PDA

View Full Version : Realizing Genjokoan - Chapter 12 - First Half to P Bottom of P 192



Jundo
06-08-2020, 04:07 AM
Dear All,

We are coming to the close of this book with Chapter 12. After that, we will spend about 5 weeks or so with a few more Koans from the Book of Equanimity (I will try to post some of Shishin Wick's fine commentary for those who need, although I encourage everyone who can to buy the book). After that, a reminder that our next "no words" book club selection has been announced:


Zen Women by Grace Schireson
https://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?17846-Next-Book-Club-Selection-Zen-Women-by-Grace-Schireson

Today, we turn to the first half of Chapter 12, stopping right before "Dogen and Original Enlightenment."

The air is all present, yet our practice is to fan the wind, filled with dust ...


https://youtu.be/Kdiq3pMlalY

Okumura Roshi starts off with some other Koans from Magu (not to be confused with this guy, by the way ... maybe you have to be American of a certain age to get the reference):


https://occ-0-114-116.1.nflxso.net/art/4301a/48d375cefae4550b4615fe79b6b474a5b084301a.jpg

In any case, the other Koans express something like "the True Kannon is right here, and we are all sitting in her eye," and "you right here are just WHO this is!" (Really, I felt this discussion of Magu would really be better in a footnote, but it was interesting. I am really not a big "fan" of this part of the book. :p )

Anyway, getting to the wind and the fan: The basic point is that the goodness and wholeness of "Buddha" is everywhere, but if we don't fan it and bring it to life in how we live, it does not get realized (known) and realized (made real in life).

Originally, Buddhism considered Buddhism nature to be something within us that, some rebirths down the road, has the potential to become a perfect Buddha. However, it is covered with dusts of greed, anger, divided thinking in ignorance that hides it and prevents it from manifesting, so we have to sweep all that dust away to get to Buddha. Dogen was of the opinion that Buddha Nature is not what we have, but what we and all things are all along ... even the dust. Of course, we have to see through the dust, not be choked by the dust ... but the dust is really not the hindrance we think. Like waves that are just the clear water, the dust is also just the clear Buddha (though often hard to see that fact). Yes, we cannot get caught in the dust, but Dogen felt that our very acts of constant sweeping moment by moment in life are just Buddha too ... Buddha sweeping Buddha.

Gassho, J

STLah

Jundo
06-08-2020, 04:09 AM
PS - As a bonus extra, another song by country singer Caroline Jones that is also very Zenny in meaning.

Dedicated to Shinshi, Jakuden and all our other horse folks ...


https://youtu.be/Eu-xNin-iNk

Tairin
06-11-2020, 11:08 PM
I appreciate Okumura’s scholarship but I agree this section seems a little overdone discussing Magu.

One thing that struck me about this section is how much it leveraged Linji who is from the Rinzai school. It is too easy to fall into the trap of us/them thinking i.e. Soto vs Rinzai but the lesson here is that there is wisdom to be found throughout. One doesn’t need to close one’s self off from non-Soto sources.

I am looking forward to getting back to the Book of Equanimity for a bit.

gassho2
Tairin
Sat today and lah

Jundo
06-12-2020, 05:48 AM
I appreciate Okumura’s scholarship but I agree this section seems a little overdone discussing Magu.

One thing that struck me about this section is how much it leveraged Linji who is from the Rinzai school. It is too easy to fall into the trap of us/them thinking i.e. Soto vs Rinzai but the lesson here is that there is wisdom to be found throughout. One doesn’t need to close one’s self off from non-Soto sources.

I am looking forward to getting back to the Book of Equanimity for a bit.

gassho2
Tairin
Sat today and lah

Dogen was funny. Sometimes he praised Rinzai very much. Other times, he came down very hard on Rinzai (usually when, it seems, he was talking to his new convert students from a Rinzai lineage, the Daruma-shu, trying to convince them that Rinzai was not so great.) So, even Dogen sent mixed messages.

