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Zenmei
07-06-2017, 06:18 PM
JUNDO NOTE: SPLIT TOPIC FROM A PRIOR THREAD


Reading over some new comments in this thread I am struck by the strong emotions that arise both from vegetarians/vegans and meat eaters. Very much like when the subject surfaces in my daily life and conversations.
So now I wonder: how come we feel so stronly about this? Are our emotions, often with underlaying anger, justified? I must admit that I struggle with these emotions.
How do we handle strong emotions in Buddhism?
Maybe there's a talk or an article on this topic.

Gassho
Marcus
SatToday/LAH

This probably deserves its own topic, but I'll bite.

Emotions aren't justified, they just are. If I'm angry, it's not wrong to be angry. It may be wrong to punch someone in the face. Only our actions need to be justified. An emotion can't be wrong, any more than a leg could be wrong, or your hair growing. It's important not to think that as buddhists, we're not supposed to feel anger, so we suppress it and push it away. Repressing emotions leads to more suffering. When we feel a strong emotion, we have to lean in to it, to feel it completely and thoroughly, and then we can let it go. If we try to stuff it back down, we'll never be able to let go, it'll keep coming back up again and again.
Here in America, there's a sense that in order to really feel your emotions, you have to express them, to "get it out". I don't think that's true. If I'm angry, shouting at my wife only makes us both angrier. I can't pretend like I'm not mad, but I don't have to express my anger all over everyone. I still do, but I don't have to.
So the question is, how do we feel our emotions without letting them lead us into harmful behaviors? I haven't figured that one out yet. One answer is to just sit with your feelings, and it works when you can do it, but it's really not that practical in most emotional situations. Most situations demand a response of some kind. I'm not sure how to respond with compassion and kindness when I'm feeling fear and anger. Seems like not too many people have that figured out, either.

Gassho, Zenmei
#sat

Mp
07-06-2017, 06:41 PM
This probably deserves its own topic, but I'll bite.

Emotions aren't justified, they just are. If I'm angry, it's not wrong to be angry. It may be wrong to punch someone in the face. Only our actions need to be justified. An emotion can't be wrong, any more than a leg could be wrong, or your hair growing. It's important not to think that as buddhists, we're not supposed to feel anger, so we suppress it and push it away. Repressing emotions leads to more suffering. When we feel a strong emotion, we have to lean in to it, to feel it completely and thoroughly, and then we can let it go. If we try to stuff it back down, we'll never be able to let go, it'll keep coming back up again and again.
Here in America, there's a sense that in order to really feel your emotions, you have to express them, to "get it out". I don't think that's true. If I'm angry, shouting at my wife only makes us both angrier. I can't pretend like I'm not mad, but I don't have to express my anger all over everyone. I still do, but I don't have to.
So the question is, how do we feel our emotions without letting them lead us into harmful behaviors? I haven't figured that one out yet. One answer is to just sit with your feelings, and it works when you can do it, but it's really not that practical in most emotional situations. Most situations demand a response of some kind. I'm not sure how to respond with compassion and kindness when I'm feeling fear and anger. Seems like not too many people have that figured out, either.

Gassho, Zenmei
#sat
Nicely said Zenmai, thank you. =)

Gassho
Shingen

SatToday/LAH

Jakuden
07-06-2017, 07:29 PM
After practicing awhile, a strong emotion arising starts to be a little flag that means, "look deeper." It's amazing the truths you discover if you investigate all those little flags!

Gassho,
Jakuden
SatToday/LAH

Ryudo
07-06-2017, 09:08 PM
This probably deserves its own topic, but I'll bite.

Emotions aren't justified, they just are. If I'm angry, it's not wrong to be angry. It may be wrong to punch someone in the face. Only our actions need to be justified. An emotion can't be wrong, any more than a leg could be wrong, or your hair growing. It's important not to think that as buddhists, we're not supposed to feel anger, so we suppress it and push it away. Repressing emotions leads to more suffering. When we feel a strong emotion, we have to lean in to it, to feel it completely and thoroughly, and then we can let it go. If we try to stuff it back down, we'll never be able to let go, it'll keep coming back up again and again.
Here in America, there's a sense that in order to really feel your emotions, you have to express them, to "get it out". I don't think that's true. If I'm angry, shouting at my wife only makes us both angrier. I can't pretend like I'm not mad, but I don't have to express my anger all over everyone. I still do, but I don't have to.
So the question is, how do we feel our emotions without letting them lead us into harmful behaviors? I haven't figured that one out yet. One answer is to just sit with your feelings, and it works when you can do it, but it's really not that practical in most emotional situations. Most situations demand a response of some kind. I'm not sure how to respond with compassion and kindness when I'm feeling fear and anger. Seems like not too many people have that figured out, either.

Gassho, Zenmei
#sat

Thank you for your responce.
As I understand it, the anger should be accepted without further action except to sit with it. But as you say, it does not lead to a solution. Allow me to compare it with the US presidents politics that makes many people angry...
Maybe we should sit with the emotion of anger but never the less take a stand when unjustice is done and try our best to change things and make it better in every way we can?
So in this particular case... I will take a stand for the vegan lifestyle but I will love non-vegans equaly.

Thank you again and
Gassho
Marcus
SatToday/LAH

Geika
07-06-2017, 09:49 PM
Sitting with anger, yet also acting on what we find to be distasteful is usually the way it rolls around here, Marcus. I feel it is a good way to be, as well.

Gassho, sat today, lah

Tairin
07-07-2017, 12:20 AM
After practicing awhile, a strong emotion arising starts to be a little flag that means, "look deeper." It's amazing the truths you discover if you investigate all those little flags!!

I agree with this. Often it is a question of pausing a moment or two and asking "what's really going on here?" We all carry baggage that manifests itself as emotions, aversions, attractions etc. The trick is putting down the baggage.

Gassho
Warren
Sat & LAH today

Jundo
07-07-2017, 02:21 AM
Some wise responses from the folks.

My rule of thumb is (1) don't try to be a robot and never feel anger arise, for it is hard wired into the most primitive parts of our animal brains, nevertheless (2) avoid to let it explode into rage and burn out of control, and Buddhism has various Practices to cool and moderate the fires (3) certainly do not let anger come out of one's mouth or, worse, hands (4) learn to channel the emotion in positive ways, such as social concern and civil disobedience rather than angry words and fists and rocks and bullets.

A couple of old essays on the topic. First, Anger as "playing with fire". ...


