Local Sanghas/Temples

[lotus-of-the-mtn]

I was looking for local groups to practice with. None are in the Soto Zen tradition. There are actually a good number of Theravada groups, two nichiren ones, a kwan um zen center, etc.

As we should not be attached to labels our "dogmas", my question is what experience do you all have with other Buddhist sects and what can you tell me about your time among them? Kwan Um is close, and it's Zen, which is what I'm familiar with. I will likely visit them soon. But what about the others? Theravada tradition? Nichiren? Diamond Way? Dzogchen?

Any thoughts are welcome and appreciated.

Gassho
Tamber
satlah

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[Jishin]

Hi Tamber,

I think it doesn't get more local than Teeeleaf which I carry in my pocket most of the time.

[emoji3]

Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

[lotus-of-the-mtn]

I figured that might be the response 🤣 should have just settled with that.

That definitely helps. Thanks Jishin!

Gassho
Tamber
satlah

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[Jishin]

[emoji12]

Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

[Ryushi]

I am fortunate to live in an area where Zen sanghas are plentiful. Berkeley, Oakland, San Francisco all have plenty of options. So, there's a nagging idea in my head that I should connect with a physical sangha. Yet, I find I'm more likely to sit with others when I only travel as far as my living room instead of getting in the car and driving 20-30 minutes away.

Am I being lazy? Maybe. But I'm actually practicing with Treeleaf whereas local sanghas remain just an idea in my head of what I "should" do. And what I'm doing now doesn't have to be what I do forever. But this is good for the now.

[lotus-of-the-mtn]

I am fortunate to live in an area where Zen sanghas are plentiful. Berkeley, Oakland, San Francisco all have plenty of options. So, there's a nagging idea in my head that I should connect with a physical sangha. Yet, I find I'm more likely to sit with others when I only travel as far as my living room instead of getting in the car and driving 20-30 minutes away.

Am I being lazy? Maybe. But I'm actually practicing with Treeleaf whereas local sanghas remain just an idea in my head of what I "should" do. And what I'm doing now doesn't have to be what I do forever. But this is good for the now.I agree. I'd even say what you're doing now is no less or better than actually showing up to a physical one-roof sangha. You're sitting with others. You're doing your practice. You're here now.

It's good you mention what you "should" do. I'm often shackled to this notion. I'm looking for more when it's all right here, when there isn't anything to have more of.

Deep bows to your practice, Todd.

Gassho
Tamber
satlah

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[Kyoshin]

Hi Tamber,
I'd check out all the other groups; that sounds like a fun time to me (but then again I'm a big nerd for religion). It could also add dimension to your Zen practice to experience a few other ways to do Buddhism. You might even find you like diamond way better than Soto Zen! (Sorry Jundo!) And you'll probably meet cool people. It's win/win! [emoji16]
Edited to actually answer the question: I'm not experienced with some of those forms of Buddhism, though I've had some interaction with Theravada and Pure Land. Both have less emphasis on meditation practice by non-monastics than Zen, and Theravada seems to be generally a bit more conservative and doctrinaire. Lay practice is more oriented to ritual, visit temples for ceremonies, blessings from the monks, and earning merit by generally being a nice generous person. It depends alot though on what strain and where they come from. Buddhism has a fun way of grasping itself onto local folk religion and practice, and can vary really widely within the same sect.
Gassho
Nick
Satlah

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[Jundo]

Many ways to cook the noodles, all the same at heart yet often very different; quite different yet just the same. Same noodles, different sauce.

Each flavor of Buddhism, of Zen, each individual group and teacher is also its own way of cooking noodles. Different recipes suit different tongues. One never knows if it is good and nutritious, or too spicy or damp or overcooked, unless one tastes. :)

Gassho, Jundo

SatTodayLAH

[Jishin]

I'd check out all the other groups...

I don't know. What gets you well keeps you well. Don't fix it til it's broke. If it ain't broke don't fix it.

If you ain't getting what you need then check the others out. Otherwise life is too short for this and that.

Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

[Jundo]

I don't know. What gets you well keeps you well. Don't fix it til it's broke. If it ain't broke don't fix it.

If you ain't getting what you need then check the others out. Otherwise life is too short for this and that.

Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

Yes, this is true too.

Not to mention, that only our interpretation of Buddhism at Treeleaf (specifically, my interpretation) is correct and the unique medicine for all human beings. Plus the fact that anyone who leaves here is risking eternity in Buddhist hell.

