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View Full Version : A Request to Sangha Members: "Three Sacred Sentences" Practice & No AI Posts



Jundo
08-30-2020, 07:30 AM
Dear All,

In Zen, it is important to untangle from our complex thoughts, simplify views and hold opinions lightly. As one practice in doing so, I am requesting that our members try to limit their Forum comments to about, more or less, three (3) well-chosen and heartfelt sentences. The purpose is to cause people to consider what they really need to say, to keep it short, simplify and to honor the dropping of opinions and extra ideas.

That said, the request is not a "rule" or set in stone in any way:

- Anyone who feels that they need more than three lines to express themselves about some topic is totally free and welcome to do so (We simply ask that they try to note, "Sorry, needed more than three sentences here" or "Sorry, needed to run long" or the like at the end of their post). If you have something you really want to say and share, please say it!

- The request is not being made of newcomers, just arrived to Treeleaf Sangha, during the first few months of their being here.

- It will not apply to some sections of our Forum where a bit more discussion is welcome (e.g., our "No Words" Book Club, the Art & Poetry Circles, our Precept reflections during Jukai, the "Beginner's Place" for newcomers, and the like).

- It is okay to add some colons ";" and parenthesis ( ), but let's not go overboard. :encouragement: However, quotes don't count, so please quote the writings of others all you wish. :reading: "More or less three" is fine, no need to be exact.

- It is just a request, with no kind of penalty or punishment attached in any way, and it will not be moderated. While it is purely voluntary, I am counting on the group spirit of Sangha members to lead them to join in voluntarily. I may offer privately a friendly reminder of the request from time to time to folks who seem to be heavy in thoughts.

- Folks who are neuro-diverse do not have to bother with this if it is a hardship for them, and should write as they need to write unless otherwise requested. It would be appreciated if, even so, a tiny "sorry, needed to run long" were placed at the end of long posts, the same as for everybody.

The reason for 3 is a bit arbitrary, but Buddhists traditionally like their "threes" ... like the Three Refuges (Buddha, Dharma, Sangha).

Thank you. This "Three Sacred Sentences" practice is an ongoing experiment in our Sangha as we see how it goes. Please give it a try!


~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

As well, we request that all postings have been written by you from your own heart, and not be AI generated. Thank you as well. An AI program summarizes very well why we request this:


AI usage in forums discussing Zen Buddhism may not be appropriate, for the following reasons:

1. Loss of Human Connection: Zen Buddhism emphasizes the importance of human interaction, genuine connections, and shared experiences in the process of spiritual growth. Using an AI to generate content may create a barrier to these genuine connections, as it lacks the ability to empathize or share personal experiences.

2. Limited Understanding of Zen: GPT-4's knowledge is based on the text it has been trained on, but Zen Buddhism is more than just words. The essence of Zen lies in the experiential understanding of its teachings, which an AI like GPT-4 cannot grasp or convey accurately.

3. Inability to Provide Personal Guidance: An essential aspect of Zen practice is the relationship between a student and a Zen master or teacher. GPT-4, being an AI, lacks the personal experience, intuition, and wisdom necessary to guide others on their spiritual journey, which can potentially lead to misunderstanding or misinterpretation of Zen teachings.

In conclusion, while GPT-4 is a remarkable technological achievement, its application in Zen Buddhism forums may hinder the genuine human connection, experiential understanding, and personal guidance that are vital to Zen practice. It is important to carefully consider the impact of AI on our spiritual journey and preserve the essence of Zen by prioritizing human interaction and mindfulness.


[domo] gassho1

Gassho, Jundo

(Sorry, needed to run long in the above) :p

SatTodayLentAHand

Onka
08-30-2020, 08:07 AM
I appreciate this statement and wording Jundo. It's well thought out and I agree that some kind of acknowledgement for needing to go over 3 sentences shouldn't be too much of a challenge for our neuro-diverse members or members with mental wellbeing challenges. I hope that they, like me see it as an acknowledgement and not an apology for being neuro-diverse or having mental wellbeing challenges. Finally I hope that we will all try to keep posts to the 3 sentences.
Gassho
Onka
*I acknowledge I went over 3 sentences. I will continue to try to keep my posts to 3 sentences as requested by my teacher Jundo.

Bion
08-30-2020, 12:32 PM
More than happy to abide by this! If anything, what itís done for me in the short time Iíve been here, is that itís made me think carefully about what I say and how I say it, to make sure Iím clear, respectful, considerate and brief, making it easy for others to read and understand me.

Thank you!

[emoji1374] SatToday

Victor
09-03-2020, 09:16 PM
Thank you, Jundo. I will do my best to honor this request.
Gassho,
V
ST

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Getchi
09-04-2020, 06:59 AM
Ooooh I like this,
forced tonne succinct.
We can do it!!!?!