I believe that the Precepts generally guide us away from anger, greed, jealousy and other such emotions. As anyone who has ever had a moment (or days on end) flooded by those emotions can testify ... they generally do not lead to the peace and balance which is at the heart of this practice. Others get hurt, we get hurt, holes get punched in walls, plates get broken and life gets broken. These emotions are fire, and we must be careful how we play with it.

On the other hand, to fully remove these emotions from the human mind ... including potentially harmful emotions such as anger ... would rob of us of an important part of being human. We would be reduced to living in a way as emotionally numb and dull as a piece of cold wood or a stone. Some schools of Buddhism (and some other Eastern and Western religions too) have sought to completely kill or squelch such emotions within us (sometimes many other human emotions too). This has traditionally been described as pouring water on the fire until coals become completely wet and cool, and the fire is completely out.

When Buddhism came to China, Korea, Tibet and Japan ... the Buddhist teachings on the emotions subtly changed (I paint with a broad brush, but I speak as a general trend). The fires of emotions were not seen as necessarily negative things, but they must be handled carefully and with balance. A campfire, so useful for cooking our supper if skillfully made, will quickly burn down the woods if left untended. A single candle which offers light can burn us and others, and the whole house down, if handled wrong. So it is with our emotions. Thus I say that the Precepts guide us away from excess and uncontrolled anger, greed, jealousy ... Anger at injustices in the world, for example, may spur us on to fight for change ... yet that anger should be kept in balance, and tempered with an equal dose of acceptance of life, lest it burns us to ashes too. ... Thus, do not extinguish life fires ... but handle them with care and use them in constructive ways!

More here:
http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?8266-Playing-With-Fire

A related thread someone asked about is whether "anger is ever justified" ...


Anger is also a natural part of being human ... like sadness and fear ... and we should not be angry about sometimes getting a little angry (or sad about sometimes being sad, etc.). That's just how our animal brains are wired.

HOWEVER, unlike sadness (which is just part of the scenery of life, rainy days following sunny), or fear (which may even serve to keep us safe and out of harm's way if held in moderation) ... anger is truly fire & TNT, and has potential to do great harm. It is more likely to end up as a fight in a bar, a broken relationship or starting a war than it is to do any positive good. As well, there are other emotions and perspective which can accomplish the positive goods more effectively.

So, for example, calm reflection, looking for a constructive solution and keeping one's head as much as possible while taking effective action is an approach more likely to solve a problem in this world or in one's life than tossing more fuel on the fires of hate. ... Perhaps, "righteous indignation" or "tough love" (if a parent ... even the Zen Master's "30 blows" are more of this kind) or "a firm hand with a calm mind" may be justified by a situation ...

... but I would say that anger is rarely, if ever, an appropriate response.
http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?11348-Is-anger-ever-justified&p=109416&viewfull=1#post109416

I actually like that old corny Zen Kung Fu TV show as an example of, better than anger, "fighting the good fight" when hard pressed ...


Some folks think that BUDDHISTS ARE MERELY PUSHOVERS. Well, sometimes we are "pushovers" ... allowing events to just push us over without resistance, roll past us, all until we (hopefully) roll back up!

Other times ... like the Dalai Lama in his resistance to China, like the monks of Burma, like Gandhi (okay, not a 'Buddhist' really, but ya get the point), even like "Master Caine" in that old tv show ... we may need to push back, protest, resist, fight a good fight appropriate to the circumstances. Stilll, there is a way to do that, and not do that, and non-do that ... hopefully free of greed, anger and ignorance, free of all resistance even in the resistance. It might be against social injustice, it might be against an illness, it might be about something necessary and right in our own life that deserves standing up for (as well as sitting down on the Zafu for).

HOW WE FIGHT THE GOOD FIGHT MAKES ALL THE DIFFERENCE IN THE WORLD.
http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?8110-SIT-A-LONG-with-JUNDO-THE-GOOD-FIGHT

We have various practices in Buddhism that will help ... but one of the basics is more "old grandmother's advice" than "Buddha". That is to learn to just breathe through it, give it time ... especially give it time before you say something or act on it.

For longer term issues, our Kokuu is about to start a Tonglen circle here at Treeleaf, and it is a wonderful practice for taking in all the pain, anger and suffering of the world and sending out their opposites. (Look for that soon).

Also, nurturing seeds is a traditional practice, and Thich Nhat Hanh and many other teachers endorse such Practices ...

RECOMMENDED DAILY Nurturing Seeds PRACTICE
http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?6540-RECOMMENDED-DAILY-Nurturing-Seeds-PRACTICE

And, of course, not least of all, Shikantaza ... letting things be, letting the emotions go without grabbing on or stirring up ...

Also, not related to anger, but to the very similar (and sometimes very related) emotion of fear, it's positive side and need for balance, Shingen wrote a very wise Teaching here posted just yesterday ...

Fear: Friend or Foe?
http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?15433-Fear-Friend-or-Foe

I felt myself start to get very angry yesterday about something. Believe me, I know!

Gassho, J

SatTodayLAH

Ryudo
07-07-2017, 06:57 AM
Thank you Jundo, thank you all.

Gassho
SatToday

Jishin
07-07-2017, 10:55 AM
Anger is just unspent/unused psychic and physical energy. Get of it without causing harm and move on. Hit a punching bag, let it blow over with sitting, have a martini or whatever else works for you and then go back to giving people hugs and kisses. Just spend the energy. That's all.

Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

Eishuu
07-07-2017, 12:23 PM
I agree with Jakuden, often strong emotions are the tip of the iceberg...for example, there have been times when I've been really angry and when I look deeper anger turns into anxiety, anxiety turns into powerlessness, and once I get to the root emotion and experience that fully, the thunderstorm passes. Been through this a lot dealing with disability. There can be lots of different emotions underneath anger; given the space they start to unfold and change.

Gassho
Lucy
sat today/LAH

aprapti
07-07-2017, 04:32 PM
i love the approach of Thich Nhat Hanh, he wrote a book "anger". If you can summarize a book in four words , it might be: giving attention, looking deeper.


gassho2
Coos

std

Tai Shi
07-11-2017, 10:10 PM
One who walks with peace has no regrets. For the first third of my life, I lived in anger and fear, and a lot of the time I has unhappy, disoriented, mystified. I thought others had all the answers. I was always afraid I might be found out. My life was untruthful. I was only beginning to wonder if there might be a different way. I was especially afraid of women thinking they all hated men. My father was not around, and my uncle was no help. At age 11 or 12, he told me if I got the "urge" to slam a window on it. I listened to dirty stories told by other boys, and then I found a "girlfriend," or should I say we found each other. We had no more idea of what to do with each other than any couple I saw at our high school. But they seemed to have it all together. My stories could go on, as Diazan, or Jundo would tell me. I found my wife, and through some terrible, and beautiful times we stayed together. Now Jundo calls her my best Zen teacher. When I relate some stupid behavior, Jundo just says, "I'd like to meet her someday." Yes, I love her, but it me, I still do not know what LOVE is. All I know is I would give my life for her, and she has already given her life for me. She knows my pain. Tai Shi, Gassho, std

AlanLa
07-12-2017, 04:10 AM
For what it's worth, after I get angry I trace my it back to the source, who is either a buddha or me, or both, or neither, and then I get lost and let it go.

