Grit in the Lotus

[Kokuu]

Hi all

A blog post I wrote earlier on illness, stories and seeing life as it is:

https://andykokuumclellan.wordpress.com/2015/09/17/grit-in-the-lotus-or-when-zen-is-not-so-pretty/


(https://andykokuumclellan.wordpress.com/2015/09/17/grit-in-the-lotus-or-when-zen-is-not-so-pretty/)Gassho
Kokuu
#sattoday

[Daiyo]

Hi Kokuu.

Your post got me thinking.
I've recently discovered that I'm pretty dumb expressing my thoughts in english, so I will avoid doing it.
But I really liked your blog and consider it a fine source of reference about our style of practice.
Thank you.

Gassho,
Daiyo

Sat Today

[alan.r]

That is an amazing post, Kokuu. Thank you. And thank you for a call for truer stories, stories that aren't, what I would call, sentimentalized/romanticized versions of actual suffering; I think these truer stories exist, as with Matthiessen, but they are too few. Yours, of course, is one of them that feels real to me.

I know you've been unwell - I have some friends in similar positions. My mom is currently very sick (C-diff) and I can't know anyone's pain; it can't be expressed just how awful it is. All I can say is I hope things improve, and this: don't feel judged or discouraged by these stories that are deflections of the what is really going on.

Thank you again and gassho,
Alan
sattoday

[Byrne]

Wonderful essay. Thank you for sharing. very thoughtful and candid. I'll be thinking about it a lot today.

Gassho

Sat Today

[Risho]

Kokuu,

That was simply amazing; you are a beautiful writer.

Gassho,

Risho
-sattoday

[Shugen]

Thank you Kokuu.

Gassho,

Shugen

#sattoday


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[martyrob]

Thank you, Kokuu, for that wonderful, eloquent, touching and honest account of your illness and the insufficiency of Zen practice to always confront the deep down, dirty reality of living. It really touched a nerve with me, partly because of the elegance and honesty of your prose but more so because of the great insight into the limitations and expectations we bring to our practice. This has been something that has been at the back of my mind; a sort of disturbing current that your essay has brought to the fore and will resonate with me for some time to come.
I have just embarked upon training to be a 'Samaritan' and you essay couldn't have been more timely, expressing, with greater clarity, some of the exact same issues we were discussing last night (so much so I even thought of showing it to fellow trainees).


“Being with suffering is hard and my former teacher Ken McLeod once pointed out that it is much harder to sit with suffering than to try and change it. It is human to want to help and to resolve things so that everything is okay again but this is not always possible, and not always what the suffering person wants.“


This conundrum of the human wish to solve the problem rather than just being with the suffering person, in their hole, not feeling their pain but holding their hand and being present with their pain. Nor diminishing the pain with easy platitudes, with superficial sympathy and pity.


So thank you Kokuu, for your powerful insights into the nature of suffering and how we might be kinder and more helpful to both our own and other's pain.




Martyn


Sat today.

[Kyonin]

Hi Kokuu,

Your post really touched me deep within. By no means I can compare what I am going through, but this year I have been in dental pain 24/7. Some days are good, some days are maddening. But all in all, zazen is the best pain killer I have experienced, to the point that I suspended all meds a few days after it all began.

One gets to think a lot about other people suffering physical pain, send metta and just keep on living with what there is.

Zen is useless, yes. But at the same time is life complete and uncut.

Thank you for this teaching.

Gassho,

Kyonin
#SatToday

[Jakuden]

Thank you, that was very powerful! We can be a society of euphemisms and platitudes, although usually well-intentioned. There is a level of physical pain that transcends meditation, distraction, or any attempts at soothing, and sometimes there is no clear purpose or happy outcome (as there is in the closest thing I can use to relate, the pain of childbirth!) I often send Metta and thanks to nurses and health care workers along with their patients, as they are living that reality that no one wants to know about.

I hope you feel better (regardless of whatever helps to do it, you don't need to be judged in your illness either, by yourself or anyone else!!)

Gassho,
Sierra
SatToday

[Joyo]

Thank you very much Many bows to you, I appreciate your honesty and realness.

Gassho,
Joyo
sat today

[Mp]

Thank you Kokuu, lovely post. =)

Gassho
Shingen

#sattoday

[Kokuu]

Thank you all for your replies. I really appreciate that you took the time to read what I wrote.

