Split Thread: Reception of 'Online' Jukai

[Kyosei]

JUNDO NOTE: I MOVED THIS TO A NEW THREAD FROM OUR 'ZAZENKAI' TALK ON JUKAI THIS WEEK, AS AN INTERESTING TOPIC.

Jundo, thank you for the talk and thanks for the questions (commentary) and answers.

It was very pleasant to listen to all the explanations, perhaps the one that most resonate with me is this one: we're always actualizing, refreshening the ceremony when we put the Precepts into practice. Very beautifully said. Thanks!

Sorry I couldn't be there live, but I have a question; For me, Treeleaf is truly making history with those online Jukai and Shukke Tokudo ceremonies. I would like to ask: do you, previous Jukaiees, felt that he/she was not "recognized" as someone who took Jukai on a "physical" Sangha? I mean: do you tell people you took Jukai on Treeleaf, through an all-online way? what do people say, another priests, other members? How is the acceptance around?

Does the Zen buddhist associations recognizes this kind of ceremonies?

I can imagine what Jundo (and Taigu) went through to stick to this project of spreading the Dharma through online means.

If we show our Rakusu and Kechimyaku to people, or even during a Sesshin, if anyone asks you about how and when was your Jukai ceremony, what do you tell? Or don't you tell anything?

Here in Brasil is kinda "common" that when a stranger shows up (say, in a temple) with a religious garment people asks - politely, of course - what is the person's Dharma name, and maybe goes on asking who is the person's master, where did his Jukai ceremony took place, this kind of things.

There's is no much Zen monks and nuns here in Brasil, I guess, and they are all mostly strict followers of Soto Shu.

Not that it signifies anything other than curiosity for me. I feel part of the Sangha, I studied and sewn a Rakusu. Maybe we're doing this more carefully than some brick and mortar Sangha members do. And from what I'm seeing around, we have here a lot more Buddhist "intellectual" culture, too.

Again, just curiosity. Maybe it is just b*shit.

Looking for sunday. :)

Gassho

Marcos

#SatToday

[Jundo]

Hi Marcos,

If asked at another Sangha about their Jukai or Rakusu, I would expect people to just answer and explain honestly and completely. There will then be folks who understand and are open to it, and there will be folks who are not. Religion is like that.

One of the most traditional and "Japanese" priests in the United States '(an American long trained in Japan with a very traditional Japanese approach to doing things and closely connected to Soto-shu in Japan), perhaps someone I thought very conservative who I would not expect to be open to our ways very much at all, recently sent a long time student of the priest here for Jukai and more because the priest felt unable to offer what we do with the resources available to their Sangha. The priest sent the student here with full knowledge of our ways, how we conduct things, and all blessings for the future path of the student.

It leads me to the conclusion that people are open more and more to this, but not everyone of course. Those who are open are open ... those not sure are not yet sure ... those who are not open are not open ...

Gassho, Jundo

SatToday

[Jakuden]

Everyone I have discussed Treeleaf with at Zen Mountain Monastery has seemed fascinated by it. They offered to call me by my dharma name, but I didn't see the need for confusion as my given name was already on all their paperwork, lol! I did not ask, but I'm pretty sure they would not want me to wear my Rakusu as it does not fit in with their color scheme (it is green). It seems pretty clear to me (again I did not ask, though) that if I were to wish to be a student of Shugen or Hogen, I would need to formally apply as a student and follow their procedures, including eventually their requirements for Jukai. I am quite content with my own teacher and Sangha though, and they seem very welcoming to me as a guest who visits for Sesshin periodically, so as far as I am concerned it is an ideal arrangement!
Gassho
Jakuden
SatToday


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[Mp]

Hello Marcos,

Thank you for your question ... from a personal view and being an Unsui at Treeleaf, I have not had any bad will or anyone who has disagreed with what we do here. If fact, I have had folks quite happy that such a place is available to them.

Practice is practice and it is different for each and everyone of us. I have to be honest and say that I am not here to debate which, if any, is the best practice ... one has to decide that for themselves. If your practice promotes love, respect, gratitude, peace, openness, acceptance then it sounds like a lovely practice. Whether that practice is shared faced to face or over a technological medium I feel is irrelevant ... is the message of that practice being conveyed? When I meet with you, Jundo, my daughter, or anyone for that matter over the internet I see you. I see your eyes, your smiles, your tears ... how is that any different then being right in front of you? In my view there is not.

