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View Full Version : SIT-A-LONG with Jundo: The BEST Zen is SO DISAPPOINTING!



Jundo
01-19-2013, 04:41 AM
http://www.donapepaonline.com/media/images/noticias/not_397.jpg THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT ZEN TALK YOU WILL EVER HEAR, though pretty mediocre and quite forgettable. It will save Zen Students endless tail chasing and dead-ends, disappointments and wasted days ... by pointing out that tail chasing is arriving, wasted days are timeless. It will allow every Sitting to be Magnificent ... both the Sittings which are magnificent and those which are anything but. One will never be let down by one's Zen's Practice again ... nor by one's life, family and friends, nor this whole world ... both when fulfilling your every dream and when falling far short of expectations.

In an old Koan from the Book of Serenity (Ganto's Bow and Shout) a Zen student of too little experience but too much self conceit (as is true of so many modern Zen Students) shows up at the doorway of a Sangha. He demands, full of opinions, "Is this place sacred or just common? Is it what I think I want from the Zen I picture? Is it 'real Zen' or just fake Zen, and are the Teachers enlightened as I want 'enlightened' to look and seem?"

The Teacher in the Koan then demonstrates Dharma with a KATZU! Shout ... perhaps a GREAT Wordless Teaching or perhaps just a hackneyed cliche clunker. The student, moved, may decide to stay. Or, judgmental and dreaming, filled with golden expectations, the same Zen Student may feel disappointed with the Teachings offered (compared to how he thinks they "should" sound ... even if he is not quite sure how that is.). He leaves ... either right away or after some time ... thinking "there is no True Dharma here." He may judge based on having read too many Zen story books, where all the characters of the past have been cleaned up and dipped in gold (Although please read some of the old books such as the Vinaya, and you will find what a frustrating mess, with folks bumping noses, was Sangha even in the Buddha's day [scared]). In either case, the foolish student fails to hear the TRUE SHOUT! ... the Great Wordless Teaching found both in the inspiring moment and the hack and cliche'd klunk.

The student fails to realize that the Best Zen Sangha may be that which is sometimes inspiring and sometimes discouraging, and the Best Buddhist Teachers and Friends those who are frequently uplifting and sometimes frustrating and mostly in between ... the ones who sometimes meet your ideals, but sometimes don't.

For what the Zen Student must find is Such which is Common-Holy, Specially Unspecial, fulfilling all desires ... both with what is wanted and what is not. The student most find freedom from the small human self ... filled with aversions and attractions, dreams and feelings of incompleteness and lack (the "I" in "I'm disappointed"). Can one know the Real that sweeps in and sweeps through 'real' or 'fake'? Can the Great Teaching be heard that shouts at the Unbreakable Heart of both the sparkling talks or thrilling moments and the dull or dumb, the Timeless both in the 'time well spent' and so-called 'waste of time'? Can one experience the Wholly Holy Whole, which fills all the high mountains climbed and barren holes one falls in. Can one find that True Way from which there is no way to "go away"? Even the frauds and fake Teachers, even the Teachers with weaknesses and failings, even the the greatest abusers and predators are Teaching to those with a Buddha's Eye to see.

Is this a clarion call to complacency and mediocrity, acceptance of the ugly without attempt at repair? FAR FROM IT! Yet there are two kinds of Sangha or Teacher that, I feel, do a disservice to students. One is a place or person that is too lax, too careless, which fails to provide beneficial opportunities for Practice, or (in some fortunately very VERY few cases) where real abuse and other bad acts occur. But, counter-intuitive as it may seem, a Sangha or Teacher which meets all the student's expectations, golden dreams, ideals and desires too would be a disservice (not to mention unlikely to ever truly appear, at least for the long haul when the rose colored honeymoon is done. It would be as misleading as the world of 'Gods' in the Six Realms, where all is given that is desired). Why? Because as with all of this life, all this world, one must come to see through personal judgments of both "sacred" and "ordinary", good and bad, flashy or dull, entertaining or painful, satisfying and disatisfying, true vs. fake ... thus to find a Truth beyond selfish expectations, disappointments, dreams, ideals and failings to meet a mark, thus to find the Mark Always Met. The best Teacher or Community, as strange as it sounds, may be one that ... like the universe ... sometimes inspires and sometimes frustrates, sometimes energizes and sometimes bores, sometimes astounds and sometimes leaves cold ... all so that one might find Astounding Energetic Inspiration even right at the heart of the frustratingly dull or unbearably cold.