....not that there isn't some wrestling along the way as I sit with it.

Enjaku
07-12-2017, 05:59 AM
Interesting thread. I agree with those who separate anger as an emotion from the person who is experiencing it. Anger is a threat-based emotion, like anxiety and disgust. It arises naturally when our threat-system is activated.

When we encounter someone who is anxious and withdrawn, we tend to respond with compassion. When the same person is angry or aggressive, our instinct is usually to keep our distance. From an evolutionary perspective, anger has served its purpose, protecting the angry person from harm with an intimidating display of aggression.

No one chooses to experience genuine anger. Like anxiety and disgust, anger is a natural response to feeling threatened or vulnerable. If we can recognise this, we may be able to respond to anger more helpfully, with greater patience and compassion, including our own anger.

Russell Kolts writes about compassion and anger. He also facilitates therapeutic groups with violent offenders in prison. I saw him speak once and he said, "next time you see an angry person, try to see someone who is suffering in that moment". This stayed with me.

As Jundo says, we all have seeds of anger. I want to water the seeds of compassion and wisdom in myself and others, including people consumed by anger. If we look closely, the most violent actions, or so called "unforgivable acts" are often perpetrated by those who are most in need of compassion and loving kindness.

Just my thoughts.

Gassho,
Enjaku
Sat LAH

Ryudo
07-12-2017, 08:42 AM
Thank you all.
I learned a few things reading trough your posts.

I wrote a lot of text here that I deleted after reading it again because what I wanted to add comes down to this:
disappointment ≠ anger
(Hope it is not too criptic now...)

Gassho
Marcus
SatToday

Ugrok
07-12-2017, 09:36 AM
Hi !

What i found out during zazen practice, especially relating to fear, not so much anger, is to stay with the body and let it do what it wants. For example, when i feel my chest or throat contracting from fear, i notice that often my first reaction is aversion and i have some reaction like trying to relax, breathing more deeply, stuff like that. In fact it's counterproductive. It shows that I don't want to feel that. And it fuels it.

Now i try (it's really not easy) to say yes. Body, if you want to contract, do it, you know better than me. If you want to make my breathe shallow, do it. The body knows better than us, and it takes care of itself. So now whatever i feel, i allow it, and emotions are allowed to come into balance much faster that way. It's total surrender and it is hard because in the end it means accepting to live and die, but in fact it's much more comfortable than resisting.

Gassho,

Uggy
Sat today

Eishuu
07-12-2017, 10:58 AM
Uggy, I agree...fighting the body is pointless and often if you just get out of the way, it has it's own process and works itself out. There's a lot of letting go in that. Thank you for sharing.

Gassho
Lucy
ST/LAH

Doshin
07-12-2017, 11:24 AM
Interesting thread. I agree with those who separate anger as an emotion from the person who is experiencing it. Anger is a threat-based emotion, like anxiety and disgust. It arises naturally when our threat-system is activated.

When we encounter someone who is anxious and withdrawn, we tend to respond with compassion. When the same person is angry or aggressive, our instinct is usually to keep our distance. From an evolutionary perspective, anger has served its purpose, protecting the angry person from harm with an intimidating display of aggression.

No one chooses to experience genuine anger. Like anxiety and disgust, anger is a natural response to feeling threatened or vulnerable. If we can recognise this, we may be able to respond to anger more helpfully, with greater patience and compassion, including our own anger.

Russell Kolts writes about compassion and anger. He also facilitates therapeutic groups with violent offenders in prison. I saw him speak once and he said, "next time you see an angry person, try to see someone who is suffering in that moment". This stayed with me.

As Jundo says, we all have seeds of anger. I want to water the seeds of compassion and wisdom in myself and others, including people consumed by anger. If we look closely, the most violent actions, or so called "unforgivable acts" are often perpetrated by those who are most in need of compassion and loving kindness.

Just my thoughts.

Gassho,
Enjaku
Sat LAH

Thank you.

Gassho
Doshin
St/LAH

Tairin
07-12-2017, 11:31 AM
One who walks with peace has no regrets. For the first third of my life, I lived in anger and fear, and a lot of the time I has unhappy, disoriented, mystified. I thought others had all the answers. I was always afraid I might be found out. My life was untruthful. I was only beginning to wonder if there might be a different way. I was especially afraid of women thinking they all hated men. My father was not around, and my uncle was no help. At age 11 or 12, he told me if I got the "urge" to slam a window on it. I listened to dirty stories told by other boys, and then I found a "girlfriend," or should I say we found each other. We had no more idea of what to do with each other than any couple I saw at our high school. But they seemed to have it all together. My stories could go on, as Diazan, or Jundo would tell me. I found my wife, and through some terrible, and beautiful times we stayed together. Now Jundo calls her my best Zen teacher. When I relate some stupid behavior, Jundo just says, "I'd like to meet her someday." Yes, I love her, but it me, I still do not know what LOVE is. All I know is I would give my life for her, and she has already given her life for me. She knows my pain. Tai Shi, Gassho, std

Tai Shi

I don't always understand what you write here at TreeLeaf but I understand this and it is lovely. Thank you. gassho2

Gassho
Warren
Sat Today (no LAH YET)

Jishin
07-12-2017, 11:55 AM
Hi !

What i found out during zazen practice, especially relating to fear, not so much anger, is to stay with the body and let it do what it wants. For example, when i feel my chest or throat contracting from fear, i notice that often my first reaction is aversion and i have some reaction like trying to relax, breathing more deeply, stuff like that. In fact it's counterproductive. It shows that I don't want to feel that. And it fuels it.

Now i try (it's really not easy) to say yes. Body, if you want to contract, do it, you know better than me. If you want to make my breathe shallow, do it. The body knows better than us, and it takes care of itself. So now whatever i feel, i allow it, and emotions are allowed to come into balance much faster that way. It's total surrender and it is hard because in the end it means accepting to live and die, but in fact it's much more comfortable than resisting.

