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Taigu
02-25-2013, 12:35 AM
like a silver bowl filled with snow
like a heron hidden in the moonlight

Tozan Ryokai, Jewel Mirror Samadhi

On a quiet evening in my tatch roofed hut,
alone I play the lute with no string.
Its meloddy enters wind and cloud,
mingles deeply with a flowing stream,
fills out the dark valley, blows through the vast forest, then disappears.
Other than those who hear emptiness,
who will capture this rare sound?

Ryokan ( Sky Above, Great Wind, Kazuaki Tanahashi)

Nagarjuna appeared on his seat and taught the verse:

This body manifests a full moon
expressing the bodies of all Buddhas,
teaching that has no particular shape,
expressing that revealing is neither sound nor form.

Dogen, Shobogenzo, Buddha nature (Kazuaki Tanahashi)


Kyozan points to a snow lion and says: "can anyone go beyond this color?" Ummon says:"right then, I'd push it down for him" and Seccho later adds " he only knows how to push it down, not how to raise it up."

in the Appreciatory Verse it is written: (...) Though pure light illumines the eye, it is like being lost from home. Though clarity turns the body, it falls into a rank. We Zen students have nothing to rely on! (...)


As many people have pointed out, we are full of ideas, stuffed with opinions and views. That's what the human world claims from us, that's what we think we should offer people. The way out is to go beyond, leap out of this bag of skin and flesh, merely a bag of smelly thoughts, leap into what is not known and what we cannot even rely on. The original color, the original and primary sound, stringless lute of Ryokan, merging of form and emptiness of Tozan, cannot be bottled or processed.Here and now, what is our true form? Here and now, how do we give it a go, a chance to bloom? What is the meaning of "to go beyond"? As a very young Zen sitter, I used to think of something really great, like the action of a superheroe getting somewhere after an incredible flight, I used to imagine a beyond, manufacture a beyond in which I could eventually land. As I grew smaller and dropped ideas of making and doing, the beyond felt just as close as my nostrils. The beyond was nothing but this here and now without the extra, the bagage, the stories, the garbage, the plots, the "I wish I could", without was the way where everything could be with me.

Not even being attached here to this. Not to dwell anywhere is key. Could be another trap, and we would then go dead circle.

How would you go beyond? How would you not dwell? How do you put up with this mad path that asks you to give up everything in exchange of a big heap of nothing you don't even look as being your own? How do you enjoy being fooled again and again and loosing so much?

gassho


Taigu

Shokai
02-25-2013, 12:04 PM
How do you enjoy being fooled again and again and loosing so much?

Because it is what it is (as it is.) IT includes so much good that, once you realize, one doesn't have time to wallow in the mud. [monk]

Thank you Taigu, How's the mending coming along?

Gassho, Shokai gassho2

Taigu
02-25-2013, 03:08 PM
The mending is fine,thank you Shokai, and thank you for your post.



gassho in the mud

T.

Shingen
02-25-2013, 04:01 PM
Thank you Taigu ... and glad to hear you are on the mend. :)

Gassho
Shingen

Heisoku
02-25-2013, 04:58 PM
Each moment comes and goes and in each new moment I am born into that moment, again to only to pass away and die to it. In each moment the sun shines and I smile in the sunshine. The sunshine and smiling are not two. But the smiling is never the same. What will happen in the next moment, what or who is around the next corner? I do not know nor do I need to care, as the sun is shining and I have learned to smile.

Shujin
02-26-2013, 02:01 AM
I am greatly appreciative for the passage about superheroes. Before I began sitting, I used to think that I didn't believe in dramatic concepts like this. As thoughts have unfolded, however, I realize that there has been this desire for a heroic narrative for longer than I can remember. I've wanted so badly to quantify certain aspects of my life - struggle! sacrifice! virtue! It looks like an especially awful Communist propaganda poster.

Playing with my sons today, I experienced one of those rare (for me) moments where I felt whole-heartedly engaged. It will pass, of course, and I will let it go. But being able to experience something special, something amazingly immediate and genuine, is what enables me to contend with the planner, the super hero and the fool.

Gassho,
Shujin

Myoku
02-26-2013, 06:47 PM
Taigu,
I know not much about "going beyond", really. But ...