Martyn, you have my great respect for working with The Samaritans. It is my understanding that there are very restrictive guidelines on offering advice to distraught callers so you have no option but to reign in that natural human urge to make things better and instead listen to the suffering of another human being. Thank you for doing that.

Kyonin - toothache is a horrible thing. Thank you for your practice.


Gassho
Kokuu
#sattoday

[Myosha]

Hello,

Thank you.


Gassho
Myosha sat today

[Jeremy]

Hi Kokuu,

I really enjoyed your blog too!

Thanks
Jeremy
st

[Jundo]

Thank you Kokuu.

You have a ministry to other people with chronic illness. I appreciate your essay ... but not completely. Actually, I think you may sell things a little short sometimes.

Did Buddhas and Masters really die in the Lotus Posture with a gentle smile on their face, beyond all pain? Perhaps for some, yes. I am sure of that. The mind is amazing, and don't discount the ability of some to do just that. (I have documented stories I could relate).

Others went down mostly kicking and screaming. That is Buddha too. We say that when moaning with pain and confusion, it is Buddha moaning with pain and confusion. No problem. When waking up in the middle of the night at wits end, just be so. When confused, that is simply Buddha lost in confusion.

But the next minute, great clarity may come and the whole experience appears quite otherwise. In fact, I know lots of folks who were a great mix, sometimes lost but most of the time surprisingly Buddha-like through much their illness. I have known such cases, and they were not necessarily Buddhists at all (My Christian buddy just died after a long cancer battle, and he was a tower of wisdom, acceptance, positive attitude and strength. Of course, he had moments of despair and fear and confusion his wife tells me.).

I do disagree with you very much on one point (and, granted, this does not come from someone living with chronic and heavy illness) ...

... reports of those with terminal illness who begin to see each sunrise and snippet of birdsong as a blessing rather than those same people who struggle to change the dressing on a weeping sore sometime in the early hours? There are so many tales of the transformative power of suffering but it is important to remember that these accounts are mostly written in retrospect rather than in the middle of the struggle itself... rather than immediately waxing lyrical about the power of practice to transform a situation,

But it does transform the situation. At least sometimes or so much of the time. We do die with grace, we do face hardship with a gentle Buddha smile, at least sometimes. One can see the light which shines as and thru the weeping sore. More than just sometimes, and maybe as the rule more than any exception. Maybe most of the times even. Maybe all the time for the gifted. One does come to truly see the sunrise and to truly hear the birdsong, and other times to truly weep and moan. One can hear the birdsong that is the moan, the light that is darkness.

Maybe you are speaking truth where sometimes we are overly ideal, but maybe you are also selling this path a bit short.

Moan, groan ... admire the sun and birds ... despair and be confused ... sit upright in the Lotus with a gentle smile ... sun face Buddha, moon face Buddha ... all the trip.

Gassho, J

SatToday

[Kaishin]

Thank you, Kokuu

-satToday

[Myosha]

Thank you Kokuu.

Moan, groan ... admire the sun and birds ... despair and be confused ... sit upright in the Lotus with a gentle smile ... all the trip.

Gassho, J

Suffering, as physical pain, has been treated. If not mistaken it's part of the Hippocratic Oath: first, cause no pain.

As an ignorant: is physical pain relief available?

An acquaintance, with terminal lung cancer, received pain medication allowing the transition to be pain free.

Metta to all.


Gassho
Myosha sat today

[Jinyo]

Thank you Kokuu.

We both walk the same path of physical pain/illness - and I am glad of your company.

I have been ill for 26 years now - but only a practicing Buddhist for four. Maybe on my journey I have been practicing Buddhism in different ways - not calling it by that name. Anyhow - it raises some interesting questions:


Has my perception of suffering changed over the course of the past 4 years? Do I feel better equipped to deal with the fall out of being in constant pain? Do I respond differently to the pain, physical and emotional, in others? Am I any less afraid of death?

I'm going to meditate on these questions and write more when I'm able to type without causing more pain :(

Such is life - as Jundo writes - sun face Buddha, moon face Buddha.

