Compassion. Judgement. (No)Self Satisfaction.

[Jigetsu]

Hello Sangha!

Longtime member, longer time lurker. I wanted to offer a stream of consciousness that started off as a question, but grew in to something a little weightier. In the last several weeks, I've been listening to Jundo's Dharma brother, Brad Warner, in audiobooks. The style of delivery in to little bite sized nuggets helped me to deepen my understanding of my practice, even though there's nothing to understand. I did that just because it's true, and I love our Zen doublespeak. One of the things that stood out was Zen and Buddhism being about action. Doing things simply because they need to be done, and they are right to do.

Case 1.
If you see a little old lady walking out of a grocery store, and she drops her bag, it is right to help her pick everything up. This is where things start to get a little jumbled for me from a Zen perspective, and I will admit right off that there is every probability I'm overthinking here.

In my head, the scenario plays out like this. I identify her as an enfeebled human being. When she drops her bag, the bells in my head that are rung are to assist an old woman who likely will have difficulty bending and picking things up. Once I've helped her, she shows me gratitude, and I feel good about myself. Reading this from a Zen perspective, it's not the truth of reality. Helping her for the sake of helping her, because there is no her, and no me, just a thing that needs to be done in this present moment seems to the fuel for what everyone else will see as compassion.

How then, does one manage a compassionate heart without succumbing to a sense of self satisfaction from the gratitude? I ask, because of Case 2.

Case 2.
If you see a car broken down by the side of the road, a pair of jumper cables dangling out from the hood, but the owner of the car in every way presents himself as a gang member, you might be inclined to keep driving out of a sense of self preservation. Culture and societal queues have taught you that such an appearance is accepted as worn by unsavory individuals.

In my head, the scenario plays out like this. A judgement is made about this person, instantly creating a bias that prevents you from stopping to do what needs to be done. In this case I've withheld compassion because of a series of things I'm telling myself that I have been taught. Reading this from a Zen perspective, it's not the truth of reality. There is no me, there is no him, and leaving that behind is leaving something undone that must be done.

How then, does one manage a compassionate heart without succumbing to sense of apprehension and judgement when the situation sets off bias?

In both of these scenarios, I have stumbling blocks. One one hand, it is nice to help an old woman. On the other, it is OK to be aware of your self preservation instinct. Sure, maybe the old woman does CrossFit and could bench press me, but I made the judgement of her years and assumed. Sure, maybe the man with the broken car is a poet laureate who works with inner city kids and has turned lives around. Or maybe they are both what I perceive them to be.

The root of my brain dump here is that in trying to be compassionate, I fill my head with noise. How can one learn to be compassionate for the sake of compassion without wrapping all this minutia around it? How does one discern between ill placed judgement, or wise judgement? How does one not feel good inside when doing good deeds? I feel like that one is important, because as an animal, we will tend to repeat things we find pleasurable. Feeling good for helping people will be very limiting if people doesn't equal all people, and even then, I feel like the idea is to get to the point where you don't feel good nor bad for being compassionate. You just do.

Speaking of which, I think I need to sit.

[Myosha]

"I think I need to sit."

Hello,

Great idea.


Gassho
Myosha
sat today

[Jishin]

Case 1. Pick up her stuff and run away with it. Finders Keepers.

Case 2. Pull over and show him the real gangster.

Gassho, Jishin, ST

[Eishuu]

Maybe you are trying to manage a purely compassionate, idealised act totally free of ego... Maybe just do your best, all the time noticing how the ego jumps in and feels pleased with itself or scared about self preservation. The ego will keep chattering away, but it doesn't mean you have to feed it and you can still try to be compassionate even though it's still messy most of the time. It doesn't have to be perfect. And maybe one day you will act completely spontaneously out of pure compassion, but if that happens it won't come from your head, it'll come from your heart. (Just my thoughts on reading your post, I possibly have no idea what I'm talking about!)

Gassho
Lucy
Sat today

[Jigetsu]

Case 1. Pick up her stuff and run away with it. Finders Keepers.

Case 2. Pull over and show him the real gangster.

Gassho, Jishin, ST

I laughed out loud at that! :)

[Byokan]

... How does one not feel good inside when doing good deeds? I feel like that one is important, because as an animal, we will tend to repeat things we find pleasurable. Feeling good for helping people will be very limiting if people doesn't equal all people, and even then, I feel like the idea is to get to the point where you don't feel good nor bad for being compassionate. You just do...

Hi Jigetsu, gassho1

Awesome question, one we all have to wrestle with. It's nice to feel good, it's ok to feel good, but I understand what you mean... that it should not become the driving reason for doing good. Keep in mind that I know less than nothing, but my current answer is this:

Easy cheesy. Just take the 'I' out of the equation. Problem dissolves.