How do you enjoy being fooled again and again and loosing so much?

Its a habit, and it feels like it felt yesterday and not too bad. Again and again the mind produces ideas which to follow seem to be "right", seem to be easy, seem to be freedom ... doing what you want ... great ... No ? No ! I'm so lazy. And only vaguely guess what I loose. So just another go, knowing I'm only on a merry-go-round, but hey, everybody else is too. But it not feels _really_ right, thats why I'm here.

Your questions and the explanation of Shishin Wick are great, thank you
Gassho
Myoku

Gen01
02-26-2013, 11:59 PM
Thank you Taigu.

Apple eats the worm.

Gassho. _/|\_

Shugen
02-27-2013, 01:45 AM
How would you go beyond? How would you not dwell? How do you put up with this mad path that asks you to give up everything in exchange of a big heap of nothing you don't even look as being your own? How do you enjoy being fooled again and again and loosing so much?


You just do. Sometimes the losing brings tears, sometimes laughter - always it brings something.




Shugen

andyZ
02-27-2013, 12:21 PM
How do you enjoy being fooled again and again and loosing so much?

gassho

Taigu

Thank you Taigu.

Painted rice cakes, as Dogen called them. Sometimes they satisfy hunger, sometimes they don't but knowing the limitations of the painted rice cakes always brings a huge relief and lets me just breathe with no agenda whatsoever.

Ed
02-27-2013, 02:16 PM
"A true man of no rank." Eyes hear, fingers see.
In gassho,
Thanks.

RichardH
02-28-2013, 01:32 PM
No point swinging my arms around looking for nothing to hold, or leaving them limp and stupid. I'll just put these hands where hands can hold ...where there are handles. The snow piled up overnight and I can't wait for spring for it to melt. Got to shovel to get the car out this morning. Fix the leaky roof. Wipe after going to the toilet.

Not a single thing is lost. not a single thing is given up. There is only ordinary gain and loss..and absolutely nothing else... ever

Just blabbing.. Gassho,Daizan

Taigu
02-28-2013, 01:37 PM
a kind of answer to you all and thank you so much for your patience and wisdom:

http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?8692-Baike-5

gassho


T.

Shingen
02-28-2013, 02:49 PM
a kind of answer to you all and thank you so much for your patience and wisdom:

http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?8692-Baike-5

gassho


T.

I am refresh ... thank you Taigu. :)

Gassho
Shingen

AlanLa
02-28-2013, 03:10 PM
The longer I am on this path the more I lose, the more I realize how I am being fooled, the less "self" I have to dwell in, and the closer I get to white on white, though I am still so very far, and all of that is ok. It's like peeling the onion. At first there may be tears, but it tastes so good once cooked and served with life.

Jishin
03-01-2013, 11:48 AM
How would you go beyond? How would you not dwell? How do you put up with this mad path that asks you to give up everything in exchange of a big heap of nothing you don't even look as being your own? How do you enjoy being fooled again and again and loosing so much?

“we only see or grasp as far as the power of our eye of study and practice can see.” - Dogen

Gassho,

John

Ed
03-01-2013, 01:20 PM
How would you go beyond? How would you not dwell? How do you put up with this mad path that asks you to give up everything in exchange of a big heap of nothing you don't even look as being your own? How do you enjoy being fooled again and again and loosing so much?

Take refuge in the Buddha
take refuge in the Dharma
take refuge in the Sangha

That is to say, practice steadily with no expectations no goals. Just do it with constancy.
In gassho.

Myozan Kodo
03-01-2013, 02:21 PM
I was there for the momentous event
Of the rose petal falling. I witnessed with amazement
The shower that came from nowhere. I alone saw
The wave break, having traversed the broad Atlantic.
Here and here and here stands the culmination of all things.
It is always present, not a hair's breath away,
Self-evident to the true man of no rank.
It is neither under your nose nor within your field of vision,
It is your nose itself, your true eye looking.
There is no hand that grasps itself, struggle though it may.
There is no mirror to see ourselves, from each and every way.
This mountain holds innumerable mysteries,
And it's lake reflection, swaying with a landing swan,
Stands never still. There is no stepping out of things.