Gassho,

Uggy
Sat today

If someone begins to beat you with a baseball bat your body may want to contract and maybe protect itself reflexively but you would do better by getting your mind involved. The body does not know the best course of action. You better not allow it to do just what it wants to do. I think you continually make the dichotomy of body and mind. Me vs them. Just let the self be swallowed by the Self, ego collapse into Ego, little i collapse into big I, form swallowed by emptiness, anxiety collapse into Anxiety. Then anxiety is just anxiety. It's all good, form is emptiness and emptiness is form. Form is form and emptiness just emptiness. Nothing gained. Nothing lost. All perfect yet not perfect. Just learn to live with the ambivalence of life because life is like this.

My 2 cents.

Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

Ugrok
07-12-2017, 12:48 PM
Good point indeed. Maybe we could just say that trying to change what you cannot change is a dead end. So when you feel a difficult emotion, you cannot change it by forcing your body to feel otherwise. But you can act and use your mind to create more favorable conditions.

Sounds better maybe ?

Gassho
Uggy
Sat today

Jishin
07-12-2017, 01:15 PM
Good point indeed. Maybe we could just say that trying to change what you cannot change is a dead end. So when you feel a difficult emotion, you cannot change it by forcing your body to feel otherwise. But you can act and use your mind to create more favorable conditions.

Sounds better maybe ?

Gassho
Uggy
Sat today

I would say accept it (you are in stormy waters while traveling in the ocean) and then chart a course for calm waters and then let it go. Your boat will reach its destination without much effort all by itself with the natural winds of the storm. Or maybe the boat will sink, take you with it and you will die. Out of your hands. :) Just keep on sailing (sitting)!

Gassho, Jishin, ST

Mp
07-12-2017, 02:31 PM
I would say accept it (you are in stormy waters while traveling in the ocean) and then chart a course for calm waters and then let it go. Your boat will reach its destination without much effort all by itself with the natural winds of the storm. Or maybe the boat will sink, take you with it and you will die. Out of your hands. :) Just keep on sailing (sitting)!

Gassho, Jishin, ST
I agree ... the ocean is like our life, sometimes the seas are calm, sometimes they are turbulent. Either way flow with the waves or no waves ... this is life. The seas will be calm or not so calm, whether we like/want it or not.

Shikantaza is like a ships anchor and grounds us when the seas turbulent and chaotic.

Now, just sit, let go of all these mental formations and just enjoy this life. =)

Gassho
Shingen

SatToday/LAH

Frank
07-12-2017, 07:21 PM
Hello my friends. I'm back after a short hiatus ;) I've missed you.

Reading this thread about anger, reminds me of a book about Aikido and the Dynamic Sphere.
There is a page that talks about the ethics of defense in combat...I'm paraphrasing here with apologies to the author.

4- you attack someone for no reason, ending in their death...lowest
3- you provoke someone to attack you, you defend yourself, ending in their death...again low
2- someone attacks you, and you defend yourself, injuring them, possibly ending in their death..acceptable in court, not highest ethically.
1- someone attacks you, you defend yourself in such a way (words or technique), that no harm is caused to you OR the attacker. Highest form of defense in combat.

I'm reminded of a bible quote in Luke that "the soldiers came to arrest Jesus, but he went his way amidst them".

Thich Nhat Hahn says, "let emotions be like a river. Don't become part of the river. Sit on the bank and smile, watching them pass".

I think, with emotions, just as in our sitting, just ......breathe.

Gassho

Frank
Sattoday


:)
JUNDO NOTE: SPLIT TOPIC FROM A PRIOR THREAD



This probably deserves its own topic, but I'll bite.

Emotions aren't justified, they just are. If I'm angry, it's not wrong to be angry. It may be wrong to punch someone in the face. Only our actions need to be justified. An emotion can't be wrong, any more than a leg could be wrong, or your hair growing. It's important not to think that as buddhists, we're not supposed to feel anger, so we suppress it and push it away. Repressing emotions leads to more suffering. When we feel a strong emotion, we have to lean in to it, to feel it completely and thoroughly, and then we can let it go. If we try to stuff it back down, we'll never be able to let go, it'll keep coming back up again and again.
Here in America, there's a sense that in order to really feel your emotions, you have to express them, to "get it out". I don't think that's true. If I'm angry, shouting at my wife only makes us both angrier. I can't pretend like I'm not mad, but I don't have to express my anger all over everyone. I still do, but I don't have to.
So the question is, how do we feel our emotions without letting them lead us into harmful behaviors? I haven't figured that one out yet. One answer is to just sit with your feelings, and it works when you can do it, but it's really not that practical in most emotional situations. Most situations demand a response of some kind. I'm not sure how to respond with compassion and kindness when I'm feeling fear and anger. Seems like not too many people have that figured out, either.

Gassho, Zenmei
#sat

Getchi
07-13-2017, 12:26 PM
Beautiful responses everyone, thank you :-)

I believe, time is being and being is time. Anything that let's you "spend the time" will allow "you" to be "you" again.

Best practice is breath e, next best is sit still.

Gassho
Sat2Day / LAH

Geoff

Jundo
07-13-2017, 01:02 PM
An interesting interview with a scientist proposing some unusual responses to inner anger ...


Psychologist Lisa Feldman Barrett runs a lab where she studies emotions and says that if you pay attention, everyday anger can be a source of wisdom.

Lisa Feldman Barrett, PhD, is a University Distinguished Professor of Psychology at Northeastern University, with appointments at Harvard Medical School and Massachusetts General Hospital. In addition to the book How Emotions are Made: The Secret Life of the Brain,

http://www.ttbook.org/book/want-be-more-understanding-get-angry

More here ...


But not all varieties of anger are divisive and destructive. Others are uplifting and constructive — an antidote to hopelessness. If you’re furious at the political situation, researchers have found, your anger may lead others to try to soothe you, strengthening your bonds with them. ... the anger you share with other like-minded citizens can be empowering, scientists have discovered, and lead to collective action. This kind of anger can even create a community.

Buddhism teaches that anger is a form of ignorance, namely of other people’s points of view. If, in the midst of your fury, you can manage to see your opponents not as evil but as frustrated and trying to make a change, anger can actually cultivate empathy for the other side. In this sense, some angers are a form of wisdom.

Another constructive variety of anger can help in a contest, political or otherwise. Think about football players who intentionally cultivate anger before a game. They shout and jump and pump their fists in the air to get themselves in the right frame of mind for crushing the competition. Their aggression enhances their performance and tells their opponents to beware.

