SIT-A-LONG with Jundo: Why Zen Folks FAIL!! (5) - Watching The Clock Rackin Up Points

[Jundo]

https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4063/4337700610_8317f30aed_b.jpg So many Zen students think that the longer they sit the better. They believe 10 years surpasses 10 months or 10 days, which must be better than 10 hours, which is better than 10 minutes or seconds. They treat Zazen like a taxi meter or points to rack up, the more they sit the closer they are to the goal. They equate more and more sitting with going deeper and deeper, or becoming more and more peaceful, or more and more "Buddha-like", or more and more "enlightened".

However, Zazen only truly hits the mark when all measure of time and score, goals and attainment are dropped away. Only then does a moment of sitting contain all time, only then does one realize the destination ever present. Zazen is thus very unlike many forms of meditation (not to mention very unlike our usual clock watching, tally counting, comparing and measuring, goal oriented attitude toward the rest of our busy lives) in which deeper and deeper attainments, and greater and greater achievements, add up with time. In Zazen, one attains the deepest attainment and the greatest achievement, namely, the timeless which is right in each tick of the clock, the goal ever reached again and again in each passing mile on the road across town. But one only realizes so when one sits as the still and round face of the clock which holds all time as the hands make their circles ...

The taxi meter is turned off, yet the taxi proceeds forward on the ride of Buddhist Practice. Only now, however, one realizes that the whole journey is the constant total arrival ... from the door's closing, down every twist and turn, to whatever destinations await. Know that, truly in Zazen, each instant contains all the time in the world and is timeless. One second of sitting has no other time, and contains all time and no time, when one sits while dropping all goals and measures. Truly.

Please stop watching the score, the amounts, the distances, the measures of passing time ... and then one is in a Buddha taxi driving across Buddhatown, all Buddha all the way from uptown to down.

It is a very different attitude toward sitting and all of life from our usual "time is slipping away, the goal is ever distant" way of being.

But don't get me wrong, don't misunderstand: (I am not encouraging you just to sit for half a minute or once a year, as if that is enough. Daily sitting is required).

Sitting for 10 months -is- usually better than sitting for 10 days ... but only if the sitting of 10 months is now beyond watching the clock and the scoreboard. The fellow who has been practicing for 10 years -is- likely to be better at attaining "timeless non-attainment" than the newcomer of 10 minutes. Thus, there is great import to sometimes sitting long and hard all to realize that this never was a matter of time at all. Enlightenment is truly timeless amid passing time ... it is the still center of the sweeping second hand ... and one does not realize such truth by counting the seconds and minutes. Nonethless, it usually take many months and years to truly penetrate such "Timeless Truths". Thus, we sit every day, dedicated and sincere in sitting, like clockwork!

Funny how that works.

So, stop thinking of Zazen as a matter of quantity, time, depth of concentration and anything else that can be measured. Truly, Zazen is just the Treasure Beyond Measure.


THE DOWNLOADABLE AUDIO PODCAST VERSION IS HERE:

Click for Podcast or Audio Download (http://treeleaf.podbean.com/e/july-2015-talk-why-zen-folks-fail-part-5)


https://youtu.be/-EHQbExhUlg

[Meishin]

Thank you, Jundo. So refreshing.

Gassho
Meishin
sat today

[Geika]

Thank you. This has coincided well with a Michael Stone talk on money that I watched right before.

Gassho, sat today

[Jundo]

Thank you for this Jundo. Will there be a link to a downloadable podcast. I really enjoy just listening to teachings over and over.

Gassho
James
SatToday

Oh, thanks for reminding me. Yes, I will add the link when ready.

Gassho, J

SatToday

[Kotei]

Thank you very much.
Indeed, funny, how that time thing works.
Sitting somewhat longer, than I am used to, usually feels shorter for me. [scared]
Think this is, because thoughts on "timer should be ringing really soon now" drop, if I "know" it will be longer than normal and there is no "ringing" near.
Sitting without a timer today, well, feels... don't know... different.

Gassho,
Ralf sattoday.

[broahes]

Thank you Jundo.

Gassho,

Brooks sat today.

[Jundo]

Sitting without a timer today, well, feels... don't know... different.

Gassho,
Ralf sattoday.