Risho
03-02-2013, 12:13 AM
I don't want to sound like a self-help book... but I feel it's like instead of ignoring or trying to push away what's going on, or trying to grasp for something we want, we just sort of live now. Whatever happens one should act accordingly... adapting as necessary, without the grasping or reviling. There is no canned answer, as it constantly changes. The one moment I think I have it, I've already lost it.. time to just be with.. to just be.

Glad to hear you are getting better Taigu!

Gassho,

Risho

Edit: I felt silly typing that like some robot. I fail the vows all the time. I forget about my vow to save all sentient beings when things don't go my way. Every day I lose my temper or get afraid for things I want or don't want. I see that behavior. So that is the practice, and that's what keeps me coming back. I don't think that can ever be mastered...life can ever be mastered. I think the interesting part about this practice is that no matter how hard things can seem, and I make them harder than they usually are by my likes/dislikes, it's all about just showing up every day and not backing down.

AlanLa
03-02-2013, 02:31 AM
I like the push it down/push it up interplay in this koan. It's like the two sides on the no-sided zen coin. Push it down and the snow lion recedes into emptiness. But there really is a lion there, so you better push it up, too, or else he will eat you!

Heisoku
03-02-2013, 07:00 PM
I would like to signpost a wonderful set of postings by Jordan on G+. He is linking to a series of translations by Mike Cross on Mining Asvaghosa's Gold. The latest one is titled 'Towards the Ending What Ought to be Ended'. It is a wonderful teaching about ending those influences that pollute the mind or faults that cause suffering, including the idea that thoughts should be ended in zazen. Pushing beyond.

Rich
03-03-2013, 08:37 PM
Practicing in a relaxed manner allows sustainability. Dogen mentions the joy and ease of just sitting. Whether dwelling or not dwelling practice continues.

Taking myself too seriously (dwelling) created a problem.

MyoHo
03-04-2013, 08:34 AM
Where does the moonlight end and the heron begin? Where does the bowl end and the snow begin?
Without the one, there is not the other. We cannot deny they are there, but if we acnolege them, we fall into duality.

Aaaaaaarrrggggggg! Being a Zen student can drive one *&^&* mad, lol

See? now agrivation begins, dualism and suffering begins.

Let's go sit shikantaza and then and be the heron in the moonlight and the silver bowl filled with snow. Because there is nothing more to it. Butifull no?

E.

Daitetsu
03-06-2013, 12:53 AM
How would you go beyond? How would you not dwell? How do you put up with this mad path that asks you to give up everything in exchange of a big heap of nothing you don't even look as being your own? How do you enjoy being fooled again and again and loosing so much?


I cannot lose what I've never had.

Gassho,

Timo

Kokuu
03-10-2013, 10:38 AM
Words from the Tibetan Shangpa tradition:

So close you can't see it.
So deep you can't fathom it.
So simple you can't believe it.
So good you can't accept it.

Always seeking to go beyond, how long will I continue to split heaven and earth?

Andy

Oheso
03-12-2013, 01:04 PM
(in our tradition we say that) Winter does not become Spring, as every Now has its own Past and Future, yet, pushing beyond sequiturs, each April breeds its lilacs and March rains produce umbrella sellers on the sidewalks of New York.

At just the point where the circumference is closed, the circle yawns.

santosh
03-19-2013, 09:41 AM
Life has made such a mockery of plans. Got to drop the unnecessary cribbing, cynicism.
They'll just cloud over knowing that the adjusted plan is not far from hand.
Some times you might want to break out of your own plans too. Who knows what I am doing?

Gassho,
Santosh.

MyoHo
03-19-2013, 10:38 AM
So, what are you palnning to do?

Gassho

Enkyo

Kaishin
03-20-2013, 01:27 AM
I'm okay being fooled; I don't feel foolish. I don't even realize what I don't realize. A lot to be sure. But I can ride a bicycle.
Gassho, Kaishin

Shogen
03-21-2013, 03:12 AM
"How would you go beyond? How would you not dwell? How do you put up with this mad path that asks you to give up everything in exchange of a big heap of nothing you don't even look as being your own? How do you enjoy being fooled again and again and loosing so much?" .... Taigu

"Allowing." Without expectation who can be fooled? Gassho, Shogen