shikantaza and mindfulness dhyana

[Aurkihnowe]

hi, so today, after much procrastination, i am going to start to sit, tonight to be exact. here's my question. i've been self-training in theravada style mindfulness meditation (breath, walking, body scans etc.) but im more interested in zen, tbh...i wonder, is there a way to combine the two (yes, i've read many descriptions of shikantaza)...i know thich nhat hanh does breathing and walking practice, and he's technically zen, and i've read about suzuki (he of zen mind, beginner's mind) counting his breath, so it seems like it's possible. sorry for the newby question, and if there is a thread about this already feel free to just link me up to that thread.

gassho,

richard

[Myosha]

Hello,

Throw it all away. Just sit.


Gassho
Myosha
sat today

[Mp]

Hello Richard,

In Shikantaza we just sit ... we sit with what is and to allow things to just be, to not push them away or to chase after them either. Shikantaza and Mindfulness are two separate things and should be practiced like that. Sometimes if someone is struggling, yes we may focus on counting the breathe, but normally we just allow the breathe to naturally flow and to allow our thoughts to just come and go naturally as well.

Jundo has made some new videos on these topics that I think might be very helpful for you ... so have a look.

How to allow the thoughts and emotions that appear during Zazen to drift from mind: http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?14887-Sit-a-Long-with-Jundo-Zazen-for-Beginners-%289%29

Breathing: http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?14885-Sit-a-Long-with-Jundo-Zazen-for-Beginners-%2811%29

Kinhin: http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?14884-Sit-a-Long-with-Jundo-Zazen-for-Beginners-%2812%29

Hope this helps. =)

Gassho
Shingen

s@today

[Jishin]

Hi Richard,

I would just sit like a mountain. Let the clouds come. Let the clouds go. Let them come and go. Sometimes there are no clouds and it's sunny. Sometimes it rains. Sometimes it's pure sky. Sometimes no sky at all. It just is. A mountain, sky, cloud, sun, earth, stars, galaxies, Big Bang and beyond. No siting and no end to sitting. Just sitting.

Understand?

My 2 cents.

Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

[Aurkihnowe]

Thanks all for the feedback...I plan on trying to follow along to the first video shingen posted....I have procrastinated too much already....as they say, " tomorrow never comes". Gassho, Rich

[Jundo]

Hi Richard,

As others have said, in Shikantaza there is nothing to scan ... and we just sit, in the very wholeness and fulfilment of sitting itself. How rare to sit without trying to get something ... especially "enlightenment", which is #gotten# by resting in such, giving up the hunger to get get get.

In traditional teachings, the Buddha considered such non-instrumental teachings as his higher, later way. Some things must be found right here and now by radically abandoning the hunt over distant hills.

That being said ...


... Sometimes if someone is struggling, yes we may focus on counting the breathe, but normally we just allow the breathe to naturally flow and to allow our thoughts to just come and go naturally as well.

...

Breathing: http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?14885-Sit-a-Long-with-Jundo-Zazen-for-Beginners-%2811%29

Actually, I now recommend to folks new to Zazen that they follow the breath for at least some months, gradually moving to open awareness without the need for an anchor. See the above video. The reason is that I now feel that it is too hard for many folks to move to unanchored "open spacious awareness" at the start, and so they should spend a long time placing attention on the breath as a center point, gradually moving to "open spacious awareness".

Gassho, J

SatToday

PS - Richard, although plushies are always so very cute, could I trouble you to place a human face as your avatar? It is one of the ways we can humanize our community, and look each other in the eye a bit.

[Seishin]

Richard

As someone who has only been sitting daily for a few months, since joining Treeleaf, I'd certainly encourage you to "work" through the videos/lessons for Newcomers. I'm not adept at pasting link via tablet but you can access them from the main Treeleaf.org page. I've found these very useful in refreshing my understanding of Shikantaza after a good few years off the Zafu. Look forward to sitting with you.

[Aurkihnowe]

PS - Richard, although plushies are always so very cute, could I trouble you to place a human face as your avatar? It is one of the ways we can humanize our community, and look each other in the eye a bit.. With all due respect, I'd rather go back to a blank pick, or I could use my Facebook pic of clouds in a blue sky. I personally have an aversion to selfies, for two reasons....First I don't want to take the time to fetch up a decent one, and two, I think they are narcissistic. You can trust that I am a human being, but since you are the founder and lynchpin of this website, I do have one or two old pictures I took of myself that I could put up. But, if I had my druthers, I would change it to the clouds. Matches the nature of your basic zazen lesson nine talk. Feel free to send me a ,"private" message or email regarding this.... Gassho, Richard Tines

[Myosha]

Hello,

Throw it away. Just sit.