Sadly some folks are attached to ideas of what practice is and instead of practicing, sharing, learning, and growing they spend their time judging, criticizing, and condemning. Because of this, I feel, that it is important for us to share what we learn here at Treeleaf and show the world that what we do, what we learn, has value to all sentient beings ... and isn't that what practice is all about. =)

Gassho
Shingen

s@today

[Jundo]

... I did not ask, but I'm pretty sure they would not want me to wear my Rakusu as it does not fit in with their color scheme (it is green).

We have run into that. A few Sangha in the West seem to have developed their own internal color scheme for who is what ... certain color for Sangha members, certain colors for priest, certain color for some rank. This does not exist in Japan like that, and is just something those Communities decided for themself, and even seems to vary from Sangha to Sangha here in the West. Most don't have any color scheme and, anyway, it is not part of the Nyoho-e tradition to assign meaning or ranks to color.

Also, some Sangha in the West are very territorial about Jukai, saying that if one is a member of that Sangha one must undertake Jukai only there. Other (maybe most) Sangha are not like that, and say it is fine to undertake Jukai more than once, perhaps with various Sangha or Communities who have had impact in one's life. Treeleaf is of that latter kind, and I myself have undertaken Jukai 3 or 4 times with various Teachers who were important in my Practice, and I received Rakusu from several Teachers.

Gassho, Jundo

SatToday

[Jakuden]

ZMM is picky about their general color scheme. They ask that if you bring your own zafu, that it be black so it matches all the others. [emoji15] I may need to get a black one because sitting Sesshin on the buckwheat ones they have made me really miss my cushy (also green) memory foam Mountain seat, lol. Or maybe then that means I should just deal with it!
I don't really see the difference whether Jukai is "accepted" from one place or another, either way I would think you would be just sitting and chanting and working and listening to dharma talks just like everyone else.
Gassho
Jakuden
SatToday




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[Kyosei]

I did not ask, but I'm pretty sure they would not want me to wear my Rakusu as it does not fit in with their color scheme (it is green).


I don't really see the difference whether Jukai is "accepted" from one place or another, either way I would think you would be just sitting and chanting and working and listening to dharma talks just like everyone else.


We have run into that. A few Sangha in the West seem to have developed their own internal color scheme for who is what ... certain color for Sangha members, certain colors for priest, certain color for some rank. This does not exist in Japan like that, and is just something those Communities decided for themself, and even seems to vary from Sangha to Sangha here in the West. Most don't have any color scheme and, anyway, it is not part of the Nyoho-e tradition to assign meaning or ranks to color.

Also, some Sangha in the West are very territorial about Jukai, saying that if one is a member of that Sangha one must undertake Jukai only there. Other (maybe most) Sangha are not like that, and say it is fine to undertake Jukai more than once, perhaps with various Sangha or Communities who have had impact in one's life. Treeleaf is of that latter kind, and I myself have undertaken Jukai 3 or 4 times with various Teachers who were important in my Practice, and I received Rakusu from several Teachers.

Gassho, Jundo

SatToday

I once asked a member of the Sangha that I eventually visit and sit with, about this. She told me better to "keep each thing at its place" because it could "confuse" some people.

Really is like that: why - if you're connected to another teacher, another "scheme", another method, why would people interfere or "like" or "dislike" or "allow" or "prohibit" if you use a Rakusu and have a name which wasn't given by them?

I imagine at other times, when a monk's robe, kesa and bowls was all they got and in some ways represented an identity, and on some other way a conquer, a symbol of dedication, study, if people told someone to take off their kesa because it doesn't fit to the accepted colors on that monastery or temple.

Doesn't it seems like not recognizing, like disregarding and even disrespecting one's choice and own Way?

