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Jundo
08-31-2014, 03:25 PM
NOTE: I HAVE DECIDED TO AGAIN CLOSE KOAN THREADS AFTER A FEW WEEKS LEAVING THEM OPEN. I WOULD LIKE FOR FOLKS TO BE FOCUSED ON THE SAME PASSAGES, AND NOT BE JUMPING HERE AND THERE. IF YOU HAVE AN INTEREST IN THESE KOANs, PLEASE MAKE AN EFFORT TO DROP IN AND KEEP UP! gassho1

Case 44 never ends, yet now comes ...

Case 45: The Sutra of Complete Awakening

http://books.google.co.jp/books?id=ijhXoKc95nUC&pg=PA45&lpg=PA45&dq=Case+45:+The+Sutra+of+Complete+Awakening&source=bl&ots=C_Soasp_pq&sig=_0_dKjmgzRMiP0fd-VHWwsRjktI&hl=en&sa=X&ei=ZR4DVJKgFsn-8QX2p4CoDQ&ved=0CB0Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=Case%2045%3A%20The%20Sutra%20of%20Complete%20Awa kening&f=false

As Shishin Wick notes in the commentary, today's Koan presents a prescription for Zazen ... both Zazen on the cushion, and Zazen that is all of life.

How can one be "at all times without deluded thoughts arising", yet simultaneously not bothering to extinguish deluded states of mind? How can one be free of deluded thoughts right amid and while encountering deluded thoughts? That sounds like a complete contradiction!

While dwelling in a world of delusion, do not add discriminating judgments on top ... which would be adding delusions to delusion, actually creating delusion. Rather, being free of judgments and discriminations, one becomes free of judgments and discrimination right amid a world of judgments and discriminations (free of delusion while still in a world of delusion). That sounds like an instruction to do two opposite things, like turning left and right at once!

Do not make gradations and intentionally strive, all while simultaneously living a life in which we must daily make gradations and strive! What is the trick?

I often describe this as living as if from two perspectives at once, so intimately that they are "not two" ... as if seeing the world one way with the right eye, a very different way with the left eye, both together producing Clear Vision ... judgments simultaneously without judgments, fear without fear, disappointments coupled with total satisfaction at how things are win or lose, having goals while (as if seeing life two ways at once) not having any goals ... etc. etc.

Thus, says the Preface, is tranquility achieved. Then, says the Verse, one is perfectly free in bustling places.

QUESTION: Can you describe life situations where you have become very good, through Zen Practice, at living free of delusion, discrimination, personal judgements all while living in a world of delusion, division and discrimination, with a head full of judgment ... doing both at once, seeing and living both ways at once as one?

Myosha
08-31-2014, 04:41 PM
Hello,

"QUESTION: Can you describe life situations where you have become very good . . ., seeing and living both ways at once as one?"


(gratefully) The practice of Shikantaza.


Gassho,
Myosha

Jishin
08-31-2014, 11:33 PM
QUESTION: Can you describe life situations where you have become very good, through Zen Practice, at living free of delusion, discrimination, personal judgements all while living in a world of delusion, division and discrimination, with a head full of judgment ... doing both at once, seeing and living both ways at once as one?

Get up, have caffeine while feeding dogs, exercise for a few minutes, Zazen for a few, shower and get dressed, take kids to school, go to work, come home, have dinner, relax with family, read a bit and go to sleep. Do the precepts while awake. That's it. The sky is blue. The grass is green. Clouds come and go. Not one thing missing. :)

Gassho, Jishin

Daiyo
08-31-2014, 11:54 PM
Sorry for jumping in, I'm not studying trhe Koans.
I've arrived late to Treeleaf for this thread and couldn't catch up.

But what Jishin said is a wonderful summary of many lay householders' life.

So simple yet so hard to have always in mind. Like almost everything in zen practice.

Gassho,
Walter.

Jundo
09-01-2014, 12:38 AM
Sorry for jumping in, I'm not studying trhe Koans.
I've arrived late to Treeleaf for this thread and couldn't catch up.

There is no place to jump in (how can one jump in what one is already in ... and what one is already?) [monk]

Likewise, there is no arriving late or catching up. (Yes, also a Koan). :)

Jump in, the water's fine!

Gassho, J

Daiyo
09-01-2014, 01:03 AM
Thanks Jundo.
I appreciate your consideration.

I'll try the water then.

Gassho,
Walter.

Geika
09-01-2014, 01:08 AM
At work! Customers can be a handful, all waiting to be potentially disappointed. I can usually serve with a genuine feeling of goodwill even while receiving sometimes blatant disrespect.

Gassho

Jundo
09-01-2014, 01:15 AM
At work! Customers can be a handful, all waiting to be potentially disappointed. I can usually serve with a genuine feeling of goodwill even while receiving sometimes blatant disrespect.