Hi Ralf,

The point I am making is not about physically sitting without checking the actual clock (although good to do that sometimes). It is about sitting beyond measure.

I still use a clock (in the old days, they used to sit for the length of a burning stick of incense, before modern watches). A clock is useful.

But when the clock says begin ... sit beyond time. When the clock says to ring the ending bell ... sit beyond time. All thru, as the second hand goes round ... sit beyond time.

It is not a matter of clock or no clock.

Gassho, J

[Kyonin]

Hi Jundo,

Yes, we chase our own tails when it comes to time. We invented a way of measure the pass of the sequence of instants, but failed to realize Time is a bigger concept that ties universes in just a moment.

Thank you for this.

Gassho,

Kyonin
#SatToday

[Kotei]

Thank you, Jundo.

Yes, I got that. But personally, I feel it more easy to sit beyond time, if my thoughts do not remind me on "it will ring really soon".
If there will be no ringing, thoughts about how long I sit/sat do not pop up during sitting.

Gassho,
Ralf sattoday.

[Shugen]

Gassho,

Shugen

#sattoday

[Theophan]

Thank you Jundo.
Gassho
Theophan
Sat Today

[Jiken]

Thanks Jundo

Gassho,

Jiken

[Byrne]

Thank you Jundo.

It seems as though no matter how long you've been sitting, if you're sitting right you're sitting right. If you're not you're not.

Gassho

Sat Today

[Risho]

Thank you Jundo.

Gassho,

Risho
-sattoday

[Getchi]

I have nothing to add but my gratitude.

Gassho,
Geoff.
SatToday

[Byokan]

Thank you Jundo gassho2

Gassho
Lisa
sat today

[delphizealot]

Note, however, that if you sit beyond time in the back of a cab, be sure to get out upon arrival or you'll rack up quite a fare.

-Dan
Sat today

[Nenka]

Thanks gassho1

Jen

[Onkai]

Thank you, Jundo gassho2

Gassho,
Onkai
SatToday

[Jundo]

Thanks for reposting this ... just before my not long not short "long" sit today.

Gassho, J

[Horin]

Such a great teaching jundo, thank you for this clarity!

Gassho
Ben


Stlah

[Teiro]

gassho2

Thank you, Jundo.

Gassho
Christian
Sat/Lah

[Jundo]

I am going to bump this myself, as it came up somewhere else today. Really, one of the most important lessons to take home ...

Gassho, J

STLah

[Bokucho]

Every single step is the destination.

Gassho,

Joshua
SatToday/LaH

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[Seikan]

"the still center of the sweeping second hand"

Jundo, you are a master of metaphor! I saw your related post on FB earlier, and it was great to revisit this again here tonight.

Thank you!

Gassho,
Rob

SatToday

[Luigi]

Thank you, Jundo. This is great.

Gassho,

Luigi
ST

[Tairin]

Thank you for bumping this thread. I periodically fall into this trap.

gassho2
Tairin
Sat today and lah

[Kevin M]

Thanks for bumping this Master Jundo (experimenting with the title lol). Sometimes <cough> my sitting is just to fill in a mental checkbox so I can say that I put in my 15 minutes or whatever. It's perfunctory, not genuine. But I *am* working every day on greater sincerity and quality, on dropping the mental narrative and remaining in neutral with open awareness and letting thoughts flow through that state of merely sitting. It isn't easy though.

Gassho
Kevin
ST for 15 minutes. Hopefully more tomorrow. ;)

[Yokai]

Thank you Jundo gassho1

Gassho, Chris satlah

[Kaiku]

Thank you Jundo. Great teaching.

[emoji120][emoji120][emoji120]

Ghasso
Bobby
SatTodayLAH


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[adahee]

Thanks for bumping this, Jundo.
This is actually why I took a break some years back.
I was sitting just to keep up the statistics on my Insight Timer application.
It felt like the statics were more important than the sitting.
The break helped me realize the trap and I returned to my practice without the app.

After some years I've started to use the app again, but I no longer track the statistics.

Gassho,
steve

[Jakuden]

Thanks for bumping this, Jundo.
This is actually why I took a break some years back.
I was sitting just to keep up the statistics on my Insight Timer application.
It felt like the statics were more important than the sitting.
The break helped me realize the trap and I returned to my practice without the app.