(Just kidding about that last part). [evilgrin]

I actually do caution about our modern tendency to "spiritual shop" in the "self-help" mall, running from group to group, guru to guru, self-help book to book. We also choose from the spiritual cafeteria the things that please us, going for the fluffy desserts and leaving the vegetables. We do not go "deep" into one path before running off to others, or try to mix and match (often ending up playing football with a baseball bat).

There is a wise and middle way here.

Investigate, try, ask others with experience in a place, know one's own needs ... then pick a path and walk it.

Of course, I truly do believe that the radical "Just This" and "putting down the hunger" of Shikantaza is powerful medicine that could heal the vast vast majority of suffering human beings. I truly believe so. However, others paths are good paths too, suited to different people.

Gassho, J

SatTodayLAH

[Nanrin]

I'm a Theravadin, have been for years. (Pretty much everyone in Thailand is too). Happy to answer any questions you may have.

In the US most temples are for Asian communities. They tend to be oriented towards traditional lay practice such as giving donations, chanting, participating in ceremonies. They usually operate under their home country's culture. You can always go to meditate at such temples, but there might not be others meditating with you. Depending on the monks, you can learn a lot about the Dhamma (Dharma) and practice by asking questions or going to talks. There are some traditional temples with meditation classes and talks oriented for westerners. These are very good for newcomers.

Outside of traditional temples, there are meditation centers. These usually focus on a specific lineage's meditation technique and may not have monastics (such as a Goenka center). Finally, there are groups led by pseudo-Theravadan meditation teachers who have significant practice experience, but run things similar to a teaching business. These groups vary wildly in quality, but are very appealing to many people.

Here in Thailand I go to a forest temple. I'm on good terms with the monks there. I stay in the monk's quarters and live similar to the monks for the duration of my stay (usually a couple days). It's a great chance to eliminate ordinary distractions and practice intensively.

I personally find having several teachers very beneficial. They being said, one is enough too. This community doesn't lack anything except potluck meals. ;)

Hope this was helpful.

Maitri

SatToday

[Kyoshin]

A balance of breadth and depth is key. It's good for an aspiring guitar player to learn a little piano, but not so much that she doesn't master either instrument.

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[Sekishi]

Hi Tamber,

I agree with pretty much all that has been said here already. But I also wanted to share my experience.

I live in a very rural part of Virginia, and when I started Buddhist practice I was completely thrilled and surprised to discover that there is a small sitting group in the area. I guess I would describe it as "non-denominational Mahayana Buddhist". There are folks from Shambala, Soto Zen, and a few others. All are welcome.

Because all the regulars are from Mahayana traditions we chant the Heart Sutra, and slowly rotate through different versions (reflecting the diversity within the group). We all share a sitting practice. So there really isn't any teaching, and there has certainly never been any friction about "my Buddhism" vs. "your Buddhism".

Jundo is my teacher, and Shikantaza is my root practice. I have found lifelong friends who share in the Buddha way both "online" and "locally". I'm glad to have Tuesday night sittings with rumbly tummies and sneezes all together in a physical room and Friday night sittings with cicada in Japan. :D

Friends on the path are wonderful, wherever they are found.

Gassho,
Sekishi
#sat

[Jishin]

I'm glad to have Tuesday night sittings with rumbly tummies and sneezes all together in a physical room

5278

Not me. [emoji3]

Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

[Jundo]

I'm a Theravadin, have been for years. (Pretty much everyone in Thailand is too). Happy to answer any questions you may have.



Hi Maitri,

Just to clarify, you are also practicing and sitting Shikantaza in the manner around here, at least once a day? That is the one thing we ask when around here. :)

When on a football field, play football. If on a baseball field, play baseball.

Gassho, Jundo

SatTodayLAH

[Nanrin]

Hi Maitri,

Just to clarify, you are also practicing and sitting Shikantaza in the manner around here, at least once a day? That is the one thing we ask when around here. :)

When on a football field, play football. If on a baseball field, play baseball.

Gassho, Jundo

SatTodayLAHYes. :)

I've watched and sat-a-long with the beginner video series and sit Shikantasa every single day since according my best understanding. I used to worry a lot about different meditation techniques and "doing it right." Shikantasa sets all that aside in a beautiful way. Thank you for the teaching. It has corrected many of my misunderstandings.

I thought long and hard before joining Treeleaf (and talked with my teacher here). I hope it is ok to share my experiences and knowledge about Theravada here when relevant. The recipes vary, but true Dharma is all of one flavor, liberation.