Gassho

Willow

sat today, very aware of a racing mind and not at all at peace

[martyrob]

Jundo,


I don't think Kokuu is selling the path short. I think you might have missed his point. I think he is bringing a subtle inflection on the path that is authentic and true. I've watched people die and I'm not so smitten with the 'good death' idea. There's a deal of piss, pus and snot – and fear and terror – resignation and the final peg out. Much of what we say speaks of our own fears. The language we use; “passed on”, “gone to the other side”, “passed into another realm”. The descriptions we console ourselves with; “ She died smiling”, “He found peace in the end”, “He kept his sense of humour to the last”. We avoid the reality because we don't have the strength to confront it and why should we? It is our deepest fear.
So when Suzuki says; “I don't want to die”. That speaks volumes to me. He's my kind of Buddhist and you can keep all your old masters with their beatific smiles, to my life they are neither use nor ornament because they don't speak to my life.
I think the Christians might have a better take on this. Their God died like a human, in agony and fear – all piss, pus and snot, like the rest of us. It's a powerful image; confronting the awful reality. It brings a kind of comfort; that we're not alone, that this is the way it goes.


Kokuu's point was to bring our attention to those 2.00 am moments – the hard moments. People put on a show when they're dying. You're not going to burden your kids, your loved ones, with your deepest fears. What can they do? They can't help. It will only bring them distress. In my father's last few days he was noted for his gallows humour. It gave us a laugh and helped ease the situation. But his wife ( not my mother) told me later of the tears and terror at 2.00 am. And that, as good Buddhists is where we need to be – in the tears and terror. We need to confront , unblinking, our own death – the terror. Isn't that where we need to place our cushion, facing that enormity?


And in the final innings what happens? We're coshed out with morphine. It's preferable to writhing in agony, but where's the awaking, the realisation? In my grandmother's last moments she was tripping on morphine. It was a bad trip. In those moments she came up for air she felt she was being lowered into a grave and a little girl was helping her out. I'm not sure we ever really pay attention to the dying because it's too awful just be with. There were times when my father was dying that I just wanted to run away, and the worst of it was that was just what my father wanted to do too.

You know it suits us all - the medical profession, the family - if the dying are knocked out on drugs. It all looks so peaceful, but for the dying what awful dreams may come?


The profound insight of the Buddha was to go beyond the terror – beyond feelings and that is the path shining through the weeping sore. But the weeping sore still matters and the 2.00 am terror still matters and I am grateful to Kukuu for brining that to our attention because that is where we need to sit.


Martyn.


Sat today.

[Myosha]

Jundo,

"I think you might have missed his point.

When Suzuki says; “I don't want to die”.

Martyn.

Hello,

Realize the teaching and Suzuki Roshi's death statement is obvious.

Not one, not two.


Gassho
Myosha sat today

[Rich]

My wife taught me about dying. The final few weeks she stopped taking all medications including the most powerful pain meds created by man. She said she was fine. Pain was no longer a problem. Nothing was a problem.
One night she just removed her oxygen and died peacefully with the cat in her lap on the lazy boy chair.
I don't know if I'll be able to do that. Will definitely take pain meds if the need arises.

Will definitely sit today

[FaithMoon]

This is an intense thread, and I am particularly interested because my first Buddhist teacher, to whom I was very close, had a chronic illness, and so I was a witness to her ups and downs, and also to her untimely death. I searched today for a teisho on case 94 from the Shoyoroku (Dongshan Is Unwell), and found this by Norman Fischer http://everydayzen.org/teachings/2011/dongshan-unwell-practicing-illness

Faith-Moon
sunfaced/moonfaced

[Jakuden]

This is an intense thread, and I am particularly interested because my first Buddhist teacher, to whom I was very close, had a chronic illness, and so I was a witness to her ups and downs, and also to her untimely death. I searched today for a teisho on case 94 from the Shoyoroku (Dongshan Is Unwell), and found this by Norman Fischer http://everydayzen.org/teachings/2011/dongshan-unwell-practicing-illness

Faith-Moon
sunfaced/moonfaced
Thank you for that link, that was very good!
Gassho,
Sierra
SatToday

[Jundo]

Kokuu's point was to bring our attention to those 2.00 am moments – the hard moments.

Hi Marty,

I know the 2:00 am moments very well. I was a hospice volunteer for several years, my mother died of breast cancer ... I know. I do not discount these times, and Kokuu's point is very very important. Zen folks, Zen Masters, even the Buddha himself (I believe) screamed and moaned when the pain was too much, perhaps felt lost and confused sometimes. Kokuu's words are important to remind us. It is okay to be a Zen fellow and moan, be sad or lost, feel pain or hopelessness sometimes. This is because we are human.

Yet there is also a Faceless Face of this Way which transcends and fills the heart of all that. There is a Silence at the root of the loudest scream, that which needs no healing for never ill ... even as we take our doctor's medicine. An old story about Hakuin and Ganjo ...