Deep compassion arises naturally out of the realization of the truth of no-self. Who is suffering? Who is helping? Right action does right action and moves on without a burden of psychological questions and remainders.

I could be very wrong about this, but I don't think we do zen to become better people who do good. I think we do zen to realize the truth of who/what we are. The answer to that question is the answer to pretty much any other question of ethics or what to do. All the good stuff follows naturally from that.

I think what Lucy said is spot on. Sounds just right to me. Good practice.

That said, please do use common sense and intuition to stay safe. No need to walk foolishly into jeopardy. I wouldn't walk into a dark alley to help a group of men just because they called out to me. On the other hand, you may someday find yourself in a situation where accepting risk feels right. Like the aid workers in Syria. The more we practice, I think, the more our intuition will guide us in knowing when and how to act.

Gassho
Byōkan
sat today

beep! beep! Backing up a whole truckload of salt on this one. :rolleyes:

[Mp]

Hello Jigetsu,

Thank you for these questions ...

Case 1: If someone is in need of help, help them with no regard other then just helping them. If they are great, wonderful, if they are not, that is ok too.
Case 2: Whether gangster or a saint, refer to Case 1 for answer! =)

Gassho
Shingen

s@today

[Jundo]

Hmmm, I really feel that you are overthinking all this, Jigetsu, and it is an armchair view really being rather idealistic about what it is to be human ... even a good Buddhist human.

If you see an old lady drop her groceries, it is very nice to help her pick them up if you can. What is wrong about feeling a bit good about it too? I mean, don't go to excess in telling yourself what a saint you are, but nothing wrong with feeling pleasure at helping others. I think that even the Buddha and Dogen felt pleasure at doing what they did to teach and help folks. There is no "your" or "her" or "groceries", and yet there are ... so just be nice when you can.

If I see a fellow at the side of the road who looks dangerous, and the situation appears a bit dangerous in a rough neighborhood, very good chance that I will drive by ... especially if it is only a dead battery (not a car crash) and if my kids are in the car. I pulled a grandmother out of an overturned car once with leaking gasoline, so I am willing to help folks (gives me some small pleasure to think about having done a good thing too). However, like all human beings I judge the situation as best I can. Despite all the old legends about the Buddha giving his body to feed hungry tigers (LINK (http://ignca.nic.in/jatak025.htm)) and seeking out killer bandits (LINK (http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.086.than.html)), there are also plenty of stories of him taking reasonable precautions too (even in the tale of the killer bandit, Buddha is said to have used special magic powers to stay ahead of the bandit's sword). The Brahma Net Sutra, a Mahayana work composed in China but much prized, advises:


When practicing the austerities, the Buddhist disciple should avoid dangerous areas, unstable kingdoms, countries ruled by evil kings, precipitous terrains, remote wildernesses, regions inhabited by bandits, thieves, or lions, tigers, wolves, poisonous snakes, or areas subject to hurricanes, floods and fires. The disciple should avoid all such dangerous areas when practicing the austerities and also when observing the summer retreat. Otherwise, he commits a secondary offense.
http://www.buddhistdoor.com/OldWeb/resources/sutras/net_sutra.htm

Our species would not have survived the first generation without a healthy sense of fear and self-protection, and so long as we are not prisoners of excess or runaway fears, I think it healthy and natural. Compassion for others is also something to be nurtured in us, but sometimes the two aspects will just have to be weighed and chosen between in the heart somehow.

Might the grandmother turn out to be a mad killer who will shoot me for my troubles, while the apparent gang member is a darling who would not hurt a fly? ... Of course! I can only judge by sense and the impressions of the moment. You say "There is no me, there is no him, and leaving that behind is leaving something undone that must be done."

It is just a dead battery, not a drowning baby. Why do you say that it "must be done"?

I think that we can be a little over-idealistic about this path leading us to be completely selfless and filled with compassion. There are times to charge into the burning building, times to chant from outside because it is too hot. There are times to jump into the whirlpool after the drowning baby, times when you will just both drown.

Case by case, wanting to help where I can, judging each situation as best I can.

Gassho, Jundo

SatToday

PS - The late Soto Priest, Kobun Chino, gave this Teaching during Sesshin once. In fact, Kobun himself drowned a few years later trying unsuccessfully to save his own daughter from drowning when she fell into a lake.


Sorry, I was late to sesshin because the old
man next door became sick. He’s a retired
military man and has no wife, no helper.
He finally has become a drunkard. These
few weeks I’ve been worrying about him, so
I went in his house and found him in bed.
He couldn’t walk by himself, but I helped
him to my house and gave him something
to eat. My purpose was to bathe him like
a child, but he is huge, so heavy to carry!
He suddenly felt dizzy and both of us fell
down on the kitchen floor! I had to call an
ambulance. . . .