After some years I've started to use the app again, but I no longer track the statistics.

Gassho,
steve

Yea insight timer can be a trap that way, especially for those of us with perfectionist tendencies [emoji846] I still have to resist the impulse to log a session I did off the app just to keep a streak going or rack up a star [emoji23]

Gassho,
Jakuden


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[Tosei]

and there it is. Many thanks for this Jundo.

Gassho,

Peter
stlah

[Teiro]

Thank you, Jundo.

Gassho
Teiro

Sat

[Sunscythe]

Thank you, Jundo. This really spoke to me; Needed to hear it. gassho1

Gassho,

Nicole
STLAH

[Jeff Naylor]

Thank you Jundo,

Gassho,
STLah

[GrasshopperMan17]

Thank you for this Jundo. I oftentimes get caught up in the time of the sitting, and catch myself looking at the clock every 3 minutes or so, much to my chagrin.. I'm trying to do more chair sitting so i can sit longer and give myself more of a chance to get lost in the moment and just "be" for a bit. Thank you for this reminder.

Gassho, John
ST/LAH

[JimInBC]

I remember being quite upset when a streak of over a year on my meditation timer was broken. Reason the streak was broken? I was on retreat at a monastery that didn't allow electronic devices. [morehappy]

Gassho,
Jim
Sat Today/LAH

[Getchi]

I bookmarked this thread years ago, as Jundo said - I never needed it after.

SaT Today
Lent A Hand.

Grateful for the option.

[Tobiishi]

gassho2

[Matthew]

Jundo,

This video is what I needed tonight. Sitting with euros/kiwis I felt myself struggling to stay awake after so many cycles of day shift/night shift/day shift/night shift. After maybe 15 min I logged off, but maybe today that was enough.

Gassho
Matthew
Sat today and lent a hand

[Meiun]

Thank you for this, a valuable reminder.....

Gassho

Mike

[Chikyou]

gassho2

I sat without the timer for the past two days. It does feel different, although I can't explain it.

Gassho
Sat

-Kelly

[Jundo]

gassho2

I sat without the timer for the past two days. It does feel different, although I can't explain it.

Gassho
Sat

-Kelly

Oh, you can sit with the timer, set for however many minutes with the bell to ring at start and finish ...

... but while you are sitting, just drop all sense of time, and starts and finishes.

Gassho, J

STLah

[Chikyou]

Oh, you can sit with the timer, set for however many minutes with the bell to ring at start and finish ...

... but while you are sitting, just drop all sense of time, and starts and finishes.

Gassho, J

STLah

gassho2

It is nice not to even think of the length of sitting, as others have mentioned, taking this out of the equation removes the possibility of thinking of it (however, I still have to be not-late to work when I'm sitting with no-time so I will likely continue to use a timer during the week.)

Gassho,
Sat

-Kelly

[Anchi]

Lovely !!! Thank you, Jundo.

gassho2 gassho2 gassho2

Gassho,

Anchi

[Seth David]

I once accidentally sat for 30 min instead of my usual 15 min because my timer wasn’t working properly. After a while of feeling weird and uncomfortable, I finally gave in and looked at my phone. Then I realized why my butt hurt.

Gassho [emoji120]
Seth
ST


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[Jundo]

I once accidentally sat for 30 min instead of my usual 15 min because my timer wasn’t working properly. After a while of feeling weird and uncomfortable, I finally gave in and looked at my phone. Then I realized why my butt hurt.

Gassho [emoji120]
Seth
ST


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The "Butt Clock" is very traditional in Zen! Monkey Mind vs. Monkey Butt ...

7666

Gassho, J

STLah

[Seth David]

The "Butt Clock" is very traditional in Zen! Monkey Mind vs. Monkey Butt ...

7666

Gassho, J

STLah

Interestingly, monkey butts are highly evolved for sitting, much more so than human butts. Google “ischial callosities.” But I digress [emoji85]

Gassho[emoji120]
Seth
ST


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[Jundo]

gassho2

[Jundo]

Bumping this old advice ...

gassho2

[Kaitan]

I've watched recently that when I'm in a hurry I want to stay more sitting and not care about the time. But when I have plenty of time I think more about the time of sitting. Maybe the former is an attitude of escape? The latter has a more measurement attitude.

Gasshō

stlah, Kaitan