Gassho

Yes, yes ... just this life. Sometimes disappointing and sometimes not. Sometimes we get respect and sometimes we get the back of the hand.

Also know the Customer that is the Whole Universe, filled with nothing but Respect, Goodwill and Never Disappointed! Buddha fills the Hand and Overflows! gassho2

Gassho, J

Geika
09-01-2014, 01:18 AM
gassho1

Jika
09-01-2014, 07:35 AM
QUESTION: Can you describe life situations where you have ... through Zen Practice, at living free of delusion, discrimination, personal judgements all while living in a world of delusion, division and discrimination, with a head full of judgment ... doing both at once, seeing and living both ways at once as one?

Not good, no. Starting to grow a second eye ;)

Sitting with a sad friend.
One eye: How terrible, I really should do more, I suck at this...
Second eye: sadness being, holding hands, all is good

Fighting an episode of disease.
One eye: Don't want! Not now, fear, rotten bodily feeling.
Second eye: Being this body-mind, win or lose.

Gassho,
Danny

Kantai
09-01-2014, 10:32 PM
QUESTION: Can you describe life situations where you have become very good, through Zen Practice, at living free of delusion, discrimination, personal judgements all while living in a world of delusion, division and discrimination, with a head full of judgment ... doing both at once, seeing and living both ways at once as one?

When I'm making music, playing drums, I'm free to do whatever I want, play whatever rythm or sound that I feel like.
Yet, while being free to do that, I can not just play whatever I feel like all the time. I have to listen to what the others in the band play and what the audience like to hear.

I have to make judgements about whats appropriate to play in any given moment and circumstance. Even a small change can make a big difference in how the music is going to sound. But if the drummer gets stiff, afraid of ruining the music if she takes some daring leaps and experiment with the music, it can begin to sound boring.

But one has to know when to do what and at the same time relax and be dynamic and flexible, open to the music and what comes in ones way.
When given a sheet of music with notes saying what you should play, you're not supposed to play what's on it. You are making the score, putting the notes on the sheet while playing it.

Gassho
Kantai

Jundo
09-02-2014, 02:38 AM
When I'm making music, playing drums, I'm free to do whatever I want, play whatever rythm or sound that I feel like.
Yet, while being free to do that, I can not just play whatever I feel like all the time. I have to listen to what the others in the band play and what the audience like to hear.

I have to make judgements about whats appropriate to play in any given moment and circumstance. Even a small change can make a big difference in how the music is going to sound. But if the drummer gets stiff, afraid of ruining the music if she takes some daring leaps and experiment with the music, it can begin to sound boring.

But one has to know when to do what and at the same time relax and be dynamic and flexible, open to the music and what comes in ones way.
When given a sheet of music with notes saying what you should play, you're not supposed to play what's on it. You are making the score, putting the notes on the sheet while playing it.

Gassho
Kantai

Do you know the sound of the One Drum that Cannot be Hit?

A couple of versions of Case 44 from the Blue Cliff Record ...



Hekiganroku - Case 44: Kasan's "Beat the Drum"

Kasan, giving instruction, said,

"Practicing and learning -- it is called 'hearing' (mon);

completing learning -- it is called 'being next to the fact' (rin).

When you have passed through these two, it is called 'true passing'

(shinka). "

A monk stepped forward and asked,

"What is the 'true passing'?"

Kasan said,

"Beat the drum."

He asked again,

"What is the true Reality?"

Kasan said,

"Beat the drum."

He asked again,

"I do not ask about the sentence, 'Mind itself is Buddha.'

But What does 'Neither Mind nor Buddha' mean?"

Kasan said,

"Beat the drum."

He asked once more,

"When someone who knows the ultimate Truth comes, how should we receive him?"

Kasan said,

"Beat the drum!"



Kasan instructed saying, "To study is called 'hearing.' To complete study is called
'neighboring.' That which transcends these two is 'true passing.'" A monk stepped forth
and asked, "What is 'true passing?'" Kasan said, "Knowing how to beat the drum." The
monk asked again, "What is the true reality?" Kasan said, "Knowing how to beat the drum."
The monk asked again, "I do not ask about 'Just mind, just Buddha'; what is "not mind, not
Buddha?' Kasan said, "Knowing how to beat the drum." The monk asked again, "When a
perfectly enlightened person comes, how should I treat him?" Kasan said, "Knowing how
to beat the drum."

A Talk by Katagiri Roshi on this Koan ...

http://podbay.fm/show/368687571/e/419648461?autostart=1

Gassho, J

RichardH
09-02-2014, 01:06 PM
QUESTION: Can you describe life situations where you have become very good, through Zen Practice, at living free of delusion, discrimination, personal judgements all while living in a world of delusion, division and discrimination, with a head full of judgment ... doing both at once, seeing and living both ways at once as one?

