminded of their responsibility? Yep
Did their reason fail in the face of office protocol yep.
Did i blow it all to hell with one sentence and a sour look. Oh yeah.

Still feeling the blow back from my lack of tact and opening my trap
I usually wait until all are settled, my own emotions checked at the door and THEN approach it more open ended (leaving lots of rope of course)

Im sure my wife an those around me have much more than that :)

Gassho
Shohei

Omoi Otoshi
05-12-2012, 07:30 AM
Kojip - Yes, as Shishin says "[But if you think] everything is perfect as it is, that is [also] an erroneous view". Having a nail in your foot is not ideal. It causes unnecessary suffering and infection leading to a premature death. But the situation after you have stepped on the nail is perfectly what it is. It happened. In this moment, it couldn't be any different. It is thus, such, as it is. In a way, perfect, because it couldn't be any different, but at the same time not perfect. The wisest action would be to do something about it. Not because we "should", but because it's the natural thing to do, the only sane thing to do. There's no need to add anything extra (Oh no! Why did this happen to me? Things like this always happen to me! I hate the idiot who left a board with a nail in it on the ground!) or wish things were different. Instead, with the right mind, we can accept that now there's a nail in my foot, it sucks, it hurts as hell, it's dangerous. Give the anger space, give the fear space, give the pain space. And take action. Pull it out and clean the wound or go to the doctor. Talk to the person who left the nail on the ground, or if it was you, forgive yourself and promise to be more careful in the future. To me, Zen is not about resignation, but about accepting what is, the suchness of things, and adapting to the circumstances you find yourself in, ie taking action, changing things.

I was going to comment on the koan and on the question posted by Jundo, but the two-year-old is demolishing the house, so I have to adapt to the circumstances and take action! :lol:

Gassho,
Pontus

Heisoku
05-12-2012, 07:53 AM
Being without words is easy. Allowing without fighting is a whole other matter. Sometimes it is good to let things be but you need to assess the roots of a situation. I guess we have all found ourselves between a rock and a hard place in our lives..a situation perhaps of our own making which we just have to live through. In this instance then we just have to live through it! I remember my salvation being the simple routines of each day..getting up ( really important), making food ( just as important), keeping the place and yourself clean ( yup important) doing little things, just doing them...no words required.. A kind of mindfulness. Sometimes it takes a lot of nerve and focus to keep things on the level ...but sometimes there are situations where again you have no control, such as those defined by the boss or work team, when fighting the situation (in your head I mean) can bring you around to discovering where delusions are really working. Keeping wordless can solve the issue whereas getting angry and closed off from others can damage relationships and yourself.
Buddha got down to let Manjushri's words be. There was no need at that moment to say more....another time, well who knows?

Ekai
05-12-2012, 10:52 AM
I was going to comment on the koan and on the question posted by Jundo, but the two-year-old is demolishing the house, so I have to adapt to the circumstances and take action! :lol:

Gassho,
Pontus

Sounds like my 2-year old! :lol:

Gassho,
Ekai

Gary
05-12-2012, 10:55 AM
I've heard a saying that goes something like "Speak only if it improves on silence."
I think that this refers not only to verbal speech but also includes mental speech. "Think only if it improves on silence."

These are the first thoughts from my beginners mind, these are subject to change over the next few days. :)

Gassho
Gary

Jinyo
05-12-2012, 11:17 AM
Gary wrote

I've heard a saying that goes something like "Speak only if it improves on silence."
I think that this refers not only to verbal speech but also includes mental speech. "Think only if it improves on silence."

thanks Gary - the above is my biggest challenge.

When I woke this morning my head was immediately racing with worrying thoughts concerning my mother - who is living in less than ideal
circumstances but refusing help. I know what needs doing - and all the dead ends - so the endless mind theatre is 'adding more' with no good
purpose.

Outside it's a beautiful morning - sun glistening on the dew soaked lawn - resonating (for me) with the words of the Appreciatory Verse
'Mother Nature goes on weaving warp and wool'
Looking out at the garden everything is just as it is - mother nature doing her thing. Inside my head - in my mind - I'm constantly adding to the
'woven old brocade' - endlessly stitching over and over, perhaps stitching over, blocking, concealing - the images of spring.

So everything just as it is - worried about my mum and a beautiful morning. Nothing to add and nothing to take away.

But later we'll deliver shopping and check she's Ok - because right action matters too.

Gassho

Willow

Dokan
05-12-2012, 11:30 AM
Blinded by Manushri's words. Deafened by his finger. The hazy moon is eclipsed. Eyes wide shut, what more could be seen?

Gassho,

Dokan

andyZ
05-12-2012, 01:13 PM
As far as I can remember myself I was always a dreamer in my younger years. I would day dream anywhere and anytime. Now as I'm getting older there isn't much dreaming going on but rather dwelling in the past, playing out different scenarios of what my life would be like have I not done this or that. However, thanks to the practice more of life "as is" appears and gets noticed. So this koan for me personally is about noticing and giving up the tendencies that have been part of my way of being for pretty much all of my life. It's about living right this moment which is just as is, even accepting my old way of thinking as is/was – no critique no judging, just accepting it and dropping it.

Heisoku
05-12-2012, 01:26 PM
I recognise that Andy. Well put. Gassho.

Jiken
05-12-2012, 02:20 PM
So a couple of weeks ago my eight year old girl had a soccer game. It was the first game where they were keeping score. My kid is a pretty good player. She is also very sweet without the killer instinct for competition. The score was tied 1-1 for the whole game and emotions were high. The last quarter she was put in the position of goal keeper - a position she has no experience in - a high stress position for her, for me and my wife who played goalkeeper at the highest levels. The atmosphere with the parents on both sides was intense with lots of yelling and screaming. The referee for the game was a 15 year old kid volunteer. Of course a foul was called in the penalty box and the ref called for a penalty kick (one on one shot against the keeper at a short distance). The ref made a mistake. The rules state no penalty kicks at this age. I hadnt prepared her for it. My daughter wasnt ready. My wife wasnt ready. I wasnt ready. I was afraid for her. Would it crush her - the weight of losing the game-the pressure of the situation-worried for my wife-on and on and on in my head. I was yelling at the ref that he was wrong and needed to fix it. Needless to say the parents went crazy with several verbal fights breaking out including me yelling at a 17 year old boy who was swearing at and challenging my wife to a fight. There were worse arguments with other parents on the field as well. Things got out of control and the game was called.

My daughter and all the kids saw the entire thing and how all the parents acted. I should have just let it go. It was just a soccer game. She would have learned more from the experience of the penalty kick - either good or bad and dealt with whatever situation that would have come about. It would have been hard to be quiet and let it just happen without resisting (just cheering her on) but the experience would have been better and my kid would have learned a better lesson than her parents and other parents are out of control. I did a lot of damage control to fix a problem I helped to create :D

Daido

jefftos
05-12-2012, 02:33 PM
At the hotel I work at the front desk has a big laser printer, this printer takes a huge beating from over use all day, the back office likes to save money by buying the generic toner for this printer. I've told them countless times after fixing it that they must stop using this crappy generic stuff but to no avail. This used to infuriate me to no end I would kick and scream in my head, and then devise some plan to get them to understand why you must buy the actual brand name toner, but at the end of the day, the printer gets fixed fixed and still we had the generic ink regardless of my advice. Now when I am called to fix the printer, I still get angry, I still get upset, I am still disappointed that my advice goes unheeded but when that's done I fix the printer and move on, and I find that the periods of anger and disappointment don't last as long once I resolve to just fix the issue, but the longer I get caught up in the swirl of emotion, the longer it takes to fix the printer.

Gassho,

Jeff

Gregor
05-12-2012, 03:10 PM
Glad for all the detail here, still waiting on my book, something happened with the amazon order.

This case goes right to experiance/meaning of a Zen practice to me. I find that there is not much for me to say about it that adds much value. Silence, awareness, and acceptance seems to trump thoughts, words and striving.

alan.r
05-12-2012, 03:43 PM
Ok. So everything, as-is, is “perfect” as-such, including my very natural need to fix things. But there isn't some kind of winking going on when something is “wrong”... it isn't pretend wrong. Stepping on a nail sucks. That nail in my foot is perfect suchness alright... but it hurts and I have to get it out.
I'm not going to sprinkle non-dual fairy dust on the situation and say the nail in my foot sucks, but doesn't really suck on an absolute level. It just plain sucks. The crappiness of the crappiness is crappy.. So all that is left is living it whole heartedly... and then letting go ..

Does it suck? It's pain, but does it suck? Maybe right at that moment? But even then, who can say? Pain is pain.