...

Why do you keep sitting when so many poor people, sick
people, need your help? Awareness and acceptance of how
others are, enables you to meditate. Even if you have a stomach
ache, you can meditate. Do you say, “I have a stomach
ache, so I’d better not sit now” or “Is their boy crying? I
must help him, even if it is time for zazen.” It’s a very tricky
subject. A paradox. Do you take one way or the other way?

...

“Beings are numberless; I vow to save them."

When we think of saving all beings, when one or many
appear to be suffering, you cannot turn your head, your mind,
away from it. That’s the basis of the feeling of saving. You
want to help if you can. Like with illness, whether you have
the skill to deal with it, or you are an experienced surgeon,
still you are not sure you can save the person. The problem in
this vow is taking it literally and getting confused. Actually
you can do only so much, yet you wish you could do much
more. It is a gap between reality and an idea, but you do not
suffer from it. The important thing is the connectedness of
your mind to something, which keeps your life going with a
certain tension, joy, purpose, and a sense of your worthiness to
exist, so to speak. Instead of shutting your mind off from all
the problems we have today, and pretending that you don’t
know the world, you have to deal with what you have got.
If you say that you can only take care of what’s inside of
your skin, and what’s outside of your skin is somebody else’s
problem, that doesn’t work. Your external body, limitlessly
opened, is the larger part of your body, actually. The inside
of your skin is a very small part. It’s a landmark, where your
mind is resting. Whatever exists externally is all included
in your being. It doesn’t matter if it appears to be pleasant
or unpleasant. The question is how to see each being in its
essential nature, not how it appears and not how it should
change. This may be just your temporary perception, so you
have to be very clear about what exists, not how it should be.
If a need is truly urgent, death may be close. Grab the
person and place them in a safe place, or if someone is sick, but
has hope of recovery, you can allow that space. If the danger
is not quite real, as when someone stumbles in shallow water,
you have to see the reality, and give encouragement that one
can walk out by themselves. When our children go away from
our care, we have confidence that we and they are doing fine.
You cannot help, you just watch. It’s too bad that we have
this ambition of perfect happiness. Unless everything is fine,
our mind doesn’t rest. The very best thing is to go cautiously
and confidently.

...

... in ordinary life we have a dilemma. When someone
asks us to help some group, or themselves, how do we
respond? We seem to see very unhappy situations in the
external world, reflecting different circumstances. Political
movements put forth methods to solve social problems, and
sometimes you offer your energy, hoping to solve a basic problem.
But something is missing when we act in that way. We
are forgetting something. We do not know the reason for their
suffering. It could be a national policy which is wrong, but
this approach is a seesaw game. When you press very hard on
one side of the argument, you see just half of the situation. If
you press the other side, it looks like the right answer is over
there. The necessity of acting becomes a big challenge. What
to do, right now! This is the basic matter. You don’t have to
start something new. You just live on, go on living.

https://www.google.co.jp/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiBsNSw7sLPAhUHGJQKHddrAQEQFggeMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fterebess.hu%2Fzen%2Fmesterek%2FKo bun.pdf&usg=AFQjCNFlps1h_FqK0xpUjXo5Utx1z2_HzQ&sig2=0_Bq378OpPdxkXXnVqyPEA

[Jundo]

By the way, I happened to read this story just the other day about the conditions when the Dalai Lama fled Llasa upon the Chinese invasion. As all human beings, he has concerns for his safety sometimes, and it is sometimes necessary to take steps to secure one's safety.

-----------------

[Ratuk Ngawang was one of the senior leaders of the Chushi-Gangdruk (Four Rivers, Six Ranges), a Tibetan guerrilla outfit which fought against Chinese rule and played a key role in the Dalai Lama’s escape to India in March 1959. ]

The pro-Dalai Lama group was able to provide security to His Holiness. If they had not been able, His Holiness would have been handed over to the Chinese authorities. [Our work was to] clear the escape route for His Holiness in Lhoka region [south of Lhasa] by making sure that not even a single Chinese soldier remained on that route. This, we did, by either killing or catching Chinese soldiers along the way. That was in March 1959. Before reaching Lhoka region, all the Chushi-Gangdruk volunteers were scattered in all the four directions. We sent many volunteers along the route from Lhoka to areas near Lhasa to clear the way for His Holiness and to make sure that the Chinese authorities could not capture His Holiness. [We already knew that] His Holiness might not be able to stay in Lhasa, but it was the responsibility of the Tibetan government to ensure that he was safe from the [actions] of the Chinese authorities. We were waiting and fighting in the meantime. On 17 March 1959, His Holiness left Lhasa by foot.