The whole mess rolls along. Except I'm not very good at it....and the whole mess including that rolls along just the same. There is a ground though.. a simple non-mess ground that is always ok..

This past weekend we (partner, son, and I) spent time up at a cabin by a lake. My son, Will, really opened up about feeling like life is passing him by because he could not be fully present with the lake and sky. He was struggling. He just needed a little help...so I just said "that too" .. meaning the whole struggle, the whole "not being fully present" too, is ok. That settled him down, and his breathing changed gear automatically. We just sat there..until he needed to get up and jump around for a while. Then he sat again for a few minutes. There was no pressure, no compulsion, and he was so relieved to hear that he is ok. He wants to practice.

Gassho
Daizan

Ed
09-02-2014, 02:03 PM
Not growing another head on top of my head.
Supervisor sees a good funny man.
If she only knew!
Law library, full of lawyers wannabees, Ed is here, always the same: funnyman, sweet, present; ready to help, encourage.
If they only knew.
Tell a lie to get Friday off. Tell another to keep cash in the bank. Nescessary.
All harmful karma eve committed by me....change the water on the altar
A balanced life mine. Sort of.
Being on the ground of being.

Gate Gate Paragate Parasamgate
BOHI SVAHA!!!!

Myoku
09-02-2014, 02:24 PM
Thank you Jundo,
and everyone contributing. For me this actually happening many times each day, unfortunately usually it sums up to 1% of the daytime. Its all the small things, in example when my wife is for a day at home, not at work, like today and she makes some lunch for us. This is nice, no questions, I appreciate it, but usually she is ate, so whenever we tried to have lunch it takes 15...20 minutes longer, until we can. Sounds like a small thing, but let come up some angry thought like "why so late, again!". Sometimes I get caught by that, usually not, but usually I then judge myself, "why such negative thought, she just does something for you". Today however, no 2 was missing, no1 was there, but I smiled at it, at my wife and all was good.
Gassho
Myoku

jeff_u
09-02-2014, 08:35 PM
Learning to keep my Zazen oven steadily burning even as the logs keep stacking up. There is no prize for burning the most logs. Dishes washed today will need to be washed tomorrow. Dropping "done" and "good job", picking up the next dish with a smile.


Gassho,
Jeff

Kantai
09-02-2014, 09:04 PM
Thank you Jundo, gassho2

Gassho
Kantai

Risho
09-05-2014, 02:05 AM
QUESTION: Can you describe life situations where you have become very good, through Zen Practice, at living free of delusion, discrimination, personal judgements all while living in a world of delusion, division and discrimination, with a head full of judgment ... doing both at once, seeing and living both ways at once as one?

I have noticed that practice has helped me quite a bit with work. In my line of work, there is troubleshooting... errors happen, sometimes they blindside me. But if I drop the feeling of how it should be and focus on what is, I can better focus on the problem. I'm also much better at admitting when I don't know something. But that is not an excuse to not act. Life is all about not knowing but acting anyway.

This koan really resonated with me, especially the line, "Don't be disturbed." Anger appears, fear, wants, dislikes, etc. Of course, it's human. But it doesn't have to disturb us. I think this practice is about diligence and effort. A life truly lived to the fullest is based on diligence and effort. If we do our best, with whatever we are handed, then we won't be disturbed. If we wish things were different and retreat and fail to try, then we are disturbed.... we are disrupted, we are owned by our emotions, we are thrown off balance.

But if in the midst of crazy, we can act spontaneously with the best intention, with the intention of helping others, putting others first, empathizing, caring about what happens, not worried about how bad we look because we don't know or don't have all the answers, that's not being Disturbed, even though things appear disturbing.

But things are out of our control... we really can't control "things" but we can control how we react. Do we flail about blaming others, blaming ourselves, belittling ourselves and putting others on pedestals or enlarging our egos and tearing others down? That's disturbing.

I told myself I wouldn't write about this, but tomorrow we have to euthanize our oldest dog. She is 14.5 years old, and a larger breed. It's our first dog together; we got her while we were still dating. Her name is Sakura; unfortunately I wasn't creative enough to come up with that name, but she is beautiful. She is the sweetest dog that's ever been in my family. She went blind a few years ago, then deaf. Now she has advanced arthritis and needs help most times getting up. She sleeps most of the time, and can't control her bowels.

In my mind, it's been a torrent of guilt of even thinking of euthanasia, but when I think of how things are and put aside my disturbing bullshit, I know what's best for her. Her well being has to come before my petty and selfish desires about things, and I know this is the right choice. It's very difficult, but it is the best thing, the most diligent and responsible and compassionate thing in these crazy circumstances. That is the only way to not be disturbed I feel.