A gang of marauders showed up and stabbed Ganto who, before he died, let out a ferocious blood-curdling scream that reportedly was heard three miles away. A hundred years later, Hakuin, a Zen monk was greatly disturbed when he heard that story. He thought, "If even a great master like Ganto screamed so loudly when facing death, what hope is there for me to escape birth and death?" Subsequently, he had a huge enlightenment experience, and afterwards, he said, "Lo, and behind, I discovered that I was Ganto, himself, alive and unharmed!"

We can escape birth and death right at the heart of birth and death. Dogen (who is reported to have died a painful death, perhaps from some form of cancer), wrote in Shoji ... liberation from birth and death right as birth and death ...


Those who want to be free from birth and death should understand the meaning of these words. If you search for a buddha outside birth and death, it will be like trying to go to the southern country of Yue with our spear heading towards the north, or like trying to see the Big Dipper while you are facing south; you will cause yourself to remain all the more in birth and death and lose the way of emancipation.

Just understand that birth-and-death is itself nirvana. There is nothing such as birth and death to be avoided; there is nothing such as nirvana to be sought. Only when you realize this are you free from birth and death.

...

In birth there is nothing but birth and in death there is nothing but death. Accordingly, when birth comes, face and actualize birth, and when death comes, face and actualize death. Do not avoid them or desire them.

Birth and death as the experience of nirvana.

...

This birth and death is the life of buddha. If you try to exclude it you will lose the life of buddha. If you cling to it, trying to remain in it, you will also lose the life of buddha, and what remains will be the mere form of buddha. Only when you don’t dislike birth and death or long for them, do you enter buddha’s mind.



I have no doubt that one can die in pain yet be free of suffering (suffering, Dukkha, in a Buddhist sense is not pain.) Pain is pain, it is natural to resist pain and not wish to feel it. No problem. Dukkha, on the other hand is our resistance to pain AND (a fine point) even our resistance to naturally resisting pain. No problem to be sad or fearful, for that is human. However, there is a solid base one can know at the heart of the greatest sadness and fear.

If one looks at their words closely, almost any Buddhist Teacher I know (me too) will teach that death is "an absolute illusion" caused by ignorance (by the human mind judging divisions such as "start" and "finish") ... but that illness and death are also experiences that are truly felt and cause human beings to grieve and greatly suffer. This Way provides complete escape from sickness, fear, hopeless and even death itself right at the Heart of the very real 2AM sickness, fear, hopelessness and death itself.

Dogen's poem on death, written while he was very sick ... "Yellow Springs" is the doorway in Chinese legend from this world ...

Fifty-four years lighting up the sky.
A quivering leap smashes a billion worlds.
Hah!
Entire body looks for nothing.
Living, I plunge into Yellow Springs.


Gassho, J

SatToday

[Rich]

This is an intense thread, and I am particularly interested because my first Buddhist teacher, to whom I was very close, had a chronic illness, and so I was a witness to her ups and downs, and also to her untimely death. I searched today for a teisho on case 94 from the Shoyoroku (Dongshan Is Unwell), and found this by Norman Fischer http://everydayzen.org/teachings/2011/dongshan-unwell-practicing-illness

Faith-Moon
sunfaced/moonfaced


That was great talk.
Thank you very much

SAT today

[Joyo]

My wife taught me about dying. The final few weeks she stopped taking all medications including the most powerful pain meds created by man. She said she was fine. Pain was no longer a problem. Nothing was a problem.
One night she just removed her oxygen and died peacefully with the cat in her lap on the lazy boy chair.
I don't know if I'll be able to do that. Will definitely take pain meds if the need arises.

Will definitely sit today

I did not know you went through this with your wife, Rich. That is very touching. So much suffering, yet peace and non-suffering in the midst of it.

I always appreciate your posts and your perspective on things. You have a lot of wisdom to share. [gassholook]

Gassho,
Joyo
sat today

[Geika]

Thank you, Jundo, Kokuu, and all. And now, zazenkai.

Gassho, sat today,
Moon-faced Geika

[Rich]

Thanks Joyo. That was 10 years ago and have since remarried.
I appreciate feedback because I know my style can be very direct and easily misunderstood.


SAT today

[Jishin]

I appreciate feedback because I know my style can be very direct and easily misunderstood.


SAT today

I very much appreciate your style too.

Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

[Jundo]

If I don't point out that this Way offers a path through and beyond "2:00 AM", then I am not sure what the purpose of this Practice would be. Of course, so long as we are human and in these frail bodies, there will be "2:00 AM" ... yet there is also such which is Timeless Unbound. Further, as we move down this Path, one realizes that "2:00 AM" and "Timeless Unbound" have been one all along ...

Before beginning Zen Practice, 2:00 AM was just 2:00 AM.

After a time, 2:00 AM was not longer 2:00 AM.

Now, 2:00 AM is just 2:00 AM again ... yet not.

If I did not constantly remind folks of that Wisdom, there would be no reason for us to gather here.

Gassho, J

SatToday

[FaithMoon]

Thank you Jundogassho2

[martyrob]

Thank you for that ,Jundo.I didn't get your original post on this thread and felt it a bit trite and if I didn't challenge you you'd be no good to me as a teacher and I'd be no good to you as a student. Your further elaborations are really helpful because I began to think why am I doing this if I can't answer the 2.00 am moments!



Before beginning Zen Practice, 2:00 AM was just 2:00 AM.

After a time, 2:00 AM was not longer 2:00 AM.

Now, 2:00 AM is just 2:00 AM again ... yet not.


That makes sense. Next step is to embody it. Thank you.


And thank you Rich for you touching story about your wife. I too appreciate you direct style. Your brevity is so much more eloquent than my prolixity.


Now Zazenkai!


Thank you all.


Martyn


Sitting Now

[Doshin]

Kokuu thank you. Your essay and the discussion that followed was a great teaching. It prompted me to revisit the 2 am moments I spent with others. It reminded me of my many 2 am moments in the past when death seemed a blessing. I do not know if my zen practice helped me. However it was the pain that brought me back to my practice after many years iof being pulled away from it after disillusionment. The thoughts of all here have given me much to consider.

i send metta your way, and thank you for your humanity.

Gassho

Randy
satoday

[Kyonin]

If one looks at their words closely, almost any Buddhist Teacher I know (me too) will teach that death is "an absolute illusion" caused by ignorance (by the human mind judging divisions such as "start" and "finish") ... but that illness and death are also experiences that are truly felt and cause human beings to grieve and greatly suffer. This Way provides complete escape from sickness, fear, hopeless and even death itself right at the Heart of the very real 2AM sickness, fear, hopelessness and death itself.

Thank you, Jundo.

At some very basic level this has been a little of what I have learned living in pain. The more I resisted and fought against not feeling pain, the more miserable I was.

In zaze I have seen this as a revelation in the way that it's something I have read for years, but it's until now that I understand. Or at least I think I do.

By no means I am saying I understand Kokuu's pain or how great zen masters died in stories.

But I am sure that living in acceptance of what is, is much easier not to suffer and just go along with it.

Gassho,

Kyonin
#SatToday

[Rich]

Hi all

A blog post I wrote earlier on illness, stories and seeing life as it is:

https://andykokuumclellan.wordpress.com/2015/09/17/grit-in-the-lotus-or-when-zen-is-not-so-pretty/


(https://andykokuumclellan.wordpress.com/2015/09/17/grit-in-the-lotus-or-when-zen-is-not-so-pretty/)Gassho
Kokuu
#sattoday


Some thoughts on pain

The habitual fear based reaction to pain is quite deep and to sit and witness that is not easy. to simply be pain is easy to say but difficult to do.

For some of my chronic pain, the pain is the same but now I don't care.

Internal organ pain is the scariest and most difficult to work with.

Muscular skeleton pain usually responds to rest and then gradual strengthening of the area.

Pain and pleasure are in the same area of the brain. Two sides of the same coin?

Just sitting and breathing deeply can be very healing. Energy just flows up your spine to the top of your head and down your chest to the Hara.

SAT today

[Kaishin]

Rich, your wife sounds like she was incredible woman. I hope I have that kind of equanimity when facing death. Thank you for sharing

-satToday

[Joyo]

If I don't point out that this Way offers a path through and beyond "2:00 AM", then I am not sure what the purpose of this Practice would be. Of course, so long as we are human and in these frail bodies, there will be "2:00 AM" ... yet there is also such which is Timeless Unbound. Further, as we move down this Path, one realizes that "2:00 AM" and "Timeless Unbound" have been one all along ...

Before beginning Zen Practice, 2:00 AM was just 2:00 AM.