To riff off Daido's excellent soccer story (I've seen those fights and been part of them, sure!). Here is my ankle, sprained during soccer (futball, of course), in a boot a month, another month out, two more months of rehab. There was a lot of pain and anger at the pain at first, sure. But in those four months, I rehabbed, strengthened both ankles, and quite accidentally developed my left foot into a strength, and can now play off both sides. It took discipline and patience and working through pain. For my soccer game, this ankle injury, even this pain, ended up being one of best things to happen to my body and my mind state while playing. So, does this sprained ankle suck?

ankle pictures (couldn't upload photo; some R-rated language in re-telling of story here): http://stories-like-stories-you-know.bl ... ankle.html (http://http://stories-like-stories-you-know.blogspot.com/2010/12/welcome-to-my-destroyed-ankle.html).

"nothing can be done about the Spring God's outflowing": I'm reminded of my over-analyzing, self-conscious mind. I used to always question what I was saying, how I was saying it, how it was coming off to other people, was I being too self-centered, too focused on being funny or intelligent, too focused on trying to create an impression, did others see this, did I hurt someone's feelings with a joke, an argument, a point of view. This drove me crazy, to the point of not being able to sleep nights, to depression, mood swings, serious doubt, disliking myself, etc. Over the past few years, sitting, just being with oneself, just being with everything, has really settled the "outflow" some.

Gassho,
Alan

RichardH
05-12-2012, 04:49 PM
Does it suck? It's pain, but does it suck? Maybe right at that moment? But even then, who can say? Pain is pain.
...and how is that panning out for you? For me sometimes pain is just pain.. alone in/as sheer, bright, presence.... all enlightenedish. Then sometimes it is pain-while-bank-refuses-interest-rate-lock-in-and-ass-of-pants-tears-while-kid's-tourette-syndrome-goes-ballistic. Now maybe that is unenlightened... all greed hatred and delusionish. But nonetheless.. that is the moment as-presents too. That too. If it is not that too.. then I might as well go find a kuti in the woods and kiss the world goodbye.

Al
05-12-2012, 05:12 PM
Closing the gate, hitting the snooze button
I vow with all beings
to celebrate the idea of spring
even as the persimmons are already falling

Risho
05-12-2012, 06:40 PM
Does it suck? It's pain, but does it suck? Maybe right at that moment? But even then, who can say? Pain is pain.
...and how is that panning out for you? For me sometimes pain is just pain.. alone in/as sheer, bright, presence.... all enlightenedish. Then sometimes it is pain-while-bank-refuses-interest-rate-lock-in-and-ass-of-pants-tears-while-kid's-tourette-syndrome-goes-ballistic. Now maybe that is unenlightened... all greed hatred and delusionish. But nonetheless.. that is the moment as-presents too. That too. If it is not that too.. then I might as well go find a kuti in the woods and kiss the world goodbye.

Damned right! When you are in pain, you don't say oh wait, hold on "Pain is Pain". No you hurt. Sometimes you hurt like hell depending on the injury. But the key is to not add to the pain with more mental chatter. Not that that works out well for me. A lot of the time I yell, and swear and get angry about it. But I do learn from it.

Gassho,

Risho

alan.r
05-12-2012, 06:54 PM
...and how is that panning out for you? For me sometimes pain is just pain.. alone in/as sheer, bright, presence.... all enlightenedish. Then sometimes it is pain-while-bank-refuses-interest-rate-lock-in-and-ass-of-pants-tears-while-kid's-tourette-syndrome-goes-ballistic. Now maybe that is unenlightened... all greed hatred and delusionish. But nonetheless.. that is the moment as-presents too. That too. If it is not that too.. then I might as well go find a kuti in the woods and kiss the world goodbye.

Oh I don't know. Not enlightened nor unenlightened nor whatever. I'm just saying, sometimes saying something sucks is the first little trip for me, the first little misstep. Not that I don't do it, I do all the time, but when I do: a little cave with just me. Weeds and flowers. And if I keep going in my mind, These weeds suck, well, they will, and there I'll be with all that sucks, my shit, mine; if I can simply see thing, well, maybe something else, I don't know. Just because something is unpleasant doesn't make it wrong. In any case, I didn't mean to be judgmental, just to look from some other spot at it.

A nail in the foot!
Take it out.
But don't call it anything.

PS: Shinkai, I love that.

Gassho,
alan

Myoku
05-12-2012, 08:11 PM
Basically Not Speaking is a good thing. Much better than speaking most of the time; and as Gary said, this also applies to thoughts. For me it certainly does; especially those thoughts giving us and other trouble, thoughts which arise from greed, anger, ignorance.

This week I had trouble with a business partner, big trouble. I wont go in all details, as its pretty complex, but during this "divorce" I needed to digest a lot of harsh and ugly comments from this former partner, he was very angry; and I felt very bad treated, especially as I think I played my part pretty fair.
I was thinking about the situation, how to act (after all it was an important relation) and why he was so hart to me over and over again. I could not find sleep on last Wednesday. Lying in bed I did some "zazen", it was tricky as my mind wandered back to my trouble on and on. But then I had a couple of minutes free of that notorious thinking. And next even about 10 minutes, when suddenly I saw much clearer. By constantly working on it, fueled by my anger and greed, my pushing to solve it, I was stuck. By releasing it, it solved itself. To make it short: the separation was inevitable, but I could go into it with peace now.

_()_
Peter Myoku

Heisoku
05-12-2012, 08:51 PM
I hope things are improving for you Myoku. I too have had many sleepless nights as confusion and anger generates an energy that just won't die down. I have tried zazen on these occasions but although thoughts are cleared it's the energy that I find a nuisance.It just keeps zinging around!

Myoshin
05-12-2012, 10:25 PM
To accept life as it is and not be frightened it's hard, harder it's to accept that the Dharma is simple, it's humain to feel something missing from this simplicity, and when we realise it we can be frightened by this ultimate reality:even with the Dharma, nothing can and has to be grasped. Is a great liberty or a great prison of non sens of our life if we fell frightenend and alone. "to look life in the face, to know it for what it is, to love it for what it is, to cherish it, and to drop it"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMErdpA804Y[/video]]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMErdpA804Y (http://[video=youtube_share;yMErdpA804Y) This movie talked to me a few years ago like Dalloway feeling her life incomplete.

My little understanding and feeling

Gassho to all

Gregor
05-13-2012, 01:11 AM
At work people often come to me with a question or worse a problem/crisis that needs to be handled. I'm trying to learn to move with a little less urgency and more quiet focus. Usually when we react from a place of panic or anxiousness the best choices are not made.

Perhaps taking that extra moment to be silent and consider the next action or thing to say is what is in order.

Even in my personal life I'd like to use this Koan to inspire me to take spme more time and allow space and silence between stimuli and response.

mr.Lou
05-13-2012, 01:32 AM
Tried to post my photo response and got this message:
"Sorry, the board attachment quota has been reached."
Oh well. It is what it is.

Jundo
05-13-2012, 03:52 AM
Boy, a lot of words for a Koan about not speaking! 8)

What was spoken loud and clear by the Buddha, coming up ... going down the stairs?

What was taught that might not be heard in a lecture of 10,000,000 words?

Gassho, J

Myoku
05-13-2012, 05:30 AM
Most highly treasured would be some story from your own life describing a moment ... perhaps your life now, or some event you recall many years ago ... in which the insight of the Koan served as a kind of "turning word" to let you see, experience or handle an event in your life differently (This week, our Case 1, will ask for such an example).


Boy, a lot of words for a Koan about not speaking! 8)

_()_
Myoku

Omoi Otoshi
05-13-2012, 08:12 AM
Boy, a lot of words for a Koan about not speaking! 8)
:D
But is it about not speaking?
Was the Buddha always silent?
Did he think a lot about when to speak and when to stay silent?
In my view, silence is not generally better than speaking. But sometimes words are meaningless, extra.
There can be just as much meaning communicated through silence, action.



Then the venerable Sariputra said to the goddess, "Goddess, how long have you been in this house?"
The goddess replied, "I have been here as long as the elder has been in liberation."
Sariputra said, "Then, have you been in this house for quite some time?"
The goddess said, "Has the elder been in liberation for quite some time?"
At that, the elder Sariputra fell silent.
The goddess continued, "Elder, you are 'foremost of the wise!' Why do you not speak? Now, when it is your turn, you do not answer the question."
Sariputra: Since liberation is inexpressible, goddess, I do not know what to say.
Goddess: All the syllables pronounced by the elder have the nature of liberation. Why? Liberation is neither internal nor external, nor can it be apprehended apart from them. Likewise, syllables are neither internal nor external, nor can they be apprehended anywhere else. Therefore, reverend Sariputra, do not point to liberation by abandoning speech! Why? The holy liberation is the equality of all things!



What was spoken loud and clear by the Buddha, coming up ... going down the stairs?
What was taught that might not be heard in a lecture of 10,000,000 words?

We were not there, so I don't believe we can know for sure. So much communication is going on all the time that can't be captured in a few lines. But my guess is that what was taught was the same truth that was taught in the flower sermon.

Gassho,
Pontus

Omoi Otoshi
05-13-2012, 08:15 AM
Tried to post my photo response and got this message:
"Sorry, the board attachment quota has been reached."
Oh well. It is what it is.