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/13/opinion/sunday/the-varieties-of-anger.html

Gassho, J

SatTodayLAH

Mp
07-13-2017, 02:14 PM
Very interesting Jundo, thank you for this. I really like her approach on this pre-determined response ... how we can respond to not necessarily to the present situation, but rather to a conditioned response from previous experience or encounters.

Going to do a little more read up on her, interesting stuff.

Gassho
Shingen

SatToday/LAH

Kyonin
07-13-2017, 06:52 PM
Hi all,

A few years ago I took psychology at the Uni and I remember I was mesmerized by anger. As a Gen X-er, I grew with anger and fury as means to get whatever one desires. Want to win a fight? Get angrier than the other one and destroy! We can see traces of that in current entertainment.

In this course we learned how most of our emotions are relevant from an evolutionary point of view. We developed emotions in order to survive, to better relate to the universe and to have right responses when threatened or in danger.

The thing is, we also have developed an ego, which loves to tell stories that revolve around primal emotions.

So anger is fine as long as we just reckon we are feeling it, but not create stories about it. It's better to see if anger isn't advising us we are in danger so we can act accordingly. Same goes with sadness.

Now, Buddhist practice allows is to be at peace with emotions. We don't run from them, we don't block them. We are at peace with them and live them fully. If we need to cry, we cry. If we need to feel angry towards a political issue, we do it because that will spring us into right action, instead of destructions.

When we are aware of thoughts surrounding emotions it gets easier to see options that we were blind to. I have tried that an in my own experience, it helps a lot because now I don't cling to emotions most of the time. Of course, sometimes it just happens, but emotions tend to stay less time than what they used to.

My English feels quite rusty today, so I apologize if all that didn't make any sense :D

Gassho,

Kyonin
Sat/LAH

Tai Shi
07-13-2017, 11:28 PM
For me, the hope is for a way through the chaos of emotions, depression or anger, mania, or suicidal. I have found hope here, and it's right after dinner which I enjoyed, and as soon as I finish this little note, I will go sit. I will allow the emotions of pain slide of of that canter who is me, and I seek a middle path on either side as I accept that our cat is claiming my let with affection, and for the most part that intense pain caused because my bones don't work right in my spine, my neck, and my knees is not controlling me, the me that is Calm Poetry, the me Charles (Strong Man). But with great joy I am in severe pain, and I am not angry. There is nothing my body has done to me, so I can accept my pain, and joy, as Mozart did, or Beethoven, or Eliot, or Shakespeare, or Lao Tsu, or Jesus, or The Buddha, or Abraham Mallow, or Issac Perelman, or William Tell, or any middle path person. For me, I have only recently learned a way through the chaos of emotion, so it is my hope that this middle path can lead me away from my anger and remorse. In my list of artists and those who have found a way are Mother Teresa, Emily Dickinson, Jane Austin, Susan B Anthony, And from India and Africa Mahatma Gandhi, Nelson Mandela, From the Holocaust Victor Frankel, fur Martin Luther King, Jr. and Millions of saints of all descriptions, like myself a bipolar Brother Vincent Van Ghough, Salvador Dallhi, Borjas, and so many our Sangha Sisters and Brothers could name who I don't know, and whose names I do not know how to spell, like the writer of The Heart Sutra. Anger is not THE answer, nor is deep depression, and elation which can sometimes drive us to do unthinkable things, so I follow The Buddha's middle path, as did the Ancient Greeks in the Golden Mean. Nor is knowledge just for the sake of just to know any good at all, but to study each bright blessed, benevolent, and loving person, or those who can stand back, appraise a situation, and find a human and giving, path and worthy answers to those emotions I know so little about in my own life. What is it that the brilliant Canadian musician Joni Mitchell, what is it in her music she was trying to teach me?

Tai Shi
std LAH
Gassho

Hoseki
07-14-2017, 12:50 AM
Hi all,

A few years ago I took psychology at the Uni and I remember I was mesmerized by anger. As a Gen X-er, I grew with anger and fury as means to get whatever one desires. Want to win a fight? Get angrier than the other one and destroy! We can see traces of that in current entertainment.

In this course we learned how most of our emotions are relevant from an evolutionary point of view. We developed emotions in order to survive, to better relate to the universe and to have right responses when threatened or in danger.

The thing is, we also have developed an ego, which loves to tell stories that revolve around primal emotions.

So anger is fine as long as we just reckon we are feeling it, but not create stories about it. It's better to see if anger isn't advising us we are in danger so we can act accordingly. Same goes with sadness.

Now, Buddhist practice allows is to be at peace with emotions. We don't run from them, we don't block them. We are at peace with them and live them fully. If we need to cry, we cry. If we need to feel angry towards a political issue, we do it because that will spring us into right action, instead of destructions.

When we are aware of thoughts surrounding emotions it gets easier to see options that we were blind to. I have tried that an in my own experience, it helps a lot because now I don't cling to emotions most of the time. Of course, sometimes it just happens, but emotions tend to stay less time than what they used to.

My English feels quite rusty today, so I apologize if all that didn't make any sense :D

Gassho,

Kyonin
Sat/LAH

Made sense to me!

Gassho
Hoseki
Sattoday


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Tai Shi
07-14-2017, 02:18 AM
So who is to be my Zen teacher? Makes sense to me.

Tai Shi
std
Gassho

Jika
07-15-2017, 05:34 PM
I gave in to anger two days ago.

It's one of those family stories were people you used to love as a child still see the child within you - and criticise everything I am and do.
I went to visit relatives and it was really difficult to accept their usual remarks, which hurt me a lot.

As for anger building communities: Well, yes, it does.

These relatives share the opinion that I'm ugly, uninteresting, a disappointment and a disgrace to the family.
It is probably a good feeling to agree so much, at least when you are the in-group.
Same goes for racists, Islamists or neo-Nazis: Having your pals around is great.

I know these relatives have struggles of their own and held that in mind the last four years whenever we met.

Then I felt I could not take this any more and told them to leave me alone and mind their own business.
Well, I shouted at them. Whereupon they threw me out of the house.

They let me know they expect an apology.
But I'm not sure I want to apologize and what for.
They won't change their opinion and it seems to make them feel better to look down on me, tease me and insult me.

Could all of you who accept anger as a fleeting wave please share how you deal with this??
Their ongoing verbal abuse felt like someone hitting me with a stick again and again.
I tried to go smiling with this for 4 years.

Maybe there are a few of you with divorces, disapproving family?

There seem to be only perfect saints plus me.

I am aware I've written this here, but if people were to answer from their own experience, could we move this to the "all about life"-section, please?