After a time, 2:00 AM was not longer 2:00 AM.

Now, 2:00 AM is just 2:00 AM again ... yet not.

If I did not constantly remind folks of that Wisdom, there would be no reason for us to gather here.

Gassho, J

SatToday


Thank you for this, Jundo.


Gassho,
Joyo
sat today

[Rich]

Rich, your wife sounds like she was incredible woman. I hope I have that kind of equanimity when facing death. Thank you for sharing



-satToday


Our whole practice is being just now, trusting just now, and dropping the ego and all the thinking about what will happen. We are fortunate to have this path. Thanks for your comment.

SAT today

[Byokan]

Kokuu,

Thank you for sharing your post. It is beautifully written and very real. Jundo puts it perfectly when he says that you have a ministry, and I bow in gratitude for that.

It’s true, as soon as something happens we seem to instantly separate and begin telling the story of it, to ourselves or to others. This idea of the noble suffering, the illness as a battlefield and a proving ground, is sometimes true, and other times it is something we use, I think, as a shield against the very scary reality that, well, shit happens. Sometimes it seems predictable -- my Dad had a cigarette in his hand every moment of the day for half a century, and guess what, he eventually died of lung cancer. Sometimes it seems random. My boss at my old job had a beautiful two-year old son who had a stomach ache, which turned out to be stomach cancer, and that tiny little kid died a horrible, slow, painful death. Sometimes the reality of illness is too horrible, too real, too much, too fast, or too slow. Sometimes it’s very ugly, and sometimes it’s just dull and grey and endless. We try to make sense of it. We want to know that it isn’t all for nothing. We search for meaning, every one of us.

Here’s a story. Two of my friends got in a car accident recently. No one’s fault -- a moose jumped out on the road. One friend walked away with a few bruises and a cut on her hand. The other lies in the intensive care unit at the hospital, paralyzed, broken and struggling to breathe. Why? Because a moose was walking by. Since this happened I’ve heard people telling stories about it from all different angles, and every story, I’ve noticed, teaches a “lesson” that just happens to coincide with that person’s beliefs, opinions, or worldview. “It just goes to show you...” they all say, and shake their heads, and then fill in the blank to serve their own needs.

Nothing is more human than telling stories. Stories can help us connect, help us know that we’re not alone, help us find meaning, and help us teach, learn, and remember what we need to know. Or help us forget what we cannot bear. Part of our buddhist practice is looking deeper, to uncover the original reality that is there before we tell the stories. Zen practice hopefully enables us to be fully present with what is happening right now, with the weeping sores, the piss, pus and snot, the anger, the fear, the dread, the ragged breath, the scream, the moan, the empty stare, the silence.

Zen practice doesn’t do anything to make any of that better. It doesn’t transform anything. It doesn’t make anything go away. What it does is enable us to see that the suffering is not all that is there. Beauty, grace, freedom, the light shining through, the music... it’s all there too, right inside the ugly, the darkness, the crying out. It really is there. All at once, all one, all real, all illusion, all truth. And yes, I say from experience that this can be experienced in the very midst of suffering, pain, and hopelessness. Right in the worst moment... not only in retrospect after things have gotten better.

But we are human, and none of us is so enlightened as to be in this full equanimity and awareness all the time, no one I know, anyway. Suffering is real. Illness, being human, is not a Zen exam, not for those who are ill, and not for those who love them. All we can do is our best at any time, all of us, those who suffer, and those who bear witness to the suffering. Your post, Andy, wakes me up to be mindful of the stories I’m telling, and inspires me to just be here with it all.

Gassho
Lisa
sat today

[Jundo]

Lovely. gassho1

[Kokuu]

Rich, thank you so much for your insights and sharing. Your wife's story is very touching.

Lisa, that is beautiful. Thank you gassho2 The point about people often writing about suffering post hoc is not that you cannot find the beauty and grace within the very moment of pain but about how it has then become a story all of its own. Your are completely right that we all bring our own story to bear on a situtation and it is completely human. For the person lying in the hospital bed it is a blessing when those who come to visit keep those stories and lessons to themselves and come with an open mind and heart.


Jundo - yes, perhaps there should have been a bit more lotus as well as the grit.

FaithMoon - I love that talk. Thank you gassho2


Gassho
Kokuu
#satthismorning

[Jundo]

Jundo - yes, perhaps there should have been a bit more lotus as well as the grit.



Gritty Lotus, Lotusy Grit.