Regarding the sister I've mentioned before (from the physical Sangha), she asked me "why do you want to use it here?" (she was meaning a Rakusu received on Treeleaf's Jukai). I don't know. Maybe we don't have to use it. It will not affect the things I receive here. It will not affect the way I sit or bow or gassho. But sometimes I think this recognition is important, it make us feel more connected to the Three Treasures, and our ways could benefit from it. So, I ask: why not? why hide? why conform to other's views? etc. Not an easy subject, I guess.

Gassho

Marcos

#SatToday

[Kyosei]

Hello Marcos,

Thank you for your question ... from a personal view and being an Unsui at Treeleaf, I have not had any bad will or anyone who has disagreed with what we do here. If fact, I have had folks quite happy that such a place is available to them.

Practice is practice and it is different for each and everyone of us. I have to be honest and say that I am not here to debate which, if any, is the best practice ... one has to decide that for themselves. If your practice promotes love, respect, gratitude, peace, openness, acceptance then it sounds like a lovely practice. Whether that practice is shared faced to face or over a technological medium I feel is irrelevant ... is the message of that practice being conveyed? When I meet with you, Jundo, my daughter, or anyone for that matter over the internet I see you. I see your eyes, your smiles, your tears ... how is that any different then being right in front of you? In my view there is not.

Sadly some folks are attached to ideas of what practice is and instead of practicing, sharing, learning, and growing they spend their time judging, criticizing, and condemning. Because of this, I feel, that it is important for us to share what we learn here at Treeleaf and show the world that what we do, what we learn, has value to all sentient beings ... and isn't that what practice is all about. =)

Gassho
Shingen

s@today


Thank you for this wise and kind answer, Shingen.

[gassholook]

Marcos

#SatToday

[Seido]

I wear my Rakusu when sitting, but sometimes I don't if I am away from it, like a lunch time sitting.

If people I sit with don't like my Rakusu, then it is a valuable lesson for them in their attachment to their own ways.
Of course if they ask nicely, I'll tuck it away. It is a valuable lesson to me in attachment and identity.

Robe of liberation boundless!

Gassho,
Seido
SatToday

[RichardH]

Treeleaf is indeed trailblazing, and I am a convert to Jundo's work. Initially I was a "conservative" when it came to Buddhism online. Having grown up with bricks and mortar sangha, I entered the online Dharma "scene" hopeful, and found a landscape of discussion fora consisting of anonymous voices that were often harsh, and bearing no resemblance in spirit to the offline world I knew. Soon it seemed that the internet was hopelessly without credibility. The idea of a genuine online practice community was very inspiring but seemed unlikely to take shape. Then I met Jundo, and came to know Treeleaf, saw that it is the Sangha forging a real practice community.

However, for me this in not an "online Sangha" but a Sangha that is both online and offline, that includes local "Bricks and mortar" relationships as well. I believe it is important to have this online/offline flowthrough where possible. Taking the Shukke Tokudo in the physical presence of my elder brother Shokai (in his beautiful rock garden) while being connected to sangha around the world in a ceremony presided over by Jundo in Japan, was a beautiful example of this flowthrough, and how the future will look.

As far as acceptance of various Buddhist organizations goes, Jundo is empowered to decide the manner in which we go forward, period. The larger Sangha is evolving, and what is trailblazing today will be normal tomorrow. In the meantime, quite frankly, I do not give it any thought. The buck stops here in this heart with my own speech and conduct going forward. What others make of it is not my business.

Treeleaf is a force for good in the Buddhist world, it is wise to support this work.

Gassho
Daizan
Sat today

[Jundo]

If going to sit with another Sangha and it is asked that you not wear or remove your Rakusu from here or another place ...

... then either remove it and sit with them as requested (when in Rome, sit like a Roman ...), or leave and sit under a tree, or with a different group, or take it off and sit while wearing infinite invisible to the eye Rakusu in one's heart ...

It does not matter so much to me, so long as one sits! All good. Follow one's heart and needs at the moment.

However, what a shame to ask someone to not wear a Rakusu from another Zen group! Generally, the Precepts can be undertaken again and again, a Zen Rakusu can be worn at any Zen group one visits, and is a kind of "passport" of sorts I suppose. I have never run into being asked not to wear a Rakusu at Zazen in all my years in Japan, and I don't think I ever ran into that in America or Europe (although I was just visiting groups, not joining as a long term member. If joining a Community long term, I suppose that it is good and natural to eventually join in the Jukai there and receive a Rakusu and such from that Teacher).