Maitri

SatToday

[lotus-of-the-mtn]

I don't know. What gets you well keeps you well. Don't fix it til it's broke. If it ain't broke don't fix it.

If you ain't getting what you need then check the others out. Otherwise life is too short for this and that.

Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

I am definitely getting what I need. This was a good lesson on not fixing what isn't broken; on the tendency to "spiritually shop", or just shop in general whenever we feel like we want "more".

Breaking it down, I have community here. I have 24/7 access I wouldn't otherwise have at a "one-roof" group. Everything I need is right here.

I thank you Jishin, particularly for your insight. And to everyone else for their input.

Deep bows to your practice.

Gassho
Tamber
satlah

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[Jishin]

[emoji106][emoji106]

Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

[Kyoshin]

This really is a uniquely wonderful community. Y'all are all fantastic!
Gassho
Nick

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[Jundo]

Yes. :)

I've watched and sat-a-long with the beginner video series and sit Shikantasa every single day since according my best understanding. I used to worry a lot about different meditation techniques and "doing it right." Shikantasa sets all that aside in a beautiful way. Thank you for the teaching. It has corrected many of my misunderstandings.

I thought long and hard before joining Treeleaf (and talked with my teacher here). I hope it is ok to share my experiences and knowledge about Theravada here when relevant. The recipes vary, but true Dharma is all of one flavor, liberation.

Maitri

SatToday

Yes, please share. It is good to learn something of other ways sometimes. Same, but sometimes very different. Ofte. different, but always just the same.

Gassho, Jundo

StLah

[Doshin]

One thing said for a local Sangha it gets you out around other sentient beings. A couple times a year I drive 4 hours to sit for a weekend. Committing to that distance and being in a Zendo keeps me there for some intensive practice. I would not stay so seated at home. With that Treeleaf is central to my practice.

Gassho
Doshin
ST

Jishin, after reading your responses above I feel honored you let me sit with you last year when you visited!��

[Jishin]

Jishin, after reading your responses above I feel honored you let me sit with you last year when you visited!��

I am honored you let a bum like me hang out with your family, dogs included.

[emoji3]

Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

[Alfaiate]

I do have a Soto Zen organization in my town.

Used to go there and sit. Got traumatized with pain in legs/knees.

Now i sit Shikantaza at home twice a day in a uber confortable chair. [morehappy]

Maybe i´m lost case. ah ah


Gasho
Sat today

[Emmet]

The last whisp of sunset on the wall before me; the unseen but strongly felt presence of beloved Dharma brothers & sisters sitting on either side; the comfortable familiarity and belongingness of our Dharma family, united in shared purpose; the peaceful evening silence broken only by the sound of a great horned owl calling to it's mate.
I will always be deeply grateful for having had the opportunity to sit with a brick-and-mortar sangha.

Sat today.

[Jakuden]

So funny, as different as the last two posts are, they both evoked my complete and immediate recognition and empathy [emoji23]

Gassho
Jakuden
SatToday/LAH


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[Jundo]

The last whisp of sunset on the wall before me; the unseen but strongly felt presence of beloved Dharma brothers & sisters sitting on either side; the comfortable familiarity and belongingness of our Dharma family, united in shared purpose; the peaceful evening silence broken only by the sound of a great horned owl calling to it's mate.
I will always be deeply grateful for having had the opportunity to sit with a brick-and-mortar sangha.

Sat today.

Yep. We encourage folks to get out and sit with groups when they can, it is marvelous. All sitting is marvelous. Sit with us when you can't get to those groups. It is marvelous too.

Gassho, Jundo

SatTodayLAH

[Kokuu]

I do have a Soto Zen organization in my town.

Used to go there and sit. Got traumatized with pain in legs/knees.

Hi Alfaiate

If you are ever in this situation again, please ask the teacher or meditation leader for help either with posture and meditation cushion height, or if you can sit in a chair if you are too comfortable otherwise.

It is not the purpose of meditation to be a test of pushing through pain but I know that it can be difficult to draw attention to yourself.

Gassho
Kokuu
-sattoday-

[Jundo]

Dear Aidfaiate,

Kokuu is right on.

I will also suggest this that I posted in another discussion today. Try this too.


For posture, we are each our own teachers. If it feels balanced and comfortable and causes no strange symptoms then, well, it is balanced and comfortable and good posture.

Here is the book we recommend about each of us being our own "sitting posture teacher" ...

Book Recommendation: - THE POSTURE OF MEDITATION
https://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?6913-Book-Recommendation-THE-POSTURE-OF-MEDITATION

I actually think it more helpful than the "one size fits all" attitude sometimes found in Japanese Zen groups. Even if we were in a "bricks and mortar" Sangha, I really cannot get inside your head and body to tell you what is best ... but you can.