Tai Shi
11-04-2020, 11:16 PM
Thank you Jundo for being you. I truly appreciate all that you have done for me! I have the little vase with the Heart Sutra on my alter! You have or maybe it has been me but by golly you have been every step you have helped so many of us! Never forget. A man who has friends is a rich man, and you have many friends. Just a guy.
Gassho
st/ lah
Tai Shi


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Shonin
12-23-2020, 02:06 AM
I was just wondering if I was missing something with everyone apologizing for running long(which to me a paragraph is nothing) and I was. I'll try to be more succinct in the future. My apologies.
Dave SAT/LAH

Jundo
07-15-2021, 12:05 AM
I am going to bump this post a bit, for ALL members (and I put myself on that list for sure), because it is an excellent little practice.

Truly, this is a powerful Zen practice about letting words and thoughts go a bit, simplifying ideas, not getting tangled, and is not some law or hard rule at all.

Of course, if someone really has something in their heart to say, and it is vital and cannot be said more concisely or silently, then say what one is called to say: no limit on words needed.

Sorry to run long.

Gassho, Jundo

SatTodayLAH

Timchenko_Oleg
07-15-2021, 03:25 AM
gassho1

Byokan
07-15-2021, 06:53 AM
The tree in the front garden.

Gassho, J

STLah

:D

[gassholook]

Gassho
Byokan

Bion
07-15-2021, 09:47 AM
Can i use koans to convey complex thoughts in relation to the topic? For example if i say "overflowing tea" it can refer to the koan about emptying the cup of thoughts and opinions before learning, which would relate to the topic, although perhaps not the best example. The goal being to stimulate thought between the koan concepts and the current topic while staying within the three sentances, or would these be too vague?
Gassho
David
Sat/lah

Assuming we all are familiar with the koans. I am not, so Iíd rather use my own simple words but make it brief! [emoji1]

[emoji1374] SatToday

Shinshi
07-15-2021, 06:15 PM
The tree in the front garden.

Gassho, J

STLah

Or, in a different vein.

Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra.

:)

Gassho, Shinshi

SaT-LaH

Kaishin
07-15-2021, 06:58 PM
Or, in a different vein.

Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra.

:)

Gassho, Shinshi

SaT-LaH

Hey, I actually got that reference! :)

-satToday

Koushi
07-16-2021, 12:33 AM
Or, in a different vein.

Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra.

:)

Gassho, Shinshi

SaT-LaH

When the walls fell gassho1

Gassho,
Koushi
ST

Tai Shi
07-16-2021, 05:02 PM
Long, here I vowed, grateful poetry longer, keep others short, positive, excuses spelling/typing. Great joy in realization that Zen is what I am, not what I practice, 7 years I learned thought practice, now I learn to be.
Gassho
sat/ lah
Tai Sho

Shokai
07-17-2021, 12:48 AM
When the walls fellNo, no, no, no no; that was Jeriko :D

gassho, Shokai
stlah

Bion
07-17-2021, 03:09 AM
No, no, no, no no; that was Jeriko :D

gassho, Shokai
stlah

Jericho was EXACTLY what I thought as well [emoji1787]

[emoji1374] SatToday

Kaisui
07-21-2021, 09:38 PM
Ah, thank you. I had been wondering why people were apologising for going over three sentences specifically. Jundo, could perhaps a link to this post be placed in the Recommended Threads each week, with the 'Re-MINDer on SIMPLICITY' (which is similar but does not mention/explain the three sentences 'rule' or the acknowledgement of running long)?

Gassho,
Charity
sat/lah

Jundo
07-22-2021, 12:03 AM
Ah, thank you. I had been wondering why people were apologising for going over three sentences specifically. Jundo, could perhaps a link to this post be placed in the Recommended Threads each week, with the 'Re-MINDer on SIMPLICITY' (which is similar but does not mention/explain the three sentences 'rule' or the acknowledgement of running long)?

Gassho,
Charity
sat/lah

Done! :)

Gassho, J

STLah

Kaisui
07-22-2021, 12:18 AM
Done! :)

Gassho, J

STLah

gassho1 [claps]

Gassho,
Charity
sat/lah

bakera3312
08-16-2021, 06:09 PM
gassho2

Thank you! I also wondered about this.

Gassho, Tony,

ST LAH

Tai Shi
09-08-2021, 05:11 PM
Yes Jundo, I am at fault again with four or five too long sent. I will work more at your request for Lay people to keep it short.


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Jakuden
09-11-2021, 03:32 AM
When the walls fell gassho1

Gassho,
Koushi
ST

Sokath, his eyes uncovered. [emoji4]

Gassho


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tclark7
09-12-2021, 12:45 AM
Sokath, his eyes uncovered.
Was going to reference this one. Certainly the most "Zen."
gassho2

Jundo
09-12-2021, 01:23 AM
Sokath, his eyes uncovered. [emoji4]

Gassho


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A rather dedicated Trekkie though I am, I had to look this up.

https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2014/06/star-trek-tng-and-the-limits-of-language-shaka-when-the-walls-fell/372107/

Actually, this description explains one of the main reasons that many Zen Koans seem so hard ...


FIRST OFFICER: Darmok? Rai and Jiri at Lungha.