I got that too.

/Pontus

Heisoku
05-13-2012, 09:51 AM
:lol:

Jinyo
05-13-2012, 10:41 AM
Jundo wrote

Boy, a lot of words for a Koan about not speaking! 8)

.... well Shishin Wick managed over a page :)

Off or on the mark I really appreciate the level of sharing in this discussion.

Gassho

Willow

Omoi Otoshi
05-13-2012, 11:29 AM
I just mowed the back yard lawn. Two and a half hours on the garden tractor. Pure meditation. My two-year-old was sitting in my lap with earmuffs and a cap on. Normally, he can't be still for two minutes, but now he was sitting completely still for two hours, with only short stops to empty the collector. The motor was humming in the background, but birdsong could still be heard through the noise and the earmuffs. There was the smell of cut grass and spring. Sheer greenery everywhere. I hadn't noticed that the cherry tree was in full bloom. Close to the blossoms, bees and bumblebees were buzzing around. Below the tree were tiny little pink flowers that I don't remember seeing before. Above, an airplane was making loops and rolls in the sky, not a common sight in these parts. When we emptied the grass for the last time, I was going to ask the kid if he enjoyed it. In that moment, he turned around and smiled, grinned. With his whole face, his whole body. I didn't say anything. Maybe because we still had the earmuffs on, maybe because no words were necessary. I just bent down and kissed him on the forehead. A beautiful day.

Gassho,
Pontus

RichardH
05-13-2012, 12:00 PM
Boy, a lot of words for a Koan about not speaking! 8)



Gassho, J

uh oh ... sorry.

here......











.. Gassho

... ahh it's too late.. already blew it. :(

Omoi Otoshi
05-13-2012, 12:10 PM
Yes, no gold star for you my friend! :D

/Pontus

Rich
05-13-2012, 12:17 PM
When we emptied the grass for the last time, I was going to ask the kid if he enjoyed it. In that moment, he turned around and smiled, grinned. With his whole face, his whole body. I didn't say anything. Maybe because we still had the earmuffs on, maybe because no words were necessary. I just bent down and kissed him on the forehead. A beautiful day.

Gassho,
Pontus

Wonderful story. Like you Budddha was a wonderful father.

Am looking forward to commenting on this first case but the responses have been so interesting and thoughtful that I get carried away by them.

Koshin
05-13-2012, 01:50 PM
Wonderful story. Like you Budddha was a wonderful father.

Am looking forward to commenting on this first case but the responses have been so interesting and thoughtful that I get carried away by them.

Ditto :)

Jinyo
05-13-2012, 03:52 PM
I just mowed the back yard lawn. Two and a half hours on the garden tractor. Pure meditation. My two-year-old was sitting in my lap with earmuffs and a cap on. Normally, he can't be still for two minutes, but now he was sitting completely still for two hours, with only short stops to empty the collector. The motor was humming in the background, but birdsong could still be heard through the noise and the earmuffs. There was the smell of cut grass and spring. Sheer greenery everywhere. I hadn't noticed that the cherry tree was in full bloom. Close to the blossoms, bees and bumblebees were buzzing around. Below the tree were tiny little pink flowers that I don't remember seeing before. Above, an airplane was making loops and rolls in the sky, not a common sight in these parts. When we emptied the grass for the last time, I was going to ask the kid if he enjoyed it. In that moment, he turned around and smiled, grinned. With his whole face, his whole body. I didn't say anything. Maybe because we still had the earmuffs on, maybe because no words were necessary. I just bent down and kissed him on the forehead. A beautiful day.

Gassho,
Pontus

That's a lovely story (you have a big lawn Pontus :shock: ) - when we say back yard in the Uk it's usually the size of a postage stamp :)

Willow

Omoi Otoshi
05-13-2012, 04:02 PM
Yes, it's in the country side. The grass was long and a little wet, so I couldn't go very fast. The lawn in front of the house takes an hour and a half and the back another two hours... But I don't consider it to be work. It's pure relaxation! :D

Gassho,
Pontus

Shugen
05-13-2012, 04:12 PM
I saw a great blue heron on a rooftop and a mallard duck in my neighbor's pool. Things I've never seen here. We had a group cuddle in bed, dogs and all!

Happy Mother's day.


Shugen

kirkmc
05-13-2012, 04:56 PM
I am currently in a difficult situation with one of my clients. Following a change in direction, the company is totally changing its marketing approaches. My work creating content for this company is a large part of their marketing. In addition, this company is my largest client.

I've been working for this company for more than 15 years, and my work has been instrumental in the way the company has built its reputation. but I cannot agree with the approach that they are taking, and have gotten to the point where I do not feel that I can work for them anymore.

At first, I was fighting these changes, trying to explain what was wrong in their decisions. Some of the changes are certainly good, but the overall changes go against the way I want to work. In the past couple of weeks, I finally realized that fighting these changes is not beneficial for me. I've also realized that if I cannot continue to work with this company, well, then I just have to stop working with them. So I am at a point now where I am accepting both a major change — as my largest client, this represents more than half of my income — and the possibilities that this will open for the future. Instead of just seeing this as fully negative, I am seeing how this will both allow me and force me to find new clients to replace this one, and possibly moving in a different direction.

So, in some ways I have reached the point where it seems much better to "just allow and not fight," as Jundo said above.

RichardH
05-13-2012, 09:17 PM
Yes, no gold star for you my friend! :D

/Pontus

...oh boy.... maybe I really want a gold star..... :mrgreen:

Shokai
05-13-2012, 09:39 PM
I didn't get the feeling that Manjushri was 'outflowing' (after all he was quite wise), I felt he was preparing the gathered listeners for what Buddha was going to say about the Dharma King's Dharma and, he did this by descending the platform. Has this ever happened to me? Yes! A few times when what I prepared was said by speakers before me but, I would stupidly go on and try to patch it up. This happened a few times until I realized it is best to say what is on you mind 'in the moment.' If that happens to be nothing, say nothing; they'll never know what you are thinking :D

Risho
05-13-2012, 09:55 PM
Right now, my wife is visiting her mother in the hospital. I'm at home with the dogs. I miss my wife; I want to be with her and her family. I want to do something to fix this! I have to keep coming back to now, and let go, and now and let go. There is nothing I can do at this moment, but just relax and let it be. I can sit zazen, offer metta and pray. That is a form of letting things be. I can use this as an opportunity to practice.

Also from a professional perspective, I'm a software developer. Lots of times I encounter problems that just blindside me. "Things should not be behaving like that!" That type of thinking is destructive. I have a problem or problems like that now. It scares me. I'm supposed to be the expert and know everything about the system, but that's not true at all. Still I have a responsibility to do my utmost to fix it. The best way I can do that is to not allow destructive emotions based on my desire about a situation to cloud my judgement. It's called computer science because we have to step back and observe and take correct action based on what the facts are showing us. When I get in the way of that, then I will never solve the problem. Hell I may not solve the problem anyway, but it is much more peaceful and balanced to act on what the reality of things are then how we want them to be. In that way, I can be blinded to what actually is; if I don't know what is, I can't fix it.


Boy, a lot of words for a Koan about not speaking! 8)

What was spoken loud and clear by the Buddha, coming up ... going down the stairs?

What was taught that might not be heard in a lecture of 10,000,000 words?

Gassho, J

This teaching seems to be similar to what the daily practice of zazen teaches me.

Words, thoughts, judgements are necessary to act in this world, but they are a filter or lens through which we see the world. If we hold to tightly onto words, we forget the reality. At the same time, I am a man of reason, and I think thinking is a wondrous thing (hahaha I didn't intend think thinking pun. lol). So we need both. The point of this is that nothing more can be said... reality doesn't need a description. This is it now; we need to see it. We need to keep on coming back and seeing it. We need to notice when we are grasping and clinging, then just watch that go and then see it again. That's what Shikantaza has taught me.

There are always going to be thoughts; that is natural and human! However, when we cling or hold on, the 3 poisons of greed, anger and ignorance take place. This is my life! I make my own decisions! I don't care what you think! I will drink as much as I want to. I will smoke, I will hurt myself because it has no bearing on your life. Oh "they" aren't as smart as "us". "They" don't get "us". We must protect "our" stuff, and not let "them" take it.

I guess I'm being melodramatic, but reality is not like that. We all impact each other. But in order to see reality, we need to stop adding to it. Not that we are really adding anything at all to what is. But I mean in our mind.

Sorry for so many words. This not speaking seems to be at the heart of the teaching.