Gassho
Jika
#sattoday

Eishuu
07-15-2017, 05:59 PM
Jika,

I don't know how skilful this is but this is what I might do and what I do do. If someone was treating me in a way I felt uncomfortable or angry about I might first tell them that I wasn't comfortable with the way they were speaking to me and could they please stop (if I was feeling particularly on the ball I might attempt a bit of non-violent communication (observation, feeling, need, request), and if they continued with it (or got worse) then I would just take myself out of the situation whether it was in person or on the phone. I would try and process the emotions away from them. I don't feel comfortable writing more about this unless it is in the 'all about life' section for privacy reasons.

I think that after 4 years of being belittled it's not surprising you snapped and tried to put an end to it. I think repressing anger and letting yourself be hit over and over isn't healthy. It's extremely difficult with relatives and very painful often. At some point I think you need to ask yourself whether you want to continue to have a relationship with them if this is the treatment you receive. Maybe some people can cope with this kind of treatment. I'm not one of them.

Much metta to you.

Gassho
Lucy
sat today/LAH

ps it sounds like you are the 'scapegoat' of the family - the one everyone projects their negative stuff onto. It's a role they have put you in because it suits them and maybe it helps them deal with their own pain.

Mp
07-15-2017, 08:35 PM
I gave in to anger two days ago.

It's one of those family stories were people you used to love as a child still see the child within you - and criticise everything I am and do.
I went to visit relatives and it was really difficult to accept their usual remarks, which hurt me a lot.

As for anger building communities: Well, yes, it does.

These relatives share the opinion that I'm ugly, uninteresting, a disappointment and a disgrace to the family.
It is probably a good feeling to agree so much, at least when you are the in-group.
Same goes for racists, Islamists or neo-Nazis: Having your pals around is great.

I know these relatives have struggles of their own and held that in mind the last four years whenever we met.

Then I felt I could not take this any more and told them to leave me alone and mind their own business.
Well, I shouted at them. Whereupon they threw me out of the house.

They let me know they expect an apology.
But I'm not sure I want to apologize and what for.
They won't change their opinion and it seems to make them feel better to look down on me, tease me and insult me.

Could all of you who accept anger as a fleeting wave please share how you deal with this??
Their ongoing verbal abuse felt like someone hitting me with a stick again and again.
I tried to go smiling with this for 4 years.

Maybe there are a few of you with divorces, disapproving family?

There seem to be only perfect saints plus me.

I am aware I've written this here, but if people were to answer from their own experience, could we move this to the "all about life"-section, please?

Gassho
Jika
#sattoday


Hello Jika,

First off, I am sorry that you faced this experience, I too have been there so I understand how you feel. From what I have read it seems you were justified in being upset ... but were you angry? I don't know, that is for you to decide. But sometimes we need to express ourselves in an assertive or wrathful way in order to convey our message ... what is in your heart is the most important when doing so. A person's intention is shown through their actions, so if your intention is to let them know that is not ok to treat you that way and it comes out in a strong manner, that is fine and appropriate. That being said, we still need restraint and respect when letting folks know how they need to treat us ... we can't just open our mouths and let stuff fly. We can be assertive and strong in our actions with compassion and gentleness in our hearts. I know the words of others can hurt us, but always know that you know the truth, you know who you are ... If they cannot see that, then that is their lose.

Even if we have things that we would like to change about ourselves, you are perfect just the way you are. =)

Gassho
Shingen

SatToday/LAH

Zenmei
07-15-2017, 08:51 PM
I gave in to anger two days ago.

It's one of those family stories were people you used to love as a child still see the child within you - and criticise everything I am and do.
I went to visit relatives and it was really difficult to accept their usual remarks, which hurt me a lot.

As for anger building communities: Well, yes, it does.

These relatives share the opinion that I'm ugly, uninteresting, a disappointment and a disgrace to the family.
It is probably a good feeling to agree so much, at least when you are the in-group.
Same goes for racists, Islamists or neo-Nazis: Having your pals around is great.

I know these relatives have struggles of their own and held that in mind the last four years whenever we met.

Then I felt I could not take this any more and told them to leave me alone and mind their own business.
Well, I shouted at them. Whereupon they threw me out of the house.

They let me know they expect an apology.
But I'm not sure I want to apologize and what for.
They won't change their opinion and it seems to make them feel better to look down on me, tease me and insult me.

Could all of you who accept anger as a fleeting wave please share how you deal with this??
Their ongoing verbal abuse felt like someone hitting me with a stick again and again.
I tried to go smiling with this for 4 years.

Maybe there are a few of you with divorces, disapproving family?

There seem to be only perfect saints plus me.

I am aware I've written this here, but if people were to answer from their own experience, could we move this to the "all about life"-section, please?

Gassho
Jika
#sattoday

No saints here. I'm a recovering alcoholic, using a Buddhist recovery program. We deal with this on a daily basis. I've been on the other side of your situation. I gave my wife this treatment you describe for at least 10 years. It eventually escalated from mild disapproval to full on abuse. She's extremely angry, and I don't blame her. And it only gets more complicated from there. So you're definitely not the only one dealing with dysfunction.
It's absolutely vital that you don't repress your anger or try to pretend like everything's fine all the time. That's how people end up where I am.
Under no circumstances are you required by Buddhism or anything else to submit to abuse. Of that's what this is, then get out. You don't have to take it, but you don't have to lash out. Sometimes the wise action is to withdraw, to say "I can't listen to you anymore" and leave.
I don't know the specifics of your situation but it sounds like there's a good chance you have nothing to apologize for. Belittling someone and then acting like it's their fault is classic emotional abuse.

Gassho, Zenmei

Joyo
07-15-2017, 09:15 PM
Dear Jika, it pains me to read your post as I too have experienced verbal abuse from so called "family" so I know how painful it is. There has already been a lot of good posts and advice here.

One thing I wanted to add is that, as hard as it is, you have to come to terms with the fact that these family members are not going to give you what you are looking for. I gave many years of my life, going back to these abusive people, over and over again, desperately wanting their acceptance and approval. It was a hard road to finally come to the realization that they never will!! They all think I'm a terrible person, they will see me at a store and turn their back towards me, see me when they drive by the street and give me dirty looks. My brother (my only sibling) has hardly talked to me for many years, he had a baby last year and I wasn't even told about it or included, I've never seen 2 out of the 3 kids he has.

There was a time that this behaviour made me suicidal. I had a breakdown several years ago, but thankfully decided to go for counseling when I realized how bad my mental health was. Interesting thing is, I went for counseling to change myself, because I thought I was a horrible piece of shit. As I worked with the counselor, she gradually helped me realize that these "family" members are being abusive. I learned to love myself.....still a journey but I've come a long way.