Teacher is a good rule of thumb. (Not the beating 'rule of thumb')


Gassho
Myosha
sat today

[Jishin]

. First I don't want to take the time to fetch up a decent one, and two, I think they are narcissistic. You can trust that I am a human being...

Hi Richard,

I trust that you're human but it's just that human beings have faces. It's nice to see who I am talking to. A little more personal. That's all.

Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

[Aurkihnowe]

Hi Richard,

I trust that you're human but it's just that human beings have faces. It's nice to see who I am talking to. A little more personal. That's all.

Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_
OK, I think it's just my frayed nerves found the request annoying, but I didn't mean any offense in responding. I will put a different picture
In when I get my computer back...Yes I pawned my computer for smokes.... That's why I'm quitting.... Gassho, Richard

[Jishin]

Thank you Richard. [emoji2]

Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

[Jundo]

Hi Richard,

We all wear masks, and an aspect of our Zen Practice is to get behind them. There is also our True Self coming in and out of our senses which has no face.

But in a community, we are also our human faces. It is what brings a human touch to the place. Imagine that someone came into a bricks and mortar Zen group wearing a Haloween mask and not taking it off, or into your home or for a dinner date. It is a bit aloof and hidden at best. Unless there is some special reason not to (we have had a couple of folks in law enforcement or in othr dangerous situation who had such a reason), we ask that you show a human face so that we can bring a little "eye to eye" around here. It need not be a handsome picture.

Thank you for understanding.

As to Shikantaza, it is a good practice for you perhaps. Nothing lacking, nothing to add. Please sit in the total wholeness and fulfilment of just sitting, feeling in your bones as you sit that there is not one other act in need of doing in the universe in that moment beside crossing the legs, no other place to go, no hole to fill. The sitting is the goal realized, the goal realized is the sitting. No debt to pay in this universe, nothing to get out of hock. :)

Shikantaza is rather different from forms of meditation in which one tries to realize something, or tries to relax or feel peace. How? We realize what can only be realized by giving up the hunt for realization, thus realizing sitting in the completeness of the moment. One finds the peace that only comes from stopping to chase after anything ... including after peace! It is thus a truly existential Big P Peace that holds all the peace and broken pieces of this world. I sometimes describe it as a Peace so abiding and present that it does not even require us to feel "peaceful" all the time ... a kind of Big J Joy even with the fact of sometimrd being happy and sometimes being sad as life brings. It is a sense of "All Accounts Balancing" even when sometimes we are in debt in life, and sometimes we are flush with wealth.

Then, rising from the cushion, we realize a way to be in life in which there is Peace with all life's sharp and round edges, Equanimity even with the parts of life that cannot be accepted, allowing all life's ups and downs (even as we try to keep our heads above water). It is a good way to live.

Gassho, J

SatToday

[Seishin]

I'd just like to thank Jundo for posting the breathing "lesson" as these last few weeks I've been struggling to let things go when sitting. Feel in need to go back to basics and refocus not focus on my Shikantaza. Plan to go over the newbie sessions after the holidays (grandkids and daughter arrive tonight for a week) and start over. Are we not all beginners?

[themonk614]

Are we not all beginners?


After sitting for most of my life, the more I feel that I'm just beginning. Fortunately, I believe that's a good thing. As Suzuki Roshi said: "In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities, but in the expert's there are few."

Gassho,
Matt

SatToday

[Jishin]

What Suzuki really meant is that in the beginners mind there are a few possibilities but in the experts there are lots of possibilities.

That guy was kinda of tricky. Can never believe what these zen teachers say.

Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

[Shoki]

I'd say just sit and don't concern yourself with all that other stuff. Count your breaths a few rounds if you're really jumpy. To me, other forms of meditation may be fine depending on why you do it. But shikantaza appeals to me because there is nothing attached to it. There is no object there. No mental gadgets. This cuts through like a sword. I strongly suggest watching the video about the clouds and the blue sky. It's my go to video. One of Jundo's greatest hits.

Gassho
Sat today
James