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Inshin
03-27-2021, 04:11 PM
How do you balance the bodhicitta (way seeking mind, deep wish to transform the suffering for all beings) and the urgency of this fleeting life with the helplessness that arises from the realisation of how vast samsara is?

I know every act of kindness and generosity matters, yet helping others seem a bit like a palliative care and not a cure, just improving the conditions of samsara.

Working with own delusions, attachements and defilements is tremendous job itself, how is the Bodhisattva's path even possible?

Gassho
Sat

Jishin
03-27-2021, 04:26 PM
Here is a picture of my wife.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210327/db2546c9e8963c8dfd720b58212bdba2.jpg

Gassho, Jishin, __/stlah\__

Juki
03-27-2021, 04:42 PM
I can't remember who said that there are no enlightened people, only enlightened action. If you start from that premise, it seems like you follow the Bodhisattva path, with the hope that your enlightened action inspires others toward the same behavior. You can't do it (end samsara for everyone) by yourself.

Gassho,
Juki

sat today and lah

Risho
03-27-2021, 04:43 PM
Jishin you lucky man :)

I feel like the best Zen goals are impossible; correction: the best goals are impossivlble; they keep us going in the right direction and practice never ends

To me itís all in the little things day day by day; all of our little actions add up; to be pedantic, that decision to not have that donut adds up to a big deal over time. That ability to not react in anger to someone who cuts us off in traffic also adds up.

Worrying that we arenít good enough for this path is just tge ego trying to dissyuade us. We must go forward despite our lack; in Genjokoan remember Dogen says not to wait to take action until you fully know everything or youíd never get anything done.

To me, and this is personal for everyone, one of my biggest ways is by doing the right things and just living as an example rather than actually saving anyone. Sometimes people need help; Iím not saying that; I mean I think it can tirn into a hero complex and we all know what needs to be done; most of it is simple, like not eating that donut (sort of like the Birdís nest rosgi story we read during jukai study) but itís not easy.

Still this world needs bodhisattvas so we keep going even though itís completely impossible

Iím sorry; Iím very wordy today lol

gassho

risho
-stlah

Inshin
03-27-2021, 04:44 PM
Here is a picture of my wife.

Gassho, Jishin, __/stlah\__

Your replies always crack me up [morehappy]
She's definitely your soul mate, you even look a bit alike. :)

Gassho
Sat

Jishin
03-27-2021, 05:06 PM
[emoji3]

Koushi
03-27-2021, 06:55 PM
yet helping others seem a bit like a palliative care and not a cure

Well, yes. I’m reading a book by Rōshi Joan Halifax called Standing at the Edge. One of the quotes that resonates is:


Helping, fixing, and serving represent three different ways of seeing life. When you help, you see life as weak. When you fix, you see life as broken. When you serve, you see life as whole.

The book itself touches on your question in the sense that for a lot of us, serving/helping can lead to overwhelm due to too much empathy or being unable to toe the line, so to speak. Well worth a read if you get the chance.

Gassho,
Koushi
STLaH

Inshin
03-27-2021, 06:59 PM
Well, yes. I’m reading a book by Rōshi Joan Halifax called Standing at the Edge. One of the quotes that resonates is:



The book itself touches on your question in the sense that for a lot of us, serving/helping can lead to overwhelm due to too much empathy or being unable to toe the line, so to speak. Well worth a read if you get the chance.

Gassho,
Koushi
STLaH

gassho2

Thank you for recommendation. I'll read it.

Gassho
Sat

Jakuden
03-27-2021, 07:08 PM
To save all sentient beings, though beings numberless

Can you tell I relate to this? I quote the four vows a lot.

If you have a realization that others' suffering is none other than your own, you have already answered this question, IMHO.

Gassho,
Jakuden
SatToday/LAH

Jundo
03-27-2021, 07:19 PM
How do you balance the bodhicitta (way seeking mind, deep wish to transform the suffering for all beings) and the urgency of this fleeting life with the helplessness that arises from the realisation of how vast samsara is?

I know every act of kindness and generosity matters, yet helping others seem a bit like a palliative care and not a cure, just improving the conditions of samsara.

Working with own delusions, attachements and defilements is tremendous job itself, how is the Bodhisattva's path even possible?

Gassho
Sat

Hi Inshin,

I think that the others have already said it so well. "To Save All Sentient Beings, Though Beings Numberless."

We cannot fix Samsara, just like I cannot stop all the weeds which rise in my garden every Spring. All we can do is pull them one by one, then bow.

We can teach and experience for ourself "Emptiness" (by softening and dropping our self), which is knowing that there was never Samsara, never any suffering Sentient Being, never you or me and never any weeds ... and yet, and yet, there are suffering Sentient Beings, weeds which grow, you and me, and thus much work to do. Weeds-no-weeds.