...

When he came out of Norbulingka, he was not in monk’s robe. He was disguised in a civilian dress and accompanied by two-three people for security purpose. All these preparations were made days ahead. His Holiness walked by foot to a place called Ramatrica where there was a boat. After crossing the river, horses were kept ready. Chushi Gangdruk volunteers were waiting. I sent a message through my servant and a monk that the way was totally clear from Lhoka and that there was absolutely no need to worry. This message was received by His Holiness. I was able to meet His Holiness in a place known as Drachima. Then with 10-12 horse-riders, we escorted him secretly.

http://info-buddhism.com/images/Dalai-Lama-Guerrilla-Tibetische.jpg

http://www.phayul.com/news/article.aspx?id=24364

This is very much connected to our current discussion on the Precept for Preserving Life, and matters of self-defense ...
http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?14759-PRECEPTS-III-To-Refrain-From-Taking-Life

Gassho, J

SatToday

[Mp]

Thank you Jundo, that is quite the story about the Dalai Lama ...

Gassho
Shingen

s@today

[Jundo]

Thank you Jundo, that is quite the story about the Dalai Lama ...

Gassho
Shingen

s@today

Please also read the Kobun Chino talk I added to my first comment above. He was quite a realist too, doing what needed to be done as best he felt appropriate in the moment.

Sorry, I am afraid that some questions in this messy world do not always have clear "right / wrong" "good guys vs. bad guys" movielike storybook endings in which the right thing is always done and a light clearly shows the way. Sometimes, that is only true in the romantic and hagiographical stories they write about long dead Buddhist ancestors, not real Bodhisattvas living in a complicated world doing their best to balance Compassion and many things.

Gassho, J

SatToday

[Mp]

Please also read the Kobun Chino talk I added to my first comment above. He was quite a realist too, doing what needed to be done.

Gassho, J

SatToday

Thank you Jundo, I will read that this evening before bed. =)

Gassho
Shingen

s@today

[Kyonin]

Hi Jigetsu,

Sorry for being harsh here, but I don't think we are in the position of judging. Just helping out other sentient beings. No mind scenarios, no imagination.

Just sit zazen and help whenever you can.

Gassho,

Kyonin
#SatToday

[Jigetsu]

No apologies needed Kyonin!

We're Zen folks, I expect a bit of harshness. Or rather, realism in the guise of harshness! In fact, I half expected Jundo to whack me with a stick! :D

[Jundo]

Jigetsu, did you "sit today"? Whack.

Gassho, Jundo

SatToday

[Jakuden]

Something about Kobun Chino's words made a tear fall. They point to something very deep and essential about being human. Thank you for the link to more of his teachings.
Gassho
Jakuden
SatToday


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Byokan]

Thank you Jundo, for sharing Kobun's teaching and the link to his other talks. gassho2

Gassho
Byōkan
sat today

[Joyo]

Thank you, Jundo and everyone. I too will be reading the Kubon Chino.

Gassho,
Joyo
sat today

[Jundo]

Thank you, Jundo and everyone. I too will be reading the Kubon Chino.

Gassho,
Joyo
sat today

Kobun Chino had a wild way a speaking, widely wandering and then some. However, they are wonderful talks as one goes along for the ride in that book.

A few of his audio talks are here too ...

http://www.kobun.jikoji.org/


At the last gathering of some of Kobun’s long-term students in Santa Cruz, CA before Kobun’s death, a student asked, “Kobun, why do we sit?” He thoughtfully and slowly replied:

"We sit to make life meaningful. The significance of our life is not experienced in striving to create some perfect thing. We must simply start with accepting ourselves. Sitting brings us back to actually who and where we are. This can be very painful. Self-acceptance is the hardest thing to do. If we can’t accept ourselves, we are living in ignorance, this darkest night. We may still be awake, but we don’t know where we are. We cannot see. The mind has no light. Practice is this candle in our very darkest room.”

Gassho, J

SatToday

[Joyo]

Thank you very much, Jundo.

Gassho,
Joyo
sat today

[Shokai]

At the last gathering of some of Kobun’s long-term students in Santa Cruz, CA before Kobun’s death, a student asked, “Kobun, why do we sit?” He thoughtfully and slowly replied:

"We sit to make life meaningful. The significance of our life is not experienced in striving to create some perfect thing. We must simply start with accepting ourselves. Sitting brings us back to actually who and where we are. This can be very painful. Self-acceptance is the hardest thing to do. If we can’t accept ourselves, we are living in ignorance, this darkest night. We may still be awake, but we don’t know where we are. We cannot see. The mind has no light. Practice is this candle in our very darkest room.”


That's beautiful, mind if I use it?

thanks and gassho

"SatToday"