Gassho, J

SatToday

[Jakuden]

Thank you everyone for all the shared wisdom in this thread, I have re-read it several times and will continue to do so! And thank you for starting it Kokuu, IMHO the post reflects where you are/have been and therefore is perfect as it is... and is fertile ground for discussing the heart of practice and helping the rest of us learn.

Gassho,
Sierra
SatToday

[Shinzan]

Kokuu, Martyn and Lisa, your thoughts bring forth what, for me, is the essence of this practice, its ability to transform anguish by presence. True empathy is the steadfastness to STAY, to stay with whatever is arising, be it physical pain or emotional turmoil. Being with oneself in the midst of anguish. Being with someone else in their anguish, in the certainty that they have the innate ability to be with it too. And that the act of staying with their pain, hearing their story, allows them to hear it too, by which they transform it. This is the why and how of a buddha's "wisdom and compassion." This also releases my need to fix/help/change/enable/rescue the situation to relieve my own anxiety.

When we sit zazen, we stay with all the turmoil that naturally comes up. In the next hour, I might be able to stay with the angry person in front of me. In the next year, I might be able to stay with the distressing diagnosis. In another time, I might be able to stay with the traumatic death of a loved one. Or maybe not. Then I hope to stay with my own vulnerability, my own escapism. I try to hold space for my heartache. And for others' heartaches. I think that's why the robe and bowl are emblematic of this lifeway: the vast field of presence and the embracing bowl that can contain all our humanness and anguish; wisdom and compassion.

Thanks, all, for triggering up this whole thread of our thoughts.
_/grit\_ Shinzan

[Kokuu]

That is lovely, Shinzan. Thank you. I especially like your notion that the robe and bowl hold that space for us to embrace the difficult stuff. A powerful image.

"All the difficult hours and minutes
are like salted plums in a jar.
Wrinkled, turn steeply into themselves,
they mutter something the color of  sharkfins to the glass.
Just so, calamity turns toward calmness.
First the jar holds the umeboshi, then the rice does."

-- Jane Hirshfield


Gassho
Kokuu
#sattoday

[Risho]

gassho2 to this thread

Gassho,

Risho
-sattoday

[Byokan]

Shinzan,

wow. Everything you just said is golden. Thank you so much for this. I will try to remember this forever.

Right now I am writing "stay" on a piece of paper and putting it in my pocket. Sounds silly, but.

[gassholook]

Gassho
Lisa
sat today

p.s. Jundo tells me sit, you tell me stay... if a dog can do it maybe I can too ;) Come to think of it, dogs don't tell stories, either. hmmm....

[Shinzan]

Thanks, Kokuu, for the Hirshfield poem. Sweet and sour......
_/st\_ Shinzan

[Ongen]

Beautiful writing, beautiful words and thoughts. Kokuu, Lisa, Shinzan, Jundo, Rich, Kyonin, Martyn, gassho1

It's all true.

Gassho

Ongen
Sat Today

[Kaishin]

So, home a few days after surgery and been thinking a lot about your post. Perhaps I've been lucky in my life, but this pain is the worst I've ever had and I'm very grateful for modern pain relievers. If I have a choice, I would most assuredly choose to go out in comfort. Jundo and I spoke the night before my surgery, and he said that this practice won't help with the pain and the worry and the fear at all. Also, this practice will help completely with the pain and the worry and the fear. The Buddha's tear cradled by his upturned smile. I can glimpse that, though it can't really be put into words.

Wanted to also highlight something from your blog post:
She is practical on balancing the need for practice with using modern media as a respite from a world of pain and struggle. -- I will say that I've been watching tons of stand-up/sketch comedy shows and movies, and this is very beneficial. Humor is strong medicine (even though it hurts to laugh right now!) We are lucky to have such access to these modern media so readily (they must be used properly, like anything of course). Comedians are great healers.

Sorry for the jumble of thoughts.

-sat(lay)Today

[Joyo]

Wanted to also highlight something from your blog post: -- I will say that I've been watching tons of stand-up/sketch comedy shows and movies, and this is very beneficial. Humor is strong medicine (even though it hurts to laugh right now!) We are lucky to have such access to these modern media so readily (they must be used properly, like anything of course). Comedians are great healers.

Sorry for the jumble of thoughts.