Anyway, it is religion.

Gassho, J

SatToday

[Jakuden]

[emoji848]Interesting thoughts, and I probably shouldn't even be assuming that wearing my Rakusu wouldn't be allowed. (Now I am curious and I think I will ask.) Either way I carry it with me in my heart at all times whether I wear it or not--I sit with Treeleaf Sangha whether I am at home on my own cushion, in the parking lot in my car before work, or in a brick-and-mortar Monastery!
Gassho
Jakuden
SatToday


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[Washin]

Hi Marcos,

At the last October sesshin with a Zen group here (Taisen Deshimaru Lineage) I received a lot of questions about Treeleaf. Likewise people asked about my Jukai initiation and I answered that I received it on-line respectively.
They seemed pretty fascinated by the things we do here and how it all works. Not a word otherwise..
The only thing a teacher asked me is to show her the back of my Rakusu in order to see how my Dharma name is spelled correctly. And there was not even a slightest move of the eye brow about the brown colour of my Rakusu as all of the students in that sangha wore muddy black ones.

Gassho
Washin
sattoday

[Jishin]

I would wear my Rakusu regardless of what the teacher has to say. If he/she had a real problem with it they don't accept you for who you are. No need to do as the romans do when in Rome. Zen is not about division. Division should not come from the leadership. Romans should do as romans, Marcos should do as Marcos, and everybody should know that even so, the romans and Marcos are the same and not the same at once.

My 2 cents.

Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

PS: I would tell them that your dharma name is Marcos if they don't like the one Jundo gave you.

[Kokuu]

Hello all

I have been chatting to various folk on the Soto Zen group on Facebook and British Zen priest Alasdair Gordon-Finlayson recently posted an article he wrote some time ago about what to do when you have no Zen group near to you:

http://swz-northampton.blogspot.co.uk/2015/06/what-to-do-when-theres-no-group-near-you_23.html

In this he is sceptical of online groups but makes particular mention of Treeleaf and his good experience of Jundo. I updated him on the progress of the sangha and he replied that he was glad it was still going strong.

As Jundo says, it is important to be honest about where we took Jukai (and Shukke Tokudo, if appropriate). Some folk will approve, others won't. There is no point in trying to convince the latter but just let your practice speak for itself.

As regards rakusu wearing, I believe it is important to follow whatever instruction you are given at a different Zendo. Their place, their rules whether we agree with them or not!

Gassho
Kokuu
-sattoday-

[Jishin]

I think that if they don't accept you for who you are than you don't accept them for who they are. Because of this, that. Because of that, this. Buddhism 101. Out of nothing acceptance and no acceptance is created by our minds.

My deluded 2 cents.

Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

[Kokuu]

I think that if they don't accept you for who you are than you don't accept them for who they are.

Hmmm, I am not fond of tit-for-tat. Isn't the Buddha way to hold ourselves to a certain standard regardless of how others behave?

Or maybe that was not how you meant it, Jishin?

Gassho
Kokuu
-sattoday_

[Jishin]

Hmmm, I am not fond of tit-for-tat. Isn't the Buddha way to hold ourselves to a certain standard regardless of how others behave?

Or maybe that was not how you meant it, Jishin?

Gassho
Kokuu
-sattoday_

They are form vs form. You are form equals form. Not tit for tat. You are simply holding yourself as a mirror reflection of their behavior. You are modeling.

Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

[Jundo]

I think that if they don't accept you for who you are than you don't accept them for who they are. Because of this, that. Because of that, this. Buddhism 101. Out of nothing acceptance and no acceptance is created by our minds.

My deluded 2 cents.

Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

Who is not accepting whom? Perhaps you are not accepting them?

Gassho, J

SatToday

[Jishin]

Who is not accepting whom? Perhaps you are not accepting them?

Gassho, J

SatToday

That is true. In my half baked deluded perception they don't accept and I don't accept. No bad intent though. Just mirroring behavior.

Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

[Washin]

http://swz-northampton.blogspot.co.u...ar-you_23.html

Thank you for the good read, Kokuu gassho2

Gassho
Washin
st

[Kyotai]

I tend to think that when you enter a new Sagnha, you should respect the way they do things.

If they do not accept your dharma name, Raksu color or having undertaken Jukai at Treeleaf....so be it. They SHOULD be skeptical until proven otherwise. I held the same skeptical eye, and I bet a lot of you did too :)

No need to cling to any achievement or name to validate your practice or what's in your heart.

I have brought my Raksu along to my local sitting group to show them. But I don't wear it outside my house.

Gassho, Kyotai
ST

[Jakuden]

I think being a business owner shocked me into the reality of why, as the leader of a organization, you are forced to make certain decisions about rules that apply to everyone. It is difficult to understand from other positions. But I've learned the hard way over and over that there is always an individual that tests the boundaries of every rule... I can see where the leader of a monastery, for example, would have to figure out where to draw the line about what to allow in the zendo... Rakusus from other places? Any color? What about robes? What about garb from other sects? Then how about following their own group's rituals, etc if they are wearing their garb? It sounds silly, but I swear that's how it goes when you are dealing with people in an organization. You can try to define every single thing for the sake of simplicity, but there will always be a question that makes you have to define it further. If you just allow anything and try to be tolerant--then the complaints begin. Things don't run smoothly and effort is wasted on a lot of little issues that become disproportionately time consuming... frankly it's all a giant pain in the ass but it's what you sign up for when you run an organization.
So I usually give the benefit of the doubt as to why a rule or policy is what it is. I can bend a little too if it's an organization whose services I find otherwise beneficial.
Gassho
Jakuden
SatToday


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[Kyosei]

You can try to define every single thing for the sake of simplicity, but there will always be a question that makes you have to define it further.

It is said that was why and how the Buddha's created the vinaya code.

I say, in some places rules applies only to unknown/poor/low rank people. Let the titled ones, the Masters, the Roshis, the Papas, cross the doors with all their fancy clothes, rakusus, etc, would the rules applies equally, I guess?

I've been observing throughout my life that the more people have or show they have, the more people show "good will" and respect on showing (and even breaking) rules.
I'm not insinuating or referring to you and your job, my friend, let me put it clear.

I bet we could not differentiate the historical Buddha from any other of his followers, as I bet we could not differentiate Jesus from his disciples, only observing the external signs.


They SHOULD be skeptical until proven otherwise. I held the same skeptical eye, and I bet a lot of you did too

I can understand people can abuse a condition, of course, but if one states clearly that he's still a student, not a teacher...behind their Rakusu's there is scriptions describing where and when that person was initiated... his Dharma name, his Preceptor's name... also, there's the document proving all that... and also, the way of sitting, some understanding of buddhist philosophy, the postures. All of this can be easily observable, I guess...

Then, what should be proved and to who? Why would someone fake the condition of being a buddhist student? (I can conceive people would fake something they admire, they want to reach) and who can claim to know buddhism and that is the utmost authority on Dharma? And if he/she really can, how can he/she preserves equanimity?

I think it would be a much better and beautiful thing to give some credit if one accomplish certain general requirements like the ones I've mentioned.

In this matter, it is becoming very clear to me that people only judge from what they "think" they know or, at best, from the visions or experiences results they insist in cling to. Better to say "don't know" if we don't know. But there's that curious behavior:
Why people insist in judging and condemning without showing, at least, a little more of good will to further investigate and then give an opinion (or allow, or disallow)?

What catches for me in this question is tolerance. Of course we should respect, of course we should always respect, but it doesn't mean we can not question respectfully and state our truth respectfully and stand up for what we believe respectfully.

Of course I'm talking about when we are a visitor, not a regular member of a Sangha.

On visiting a Zen center, would they ask the Dalai Lama to take out his yellow robe because it does not conform to the rules there? and how about a student?