Gassho,

Risho

P.S I also found it interesting that Shishin Roshi asked the question why do you practice zazen? Before I even knew zazen involved a mediation practice, I was an armchair Buddhist. I read the koans and other stories about 10 or so years ago because they comforted me in some odd way; I also liked the idea of gaining enlightenment.. another notch on my ego's resume. Perhaps this ascending and descending is a shattering of that wish to gain something. You already are this. You are here now! Trying to add or take away is like living life with training wheels on. You don't experience the ride. True zen to me.... why I practice, is to see directly without that lens or at least to note when I do. It's to stop feeling like I'm not good enough now if I have to lose weight or can't solve everything; but that's bs. This life is a damned gift! Practice is to try and see what is now and really act upon that naturally. But why is that important? Because I think true action without the lens of self-interest is true compassion. Acting without that lens is like the 4 Bodhisattva vows. It may be impossible, but it's a damned good thing to practice and aim for. I don't know.. .just some thoughts that came while I was washing the dishes.

Jundo
05-14-2012, 02:48 AM
Boy, a lot of words for a Koan about not speaking! 8)

What was spoken loud and clear by the Buddha, coming up ... going down the stairs?

What was taught that might not be heard in a lecture of 10,000,000 words?

Gassho, J

I love how this is going!

Time to play some Dogen word games:




A "lot of words" is the Koan of "not speaking."

The stairs, preaching loud and clear, go straight up Buddha and right down Manjushri.

In a lecture of 10,000,000 words, the "not be heard" is taught "as it is".





Printer jams, a partner leaves, soccer foul and parents too,

mother sick, work don't work, hearts and legs broken ...

A nail from old stairs pierces Buddha's foot ... OUCH!... Manjushri tumbles down ...

Cutting grass, This Moment on 10,000 blades.


A "PREFACE TO THE ASSEMBLY" and "APPRECIATORY VERSE" ... though I ain't much the poet.


Gassho, J

Risho
05-14-2012, 03:28 AM
Gassho, I love that poem :)

ok I hate cliche's and I hate parroting other zen stuff... But it seems sometimes like Zen is the art of falling and getting back up... It's always about getting back up. It's hard to state this without sounding too absolutist... but it's almost like who cares about the result? Follow your heart with good intent. Of course if the results are missing the mark, pick yourself back up, adjust course and keep on trying. But not try in a half-hearted way like Yoda told Luke, but just straight doing with all of your being following your heart. For example, saving all sentient is an impossible feat. Who cares? We are all in this together, let's do it! Let's shut up and clarify ourselves by trying to not add anything/ not take anything away and do this non-thing!

I remember hearing a talk about a master of archery, and the master would follow a methodical process of setting the arrow, breathing calmly and releasing. No matter where it lands, he would say "bullseye"! No matter how we try and describe the Way, we will naturally miss the mark, but we must keep on doing it to save all sentient beings as words and ideas (although the finger) can point. case in point, we are all here sharing in this marvelous practice, brought here by word of mouth :mrgreen:

Gassho,

Risho

Rimon
05-14-2012, 05:05 AM
From time to time I got angry at people
Because they are not doing the right thing, what they are supposed to do
Then, a few times, I let silence sink in
And I realize that "right" and "wrong" are just words
And I laugh
Rimon's Dharma is just as it is

Thank you Taigu, Jundo, Treeleaf for showing it to me

Gassho


Rimon

Hans
05-14-2012, 07:47 AM
Hello,

regarding Jundo's question: Can you describe a problem or incident in your life, now or in the past ... a situation that is/was very hard ... that your head was filled with thoughts and emotions about, and that you resisted or hated very much ... but would have/did/might experience very differently by just being "without words", just allowing and not fighting?

This instantly reminds me of a time when I just started a new job many years ago which on some deep level just didn't feel right, although factually all should have been wonderful. Instead of just allowing myself to truly feel the emotions and thoughts - and to follow them to their source, I got caught up in my feeling miserable and complained to people close to me about my situation. Had I allowed myself to just feel the feeling, clarity might have been found much sooner, with the effect that I could have taken appropriate action earlier. Interestingly clarity doesn't lead to more options IMHO, but to less and less options. So the freedom I am talking about here is not one of unlimited choices, it is one of having a clear understanding of the way things are, followed by not being as caught-up by unnecessary fetters. Being free to do what really needs to be done..now that is freedom.


Gassho,

Hans Chudo Mongen

Jinyo
05-14-2012, 08:20 AM
Printer jams, a partner leaves, soccer foul and parents too,

mother sick, work don't work, hearts and legs broken ...

A nail from old stairs pierces Buddha's foot ... OUCH!... Manjushri tumbles down ...

Cutting grass, This Moment on 10,000 blades.

Thanks Jundo

Gassho

Willow

Rich
05-14-2012, 10:48 AM
'The Dharma-Kings Dharma is as is'

When I first came to Buddhism I was just looking for another way to escape a life filled with pain, anxiety and fear. I believed that enlightenment would change me into a totally different person. Well, I'm still basically the same but I probably notice things sooner and more completely. Right now I'm a little anxious about the sale of my house. But its not growing into a monster. I acknowledge it and do what needs to be done on my part and put it down as much as necessary. Now some of the as is ness can be pretty nice and some can be pretty bad but you always acknowledge it and let it go - all just sitting - all good practice. So you are the Dharma-King ascending and descending the throne.

Shokai
05-14-2012, 11:05 AM
Q: Is there any need to speak of as-is-ness once it is realized ?
A: I don't know!

Oops is this case 2 :lol:

Omoi Otoshi
05-14-2012, 11:21 AM
'The Dharma-Kings Dharma is as is'

When I first came to Buddhism I was just looking for another way to escape a life filled with pain, anxiety and fear. I believed that enlightenment would change me into a totally different person. Well, I'm still basically the same but I probably notice things sooner and more completely. Right now I'm a little anxious about the sale of my house. But its not growing into a monster. I acknowledge it and do what needs to be done on my part and put it down as much as necessary. Now some of the as is ness can be pretty nice and some can be pretty bad but you always acknowledge it and let it go - all just sitting - all good practice. So you are the Dharma-King ascending and descending the throne.

Thank you Rich,
Buddha mind ascending, descending, outflowing.

Gassho,
Pontus

Thane
05-14-2012, 11:54 AM
Hi everyone

I am fairly new to studying formal written Koans but i have enjoyed this first one. For me it said that the truth is right here and now in this moment. When we realise the Dharma-King's Dharma it is just being here present in this moment with out adding mental commentary to it. This moment might contain joy, indifference, stress etc but if we don't add our own mental commentary to it, it is experienced as the Dharma King's Dharma? The World Honored One descending from the platform seemed to me to add power to Manjushri's words and really hit home that these words really did point to the truth and nothing more needs to be added.

In theory this makes sense to me but i know that it can be difficult to always live this in my own life. I recall a time several years ago where i felt very disappointed by the way i had been treated by an employer that i had really loved working for. Cutting a long story short i got myself in a real state about it. Was even signed off for three weeks as a result. It affected me emotionally for a year, maybe longer. What i beat myself up about was, hey i'm a Buddhist, and been practising for years, this shouldn't happen to me! I am calm and peaceful and my mind is fairly clear. I can laugh about this now. Maybe if i had read this koan then it would have help me? It might have helped me cut through the delusions i had set up about what a Buddhist is, what i am, and how practice and life should unfold. I might have seen that even this unpleasant situation the Dharma-King's Dharma just as it is.

Well that is my first post on treeleaf and on this study and i look forward to studying with you all.

In gassho

Thane

Jinyo
05-14-2012, 12:01 PM
... more shared refections - thank you Rich, Shokai, Thane and Pontus.

I've gone back to the Preface to the Assembly - I'm not sure I understand it.


Any thoughts?

Would you 'step forward' ?

Willow

andyZ
05-14-2012, 12:18 PM
I've gone back to the Preface to the Assembly - I'm not sure I understand it.


Any thoughts?

Would you 'step forward' ?

Willow

I think if you "step forward" you bring your own expectation into this situation. In this case you expect some important dharma teaching yet "not getting any".

What I don't get in the preface is this line – "I have no doubts about him." "Him" – the one who steps forward or the one who takes the high seat?

Dokan
05-14-2012, 01:11 PM
What I don't get in the preface is this line – "I have no doubts about him." "Him" – the one who steps forward or the one who takes the high seat?

Are you certain they are two?

Gassho

Dokan

Jinyo
05-14-2012, 01:36 PM
What I don't get in the preface is this line – "I have no doubts about him." "Him" – the one who steps forward or the one who takes the high seat?

Are you certain they are two?

Gassho

Dokan

Yeh - that's what was throwing me Andy - but I see what Dokan's pointing at.

But do we stand and scowl (while reflecting, abbreviating, elaborating - like I'm doing right now :roll: ) or close the gate and snooze?

Willow

andyZ
05-14-2012, 03:15 PM
What I don't get in the preface is this line – "I have no doubts about him." "Him" – the one who steps forward or the one who takes the high seat?

Are you certain they are two?

Gassho

Dokan

That's an interesting perspective. Thank you.

