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Jundo
08-30-2015, 02:20 PM
http://www.theshirtdudes.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/565x500/3792e1346258422eb320f48364c017b1/t/r/trust_teacher_apparel.png

We continue with Why Zen Students Fail!


One reason is because they trust the Zen Teachers too much sometimes.


Another reason is because they trust their Teacher not enough sometimes.


Sometimes they are blind to a Teacher's flaws, victims of excess devotion, faith and obedience (yes, it sometimes happens, as described HERE (http://sweepingzen.com/letter-of-apology-from-jiun-hosen-osho-of-bodhi-manda-zen-center/))


Sometimes students expect a Zen Teacher to be flawless, saintly and superhuman, and run away at the first sign of humanity.


Students should realize that the teachers are really just mentors, "friends on the way", folks who have been around the block, guides who have walked the path and can help point out the generally good directions and the dangers and quicksand. Learn from the voice of experience and the wise advice, but in the end, each student must do their own walking.



In all cases, the student should learn to see through the Teacher to the Teaching, seeing this messy world and the Pure Land as One.




THE DOWNLOADABLE AUDIO PODCAST VERSION IS HERE:

Click for Podcast or Audio Download (http://treeleaf.podbean.com/e/august-2015-talk-why-zen-folks-fail-part-6)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zip3cnYSQ_w

Shingen
08-30-2015, 07:24 PM
Thank you Jundo ... your uke has got it and trying to roll well. =)

Gassho
Shingen

#sat and rolled today

Getchi
08-30-2015, 10:06 PM
THankyou Jundo, gassho2

Geoff,
SatToday.

Seido
08-30-2015, 10:42 PM
This was a nice talk, thank you.

Gassho,
Ken
SatToday

Jakuden
08-31-2015, 12:17 AM
Maybe you aren't "flawless, saintly and superhuman," but your teachings are interesting, pertinent, and delivered in a manner that my brain can (mostly) process and retain. Many thanks!

Gassho,
Sierra
SatToday

Jundo
08-31-2015, 02:35 AM
Maybe you aren't "flawless, saintly and superhuman," ...

I try to convince my wife and kids that I am, but they don't believe it either. :(

Gassho, J

SatToday

PS - By the way, if anyone is extra interested in this topic of flawlessly-flawed teachers, something else I once flawlessly spoke ...


In my view, "master" is someone with some "mastery" in an art or tradition to pass on and pass down ... from carpentry to medicine to martial arts to Zen Buddhary. It need not mean the "master" is perfect, one can be a "master carpenter", yet not every corner will always be smooth; a "master surgeon" cannot cure every patient, and even the most gifted lifesaver of thousands may sometimes make a bad cut or deadly error. However, one should be pretty darn skilled in applying the art in life, and much more skilled and competent than those without the skills required. As in mastery in the martial arts, there is no technique for never being hit or never losing one's footing ... let alone for winning every battle ... there is no training offered on how to never fall, but rather, endless training on how to fall well. Show me the man or woman who encounters life's obstacles, sunny and rainy days, loops and losses, ups and downs ... all the mess and mayhem of Samsara ... who may be sometimes knocked sideways or down ... but who demonstrates how to be hit well and recover one's footing ... and I will show you a great Zen teacher.

One of the unfortunate aspects of religion is the tendency to put the leader or "guru" on a pedestal as being perfect, beyond any and all human failing ... always wise, never saying the wrong thing, always balanced and in control. The Lineage legends and Sutra story books tend to dip in gold and place on pedestals all our long dead ancestors, scrubbing them of every human failing. I think that unfortunate. Plenty of wannabe cult leaders are ready to play to such an image even now ... and plenty of "need a daddy to tell me what to do" students are ever willing to buy into it. That is a shame.

In fact, there are really no "Zen Teachers" ... for Zen cannot be taught. The "Teachers" are more like experienced "Dharma Friends" offering tips and coaching to help the seeker do all the heavy lifting ... and sitting ... on their own.

and a longer essay, superhuman in its expression, on the topic ...

http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?11255-When-Your-Guru-Goes-Bad-by-Brad-Warner&p=107245&viewfull=1#post107245

Kotei
08-31-2015, 05:53 AM
Thank you, Jundo.

Good, that you're no superhuman, I don't trust those at all.

Gassho,
Ralf sattoday.

CK732
08-31-2015, 05:08 PM
Thank you Jundo this post was very informative and I am happy to know that you are claiming human status and not super human status - that's a tough place to be [emoji3]

Gassho,
Clarisse Sat2Day

Doshin
08-31-2015, 06:39 PM
Jundo,

Your words resonated very well for me and helped me put the past in perspective. Also, "not fall too badly"....I like that, it tells me that I have made some progress all these years and not to be too disappointed when I fall again.

Gassho

Randy
sattoday

Myosha
08-31-2015, 10:05 PM
Hello,

Good lesson. Thank you.

"To perfection . . . and beyond!!" *


Gassho
Myosha sat today

* Inspiration: Buzz Lightyear - (Infinity is so limiting.^^)

Kyonin
09-01-2015, 11:53 AM
Thank you Jundo.

Gassho,

Kyonin
#SatToday

Meishin
09-01-2015, 03:30 PM
Thank you, Jundo

Gassho
Meishin
sat today

Daiyo
09-01-2015, 04:10 PM
Thank you Jundo

gassho,
Daiyo
Sat Today

Hoseki
09-01-2015, 11:27 PM
Thank you, Jundo.

Gassho
Sat Today
Adam

Jakugan
09-04-2015, 03:08 PM
Thank you for the teaching. :)

Gassho,

Simon

Sat today

Joryu
09-08-2015, 01:47 AM
gassho2

nandi #satoday

Ishin
09-08-2015, 02:47 AM
Yes I understand. Thanks for all your talks I find them refreshing and helpful.

Gassho
Ishin
Sat today


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Washin
09-08-2015, 06:16 AM
Great teaching. Thank you.

Gassho,
Sergey

sat2day

Joyo
09-13-2015, 02:34 AM
Thank you, Jundo, much appreciated.

Your post reminds me of a documentary I watched last night.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXUzG6YKuvo



Gassho,
Joyo
sat today

Jundo
09-13-2015, 02:48 AM
Thank you, Jundo, much appreciated.

Your post reminds me of a documentary I watched last night.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXUzG6YKuvo



Gassho,
Joyo
sat today

Yes, thank you Joyo. Anyone interested in "Eastern religions" of any kind should watch that film.

Also this one, which is more serious and supposed to be based on Scientology founder L. Ron Hubbard ...

http://www.newyorker.com/culture/richard-brody/movie-week-master

Gassho, J

SatToday

Byokan
09-18-2015, 05:49 PM
Thank you Jundo gassho2

Gassho
Lisa
sat today

Onkai
04-17-2016, 05:40 PM
Thank you, Jundo.gassho1

Gassho,
Onkai
SatToday