I don't share these things to sound like a victim, because I don't see myself as one. I share because hopefully my experience can help you with your own. You are not required to have family in your life, if they continue to treat you badly. For me, I have to stay away from certain family members because they are a trigger for me to sink deep down into bad depression.....so I stay away from them. They are not going to change, so I had to change myself and how to deal with them.

You deserve to be around people that will love you, appreciate you, and even point out your faults in a respecful way....we all deserve that. And honestly, you are better off being alone than having these kinds of people in your life. I spend a lot of time alone.....I see other people posting pictures on facebook with their kids enjoying their cousins, family picnics with relatives, etc. etc. etc. I don't have much of that in my life anymore, but you know what...I am happier. You can use that free time to become your own best friend and learn to love yourself, and I guarantee you will be happier.

I hope this helps. I hope you feel better, Jika.

Gassho,
Joyo
sat today/lah

Joyo
07-15-2017, 09:24 PM
Jika, one other thing I should add. My counselor told me something that was a huge help!! She said in dysfunctional families, they will often make a certain family member a target. It is easier to target someone and blame them and treat them poorly than for people to face their own dysfunction. So for these people that have treated you so poorly for 4 years, it may be an escape for them to not face their own drama and problems. But that is not an excuse and you definitely do not have to take that kind of abuse.

Gassho,
Joyo
sat today

Enjaku
07-15-2017, 09:40 PM
Hi Jika,

Sorry to hear you're facing such challenging circumstances. No one deserves to be bullied. It's human to lose your temper and shout sometimes.

It might help to imagine it isn't you in this situation but someone you really care about, then think about how you would want to support that person. This is a good way to cultivate self-compassion.

In difficult circumstances like these, I find it helpful to remember that I don't need to find the answers right away. Be gentle towards yourself. Metta to you.

Gassho,
Enjaku
Sat LAH

Geika
07-15-2017, 09:41 PM
I am sad to read this today. I have no idea how it would feel to be treated this way by family, and I wish metta for all.

Gassho, sat today, lah

aprapti
07-15-2017, 11:59 PM
hi Jika,

you've got lots of advice, so i just like to say that i wish you good luck and send you metta.
if you like to talk about this in german, send me a pb.

gassho2
coos
std/lah

Kyonin
07-16-2017, 05:19 AM
Hi Jika,

Every single day I talk to my parents I face their disappointment and sadness that I have never been what they have built up in their minds. They wish I was married to a beautiful and magazine cover woman. They wish I was a successful business man with lots of money, cars, properties and travels. They wish I could send them tons of money in return for what they invested in me.

Every day they compare me to the neighbor's son, to my successful cousins who seem to fulfill all my parents' fantasies. Everyday they are embarrassed of talking about me to others. My 24 hours job is to be the black sheep of the family.

Every day I call them and I can feel they want me to tell them I am no longer a Buddhist priest, that I am finally returning home to be their model son.

Instead, I'm just me. They are what they are, they say what they say.

It's clear to me that I don't own their minds. I can't change what they think or control their thoughts. They carry on their backs a huge boulder that binds them and suffer a lot for it.

And I don't quit on them. I call them every day because I know they care and love me in their primitive way. I call them because I am grateful to be here, for my education, for having the life tools to never give up.

I'm just me in the same way you are just you. We love you as you are even if you are thousands of kilometers away.

So just surf the waves of family. I'm sure they care about you in their own caveman and primitive way. They are bound by their own mental chains. Be there for them when they need you no matter what.

Now let anger go, breathe and sit with us :)

Gassho,

Kyonin
Sat/LAH

Ugrok
07-16-2017, 08:24 AM
Hello guys and girls !

Was reading the dhammapada today, and there is a lot of stuff about control. "The sage controls his body, controls his thoughts, controls his emotions", says the Buddha, or something like that. Isn't it contradictory with what zen teachers advise, for example Suzuki roshi when he says that you have to let your thoughts roam freely without trying to control them, and the bigger space you give them, the better ?

Kind of puzzled by this question of controlling / not controlling. In my own practice, dropping all control seems to be the best way to handle strong emotions. Of course, it is not dropping all control, since i stay on my cushion, sitting straight up, and i'm not running around screaming. So i guess the answer is kind of zenny, like, dropping all control inside of total control.

Special metta to Jika,

Gassho,
Uggydoo,
Sat today,
LAH

Jishin
07-16-2017, 09:18 AM
Hi Jika,

If a dog bites when you try to pet it, it's not a friendly dog. It's okay to bite back and save your sanity for the sake of all involved. 4372

Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

Eishuu
07-16-2017, 10:49 AM
I've found with some people if I 'bite back' it either results in the abusive behaviour escalating or me inadvertantly providing more amunition for them to attack me with or bad mouth me to others. In general in these relationships it has not felt safe to bite back...and has in fact been qute dangerous.

In a healthy relationship I have been able to bite back and that often moves the situation on in a healthy and productive way. A healthy expression of angry feelings can bring more intimacy and trust with some people - maybe it's the level of genuineness and honesty and the fact you are risking exposing your real feelings and there is nothing hidden. By being genuine (without intent to hurt and without attacking, using 'I' statements) sometimes I think it gives other people permission to be really genuine too and go deeper with feelings.

It reminds me of the first verse of The Poison Tree by William Blake:

I was angry with my friend;
I told my wrath, my wrath did end.
I was angry with my foe:
I told it not, my wrath did grow.

Gassho
Lucy
sat today/LAH

Jika
07-16-2017, 01:23 PM
Thank you all very much.

Special thanks to those who have shared about their own difficulties gassho2

Thank you for the dog, Jishin.
I'm not used to biting and they are not used to me biting back. Maybe we all should get dogs to learn from them.

That's a beautiful stanza, Lucy.

After talking to friends, I have decided to write a letter with "I statements" to my aunt.
The rest have expressed the wish never to see me again and that I'm dead to them, so no use there.

Gassho
Jika
#sattoday

Jakuden
07-17-2017, 12:19 AM
So sorry Jika, what a painful situation. What good advice from everyone here. It certainly doesn't seem like anything in Zen would require you to permit abuse from others, if anything, it would be interfering with their own path of growth and perpetuating the bad habits that cause their own suffering. It sounds like your anger was carrying an important message for you this time, perhaps that it was time for you to take care of yourself by letting go of a toxic relationship?

