Translations

[Nameless]

Besides zazen, music, school and drawing, I've been researching Pali lately. Felt compelled to hunt down the definitions for Pali terms myself, rather than inherently trust all these commentaries and secondhand knowledge I've been given. A lot of the terms we've been introduced to were grossly mistranslated by biased English scholars. Just doing my part to help fellow Westerners get a clear impression of things.

Started to uncover translations that resemble the "original" meanings. Usually did this by referencing several different dictionaries and breaking words down into their root, suffix and prefix. For instance, most Pali to English dictionaries will say that dukkha means suffering, but I was really looking for the elements that formed these terms. Granted, most of these are probably also "off the mark," but Zen's beyond words and letters anyway. :) Some of these really do give a clearer voice to things experienced along the way though.

Dukkha - Instability, unease, unsteadiness
Rupa (form) - Appearances
Vedana (Sensation) - Judging experiences
Sanna (Perception) - Ideas, concepts, emotions, memories, categorization (schemas)
Sankhara (Mental formations) - Representation
Vinnana (Consciousness) - Consciousness, haha
Sunyata (Emptiness) - Boundlessness, free from isolation, free from stagnancy
Prajnaparamita - Immeasurable wisdom beyond intellect and cognition
Zen, Chan, Dhyana, Jhana - Immersion

That's the load so far. Really is interesting when we think of dukkha as unsteadiness rather than suffering. Falls in line well with the First Noble Truth. Life is unsteadiness, imbalance. This road is bumpy and full of potholes. It's a rough ride if we don't have decent tires and shock absorbers :) The term representation surprised me. Directly coincided with modern psychology, which claims that we never experience anything directly. We experience representations of things.

Another fun fact, the term meditation didn't apply to Buddhist practices until long after it began being noticed by Europeans. In fact, the term Buddhism didn't exist at all until a few centuries ago. Prior to that it was just the Buddhadharma, and the various schools that practiced it. Also, boundlessness really clears up the negative connotations we Westerners have about the term emptiness. That was the phrase that actually turned me off of Zen when I first researched it back in high school. Anyway, much metta Sangha.

Gassho, John
Sat Today

[Jishin]

Very cool John. Thank you. :)

Gassho, Jishin, _/st\_

[Jundo]

Lovely. Thank you John.

Still a lot of room for interpretation and expression in those terms, and even Pali scholars will disagree. For Dukkha, and looking at what some scholars have said, I go with ...


No one English word captures the full depth and range of the Pali term, Dukkha. It is sometimes rendered as “suffering,” as in “life is suffering.” But perhaps it’s better expressed as “dissatisfaction,” “anxiety,” “disappointment,” “unease at perfection,” or “frustration” — terms that wonderfully convey a subtlety of meaning.

In a nutshell, your “self” wishes this world to be X, yet this world is not X. The mental state that may result to the “self” from this disparity is Dukkha.

http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?7720-Buddha-Basics-%28Part-I%29-%C2%97-Scooby-Dooby-Dukkha

I am not sure about some of those, such as "Zen, Chan, Dhyana, Jhana - Immersion " and especially "Sunyata (Emptiness) - Boundlessness, free from isolation, free from stagnancy" (assuming that Emptiness should or can even be defined at all) ...

... but could be, depends on the approach, and good references.

Keep going!

Gassho, Jundo

[Nameless]

Thank you Jundo. Thank you Jishin. It's been a fun little adventure so far. Yeah, I'm not sure about any of them lol. Guess regardless, the point I must remind myself of, is to not be attached to these terms or any others. Especially considering the wide range of possibilities and how language changes like everything else... seems silly to get attached to it. Funny thing with so much of this is that there usually isn't a single English word to convey this stuff. Yet, we try anyway hahaha. To save all sentient beings, though beings numberless. And to translate all terms, though terms untranslatable. :)

Gassho, John
Sat Today

[Mp]

Wonderful John, thank you for sharing. =)

Gassho
Shingen

Sat today

[Jika]

Funny thing with so much of this is that there usually isn't a single English word to convey this stuff.

Hi John,

great impressive project!
I am also a bit interested in languages (though not scientifically), and to me there are similarities between language and eating:
If you speak a language, it causes not just one, but a whole bunch of tastes and feelings in your mouth (the brain, the mind, whatever).

So, of course you can say "I do not like miso", but it is really hard to describe everything miso causes in your mouth.
Even harder to describe it in one word only.

So, for me, different languages have a different flavour on my tongue and cause differing oral sensations (that's crazy, but true - I like languages for their taste).

You, as a translator, are like someone who wants to cook the perfect identical recipe in the US, but you don't have the old Indian spices, some of which are probably prepared or named differently today.
So you ask someone who knows the original spice "What do you think I can substitute it with?"
Does it taste more like A or B, which are available here?
And the answer probably goes "Well, if it's in this sweet recipe, you can use A. But with the onions, never use A, better use B, or maybe try a mixture..."

(Forget if too crazy; written by someone with language taste buds and experience in strange cooking...)

Gassho,
Danny
#sattoday

[Nameless]

Thank you Shingen. Love the analogy Danny! I have a bit of synesthesia with sounds and colors, so I can kinda relate. I'm not gourmet chef though, more along the lines of a short order fry cook lol. Jundo is Mr. Translation. I just happen to have a knack at sorting through recipes. [morehappy]

Gassho, John
Sat Today

[Nameless]

On another unrelated yet related note, this has been the newest addition to mindfulness practice. There are all pencil sketches. And for Happy Sit I added some color with Picasa. Never thought I could draw. Guess I was just waiting for Zen. gassho1 It's so wonderful drawing with mindfulness. Bodhidharma was especially great to draw. Was like the dance of form and emptiness unfolding on the page. The Buddha is a work in progress. Gonna draw that one a few dozen times. Will keep on practicing, only been doodling for a week now. Just picked up some charcoal pencils today. Does anyone else draw or paint?

Gassho, John
Sat Today

231323142315

[Kokuu]

Hi John!

That sounds like a great thing to do. Often translations (and mistranslations!) get fixed in Buddhist language and it is good to go see for yourself. As Jundo has said, though, sometimes it is difficult to pin down a translation for a Pali (or Tibetan, Chinese or Japanese) word that has no exact equivalent in English or other non-Buddhist language.

I have seen dukkha translated as unsatisfactoriness which works for me.

Do keep us posted with what you learn. Is great you have a fascination for this!

Gassho
Kokuu
#sattoday

[Nameless]

Hi Kokuu!

Will do! A few of the translations came from the Pali to English Translation Society, but they didn't have all of them. Also, most of the time, they didn't offer the etymology which is what I was really looking for. So I have to look at a few phonetic dictionaries to piece a few of them together. Boundless was the most fascinating translation I found. Sunyata at the Pali to English site was emptiness and void like we usually see. Then I referenced a few phonemes and they showed sunya as "free, free from, boundless," and ta means a manner of being, or state. Rupa was also weird. Appearances. Whoa! Makes you ponder if all five skandhas are related to the mind. I doubt that though, because there's another key component to translation... context.


And why do you call it 'form'? Because it is afflicted,thus it is called 'form.' Afflicted with what? With cold & heat & hunger & thirst, with the touch of flies, mosquitoes, wind, sun, & reptiles. Because it is afflicted, it is called form. (afflicted is sometimes replaced with deformed)

Anywho, off to sit and then sleep.

Gassho, John
Sat Today