I feel that this practice is all about not being disturbed and living a meaningful life full of compassion and letting go of our small ways to expand ourselves...to see that we are all truly in this together. It's a beautiful, beautiful practice.

Gassho,

Risho

Jundo
09-05-2014, 03:12 AM
I told myself I wouldn't write about this, but tomorrow we have to euthanize our oldest dog. She is 14.5 years old, and a larger breed. It's our first dog together; we got her while we were still dating. Her name is Sakura; unfortunately I wasn't creative enough to come up with that name, but she is beautiful. She is the sweetest dog that's ever been in my family. She went blind a few years ago, then deaf. Now she has advanced arthritis and needs help most times getting up. She sleeps most of the time, and can't control her bowels.

I met this dog, saw how you took care of her in her old age with such love. Yes, the proof that you and your wife and this dog ... all are Buddha Nature!

I will dedicate our Zazenkai tomorrow to her. You are acting with all love and Compassion.

Gassho, J

Risho
09-05-2014, 02:58 PM
Thank you

Daitetsu
09-19-2014, 04:22 PM
Hi Risho,

I will be sitting for you and Sakura today.
gassho2

Gassho,

Daitetsu

Risho
09-19-2014, 05:01 PM
Thank you. gassho2

AlanLa
09-22-2014, 01:27 AM
My condolences for your dog, Risho. I've been there and it's hard.

As for the koan question.... Thanks to Jundo, Taigu, and Treeleaf, my practice has pervaded my life to the point that it pervades all the actions of my life, even my stumbles off the Path. From little things like waiting in line at Walmart to bigger things like my whole philosophy of life and motivations for what I am doing with my life, all of it has been affected by my years of practice. I may still be a mess, but I am not the mess I used to be thanks to practice. However, I hesitate to say I am very good at any of it, more like somewhere on the road to getting close to good with a view of very good somewhere off in the distance. I am content being on the road to betterment as I drop ideas of betterment, which is exactly what helps me be better.

Jundo
09-22-2014, 02:12 AM
... I hesitate to say I am very good at any of it, more like somewhere on the road to getting close to good with a view of very good somewhere off in the distance. I am content being on the road to betterment as I drop ideas of betterment, which is exactly what helps me be better.

gassho2gassho2gassho2 Lovely!

On the road to being better and making the world better ... on the road to, somewhere down the line if not lives from now, being Buddha in fact ...

... all as right here is Buddha and right here is Buddha and, next, right here is Buddha Buddha Buddha all along.

Thus, ALL is Better! What could be ("Big "B") Better!? ... Even as we never give hope working and hoping to make things better (cause sure is a lot about us and this world to fix!!).

Lovely! (Ya couldn't have said this better!) :p

Gassho, J

Kaishin
09-22-2014, 07:59 PM
I put myself in uncomfortable situations more often now, as I'm aware of the negative, mental noise that kept me from doing new things in the past. Noise is still there, but quieter, like Muzak.

Risho, sorry about Sakura. That is pretty old for a large breed! We recently adopted a rescue mutt and I can already tell it will be brutal when the time comes to let him go. May you and yours be at peace.
Gassho,
Kaishin

Shinzan
09-26-2014, 05:13 PM
Risho, how tender your time with Sakura. (hand to heart)

Back to the koan,......wait, the koan is Risho's heartbreak and my heart touched. This too.
Shinzan

Shingen
09-26-2014, 08:04 PM
Risho,

I am so sorry to hear about Sakura ... I know the bond oh too well that we create with our beautiful four legged friends. I will sit for you both.

Gassho
Shingen

Joyo
09-27-2014, 02:02 AM
Risho, I feel as if I am right there with you. I had to put down my beloved dog this summer. On July 23 I watched him take his last breath. Rudy, my cockapoo, spent 12 years with me. I still grieve for him each day. It is a difficult thing, grief. Somehow, in the process, I've found beauty. I hope you do too.

Gassho,
Joyo

Risho
09-30-2014, 01:01 AM
Joyo that is so, so hard.

Everyone, thank you all for your kind words. Today we picked up Sakura's urn with her ashes. I put it next to our other dog's (Lexy) urn, which happens to be right by my Buddha statue. All 3 Buddhas together :) There is a space in the urn where we are going to put a family picture we had taken with her and our other dog Scout, last year. I will post the pic soon.

I'm sorry; I didn't mean to monopolize this thread with my drama. I really love you all. This sangha is my family too, and you support me in countless ways. Your support is tremendously endearing to me.

Gassho,

Risho

Shingen
09-30-2014, 03:39 AM
I put it next to our other dog's (Lexy) urn, which happens to be right by my Buddha statue. All 3 Buddhas together :)

Hello Risho,

This is a wonderful expression and I have done the same with my long time friend of 18 years, Mr. Charlie. They truly are Buddhisattva's! =)

Deep bows
Shingen