Myozan Kodo
05-14-2012, 03:31 PM
And the wordless became FLESH!
(And still dwells among us)

Jundo
05-14-2012, 04:21 PM
And the wordless became FLESH!
(And still dwells among us)

John 1:14

14 The Word became flesh and made His dwelling among us. We have seen His glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

Gassho, J

Ekai
05-14-2012, 08:23 PM
This case reminds of the quote by Chogyam Trungpa, "First thought, Best thought"

Can you describe a problem or incident in your life, now or in the past ... a situation that is/was very hard ... that your head was filled with thoughts and emotions about, and that you resisted or hated very much ... but would have/did/might experience very differently by just being "without words", just allowing and not fighting?

Too many times to count :shock: ! It's easier to recall when my head was clear during a difficult time than when it was out of control. I have a tendency to worry when something goes wrong. A new mole must mean it's cancer or when my computer program glitches, it must be junk. Then it's time to surf on the internet for more information that usually results in a waste of time. There is definitely improvement over the years in letting go of thoughts/emotions, and I notice quicker when the mind becomes unruly. But, it's still an ongoing process. I aspire to be like my mom and mother-in-law. They have cultivated the ability to be with things "just as they are". It's quite comical to see the unnecessary turmoil the mind adds to challenging situation :D .

Gassho,
Ekai

Kaishin
05-15-2012, 12:41 AM
This past Sunday was Mother's Day in the US. My mother decided she would like a simple day at a local park with close family. So my wife and I, our two daughters, my sister, her boyfriend, and his wonderful old dog spent the day there with my mother and father. We had a nice picnic lunch in the shade, played with the girls on the playground equipment, went for a leisurely hike around the lake. It was one of the most enjoyable outings I can remember, and after reading this koan, I think that's largely due to me "turning off" my brain. I tend to add so much mental commentary to every experience I have, but not this time... not sure why.

So it was just

eating, eating, eating
playing, playing, playing,
hiking, hiking, hiking
laughing, laughing, laughing,
loving, loving, loving

kids throwing rocks into the lake, watching the water ripple
everyone laughing at the old dog's delight at jumping into the shallow water, "hunting" the geese
reminiscing about our time as little kids at the same park with our parents

nothing complicated, nothing orchestrated

ascending, descending

_/_

Jundo
05-15-2012, 02:10 AM
This past Sunday was Mother's Day in the US. My mother decided she would like a simple day at a local park with close family. So my wife and I, our two daughters, my sister, her boyfriend, and his wonderful old dog spent the day there with my mother and father. We had a nice picnic lunch in the shade, played with the girls on the playground equipment, went for a leisurely hike around the lake. It was one of the most enjoyable outings I can remember, and after reading this koan, I think that's largely due to me "turning off" my brain. I tend to add so much mental commentary to every experience I have, but not this time... not sure why.

So it was just

eating, eating, eating
playing, playing, playing,
hiking, hiking, hiking
laughing, laughing, laughing,
loving, loving, loving

kids throwing rocks into the lake, watching the water ripple
everyone laughing at the old dog's delight at jumping into the shallow water, "hunting" the geese
reminiscing about our time as little kids at the same park with our parents

nothing complicated, nothing orchestrated

ascending, descending

_/_

Thank you, Kaishin. Lovely.

When we can be this way, 'tis truly something ... all welcome, even the sometime ants and passing rain storms of life's picnic.

Gassho, J

Madrone
05-15-2012, 05:08 AM
Just checking in to say that I read the first case. Difficult day with my birth family. I tried to accept that things are as they are. I need more practice.

Shogen
05-15-2012, 09:37 AM
Walking, standing, and sitting all daily examples of wisdom without words. There is a time for speaking and a time for silence. Knowing when to apply them is wisdom. When i am silent now is without dogma or definition but when i speak there is only a goal and now is only a wake. Great learning has always come from silent observation but I can't remember learning anything when speaking. What difference is there between silence and ATTENTION? gassho shogen

Ekai
05-15-2012, 01:52 PM
This past Sunday was Mother's Day in the US. My mother decided she would like a simple day at a local park with close family. So my wife and I, our two daughters, my sister, her boyfriend, and his wonderful old dog spent the day there with my mother and father. We had a nice picnic lunch in the shade, played with the girls on the playground equipment, went for a leisurely hike around the lake. It was one of the most enjoyable outings I can remember, and after reading this koan, I think that's largely due to me "turning off" my brain. I tend to add so much mental commentary to every experience I have, but not this time... not sure why.

So it was just

eating, eating, eating
playing, playing, playing,
hiking, hiking, hiking
laughing, laughing, laughing,
loving, loving, loving

kids throwing rocks into the lake, watching the water ripple
everyone laughing at the old dog's delight at jumping into the shallow water, "hunting" the geese
reminiscing about our time as little kids at the same park with our parents

nothing complicated, nothing orchestrated

ascending, descending

_/_

I did a similar thing with my son on Mother's Day. It was a beautiful, bright sunny day and we played outside in the backyard blowing bubbles. Then I put him in the stroller and we walked to the park. Hunter and I went down the slides together and just enjoyed being together. I thought about this koan too and brought myself back to the moment whenever my mind intellectualized the experience. It was wonderful to just be with my son with nothing else added.

Gassho,
Ekai

Nenka
05-15-2012, 02:11 PM
Can you describe a problem or incident in your life, now or in the past ... a situation that is/was very hard ... that your head was filled with thoughts and emotions about, and that you resisted or hated very much ... but would have/did/might experience very differently by just being "without words", just allowing and not fighting?

Yes. All the time. And sometimes you have to know when to get off your platform, and when to stay there and say something useful.

When you realize the Dharma-King's dharma, the Dharma-King's dharma is just as it is.

When you realize.

When.

Until then, you probably won't see it.

Gassho

Jen

RichardH
05-15-2012, 03:40 PM
I've been rolling around this koan..

There is something I want to see in it... a suggestion or promise that with the right “letting go”,
what is not-ok will be ok while being not-ok. Somehow the very not-ok-ness will, on a deeper level, be ok. But that is not what this koan is about. It is not about letting go... at all.

This line from Jundo's poem...

"This Moment on 10,000 blades".

.. it flashes-out to ok is ok, and not-ok is not-ok... It is not about letting go, or surrender, or just being, or allowing, any effort, or non-effort, at all... it is not about any of that. It just flashes out..

Rich
05-15-2012, 08:38 PM
"This Moment on 10,000 blades".

.. it flashes-out to ok is ok, and not-ok is not-ok... It is not about letting go, or surrender, or just being, or allowing, any effort, or non-effort, at all... it is not about any of that. It just flashes out..

There's a fine line between experience - as is ness - flashing out - being in the zone - suchness - and thinking about or havng opinions about or judgements about experience. Doesn't moving about freely between them involve some action which some might call letting go?

Taigu
05-15-2012, 11:34 PM
Not a word is
Not getting in the way
Of the Way

Way-self
beyond construct beliefs blablabla
Ascends

As you-me-others
Return to the source
The origin is eloquently silent

Drive or sleep
Shop or clean up
It ll find you there

The eloquent silent
Which is you all over
All along
And no big deal

Gassho

T.

RichardH
05-16-2012, 12:27 AM
"This Moment on 10,000 blades".

.. it flashes-out to ok is ok, and not-ok is not-ok... It is not about letting go, or surrender, or just being, or allowing, any effort, or non-effort, at all... it is not about any of that. It just flashes out..

There's a fine line between experience - as is ness - flashing out - being in the zone - suchness - and thinking about or havng opinions about or judgements about experience. Doesn't moving about freely between them involve some action which some might call letting go?

ha.. I just wrote a looong piece about practice history and suffering etc.. then pushed the wrong key. pooof.


Basically in my experience letting-go is non-suffering.. but there is also holding-on and suffering. There is both. I used to think practice was about uprooting greed, hatred, and delusion.. so there would only be non-suffering...Nirvana, but have learned that Zen practice is about realizing Nirvana and Samsara , non-suffering and suffering, as two sides of one "coin". Maybe this is what Sunface Buddha/Moonface Buddha means? This koan is about that "coin".. and it can't be entered by either holding or letting go. So it is a flash.


But just talking about this now... it falls like a lump of coal at my feet. :(

Gassho, kojip

Kyonin
05-16-2012, 02:04 AM
I've been sitting. I've been thinking about this koan.

Sitting. And then I look back at my life, at my beloved ones lives.

I sit. I work, then I stop and think again.

I go about my day and realize the silence. The reasons.

Answers. Dharma in the silence.

Tears.

Awake.

Accept the universe as it is. Accept the words, the thoughts, the diversity, the preferences.

Awake.

Myoku
05-16-2012, 05:25 AM
What was spoken loud and clear by the Buddha, coming up ... going down the stairs?


Words are just words! _()_



What was taught that might not be heard in a lecture of 10,000,000 words?


Words are just words! _()_

_()_
Myoku

Jinyo
05-16-2012, 10:05 AM
Not a word is
Not getting in the way
Of the Way

Way-self
beyond construct beliefs blablabla
Ascends

As you-me-others
Return to the source
The origin is eloquently silent

Drive or sleep
Shop or clean up
It ll find you there

The eloquent silent
Which is you all over
All along
And no big deal

Gassho

T.

