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View Full Version : 9/24 TRANSMISSION of the LIGHT: to Kapimala



Jundo
09-24-2010, 01:40 AM
Can one find the sacred magic which is usually seen as but the "ordinary"?

Can you transform your 'self' in this instant ... into the sea, the mountains, rivers and great earth too, hedges, walls, tiles and pebbles, bugs and dragons? Truly, you are that all along ... and that just you ... seen or not. So, what is there to transform?

You ordinary mind, just as it is, is that all along. But do not think there is thus nothing to "transform".

Can you find that even the smallest atoms are each and all boundless things, not subject to number or limit?

Cook from page 83

Hixon from page 82 (I thought Hixon's rather simple "sea and waves" missed some of the subtlety and multi-faceted beauty of Keizan's rich vision this week).

Myozan Kodo
09-24-2010, 08:21 PM
Reality is an enclosed and complete system, with all parts integral to it. Nothing can get outside reality. It is complete. We are not outside it, although sometimes we have the delusion that we are. Kapimala’s ego dissolves in the great ocean that is this reality, as he discovers he is not hovering outside it, but is part of it and subject to its rules.

Taylor
09-25-2010, 02:05 AM
Mountains are just mountains - we miss the vastness!

Mountains are not mountains - it's a lie!

Mountains are just mountains - Finally!

You, us, them, I, me. All Buddha. Easy to say, right? You, us, them, I, me. All Emptiness. But don't get caught in it! Then the land of milk and honey will never be ours, we will deny it.

What does the land of milk and honey taste like? Hot, summer days. Lusty spring evenings. Lonely winter nights. Apathetic fall afternoons. Sometimes bitter, sometimes sweet. All good for the digestion if we realize, really, there is no dish on the menu expect what's in front of us. Life only gives one plate at a time, so dig into this momentary meal while you can!

Mmmmmm popcorn,
Taylor

Jundo
09-25-2010, 02:29 AM
Mountains are just mountains - we miss the vastness!

Mountains are not mountains - it's a lie!

Mountains are just mountains - Finally!

You, us, them, I, me. All Buddha. Easy to say, right? You, us, them, I, me. All Emptiness. But don't get caught in it! Then the land of milk and honey will never be ours, we will deny it.

What does the land of milk and honey taste like? Hot, summer days. Lusty spring evenings. Lonely winter nights. Apathetic fall afternoons. Sometimes bitter, sometimes sweet. All good for the digestion if we realize, really, there is no dish on the menu expect what's in front of us. Life only gives one plate at a time, so dig into this momentary meal while you can!

Mmmmmm popcorn,
Taylor

Mmmmmm popcorn. :wink:

Tb
09-25-2010, 06:37 AM
Hi.


When Banzan was walking through a market he overheard a conversation between a butcher and his customer.

"Give me the best piece of meat you have," said the customer.

"Everything in my shop is the best," replied the butcher. "You cannot find here any piece of meat that is not the best."
Edit: part of story 31 in 101 zenstories, Everything is best.

It's all good practice.

Mtfbwy
Fugen

Jundo
09-25-2010, 12:34 PM
"Everything in my shop is the best," replied the butcher. "You cannot find here any piece of meat that is not the best."

It's all good practice.

Mtfbwy
Fugen

So long as one also knows the difference between week old dog bones and fresh filet.

Myoku
09-25-2010, 05:00 PM
"Everything appears as waves on the ocean", what else could be said without the danger of misleading the mind. We all have to find out ourselves anyway. Heard that a hundred times ? Its not getting worse just because its being heard often.

_()_
Peter

Shohei
09-26-2010, 01:07 PM
Hiyas
Even the most elaborate magic trick and supernatural power is contained with in this right here, right now - in reality.
The real magic is fully realizing it.

"Only when fully awake as the mirror-like Ocean of Reality, can I participate in all sacred traditions with out becoming a mere trickster, as Kapimala had become before meeting face to face with reality ocean in the form of his destined master."

Gassho
Shohei

Myoku
09-27-2010, 06:24 AM
There is one small part I'm not sure I get it at all...

Hixon, pg 84

"Only face to face with the living buddha can we truly meet reality ocean"

I assume I constantly live in and meet reality ocean; though I get that truly meeting it depends on my state of mind, or of this mind being fully present. What does Hixon meant to say ?

_()_
Peter

Rich
09-28-2010, 11:07 AM
What is it?

Since reality ocean also includes all thoughts, feelings, perceptions - What is it? helps me to accept and sweep (as Taigu says) them away.

/Rich

Shogen
09-29-2010, 06:22 AM
Form is Emptiness
Emptiness is Form
Relative or Absolute but neither
Not one nor two
Buddha!
Gassho zak

Shogen
09-29-2010, 07:10 AM
There is one small part I'm not sure I get it at all...

Hixon, pg 84

"Only face to face with the living buddha can we truly meet reality ocean"

I assume I constantly live in and meet reality ocean; though I get that truly meeting it depends on my state of mind, or of this mind being fully present. What does Hixon meant to say ?

