Less music = lasting longer (on the cushion)

[Makkusu]

Hi everybody!

In the last 7-8 months in which I sat Zazen/Shikantaza, I always had big trouble sitting longer than 10-15 minutes. In the beginning, I didn't know how to sit properly. Then I couldn't shut my mind off and I felt like I had to jump and just do something.

Not really happy about this situation, I noticed something a few weeks/months ago. When I listen to music less, my mind is less "bouncy". I tended to listen to music very much. So I tried to not listen to music a few hours before I would sit down on the cushion. It helped me immensely, since one week I sit again and I've always hit the 15 minutes mark. I know that there is nothing to achieve here although it very much sounds like it, but I'm just glad I discovered one of my less wholesome habits. Someone once said that music is kinda like idle chatter, I even think someone from here wrote it. :)

If some of you may have troubles, then maybe try to cut down your music input. This thread was created because I'd like to share this with you and maybe someone has a similar habit which is harmful. gassho1

Gassho, Max
#sattoday

[Jundo]

If it works for you ... do that! :)

I bet for some folks, eating too much or very spicy food too close to sitting, or sitting right after watching hyper special effects shoot-em-up action movies or playing video games or doing the internet/smart phone too much, or with a lack of sleep or too much coffee ... all can contribute to excess agitation in Zazen. It will vary person to person.

I suggest that folks need to create a bit of sacred, quiet space for sitting ... and that means quieting life down a bit, letting the brain drop the over-stimulation, for some short period before sitting. (I recommend that once in awhile we sit Zazen in a disturbing environment, but most times a quiet space is recommended to let the mind settle a bit ...

http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?14875-Sit-a-Long-with-Jundo-Zazen-for-Beginners-%2821%29

So, lay off the chilis or music or games and tv for a bit before you sit if it bothers you (and if it doesn't bother someone, then never mind! I can sit myself with most conditions and after about anything, even a marching band next door, but especially beginners and such might need some extra quiet and reduced stimulation). :encouragement:

Gassho, J

SatToday

[Jishin]

Hi,

With names come confusion and delusion. Words cloud reality. Listen the the sound of rain, a bubbling brook, sea waves crashing or Beethoven's 5th symphony. Better yet, listen to this fantastic piece, John Cage's 4'33"


https://youtu.be/JTEFKFiXSx4

Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

[Seishin]

Ironically I tend to find some Shikantaza moments on the treadmill or when running, normally with a heavy rock playlist for tempo. The last few months when running I've just let the breath be what it is, just like sitting (after 35 yes of regimented 2 steps in 2 steps out) and I've found that I can let the thoughts just drift away. Its that zone Jundo refers to when speaking of Nishijima-san. Its that runners high as it used to be called that's sometime fleeting but a wonderful feeling. Sitting after a run like this always enables me settle quickly. But hey it could be the run and nowt to do with the music anyway. Horses for courses as they say.

[Tommy]

"What good will it be for a man if he gains the entire world, and yet forfeits his very soul?" :p If I had to give up sitting zazen or listening to music, zazen would certainly be out. But if it's working for you, enjoy the silence! I read once about a monk who said it took an entire year of sitting in a monastery just to get the music out of his head!

(ST)

[Tommy]

Hi Myosha. Sorry, I'm new here. Am I supposed to leave if I value music or reading over zazen in general? If so, I guess I will have to delete my account. (I do think it's possible to do shikantaza while listening to music, but if I had to live deprived of one, I would not lose music.)

~ST~

[Myosha]

Hello,

"Me, mine, ours" is not discouraged. Just laughed at. Go for it, then return, or not.


Gassho
Myosha
sat today

[Jundo]

Dear Tommy,

The practice is Shikantaza. Not your formula? £uck off.


Gassho
Myosha
sat today

Myosha. That is too much. Cool it. You can also return or not.

Gassho, Jundo

[Jundo]

Hi Myosha. Sorry, I'm new here. Am I supposed to leave if I value music or reading over zazen in general? If so, I guess I will have to delete my account. (I do think it's possible to do shikantaza while listening to music, but if I had to live deprived of one, I would not lose music.)

~ST~

Tommy,

Fortunately, it is not either/or. There is a time to sit, a time to read or listen to music or sing. It is just that we do not listen to music while sitting Zazen, and also it might disturb some but not all people to listen to stimulating music before sitting. Please listen away.

And my apologies for one of our grumpier members.

Gassho, Jundo

SatToday

[Tommy]

Couldn't agree more Jundo. I think no music during sesshin is generally a good policy. I also tend to appreciate music more after periods during which I could not listen to it, another benefit to selective abstinence. And I certainly feel lucky to live a life in which zazen and music are both possible in abundance! :)

--ST--

[Myosha]

Myosha. That is too much. Cool it. You can also return or not.

Gassho, Jundo

Teacher,

If a student recognizes confidence men it would be circumspect to ignore them. Or not.


Gassho
Myosha
sat today

[Koushu]

Hey Tommy, I very much agree with Jundo Sensei. Sometimes when I do Zazen, like today my mother (she is 83) cannot stop sneezing and when she sneezes it scares people a couple of kilometers away. And sometimes my wife is looking through a catalog or her Facebook messenger pings.

My point is this music can be good. It might help you get to a state where your mind becomes silent even sitting in a crowded bus. Just let it flow, brother. For me when I can I do Zazen in the middle of the mountains, over the years I have still experienced the great joy of being in nature but the last couple of years as my mind silences the experience of me and nature has amplified.

Now when meditating with other, including in a sangha setting, I would agree with Jundo and say off the music.

Good luck brother.

Also to get the music out, that all depends on the person. It will always be there in one form or another and sometimes none-form.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-T377A using Tapatalk

[Jundo]

The traditional Vinaya rules for monks, and even for lay people on special observant days on the Continent (China and South Asia, for example), provide that one should ...


abstain from dancing, singing, music and entertainments

http://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/budethics.htm

According to the Commentary ... Singing includes drama music ... music dealing with Dhamma themes ... Other religious music would come under this prohibition as well. The Commentary adds that singing also includes singing oneself and getting others to sing. The same holds true for "playing music." ... However, there is no offense in snapping one's fingers or clapping one's hands in irritation or exasperation. There is also no offense if, within the monastery, one happens to see/hear dancing, singing, or music, but if one goes from one dwelling to another with the intention to see/hear, one incurs a dukkaṭa. The same holds true for getting up from one's seat with the intention to see/hear; or if, while standing in a road, one turns one's neck to see.
http://www.greatwesternvehicle.org/ati_website/lib/authors/thanissaro/bmc2/ch10.html

Now that being said, most Japanese Buddhists monks and lay folks I know like to sing. I have attended a Karaoke party at Sojiji Head Monastery in which I sang old songs with the Abbot, and my Dharma Grandfather Niwa Zenji was a teacher of Baika, a kind of Buddhist hymn singing ... I think it is really lovely ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8R7Fpu7N18

We have hip hop monks too ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ooZC5b8ZYxk

Of course, I dance during our Zazenkai and we have techno and rave versions of the Heart Sutra!

I am reminded of a funny story from last summer that I witnessed. There is a Sri Lankan temple about 10 minutes from here in Tsukuba, serving the local Sri Lankan population, right next to a Japanese temple. The Japanese temple and local Tsukuba people organized an annual dance called Bon Odori, a kind of square dance to welcome the spirits of the ancestors ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFIVxyWc2sU

The Sri Lankan priests came and the local Japanese people were surprised when they refused (politely) to dance! Then the Japanese were doubly surprised when the Sri Lankan monks refused the offer of a beer! :)

Gassho, J

SatToday