DATHON (shrugs): Shaka. When the walls fell …

FIRST OFFICER: Zima at Anzo. Zima and Bakor.

DATHON (firm) Darkmok at Tanagra.

FIRST OFFICER: Shaka! (indicating situation) Mirab, his sails unfurled.

DATHON: Darmok.

...

Shaka, when the walls fell is a likeness of failure for the Children of Tama. ...

Picard calls it metaphor, and Troi calls it image. For the Federation crew, the Tamarians cite examples that guide their understanding of and approach to the various problems they encounter on a day-to-day basis: as Picard puts it, by citing “a situation similar to this one.” Science fiction often plays with alternate methods of linguistic understanding, and this is familiar territory: The alien is incomprehensible, but in a way that can be overcome through reason and technology.

Gassho, J

STLah

Hedy
09-25-2021, 04:11 PM
A rather dedicated Trekkie though I am, I had to look this up.

https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2014/06/star-trek-tng-and-the-limits-of-language-shaka-when-the-walls-fell/372107/

Actually, this description explains one of the main reasons that many Zen Koans seem so hard ...



Gassho, J

STLah

Thanks for the Star Wars link, not that I understood the conversation there either. I am new to this site and not a Trekkie; therefore the references to Sokath, Darmok and Jalad fell on deaf ears.
I mistakenly thought they were terms from Hindu cosmology, like Shinjen or nebutsu that I have yet to learn.

Gassho, Hedy

Risho
09-25-2021, 05:03 PM
Thanks for the Star Wars link, not that I understood the conversation there either. I am new to this site and not a Trekkie; therefore the references to Sokath, Darmok and Jalad fell on deaf ears.
I mistakenly thought they were terms from Hindu cosmology, like Shinjen or nebutsu that I have yet to learn.

Gassho, Hedy

Um the first grave precept, also called the Treeleaf Prime Directive, is utter devotion to Star Trek!! (not the new stuff either) hahaha

gassho

risho
-stlah

Jakuden
09-25-2021, 08:20 PM
A rather dedicated Trekkie though I am, I had to look this up.

https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2014/06/star-trek-tng-and-the-limits-of-language-shaka-when-the-walls-fell/372107/

Actually, this description explains one of the main reasons that many Zen Koans seem so hard ...



Gassho, J

STLah

Yes this is quite a parallel to Koan study isn't it? Leave it to Star Trek.

This episode is so revered by ST fans that they always play it at conventions. Along with the Inner Light, another episode that I think of often in relation to Impermanence.

Gassho,
Jakuden
SatToday/LAH

Tai Shi
01-07-2022, 03:37 AM
I donít understand prime directive said? Why is it important to Zen? Instead of a matter of centuries to voyage to another star system isnít that what hope is for a peace in the future? The connection between and Zen? Show us our way. Let us see Reality is not attainable but we can keep trying. We cannot but we save all sentient beings or is it free? Which do you want: this prime directive stay away from others?
Gassho
sat/ lah


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Shokai
01-09-2022, 08:44 PM
And the price of tea is .......

Gasho, Shokai
stlah

Tai Shi
01-10-2022, 01:29 AM
I believe this price of tea is rather Teaching.
Gassho/ sat/ lah


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Ippo
01-10-2022, 04:31 AM
The tree in the front garden.

Gassho, J

STLah

What was the meaning of Bodhidharma coming from the West?
;)

Gassho,

Ippo

SatToday

Tai Shi
01-14-2022, 04:10 AM
If my humor offended anyone, I am sorry.
Gassho
sat/ lah
Tai Shi


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EricR
06-22-2022, 09:22 PM
While I don't know if I'm a member, I do intend to abide by this since I intend to be more active.

Bion
06-22-2022, 09:32 PM
While I don't know if I'm a member, I do intend to abide by this since I intend to be more active.

We mean members of the forum / community in general, or in other words anyone posting, but as you can see in Jundoís post, newcomers get a pass for a while [emoji1] . Itís more than anything an invitation to be mindful of our words. Of course, we are grateful that youíre willing to support this initiative [emoji3526] [emoji1374]

[emoji1374] Sat Today

Bion
01-15-2023, 12:29 AM
Mea culpa. I am reading this a few weeks after joining you. My introduction post was a blabby three paragraphs.

Gassho,
b.
STLAH

Itís totally fine. We get a pass when weíre brand new and finding our way around! [emoji3526]

[emoji1374] Sat Today lah

Jundo
01-15-2023, 02:44 AM
Mea culpa. I am reading this a few weeks after joining you. My introduction post was a blabby three paragraphs.

Gassho,
b.
STLAH

Oh no, it is only a general rule of thumb. Long introductions are most welcome, one of the ways we get to know something about each other. gassho2

Gassho, Jundo

stlah

Tai Shi
01-15-2023, 10:05 PM
I am a calm poetry

Tai Shi
01-15-2023, 10:11 PM
I am calm poetry. My life has changed. Iím not sure how. I write with heart that means that you get to know me better with poetry!
Gassho
sat/ lah