Beautiful - peace expressed through words

Gassho

Willow

Jinyo
05-16-2012, 10:08 AM
I've been sitting. I've been thinking about this koan.

Sitting. And then I look back at my life, at my beloved ones lives.

I sit. I work, then I stop and think again.

I go about my day and realize the silence. The reasons.

Answers. Dharma in the silence.

Tears.

Awake.

Accept the universe as it is. Accept the words, the thoughts, the diversity, the preferences.

Awake.


... and this too. Calm, acceptance and inner peace.

Fully awake.

Thank you Kyonin

Willow

Rich
05-16-2012, 11:02 AM
But just talking about this now... it falls like a lump of coal at my feet. :(

Gassho, kojip

Yes, I feel the same. The dharma king was right. (and taigu is pretty cool too :)

Omoi Otoshi
05-16-2012, 04:17 PM
Yes, but sometimes expressing oneself in words is necessary to realize the emptiness of words, at least for me. Sometimes, it's only when I express something in words that things fall into place. And sometimes when I say something out loud, I understand how flawed my understanding was.

Silence sometimes speak volumes.
Words sometimes speak silence.

Gassho,
Pontus

Jundo
05-16-2012, 06:12 PM
Words and Buddhist Ideas alone are not barriers!

Dogen ... the master wordsmith ... held well expressed language to be the very essence of Buddhist Truths. For Dogen, suchness was not a matter of rejecting or embracing silence or speaking (there are right moments for each) ... but of how what is said, the well turned and turning phrase. The right words and Buddhist ideas do not simply describe Truth, but dance Truth itself, are Truth Dancing.

Properly Illuminated words are not simply 'the finger pointing at the moon which cannot be described in words'. Enlightened words are the Very Moonlight.

Open any page of Shobogeno, sentence by rich sentence, and one realizes that Dogen did not see words as an obstruction ... but only words of ignorance as obstructing, and Wise Words As Realization Realizing!

Zen Teacher David Loy talks about this, quoting the great Dogenologist Prof. Hee-Jin Kim ...


Dogen's revaluation of commonplace Buddhist metaphors in particular leaves us no doubt about his understanding of language .... Concepts, metaphors, parables, and so forth are not just instrumental, convenient means to communicate truth, for they themselves manifest the truth-or rather, since that is still too dualistic, they themselves are the truth that we need to realize. "Metaphor in Dogen's sense is not that which points to something other than itself, but that in which something realizes itself," summarizes Kim. "In short, the symbol is not a means to edification but an end in itself-the workings of ultimate truth." As Dogen himself puts it in the Muchu-setsumu ... : "The Buddha-dharma, even if it is a metaphor, is ultimate reality." If I do not try to get some graspable truth from the metaphor, it can be a way my mind consummates itself: although symbols can be redeemed only by mind, the mind does not function in a vacuum but is activated by-or as-symbols.

In the Sansuikyo fascicle, Dogen criticizes those who have only an instrumentalist view of language and who think that koans are simply nonsensical ways to cut off thought: "How pitiable are they who are unaware that discriminating thought is words and phrases, and that words and phrases liberate discriminating thought." What a challenge to the traditional Buddhist dualism between language and reality: the goal is not to eliminate concepts but to liberate them! Despite their problematical aspects, "words are not essentially different from things, events, or beings-all 'alive' in Dogen's thought."

... [Dogen] shows us that words and metaphors can be understood not just as instrumentally trying to grasp and convey truth (and therefore dualistically interfering with our realization of some truth that transcends words), but as being the truth-that is, as being one of the many ways that Buddha-nature is. To the many dualisms that Nagarjuna deconstructs, then, Dogen explicitly adds one more: he denies the dualism between language and the world. If we are the ones who dualize, why blame the victims? A birdsong, a temple bell ringing, a flower blooming, and Dogen's transpositions, too, blossoming for us as we read them: if we do not dualize between world and word, then we can experience the Buddha-dharma-our own "empty" nature-presencing and playing in each.
http://www.thezensite.com/ZenEssays/Dog ... gainst.htm (http://http://www.thezensite.com/ZenEssays/DogenStudies/LanguageAgainst.htm)


Gassho, J

Rich
05-16-2012, 07:17 PM
Thanks Jundo, for pointing this out.

RichardH
05-16-2012, 08:28 PM
Hi Jundo.. could you please have a word for this?....

Suchness... isness.. not-two.. is non-dukkha. For a long time for me there was only two-ness.. and that two-ness is Dukkha.. dissatisfaction.. It is the two-ness of wanting this moment to be other than it is. When caught up in that dukkha... that two-ness, talk of "suchness" is just talk. I struggled like a mule for years before finally being like Oscar Wilde on his deathbed.. looking at the ugly wallpaper.. and saying 'one of us has to go".... and then there was non-dukkha.. and not-two... or as Taigu says in his talks on the oxherding pictures.. no "watcher". So no watcher.. no one to see my own funeral. But, of course ..the watcher.... and wanting this moment to be other than it is.. on at least some subtle level, comes back, and there is dukkha... again. and that's the way it goes. So my question is about integrating both ...suchness, and non-dukkha, and suchness effectively eclipsed by greed hatred and delusion.... how to integrate both Dukkha and non-dukkha? ...and just understanding they are one nature is of little use when greed hatred and delusion hold sway. It is little more than blessing the marriage after the elopement. This koan seems to speak to realizing a simpler experiential integration.. apart from just an acknowledgement. .. There is a hint.. a flash.. but I am too brutish... grrrrrrr.

Gassho Kojip.

alan.r
05-16-2012, 09:47 PM
Hi Jundo.. could you please have a word for this?....

Suchness... isness.. not-two.. is non-dukkha. For a long time for me there was only two-ness.. and that two-ness is Dukkha.. dissatisfaction.. It is the two-ness of wanting this moment to be other than it is. When caught up in that dukkha... that two-ness, talk of "suchness" is just talk. I struggled like a mule for years before finally being like Oscar Wilde on his deathbed.. looking at the ugly wallpaper.. and saying 'one of us has to go".... and then there was non-dukkha.. and not-two... or as Taigu says in his talks on the oxherding pictures.. no "watcher". So no watcher.. no one to see my own funeral. But, of course ..the watcher.... and wanting this moment to be other than it is.. on at least some subtle level, comes back, and there is dukkha... again. and that's the way it goes. So my question is about integrating both ...suchness, and non-dukkha, and suchness effectively eclipsed by greed hatred and delusion.... how to integrate both Dukkha and non-dukkha? ...and just understanding they are one nature is of little use when greed hatred and delusion hold sway. It is little more than blessing the marriage after the elopement. This koan seems to speak to realizing a simpler experiential integration.. apart from just an acknowledgement. .. There is a hint.. a flash.. but I am too brutish... grrrrrrr.

Gassho Kojip.

Hi Kojip,

I know you're asking Jundo, but I thought I'd chime in. I agree, intellectually understanding that good and bad are two faces of the same coin is somewhat worthless. Is this your question? How does intellectually understand of this truth matter/help? I don't know, I'm asking; I can't quite parse this question. What does simpler experiential integration mean? Simpler than what? I'm sure Jundo's words will be better, but here is Shunryu Suzuki, a passage I've been rereading lately and which seems to pertain to this:

We should find perfect existence through imperfect existence. We should find perfection in imperfection. For us, complete perfection is not different from imperfection [...] We should find the truth in this world, through our difficulties, through our suffering. This is the basic teaching of Buddhism. Pleasure is not different from difficulty. Good is not different from bad. Bad is good; good is bad. They are two sides of the same coin. That is right understanding of practice, and the right understanding of our life. So to find pleasure in suffering is the only way to accept of the truth of transiency [...] This is the basic teaching of how to live in this world. Whatever you may feel about it, you have to accept it.

-Zen Mind, Begginer's Mind 92.

When you say, suffering is all gone, whose suffering has disappeared?

When you say, suffering has come back, whose suffering has returned?

Anyway, darkness into darkness.

Gassho,
Alan

RichardH
05-16-2012, 11:37 PM
We should find perfect existence through imperfect existence. We should find perfection in imperfection. For us, complete perfection is not different from imperfection [...] We should find the truth in this world, through our difficulties, through our suffering. This is the basic teaching of Buddhism. Pleasure is not different from difficulty. Good is not different from bad. Bad is good; good is bad. They are two sides of the same coin. That is right understanding of practice, and the right understanding of our life. So to find pleasure in suffering is the only way to accept of the truth of transiency [...] This is the basic teaching of how to live in this world. Whatever you may feel about it, you have to accept it.

This still sounds like getting something to me. "Acceptance" is going from here to there. Acceptance as acceptance, and non-acceptance as non-acceptance.. ....that is not going from here to there. That is this thing.




When you say, suffering is all gone, whose suffering has disappeared?

When you say, suffering has come back, whose suffering has returned?