One thing I will add is that "Master Rinzai" is not of the same style that later became associated with the "Rinzai Lineage" through much later Masters Dahui and Hakuin, namely "Koan Introspection Zazen." In fact, there is much in Rinzai's recorded teachings that smack of Shikantaza, and could come out of Master Dogen's mouth. I wrote about that here. Have a look:

The Shikantaza Teachings of ... Master Rinzai!
https://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?15306-The-Shikantaza-Teachings-of-Master-Rinzai%21

Gassho, J

STLah

Heiso
06-12-2020, 08:03 AM
I agree, a lot of this section could have been better placed in a footnote. I did like the conclusion though - stop arguing philosophy, find someone who practices properly and copy them. Just do it.

I've just been reading about Master Rinzai in the Circle of the Way and rather like the sound of him with all his nose tweaking and calling people dried pieces of sh*t!! But I also like his message - don't seek anything outside yourself, ordinary mind is the way.

I don't think I've read about Rinzai's shikantaza teachings so will check that out.

Gassho,

Heiso

StLah

Bokucho
06-12-2020, 08:38 PM
I agree with some above sentiments, because I personally have a difficult time with koans often. I feel like so much is lost in translation, and references that are centuries old, that they end up feeling like a joke I laugh at, not because I get it, but because I'm supposed to. I get that it's sort of the point, but my brain just doesn't work that way. However, I do enjoy the overall theme of this section, and the discussion of philosophy does take us a little further from the practice itself. You can read every book about the ocean, but not know the taste of salt water. It's summertime here so I'm going to go pervade my wind nature before I burn up. Thanks for the commentary!

Gassho,

Joshua
SatToday/LaH

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

Jundo
06-12-2020, 11:01 PM
I agree with some above sentiments, because I personally have a difficult time with koans often. I feel like so much is lost in translation, and references that are centuries old, that they end up feeling like a joke I laugh at, not because I get it, but because I'm supposed to. I get that it's sort of the point, but my brain just doesn't work that way. However, I do enjoy the overall theme of this section, and the discussion of philosophy does take us a little further from the practice itself. You can read every book about the ocean, but not know the taste of salt water. It's summertime here so I'm going to go pervade my wind nature before I burn up. Thanks for the commentary!

Gassho,

Joshua
SatToday/LaH

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

Then, please join us in the bookclub during July as we look at 5 Koans from the "Book of Serenity." It may help get your head around ... and through ... them. gassho1

Gassho, J

STLah

Bokucho
06-13-2020, 12:35 AM
Then, please join us in the bookclub during July as we look at 5 Koans from the "Book of Serenity." It may help get your head around ... and through ... them. gassho1

Gassho, J

STLahThat sounds lovely, I feel like I need some more insight into koans! So what's your take on the infamous fan? I feel like it either represents the fact that while Buddha nature is all pervading, it's only realized through practice? Or is it more that there's no reason to even ask, because to explain it would be getting further away? Or is it some combination of both and neither? I'd just like some other interpretations [emoji120][emoji120][emoji120]

Gassho,

Joshua
SatToday/LaH

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

Jundo
06-13-2020, 05:31 AM
... I feel like it either represents the fact that while Buddha nature is all pervading, it's only realized through practice?

That is exactly the consensus of 99.8% of all Soto people. :p We are Buddha beyond all greed anger and ignorance, but if we fail to act accordingly, act like Buddha free of greed, anger and ignorance, Buddha does not show its face and does not manifest. It is not a particularly hard Koan.

Gassho, J

STLah

Tairin
06-13-2020, 03:03 PM
That is exactly the consensus of 99.8% of all Soto people. :p We are Buddha beyond all greed anger and ignorance, but if we fail to act accordingly, act like Buddha free of greed, anger and ignorance, Buddha does not show its face and does not manifest. It is not a particularly hard Koan.

Gassho, J

STLah

What do the remaining 0.2% believe?[??]

Thank you for the reminder of your Shikantaza Teachings of Master Rinzai. It was good to reread.

gassho2
Tairin
Sat today and lah

Jundo
06-13-2020, 03:51 PM
What do the remaining 0.2% believe?[??]



That he was just hot and they did not have air conditioning back then. ;)

Gassho, J

STLah

Tairin
06-13-2020, 03:57 PM
That he was just hot and they did not have air conditioning back then. ;)

Gassho, J

STLah

gassho1