_()_
Peter

Peter,
When you really, really, really, really drop "I" what face is in the mirror? Gassho zak

Myoku
09-30-2010, 03:57 PM
Thank you zak, I appreciate it!
Gassho
Peter

BrianW
09-30-2010, 10:40 PM
The readings sparked my imagination this week and found my thoughts racing in many different directions. Nevertheless, one concept I seemed to keep returning to is that of power. Kapimala seems to be a powerful “shaman” and, for example, can transform himself into an enormous dragon. Others are impressed by his skills as he has 3,000 followers. Yet Kapimala’s powers are just a sham as his knowledge is superficial and he does not understand reality at its deepest levels. When asked by Ashvaghosa if he could transform the “Ocean of Reality”, Kapimala does not even know what Ashvaghosa is talking about. He is able to alter the waves on this ocean, but has no understanding of the ocean itself.

Wouldn’t we all be impressed by Kapimala’s powers today? How often are we fooled and impressed by outward manifestations of what is perceived as power? Nevertheless, it is a deep understanding, which may be less evident to our senses, that is of greatest significance. What is the true mojo...causing an enormous dragon to rise in the sky in the air or experiencing the mirror like Ocean of Reality?

Gassho,
Jisen/BrianW

ScottM
10-01-2010, 04:56 AM
Hi all,

I am here, reading along, but still finding the material hard to interpret. I feel like it's one of those pictures that has a hidden image if you look at it a certain way and figure I'll eventually see "it". However, that may be a bad example to emulate since I have never seen one of those images! In both instances, I may be trying too hard and will just read along and learn from your perspectives.

Forgive me if this has been raised already, but to what extent do buddhists of various types take these stories literally? My initial impression is that these are legends and are not to be taken literally, but much of our culture will undoubtedly seem a bit odd thousands of years from now.

Gassho,
Dosho

Jundo
10-01-2010, 06:24 AM
Forgive me if this has been raised already, but to what extent do buddhists of various types take these stories literally? My initial impression is that these are legends and are not to be taken literally, but much of our culture will undoubtedly seem a bit odd thousands of years from now.

Gassho,
Dosho

Well, to ancient minds, myths and legends were taken by most, I suppose, as literally "real" or nearly so. The same sense of "historical fact" (still an ambiguous concept, in the eye of the historian quite often) did not exist as it does today. Now, we may be tempted to take these legends and accounts as just fictional or highly fantastic and exaggerated stories.

However, the perspectives and timeless experiences that they are pointing us toward are as real as real can be!

Gassho, Jundo

Jundo
10-01-2010, 06:30 AM
Forgive me if this has been raised already, but to what extent do buddhists of various types take these stories literally? My initial impression is that these are legends and are not to be taken literally, but much of our culture will undoubtedly seem a bit odd thousands of years from now.

Gassho,
Dosho

Well, to ancient minds, myths and legends were taken by most, I suppose, as literally "real" or nearly so. The same sense of "historical fact" (still an ambiguous concept, in the eye of the historian quite often) did not exist as it does today. Now, we may be tempted to take these legends and accounts as just fictional or highly fantastic and exaggerated stories.

However, the perspectives and timeless experiences that they are pointing us toward are as real as real can be!

So, could someone in the past literally "transform the ocean" or "turn into a dragon" as described in the text? No, or I strongly doubt it. However, can each one of us literally "transform the ocean" and "turn into a dragon" through these practices? YES FOR SURE!


Gassho, Jundo

Kyrillos
10-02-2010, 09:00 PM
Having waded through "The Lives of the Saints" of both the Catholic and the Eastern Orthodox churches I can tell you that Buddhist stories do not have a corner on hyperbole in their hagiography. Now I don't recall any of the Western Saints turning themselves "into" dragons, but there were a couple who slew dragons!!! :roll: They also gave lengthy sermons after their heads were chopped off, shattered poisoned wine goblets with a prayer, flew through the air with the greatest of ease, etc., etc. All showing, as Kapimala did, a mastery over the natural world. As marvelous as such things may be they are really only playing as is pointed out in the commentary pointing to Chinese Master Hsueh-feng.

I was taken with that particular commentary as shown in Nixon's book, especially the part about using the mirror and becoming fully awake as the mirror-like Ocean of Reality. It spoke to me deeply about the Ocean of Reality being "recognized as the conscious heart of the human being" with its "waves of wisdom and compassion - guiding, protecting, and maturing precious human persons by means of all sacred traditions...". There is that place, that state, that understand that moves beyond the forms we all may jealously and zealously guard and promote and from where we will be able to openly and compassionately live even still using those very same forms. No need to discard the forms, just know what is truly behind them and how to express them truly.

Gassho,

Seishin Kyrill

Hogo
10-06-2010, 02:53 PM
Now you see it! **Poof** Now you don't!
:shock:

AlanLa
10-11-2010, 03:28 PM
Well, the intermission really threw me off my weekly reading schedule here, so now I have some catching up to do.

Kapimala may have been able to transform the ocean, but Ashvoghosa helped him learn how to surf the ocean waves.
http://i495.photobucket.com/albums/rr314/alwchair/kapimalasurfing.jpg
It's not about going beyond or doing tricks, it's about creatively dealing with what is here in reality. Life is filled with big and small waves, and since I can't transform them, or the ocean, all I am trying to do is learn how to surf them. And my understanding of surfing is getting into the wave (reality of life), as the picture shows, not just gliding over the surface.

Fuken
12-19-2010, 12:09 AM
A demon~saint. My kind of hero.