Gassho

Marcos

#SatToday

[Jakuden]

Again,speaking from the position of decision maker, in a large organization it is difficult to allot every single individual the consideration they want just based on time constraints! There are too many things on the manager's desk to give everything immediate attention. The people actually doing the scheduling, running the programs, admitting students and assigning them duties, etc etc all want definitions of who to allow to do what. Trying to guess why someone will want to do something is futile, I discovered, because they will and you won't understand why when it happens, so you try to give people rules and guidelines... if it were me and my manager in charge of a monastery instead of a vet hospital, she would be after me with "ok can you make me a list of what monasteries we allow rakusus from? Do they need to have papers? If so, what kind? Do we let them have Dokusan instead of Daisan since they have taken Jukai? What if they enter halfway through Sesshin and no one has time to check?" Etc, etc ad Infinitum. I'm playing devil's advocate, but I know how it feels to be accused of being judgemental or intolerant when you are really just doing the best you can to keep an organization running and on track.
Gassho
Jakuden
SatToday


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[JimH]

I actually chuckled out loud when reading some of these responses. This discussion resembles a number of discussions I have had over the years regarding Black Belts in martial arts. The question in those discussions was mainly along the lines of "if you have a karate school, and a practitioner of the same style visits your school and asks to join class, should you allow them to wear their Black Belt/uniform?" Similarly, there was a lot of discussion about "do you need to start over if you have earned a Black Belt in the style, but move and start to attend a new school?"

Personally, I look at it this way: the training is still the same. If you understand the precepts and the teachings, and have accepted Jukai through a valid source (i.e., not a "mail order" type thing!), then you are valid and ok. You shouldn't necessarily have to "start over" and prove yourself again from the first step. That just seems petty and ridiculous. Having said that, however, if you move and attend a different sangha, or if you are attending services as a guest in a new sangha, you should respect their requests and guidelines. I would hope that you would be able to have a private discussion with the priest to discuss your status; if they require Jukai through the new sangha, then the decision is up to you as to whether you stay with the sangha or not.

Bottom line, it's all attachment at some level. You are who you are, and you have the training you have, regardless of who recognizes it....and regardless of what form they recognize it in. My wife was with a school for some time that required their students to "renew" their Black Belts every four years. If the student didn't, the rank was no longer recognized. I've never personally known martial arts ranks to expire....what happens at the end of the four years? Does all your training magically disappear? No, only that school's recognition. Anyone knowledgeable about a given art who sees an advanced practitioner move can tell their level of skill. I think that Zen is the same way: title doesn't matter, recognition of training doesn't matter, the rakusu doesn't even really matter. Have you eaten, and did the person that fed you have eyes? :)

Gassho--

--JimH (SatToday!)

[Jishin]

The other side of the same sided coin:

I promote the teacher to teacher. The teacher can say he is a teacher all day long, but he is not till I say so. No me, no student, no teacher. Because of this, that. Because of that, this. Its give and take. If its all take, then...

My deluded 2 cents.

Gassho, Jishin, ST

[Jakuden]

Hello all

I have been chatting to various folk on the Soto Zen group on Facebook and British Zen priest Alasdair Gordon-Finlayson recently posted an article he wrote some time ago about what to do when you have no Zen group near to you:

http://swz-northampton.blogspot.co.uk/2015/06/what-to-do-when-theres-no-group-near-you_23.html

In this he is sceptical of online groups but makes particular mention of Treeleaf and his good experience of Jundo. I updated him on the progress of the sangha and he replied that he was glad it was still going strong.

As Jundo says, it is important to be honest about where we took Jukai (and Shukke Tokudo, if appropriate). Some folk will approve, others won't. There is no point in trying to convince the latter but just let your practice speak for itself.

As regards rakusu wearing, I believe it is important to follow whatever instruction you are given at a different Zendo. Their place, their rules whether we agree with them or not!