-sat(lay)Today


Kaishin, thank you for this, did I ever need to hear it!! I mentioned in another thread here, I have pneumonia. I have been sick for 2 weeks, have been in bed most of that time. I've been too sick to read, knit, or journal. I have to admit, I have not used some of my time wisely. My mind always gravitates to dark things, watching serious documentaries, reading sad news stories etc. Even reading the comments on yahoo news......omg, they are terrible!! I have also spent time listening to Jundo's videos, but I need to focus more on doing this, and other positive things. So today, I will start fresh, and be more mindful and aware of what I am putting into my mind.

If you have any comedy recommendations, feel free to let me know. This is heading into unchartered territory for me, a comedy? I'm not sure I know what that is lol!! =)

And, glad to hear you are on this side of surgery. It should only get better from here =)

Gassho,
Joyo
sat today

[Jinyo]

Hope the pain eases soon Kaishin

Gassho

Willow

Sat today

[Jinyo]

Kaishin, thank you for this, did I ever need to hear it!! I mentioned in another thread here, I have pneumonia. I have been sick for 2 weeks, have been in bed most of that time. I've been too sick to read, knit, or journal. I have to admit, I have not used some of my time wisely. My mind always gravitates to dark things, watching serious documentaries, reading sad news stories etc. Even reading the comments on yahoo news......omg, they are terrible!! I have also spent time listening to Jundo's videos, but I need to focus more on doing this, and other positive things. So today, I will start fresh, and be more mindful and aware of what I am putting into my mind.

If you have any comedy recommendations, feel free to let me know. This is heading into unchartered territory for me, a comedy? I'm not sure I know what that is lol!! =)

And, glad to hear you are on this side of surgery. It should only get better from here =)

Gassho,
Joyo
sat today

So sorry you are ill Joyo - comedy wise The Big Bang Theory cheers me up every time

Gassho

Willow

[Myosha]

Hello,

" . . . any comedy recommendations . . ."?

Jim Gaffigan - currently the funniest, family comedian around. ( Google-video, Youtube, the usual suspects )

Be better!


Gassho
Myosha sat today

[Rich]

A man went to a ranch to buy a horse, pointed at one and said "My that's a beautiful pony there, what kind is it?"
"That's a palomino said the rancher."
"Well, I'd like to buy that pony 🐎" said the man.

"I gotta tell you" said the rancher "it was owned by a preacher man. If you want the horse to move you say Good Lord. If you want the horse to stop you gotta say Amen."
"Let me try that horse" said the buyer.
He mounted and said "Good Lord"
The horse promptly moved out and was galloping up the mountains. The man was yelling, Good Lord, Good Lord and the horse ran faster and faster.

[Kaishin]

Hello,

" . . . any comedy recommendations . . ."?

Jim Gaffigan - currently the funniest, family comedian around. ( Google-video, Youtube, the usual suspects )

Be better!


Gassho
Myosha sat today

I'll second that--very funny, and a real rarity these days in that his comedy is very "clean". Louis CK is another favorite, but he is completely dark and filthy :p Obviously everyone's tastes are different, but I can almost always find something I like looking through Comedy Central's site/YouTube for stand-up comics or sketch shows.

I know what you mean about getting sucked into "the darkness"--it's easy to do, so I try to avoid that stuff completely.

[Rich]

Suddenly he came to the edge of a cliff and yelled, Whoa, whoa.
That didn't work and he remembers and yelled AMEN. The horse stopped right at the edge of the cliff.
And wiping his brow with relief the man said "Good Lord!"

😊
SAT today

[Rich]

Ok, the first one got broken up so maybe the punch line doesn't work ??

Here's a short one.

A young lady went to her priest for advice. She said to the priest 'Should I marry a fellow who lies to me'
'Yes, unless you want to remain unmarried forever ' said the priest.

SAT today

[Jakugan]

I have to say that Kokuu's blog resonated with me. I don't have an illness but my wife has a chronic condition for which she has been hospitalised more than once and on many occasions the doctor didn't know what they could do to help her. Watching her go through severe pain, sometimes screaming for hours on end in the worst times brought me to the edge and all I could do was sit there, sometimes crying, other times arguing as the stress became too much for both of us and I felt guilty for letting these emotions get the better of me.
But then Jundo's comments remind me to not fight the suffering but be with it. I think it feels habitual to resist these feelings and in a desperate attempt to reject them they become worse and overbearing. Sitting doesn't make these things go away but it helps me to see the sunlight shining through the cracks when times are bad. Thanks for sharing. :)

Gassho,

Simon,

Sat today