Suffering as in back pain ?.... sure. But Dukkha.. is the lived sense (illusory or not) of 'I" apart... there is no such thing as realized no-self dukkha. Dukkha is dukkha.. and non-dukkha is non-dukkha. that is the wall. I do not expect an answer here. Just .. being up against that wall where there is no going from here to there.

Dukkha is dukkha, non-dukkha is non-dukkha.... Nirvana is not other than Samsara... but nirvana is nirvana.. and samsara is samsara. That is where this koan leaves me...

it's not as fussy a matter as it sounds.. it is very direct for me.


gassho. kojip

Jundo
05-17-2012, 01:10 AM
Hi Jundo.. could you please have a word for this?....

Suchness... isness.. not-two.. is non-dukkha. For a long time for me there was only two-ness.. and that two-ness is Dukkha.. dissatisfaction.. It is the two-ness of wanting this moment to be other than it is. ... So my question is about integrating both ...suchness, and non-dukkha, and suchness effectively eclipsed by greed hatred and delusion.... how to integrate both Dukkha and non-dukkha? ...and just understanding they are one nature is of little use when greed hatred and delusion hold sway.

Ah, two sides of the no sided coin ... samsara is nirvana, nirvana precisely samsara.

That's why this is Practice-Realization ... just like painting. You are an artist. Did you learn to paint in a day? Have you actually gotten better at it over the years even though each painting is one by one?

So, here is how I live this in life.

In Zazen, one experiences (A) a realm with no thought of this or that, something to add or take away, me and you ... free of conflict, flowing, whole.

And then there is (B) day to day messy life, places to go and people to see, always something in need of doing or fixing or which I wish were otherwise than what is, me bumping into you, frictions great and small, a million sometimes beautiful and sometimes horribly ugly pieces ... flowers and weeds, peace and war.

The state of wholeness (A) is lovely ... but a mistake to think that only such is freedom from Dukkha. In turn (B) is Dukkha, but it is a mistake to think it is or need only be experienced so.

So, for the experienced Zen practitioner, it is possible to learn to "flip a switch" to move mentally and physically, at will at various moments in life, between (A) and (B). Shikantaza Zazen is the vehicle that teaches us this skill. When (B) gets too hectic, ugly, fearful or any time ... switch to (A). We learn this trick.

However, in Shikantaza, one also learns another view and taste (C) ... (or better said in 'Zen Speak', Not-A-Not-B :) ) ... where (A) is shining right through and through (B) like the white, open, whole canvas that holds all that is painted upon it. As (A) shines in silent illumination, (B) becomes translucent ... there is a Peace of One Piece which holds all the million broken pieces of life. So, more and more one might experience, for example, a "messy life" simultaneously lit by a certain Purity which comes from dropping all thought of clean, dirty, pure or impure ... places to go and people to see, simultaneously with the experience of no place in need of going and constant total arrival ... working to make things better, stop the war and cure the diseases, even while tasting that things are just as they are with nothing to add or take away ... you and me and frictions, simultaneously free of you and me and frictions ... a Beauty and Wholeness that somehow sweeps up and holds both the beautiful and ugly ... a One Piece Peace that is peace and war and all the broken pieces ... ALL AT ONCE, AS ONE.

The canvas is there, but needs the painting to manifest life. The painting of beauty and ugliness is there, always the canvas holding all together. How to come and experience this more and more? Zazen ... Painting life, Practice.

Something like that. Pardon these very imprecise words.

To quote again Suzuki Roshi ....


We should find perfect existence through imperfect existence. We should find perfection in imperfection. For us, complete perfection is not different from imperfection [...] We should find the truth in this world, through our difficulties, through our suffering. This is the basic teaching of Buddhism. Pleasure is not different from difficulty. Good is not different from bad. Bad is good; good is bad. They are two sides of the same coin.

-Zen Mind, Begginer's Mind 92.

Gassho, J

PS - For those not familiar with the term "Dukkha" ... look here ...


No one English word captures the full depth and range of the Pali term, Dukkha. It is sometimes rendered as “suffering,” as in “life is suffering.” But perhaps it’s better expressed as “dissatisfaction,” “anxiety,” “disappointment,” “unease at perfection,” or “frustration” — terms that wonderfully convey a subtlety of meaning.

In a nutshell, your “self” wishes this world to be X, yet this world is not X. The mental state that may result to the “self” from this disparity is Dukkha.

viewtopic.php?f=21&t=2942 (http://http://www.treeleaf.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=2942)

RichardH
05-17-2012, 03:04 AM
Those are very precise words, Jundo. The perfect words in fact. Thank you.

Gassho, Kojip.

Koshin
05-17-2012, 04:20 AM
Thank you Jundo, great way to explain this

Gassho

Omoi Otoshi
05-17-2012, 05:27 AM
Thank you Jundo,
I liked that explanation very much.

Gassho,
Pontus

Shokai
05-17-2012, 11:35 AM
Thank you Jundo, Arthur Murray could not have put it better :D

Shokai
05-17-2012, 11:36 AM
But of course, you realize Ginger Rogers could do it backwards and in high heels :lol:

TomB
05-17-2012, 12:58 PM
......................gassho...................... ....

Tom

Taigu
05-17-2012, 01:56 PM
what kills the watcher
is the beauty
of it all


gassho


T.

Taigu
05-17-2012, 01:57 PM
Ginger Rogers is so...


gassho


T.

ScottM
05-17-2012, 06:35 PM
Can you describe a problem or incident in your life, now or in the past ... a situation that is/was very hard ... that your head was filled with thoughts and emotions about, and that you resisted or hated very much ... but would have/did/might experience very differently by just being "without words", just allowing and not fighting?

Yes, I can think of a few situations like that...EVERY DAY! The practice of shikantaza has allowed me to directly engage this "without words" approach and it has had amazing results in my life, but by trying to do absolutely nothing but sit. It was very hard for awhile and still is some days...to let thoughts drift in and out without trying to engage them, fix them, or find the perfect solution. But I encounter this type of thinking all the time and in certain situations it is very hard to deal with, especially during recent struggles with depression. My mind tries to figure out how to fix the depression rather than to just be with it...but does that mean I don't go to a doctor and (in my case) take medications to help? Of course not! I did go and do take meds to help. To try to fix them is wrong thinking...to suffer and not seek medical assistance is also the wrong view (for me....others may differ)...all while sitting and trying to achieve nothing. The thoughts, yes they are overwhelming, but I do not have to engage them and they are not "me". The silence is truly golden, but I don't mean the thoughts go away...they often don't...I mean the silence of not responding to them as I practice shikantaza. Nothingness...wholeness...all at once.

Gassho,
Dosho

Koshin
05-17-2012, 09:51 PM
Oh yes, the incessant chatter inside my mind is something I live with everyday ... little by little, through Zazen, I try to silence those voices that judge, that comment, that like or dislike, and generally interfere with the perception of things in this moment, as they are ... That does not mean I try to stop thinking, but I try hear a little bit more, to leave the reality talk with her voice without words, so that I can experience it more clearly, allowing, not fighting. It is not an easy thing to do, as a newbie, but anyway, I keep on trying.

As Dosho says, I am not my thoughts, and that's something I have/had a hard time understanding (or non-understanding), since I'm one of those people in love with my own perception of myself, my own ego. Realizing the accidental nature of my own self, of my own existence is/was something hard to do, but at the same time it's soothing. In those rare moments of silence inside my head, these little sparks of reality, of understanding, come by themselves. I don't know what those little sparks really mean, I just smile :)

Gassho

RichardH
05-18-2012, 01:56 AM
what kills the watcher
is the beauty
of it all


gassho


T.

I feel ready to accept this..

It is different than the disciplinarian style of Zazen I was taught, and am accustomed to. Through the strict keeping of form.. "wanting this moment to be other than it is" .. hits the wall.. and is gathered into a single ball with the whole body and mind.. until it is total, and gives way. It is not gentle... and maybe it is no way to really kill the watcher... maybe it just traumatizes him into hiding.


Gassho. and thank you. Kojip.

Taigu
05-18-2012, 10:20 AM
Hi Kojip,

This is also my background, this rigid militaristic style...and then, stuck, utterly stuck, in pain and stiff to the very core I had no other choice than to find my teacher who pointed to the non-moon.

Non-doing.

Non doing.

Waking up to the fact that I am over-doing.

Awakening cannot be the fruit of a personal effort, it is a gift unveiled by the ten thousand dharmas coming forth and enlightening the self (the beauty of it all)

Let's all read Genjokoan again and again


let's all give flesh and blood to it

Let's allow it to be our very flesh and bones


gassho


T.

alan.r
05-18-2012, 03:19 PM
Jundo, what a wonderful teaching. Thank you so much.

Gassho,
Alan

Risho
05-18-2012, 04:16 PM
Can you describe a problem or incident in your life, now or in the past ... a situation that is/was very hard ... that your head was filled with thoughts and emotions about, and that you resisted or hated very much ... but would have/did/might experience very differently by just being "without words", just allowing and not fighting?