As a Buddhist, we know that we can never completely fix Samsara as we would want. However, we can want Samsara to be as it is, all while seeking to fix the aspects which we do not want at all ... wanting-non-wanting.

Likewise for our delusions and attachments ... "To Transform All Delusion Though Delusion Inexhaustible." We cannot do away with all attachments and delusions in Samsara, because Samsara is built of them as much as my house is built of wood and you are built of flesh and bone. Our world could not exist, our society and families and concepts of our own life could not exist without delusions and attachments.

However, once again, we can instantly see through all our delusions and attachments in Emptiness. There never were delusions and attachments at all, for there is nobody to be attached and nothing to be attached to too, as all attachment is Empty.

That said, there are delusions and attachments, and they are more weeds. Weeds-no-weeds. Keep them short, small and manageable as you can so that they do not overrun life's garden, pull the one's you can one by one. Yet, there never were any weeds at all.

Buddhism is not some school of psychology to fix all our problems. It is a school to help us realize that there never were any problems at all, even as we do our best to solve the problems we can and keep the rest small and ordinary.

Sorry to run long.

Gassho, J

STLah

Jundo
03-27-2021, 07:33 PM
PS - By the way, "Bodhicitta" can mean both the mind of Wisdom and the mind which seeks Wisdom ... the already enlightened mind and the mind that seeks enlightenment ... the mind without any weeds from the start, the mind that seeks to pull weeds ...

JimInBC
03-27-2021, 08:04 PM
For me, this quote is central to both my practice and my life:

No matter how much zazen we do, poor people do not become wealthy, and poverty does not become something easy to endure.
Kōshō Uchiyama
Opening the Hand of Thought

Gassho, Jim
ST/LaH

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Inshin
03-27-2021, 08:38 PM
Thank you everyone gassho2


If you have a realization that others' suffering is none other than your own, you have already answered this question

Suddenly the fact that when Buddha attained the way, all scientent beings attained the way too makes a little bit more sense.

Gassho
Sat

Tairin
03-27-2021, 09:03 PM
I am not going to be able to save all sentient beings from suffering because they are numberless but my hope is that through my every positive words, thoughts, and acts somehow the whole universe is a better place.

I recite both the Verse of Atonement and the Four Vows daily as a reminder to live gently and for the benefit of others

gassho2
Tairin
Sat today and lah

StoBird
03-27-2021, 09:09 PM
I had very many excuses. In my experience I selfishly thought I was alone in my suffering, that my suffering was necessarily great, and that was a big barrier to Bodhiccita. (what? You mean there are other people in their thirties suffering from depression or other neurodivergencies and addiction, even to the point of deaths of despair and seem to not “grow up” fast enough?—get a high paying job, get married, have kids, buy a house, or even move out of their parents basement etc...—and it’s very common these days?)

When I learned that my kind of suffering is very, very common and I wasn’t alone, the walls of self-pity dropped and that went a long way in realizing I was “living someone else’s dream” in that I have it extremely good and that I have very much to give. There is a lot to do so I try to get started in any way I can. There are very little excuses for me when people are living in war torn countries, suffering from poverty, suffering from all kinds of dislocations and some actually do need palliative care. A “I can’t do everything, so should I do nothing?” is a privileged conundrum to have.

For what it’s worth, I put it this way: If I found out I had terminal cancer and had months or weeks to live, the most noble thing I could do is not only to help family members get through my passing but join a support group and help others similar to my situation, and try to do it with love, joyousness and magnanimity. In a way, I find myself in that situation everyday, so I ask, why not start?

Also, sorry

Gassho,
Tom
Sat/Lah

Kyōsen
03-27-2021, 10:21 PM
I can't remember who said that there are no enlightened people, only enlightened action.

Sounds like a TL;DR of the Diamond Sutra

Gassho
Kyōsen
Sat|LAH

Risho
03-27-2021, 11:00 PM
Jakuden and Jundo gassho2

gassho

risho
-stlah

Shokai
03-28-2021, 12:47 AM
in Genjokoan remember Dogen says not to wait to take action until you fully know everything

Dogen also wrote in Genjokoan that samsara and nirvanna are the same thing. I don't know about fixing samsara. I just know you can't live outside samsara; same as you can't live outside life. But, with some appreciation for emptiness, impermanance and lack of independent living, we can learn to accept this truth.7048

gassho, Shokai
stlah

Washin
03-28-2021, 04:23 AM
Juki's comment on Shunryu Suzuki's quote about the enlightened beings/actions
resonates with me.

Somebody posted this elsewhere:


Plant the tree!
There is no village
where no flower grows.
The bodhi-mind will be penetrated
with the buddhas' mind,
even though we are of humble birth.