Gassho, Jundo

STLAH

[Meitou]

The last whisp of sunset on the wall before me; the unseen but strongly felt presence of beloved Dharma brothers & sisters sitting on either side; the comfortable familiarity and belongingness of our Dharma family, united in shared purpose; the peaceful evening silence broken only by the sound of a great horned owl calling to it's mate.
I will always be deeply grateful for having had the opportunity to sit with a brick-and-mortar sangha.

Sat today.

I do hope to have the opportunity to experience this one day. There is hope; a couple of weeks ago I found this Sangha, The Centro Zen Anshin (https://www.anshin.it/en/) in Rome, affiliated to the Sanshin Zen community founded by Shohaku Okumura and run by students two students who have received transmission from him. And Okumura himself is coming later in September! Unfortunately I can't go this time, and although it's only a 30 minute flight away it does mean I can't just pop in, but it's great to know that the opportunity to visit is there.
Gassh0
Meitou
satwithyoualltoday/lah

[Shoki]

There are not a lot of zen centers where I live. I started sitting with a Rinzai group 25 years ago in a place that advertised itself as a monastery run by a "zen master." It was a beautiful setting all tricked out with all the trimmings and a staff of "resident monks" I considered joining as a member on some level but because of work, family and travel issues I asked if I could pay less than the required joining fee in a scaled down version. They were overly concerned about how much I would pay. I got a little suspicious. Also, I could not find any info on this so called roshi. Who was his teacher? Did he receive dharma transmission? What's the story with this guy? I got even more suspicious.

I called a fairly well known and respected zen teacher and asked about this guy who just laughed and said, "Oh he's a phony." The whole roshi thing was totally made up. He was not what he said he was. And they wanted my money. So I would respectfully advise, just be careful out there.

Gassho
Sat Today LAH
James

[Doshin]

James,

My life experience says this is good advice for all of life. Trust but Verify,

Gassho
Doshin
St

[Tokan]

Hey Tamber

I listen to and read the teachings of a variety of buddhist teachers. I see them as leaves on one tree, but I have chosen to focus on treeleaf, and as Jundo as a teacher, much as one would watch a single leaf as it fell from the tree. It is hard to run along a trail when you are following another trail with your eyes - bound to fall over and bruise your knees! Although I pay attention to the voluminous teachings of many teachers I know that an incisive comment alone can break through delusion just as well (if not better) than a whole book. The buddha told Ananda that the whole of the holy life is spiritual friendship, and that is my benchmark. Be at peace wherever you sit gassho2

STLAH, Leon


Upaddha Sutta: Half (of the Holy Life)
translated from the Pali by
Thanissaro Bhikkhu

I have heard that on one occasion the Blessed One was living among the Sakyans. Now there is a Sakyan town named Sakkara. There Ven. Ananda went to the Blessed One and, on arrival, having bowed down to the Blessed One, sat to one side. As he was sitting there, Ven. Ananda said to the Blessed One, "This is half of the holy life, lord: admirable friendship, admirable companionship, admirable camaraderie."[1]

"Don't say that, Ananda. Don't say that. Admirable friendship, admirable companionship, admirable camaraderie is actually the whole of the holy life. When a monk has admirable people as friends, companions, & comrades, he can be expected to develop & pursue the noble eightfold path.

[Meian]

I was a member of a local non-sectarian sangha for a while. They have different teachers come and lead meditations, different branches (Tibetan, Theravada, Zen, etc.). They are peer-led, all volunteer, which is fine. It changed hands last fall when a new president and board was elected, and things took a bit of a turn -- that happens. Change is life, life is change.

TreeLeaf is highly unique in that it is always evolving, yet it manages to maintain a certain homeostasis and equanimity that allows it not to lose its core values and atmosphere. Perhaps that's the benefit of being an online sangha and being so wonderfully open to technology -- like water, we can mold ourselves around changes and available resources to ride out the rhythm and flows of life around and within us.

I was not able to remain a member of my local sangha, due to my health being as mercurial as it is, their schedule and their needs, and our inabilities to meet in the middle. I did try, but ..... it is what it is. I have accepted that. I'm not sure they have.

TreeLeaf has been and continues to be the most welcoming, compassionate, and understanding community I have ever experienced. And I say that having studied and known people from all major religions (and some smaller religions) of the world.

gassho
kim
st/lh