Yes, I can think of a few situations like that...EVERY DAY! The practice of shikantaza has allowed me to directly engage this "without words" approach and it has had amazing results in my life, but by trying to do absolutely nothing but sit. It was very hard for awhile and still is some days...to let thoughts drift in and out without trying to engage them, fix them, or find the perfect solution. But I encounter this type of thinking all the time and in certain situations it is very hard to deal with, especially during recent struggles with depression. My mind tries to figure out how to fix the depression rather than to just be with it...but does that mean I don't go to a doctor and (in my case) take medications to help? Of course not! I did go and do take meds to help. To try to fix them is wrong thinking...to suffer and not seek medical assistance is also the wrong view (for me....others may differ)...all while sitting and trying to achieve nothing. The thoughts, yes they are overwhelming, but I do not have to engage them and they are not "me". The silence is truly golden, but I don't mean the thoughts go away...they often don't...I mean the silence of not responding to them as I practice shikantaza. Nothingness...wholeness...all at once.

Gassho,
Dosho

Wow man, thank you for sharing something so personal. Just going to a doctor to treat depression is an incredible step. My father is bi-polar, and to get him to take his medication at first was incredibly challenging. I went through a bout of severe depression, and I'm lucky to be here, a couple of months after finding out my dad had his condition. What's funny is that I never knew my real dad until after he got better through treatment, and now we are closer than ever, so I'm so thankful for his depression and mine because it showed me what was truly important.

Your sharing got me to thinking about how I post here. I think when I post stuff, I don't necessarily post superficially, but my posts can be "clean". Who am I? I constantly try to share more and more of myself with everyone here. I have barriers that I face that slows down my process of opening up, so thank you for that lesson.

Also, your point of your thoughts not being you is awesome because it is a slam to the pop-culture self-help nonsense (and I love shining the light on bs). lol In a way, we are our thoughts, but believing that we are not our thoughts is also a thought, and it opens up a whole new way of experiencing things. We filter everything through our mind, but this practice is indeed awesome to slowly observe that filter more and more.

Gassho,

Risho

Tb
05-18-2012, 04:33 PM
Can you describe a problem or incident in your life, now or in the past ... a situation that is/was very hard ... that your head was filled with thoughts and emotions about, and that you resisted or hated very much ... but would have/did/might experience very differently by just being "without words", just allowing and not fighting?

Yes, I can think of a few situations like that...EVERY DAY! The practice of shikantaza has allowed me to directly engage this "without words" approach and it has had amazing results in my life, but by trying to do absolutely nothing but sit. It was very hard for awhile and still is some days...to let thoughts drift in and out without trying to engage them, fix them, or find the perfect solution. But I encounter this type of thinking all the time and in certain situations it is very hard to deal with, especially during recent struggles with depression. My mind tries to figure out how to fix the depression rather than to just be with it...but does that mean I don't go to a doctor and (in my case) take medications to help? Of course not! I did go and do take meds to help. To try to fix them is wrong thinking...to suffer and not seek medical assistance is also the wrong view (for me....others may differ)...all while sitting and trying to achieve nothing. The thoughts, yes they are overwhelming, but I do not have to engage them and they are not "me". The silence is truly golden, but I don't mean the thoughts go away...they often don't...I mean the silence of not responding to them as I practice shikantaza. Nothingness...wholeness...all at once.

Gassho,
Dosho

Hi.

Yes, so true.
I would also like to add that even though it is never easy, i feel, in my humble experience, it gets easier and easier, like finding you way on a road often traveled.

Mtfbwy
Fugen

Shogen
05-20-2012, 02:36 PM
what kills the watcher
is the beauty
of it all


gassho


T.

Does beauty die with the watcher?
gassho shogen

BrianW
05-20-2012, 04:56 PM
Sorry to be a bit late to the party on this one...


At the core of the experiment, I would like to ask each member joining in this book club to post something each week ... some message ... just to signal to the others that we are all together. However, in posting your message ... you do not necessarily need to say anything (even a blank space as your posting is fine if that is what is sincerely felt), or a photograph, a poem, a song lyric, a cartoon, a story.

With Jundo's instructions in mind I thought of the following excerpt from a blog post I made some time ago:

But…hagiographies (i.e.,idealized stories) can also be a burden. When objective facts hit us in the face it can be devastating and our idealism unravels. Sometimes we are saved by “THAT” broken piece of reality and it becomes oddly comforting. Our “What was THAT all about?” becomes recognizable as simply “THAT.

Anyone interested may view the entire post here..... (the images in the post probably more "on target" than the words....click on for larger view.)

http://a-west-end-view.blogspot.com/2011/07/tellin-stories.html

Gassho,
Jisen/BrianW

Brian Roessler
05-21-2012, 08:14 PM
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51ECDDBRAHL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

Myoshin
05-22-2012, 01:04 PM
beautiful picture lol
Even a car is a phenomena, Dharma everywhere

Koshin
05-23-2012, 02:03 PM
Good picture :)

Ola Nelsson
05-23-2012, 06:52 PM
Im reading.. But without Jundos leading question i wouldn't understand it.. I came to think of my mothers death and all the feelings I had when it happened. Rage, sadness and bitterness but acceptance..? I have a long way to go..

Gassho
/Ola

Rich
05-23-2012, 07:48 PM
Im reading.. But without Jundos leading question i wouldn't understand it.. I came to think of my mothers death and all the feelings I had when it happened. Rage, sadness and bitterness but acceptance..? I have a long way to go..

Gassho
/Ola

Sorry about your moms death. We all have a long way to go and it takes time.

Jigetsu
05-24-2012, 09:50 PM
When my youngest child was still a toddler, she fought a bout with MRSA for just over a year. Every time we'd take her to the ER, every time we'd get a positive diagnosis, I would panic. I would be angry, sad, both praying to any god that would hear me and cursing them at the same time for making her go through this.

A different medicine every time, checking for new sores every day, convincing myself that if I didn't keep constant vigil she would die.

The truth of the matter, is that had I stayed silent, smiling, letting the doctors do what they do, the outcome would have been exactly the same. Instead, I raged on the inside, and on the outside. In the end, it is as it was, as it was always going to be.

wamoroney
05-27-2012, 12:21 AM
I felt his father weep
as the darma king
walked through me

Ola Nelsson
05-30-2012, 05:30 PM
When my youngest child was still a toddler, she fought a bout with MRSA for just over a year. Every time we'd take her to the ER, every time we'd get a positive diagnosis, I would panic. I would be angry, sad, both praying to any god that would hear me and cursing them at the same time for making her go through this.

A different medicine every time, checking for new sores every day, convincing myself that if I didn't keep constant vigil she would die.

The truth of the matter, is that had I stayed silent, smiling, letting the doctors do what they do, the outcome would have been exactly the same. Instead, I raged on the inside, and on the outside. In the end, it is as it was, as it was always going to be.

Gassho
/Ola

Koshin
05-30-2012, 06:13 PM
When my youngest child was still a toddler, she fought a bout with MRSA for just over a year. Every time we'd take her to the ER, every time we'd get a positive diagnosis, I would panic. I would be angry, sad, both praying to any god that would hear me and cursing them at the same time for making her go through this.

A different medicine every time, checking for new sores every day, convincing myself that if I didn't keep constant vigil she would die.

The truth of the matter, is that had I stayed silent, smiling, letting the doctors do what they do, the outcome would have been exactly the same. Instead, I raged on the inside, and on the outside. In the end, it is as it was, as it was always going to be.


Thanks for sharing Jigetsu... a perfect example

Gassho

Koshin
05-30-2012, 06:16 PM
Im reading.. But without Jundos leading question i wouldn't understand it.. I came to think of my mothers death and all the feelings I had when it happened. Rage, sadness and bitterness but acceptance..? I have a long way to go..

Gassho
/Ola

I wouldn't understand it without Jundo and all Treeleafers' posts too :wink:
We all have a long way to go...to nowhere. Thanks for sharing

Gassho

Ray
05-30-2012, 09:16 PM
I have meant to post my experience many times but would read through the thread and would get absorbed in other people's experiences to the point i had nothing to say. I really found that most people really had such insightful things to share.

My limited understanding is that the budha did not utter a word in this teaching in order to teach that if you are waiting for "something to happen or something amazing to be said" that you have missed the bus.

My experience of adding things that do not need to be said is the over justification and over explaning of my actions in the workplace or at home when it is not necessary. Most of the time it is not and i am only defending the false self. I do understand that sometimes one may need to explain and justify but most of the time it is not so important. It is like the monk in the story that was falsly blamed by the village for getting a young girl pregnant and he would respond by saying "is that so?" he then looked after a baby with all the love and care as if it were his own. When the real father was found , they all came to say sorry and the entire village felt very bad he responded by saying"is that so?"

In my limited view i feel He is an inspiration to my practice.

Gassho