There is so much pain in the expectations we have of each other. I had to back off from some close family relationships in college to regain some sense of worth. It probably saved my life. It is only now that I can understand the viewpoint from the other side a bit better, as I wrestle with myself not to project my own expectations onto my children. It is difficult!

We are here for you and always sitting with you, for what there is in Zen is truth! I'd be willing to bet that there isn't one of us here who hasn't had an emotional outburst in response to family pressures. If it's one thing this practice has taught me, it's that I'm not above anyone or anything--it's a daily repentance, just like we were discussing in the reading last week. Whatever you choose to do regarding your unkind relatives, I hope you will be kind to yourself!

Gassho,
Jakuden
SatToday/LAH

Joyo
07-17-2017, 01:16 AM
The rest have expressed the wish never to see me again and that I'm dead to them, so no use there.

Gassho
Jika
#sattoday

I know this is very hurtful. I am pretty much dead to my brother, my inlaws also. But I have to say, sometimes it makes me laugh, as in like.....thank you for ignoring me, if you think you are punishing me think again, I don't want such nasty, hateful people in my life anyways.

I"m the "evil, Satanic" Buddhist who has pulled their son away from fundamental Christianity and is raising their grandchildren to be tolerant towards all religions. I joke that I should grow horns and carry a pitch fork. =)

Hugs Jika, the hurt never goes away, but you do learn how to not let these people get to you as time goes on.

Gassho,
Joyo
sat today/lah

Tai Shi
07-17-2017, 01:29 AM
Well Jika, and all,

I get angry when I'm, made fun of because of my mental illness, and or my arthritis. Have you ever been told by a store manager that you will lose your job if you do not start picking up those heavy crates--I was hired with the full knowledge of my arthritis. OR my mental illness. There are laws... but the laws don't help in an individual situation, and there are not laws. NON=tenure laws in the state of Illinois--look them up, non-tenured faculty have no protection from job insecurity. Try to raise a family when the laws just do not apply. This makes me angry--outright insensitivity and what else? Please Listen to Jakuden. I was forced to give up those jobs, and it's only now that I see that the college was a slave driving paper-mill, and I made no money, after figuring in my gas, at the retail which was not doing my arthritis any good. Things are so much better now away from those means of livelihood.

Tai Shi
std (What would Gandhi do?)
Gassho

Suuko
07-17-2017, 05:04 AM
Hello guys and girls !

Was reading the dhammapada today, and there is a lot of stuff about control. "The sage controls his body, controls his thoughts, controls his emotions", says the Buddha, or something like that. Isn't it contradictory with what zen teachers advise, for example Suzuki roshi when he says that you have to let your thoughts roam freely without trying to control them, and the bigger space you give them, the better ?

Kind of puzzled by this question of controlling / not controlling. In my own practice, dropping all control seems to be the best way to handle strong emotions. Of course, it is not dropping all control, since i stay on my cushion, sitting straight up, and i'm not running around screaming. So i guess the answer is kind of zenny, like, dropping all control inside of total control.

Special metta to Jika,

Gassho,
Uggydoo,
Sat today,
LAH

Greetings,

Well everything is in control when you loosen your grip on them. If you hold sand in your hands and try to squeeze it, it'll run out of your hands. If you love someone and try to control and get attached too much, love dies. In Zazen, you have a balance. The back should be straight and you should be still but you also let go. It's about having the balance. This is what Buddha found. If the string of the guitar is too tight, it won't play music. If it's too soft, it won't play music. The middle way is the path.

Gassho,
Geerish.
ST.

Tairin
07-22-2017, 09:01 PM
People do change. Maybe don't give up but give some space

18 years ago just before I got married for reasons I don't fully understand my brother decided he didn't want anything to do with either me or my wife. He decided he wouldn't come to the wedding and pretty much was incommunicado for years afterward. He missed the birth of my son and refused to be acknowledged as an uncle. One of his last words to me was "just because we are related doesn't mean we have to be friends". It was so bad I just assumed I wouldn't have anything to do with him going forward. Then about 5 years ago he became a born again Christian and suddenly was open to being involved in the family. He now accepts being an uncle and has even tried to find common ground with my son. He is quite friendly with my wife now. What change? Well clearly religion although we've never talked about the intervening 13 years.

Through that time I just gave him space and got on with my life.

Not the same situation as Jika's but my point is that people do change. Just get on with your life and give some space. Sounds like you could use the space.

Gassho
Warren
Sat today

Tai Shi
08-08-2017, 01:50 AM
I'm only now finding out what it means to have stings severed as an aging man, certainly not my wife, but another, one who is in constant pain. I feel loss and regret, and I do not feel fear and anger. When was it that fear and anger stalked me? I was a small boy, then as an adult about twenty years ago I lost my mom to cancer, and over about six years, I watched her die. I went numb, and all my emotions stuffed inside, Then about 7 years ago, I began working wit a special therapist, and he was a man. I am a man too, of course. We went thorough interesting times looking over my wife's mother passing, and this brought up all those stuffed feelings. One night I closed the door to our bedroom, curled up around a pillow, and began to cry, I cried, and I moaned, "My poor mother, oh my poor mother." Over and over the chant and moans and tears. I cried for more than an hour! I soaked the pillow through with tears. Now when I think of this time, and all those missed "I love yous" I cry. And, the tears are nothing like that time in our bedroom. My wife knew nothing about this for more than five years. But, now Know it's alright to cry when someone dies, or with separation, or with intense pain; pain comes in many forms, and it's alright to cry when I'm in pain. And, separation is part of living, for nothing lasts forever, not even me. It's even alright to cry over me when I hurt in any way, so soak your pillow, go to sleep, and rise the next day to a different world. Make that world different. Let yourself make your own way, a way your own. Maybe forget some of the pain.

Tai Shi
st, lah
Gassho

Jundo
08-08-2017, 06:15 AM
Over and over the chant and moans and tears. I cried for more than an hour! I soaked the pillow through with tears. Now when I think of this time, and all those missed "I love yous" I cry. And, the tears are nothing like that time in our bedroom. My wife knew nothing about this for more than five years. But, now Know it's alright to cry when someone dies, or with separation, or with intense pain; pain comes in many forms, and it's alright to cry when I'm in pain. And, separation is part of living, for nothing lasts forever, not even me. It's even alright to cry over me when I hurt in any way, so soak your pillow, go to sleep, and rise the next day to a different world. Make that world different. Let yourself make your own way, a way your own. Maybe forget some of the pain.

Your tears even now merge into the ocean, which is the whole world, which is what your mother now is. It is not too late.

Gassho, J

SatTodayLAH