Dogen

Thus, I keep planting trees... gassho1

Gassho,
Washin
stlah

Tosei
03-28-2021, 11:44 AM
Thanks to all for this discussion. From a question we've all asked, to the answers/nonanswers we all know.

gassho


satlah

Doshin
03-28-2021, 06:23 PM
Very nice thread...

Be a good person and serve others as you are able.

Doshin
St

StoBird
03-29-2021, 07:18 AM
I would like to fully and completely apologize for my above post, it was arrogant and came across as mean.
I’ve always wished for better social skills...

Interesting and informative thread due to others input nonetheless.

Gasho,
Tom
Sat/Lah

Synjin
03-29-2021, 01:16 PM
Thank you everyone gassho2



Suddenly the fact that when Buddha attained the way, all scientent beings attained the way too makes a little bit more sense.

Gassho
Sat

Wonderfully put.

Jundo
03-29-2021, 07:10 PM
I would like to fully and completely apologize for my above post, it was arrogant and came across as mean.
I’ve always wished for better social skills...



It was fine. gassho1

Gassho, J

STLah

John.3
03-30-2021, 10:59 PM
Thank for the great topic. Lots of points that struck me and inspire me to grow in my practice. I'm grateful for this community.

Gassho,
John
Sat today

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Jundo
03-31-2021, 12:45 AM
This has inspired Kirk and my next episode of the "Zen of Everything" Podcast which will be ... Bodhicitta!

"Seek for it's enlightening" conversation later this week. [gassholook]

Gassho, Jundo

STLah

Shokai
03-31-2021, 01:04 AM
Looking forward to that next episode

gassho, shokai
stlah

Inshin
03-31-2021, 06:48 AM
This has inspired Kirk and my next episode of the "Zen of Everything" Podcast which will be ... Bodhicitta!

"Seek for it's enlightening" conversation later this week. [gassholook]

Gassho, Jundo

STLah

gassho2

Gassho
Sat

Margherita
04-04-2021, 04:29 PM
A quote from someone I can't remember anymore got stuck with me: if each of us would start cleaning the little piece of street in front of our house, the entire world would be clean.
I can do what I can do, and I can try doing it at the best of my possibility.
Basically, I try being in the moment, one with what is around, and do my best (but hey, I'm human, so I fail and I have to start again).

Gassho,
Mags ST

Jakuden
04-04-2021, 04:58 PM
A quote from someone I can't remember anymore got stuck with me: if each of us would start cleaning the little piece of street in front of our house, the entire world would be clean.
I can do what I can do, and I can try doing it at the best of my possibility.
Basically, I try being in the moment, one with what is around, and do my best (but hey, I'm human, so I fail and I have to start again).

Gassho,
Mags ST

[emoji120]

Gassho
Jakuden
SatToday


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Tai Shi
04-09-2021, 09:05 PM
I am making small decisions to help in seeking my own Bodhisattva path. Only three for now. First, to maintain daily sitting, second, to maintain Jundo's guidelines of only one two or three positive lines in a post, third, to only visit the group affiliations of my Unitarian Universalist ideology on Facebook. These are conditions not only set forth by Jundo, but my own recognition for other areas to be a personal choice to study and reflect.
Gassho
sat/ lah
Tai Shi

Tai Shi
04-09-2021, 09:26 PM
I have a suggestion Jundo. Please open up my Private Messaging so that I might contact Shokai, my advisor. I promise not to contact you or Kokuu. For others. Jundo has shut off my private messaging because I was sending too many to him and Kokuu. The nature of these tended to be more negative, and useless, so another, "I intend to be more positive." Please read this Jundo.
Gassho
sat/ lah
Tai Shi

Shokai
04-10-2021, 02:44 AM
but hey, I'm human, so I fail and I have to start again).
Fall down seven, get up eight gassho2

gassho, Shokai
stlah

Tai Shi
04-10-2021, 03:24 AM
Thank you Shokai reading a famous book insight meditation Loving Kindness. Happy to share what I learn. Should I do it tomorrow here?
Gassho
sat/ lah
Tai Shi


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Jundo
04-10-2021, 04:44 AM
I have a suggestion Jundo. Please open up my Private Messaging so that I might contact Shokai, my advisor. I promise not to contact you or Kokuu. For others. Jundo has shut off my private messaging because I was sending too many to him and Kokuu. The nature of these tended to be more negative, and useless, so another, "I intend to be more positive." Please read this Jundo.
Gassho
sat/ lah
Tai Shi

I did not shut anything, never closed, Tai Shi! You can message as always. :encouragement:

Gassho, Jundo

STLah

Tai Shi
04-13-2021, 12:49 PM
Shokai if you would like to meet sometime this week or tomorrow or anytime this week I would love to meet with you to discuss the art of giving and the Buddhist thoughts on this topic. So please contact me with a new link. I have deleted all my old messages to save space and make room for new messages. Thank you Shokai.
Gassho
sat/ lah
Tai Shi


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