Gassho
Kokuu
-sattoday-

Thanks Kokuu, I finally had a chance to read this. Nice to see the positive comments about Jundo and Treeleaf!
Even if one had access to a traditional Sangha, one thing Treeleaf has that I doubt many others do is such easy, direct access to the Teacher's brain! How many years in a monastery would it take doing Dokusan to be able to ask the questions (or look up previous similar ones) we can ask of our teacher in a month? There are definitely valuable lessons to be learned by practicing physically together with other students in a group, but when it comes to teacher-student learning, I think Treeleaf has it all over the other guys. Jundo is not stingy with the Dharma, and we get the benefit!!
Gassho
Jakuden
SatToday


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[Zenmei]

Thanks Kokuu, I finally had a chance to read this. Nice to see the positive comments about Jundo and Treeleaf!
Even if one had access to a traditional Sangha, one thing Treeleaf has that I doubt many others do is such easy, direct access to the Teacher's brain! How many years in a monastery would it take doing Dokusan to be able to ask the questions (or look up previous similar ones) we can ask of our teacher in a month? There are definitely valuable lessons to be learned by practicing physically together with other students in a group, but when it comes to teacher-student learning, I think Treeleaf has it all over the other guys. Jundo is not stingy with the Dharma, and we get the benefit!!
Gassho
Jakuden
SatToday


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Also, I liked this quote about Jundo:


he seems like a guy who wouldn't tolerate too much nonsense

... or too little nonsense. Just the right amount of nonsense. One reason I love it here ;)

Grasshoppers, Dudley
#sat

[Jundo]

... such easy, direct access to the Teacher's brain!

Oh my. Why do I envision this?! [scared]

https://indigenize.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/brain-in-jar-by-fuuka-warosu-org.jpg

Brain in one thing, but can one find one's mind!?

Bodhidharma said, "Bring me your mind, and I will put it to rest."

Hui-ke said, "I have really searched for my mind, but I cannot find it."

Bodhidharma said, "There, I have put it completely to rest."

Gassho, J

SatToday

[Zenmei]

Oh my. Why do I envision this?! [scared]

https://indigenize.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/brain-in-jar-by-fuuka-warosu-org.jpg

Gassho, J

SatToday

Hey, for all we know that's a selfie and the guy doing the hokey pokey and ringing bells on YouTube is just some actor you hired.

Of course, brains in jars are sentient beings, too, so it doesn't really matter either way.

Gassho, Dudley
#sat

[Shokai]

Make that thing interactive and we have a goldmine :D


gassho,

sattoday

[Jakuden]

[emoji23][emoji120][emoji106]
Gassho
Jakuden
SatToday


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[Kyonin]

Hi Marcos,

I wear my rakusu and kesa in public and I have not found anyone that says that Treeleaf is wrong or anything of what we do for that matter. If anything, people seem intrigued in a good way and tend to ask a lot of questions.

As a matter of fact, a few Treeleafers have got here after talking to me :)

At the end it's all about how we keep our practice in everyday life what matters.

Gassho,

Kyonin
#SatToday

[Kokuu]

Even if one had access to a traditional Sangha, one thing Treeleaf has that I doubt many others do is such easy, direct access to the Teacher's brain!

This is very true, Jakuden! Something I was made very aware of shortly after joining Treeleaf was that everyone is free to email Jundo or arrange a meeting by Skype if they needed to talk.

I can say from experience that not all teachers are as readily available or give so willingly of themselves as Jundo does. Also, very few have been known to do the hokey-pokey! [morehappy]

Gassho
Kokuu
-sattoday-

[MyoHo]

Sounds like sitting under a tree suits me just fine, lol.
Like Jundo said, its religion and when you put two religious people in one room, you will find three or more opinions about everything. I think it was our dear friend Koun who said "when you are wearing a kesa, act as if you are not and if you are not wearing it, act as if you were. How attached are we to it? Enough to cause disharmony in the sangha you are a guest at? Never. I would take it off but do it propperly , the way we have been thought, place it on my head and recite
" Oh great robe of liberation, virtuous field beyond all form and emptiness, wearing the Tathagathas teachings, I vow to save all beings" Bow deeply, smile nicely and resume practice. No biggie.

Gassho

Myoho

[Sekishi]

Also, very few have been known to do the hokey-pokey! [morehappy]


But that is crazy - don't they know that's what it's all about?!? :D

It is amazing that with mobile technology we can carry the Sangha in our pocket. It isn't just access to our teacher, it is direct access with each other too. I've chatted with friends in the Sangha at the grocery store, pulled off the road (safety first!), and even in the hospital.

Deep bows to all of you for coming together to practice and share the way.

Gassho,
Sekishi #sattoday



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