This is not a call for complacency, resignation or merely "putting up with" ... but a call to PIERCE RIGHT THROUGH!

Our Treeleaf Sangha is a wonderfully imperfect place, often beautiful and often filled with small frictions. Our Teachers here are well-meaning but mediocre clods and fools. Yet This Place, This Dharma, This Buddha, sits beyond all human weighing and rating.

Here is a talk by me, the Best Zen Talk You Will Ever Hear, yet just middling and unspecial. Is it worth the time? Is it a waste of time?

........................... 'Tis Timeless whether worth or waste.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkcqAe86FL4

Seimyo
01-19-2013, 04:58 AM
Thank you Jundo.

Gassho.
Seimyo

Kiki
01-19-2013, 05:41 AM
gassho1 Thank you Jundo.


Gassho
Kia

Shingen
01-19-2013, 06:05 AM
Thank you Jundo ... I was beautifully disappointed. :)

Gassho
Shingen

ScottM
01-19-2013, 07:42 AM
That was a piece of pure garbage that is smelly, ugly, and rotten to the core.

Best talk ever.

Gassho,
Dosho

santosh
01-19-2013, 09:14 AM
Thank you Jundo!

Gassho,
Santosh.

Myozan Kodo
01-19-2013, 10:13 AM
Nail hit on head. Bang!
Thanks Jundo.
Gassho
Myozan

Heisoku
01-19-2013, 10:38 AM
Thank you Jundo.
Gassho [happy]

RichardH
01-19-2013, 02:17 PM
Gassho, Daizan

Shohei
01-19-2013, 03:23 PM
perfect!
Also nice to hear that little voice and thumping feet too :D

Gassho
Shohei

Jakudo
01-19-2013, 03:47 PM
An important teaching, Thank you Jundo.
Gassho, Jakudo.

Koshin
01-19-2013, 03:53 PM
[indifferent] Yeah what a good talk [indifferent]

[happy]

Gassho

Yugen
01-19-2013, 05:18 PM
I'm just so very bummed out.... all this time spent staring at wall .... for nothing! My bubble has been burst! [claps]

Thank you Jundo! Thank you all for being here! The concept of good friends in practice, and a teacher as a spiritual friend... is a critical one. I started with many misconceptions..... am still working with them...

Deep bows
Yugen

Kyotai
01-19-2013, 05:26 PM
Thank you

Gassho

Shawn

Jiken
01-19-2013, 05:28 PM
Sun face Buddha. Moon face Buddha.

Katzu and Gassho

Daido

Genshin
01-20-2013, 06:17 PM
Thank you Jundo.

Gassho,
Matt

Shokai
01-21-2013, 12:29 PM
gassho1 Thank you Jundo.

gassho, Shokai

YuimaSLC
01-22-2013, 12:24 AM
Monju Bosatsu holds a sword in the right hand.....to cut through the ordinary and the sublime.
And the cushion bows when I bow.


Gassho

Richard

andyZ
01-22-2013, 12:47 PM
If I wasn't disappointed in one way or another I would never stumble on this practice, this Sangha and this talk. Disappointment is what got me here :)

Ed
01-22-2013, 01:39 PM
Ha! You hit the barn then painted a bull"s eye around the arrow!
Wise!
Gassho.

Jeff
01-22-2013, 03:17 PM
Thanks, Jundo! Gassho, jeff

Kyonin
01-22-2013, 03:56 PM
Thank you, Jundo.

Gassho,

Kyonin

jayjay
01-23-2013, 08:43 AM
Jundo

The most worthwhile waste of time - Thank you

Gassho

jayjay

Nengyo
01-23-2013, 12:09 PM
Thank you Jundo. Another important life lesson/teaching/waste of time

Ed
01-23-2013, 01:23 PM
"Life is disappointing" Why is that the hardest lesson to remember?

Matt
01-23-2013, 01:53 PM
Thank you for this. Very helpful. Gassho, Matt

Marla567
01-23-2013, 08:32 PM
Thank you Jundo.
Perhaps there is no way or need to avoid disappointments. Even if it is not a pleasant emotion....

Gassho
Bianca / Shinka

Myoshin
01-24-2013, 02:02 PM
Great Jundo.

It has a similar taste with Taigu Video "no expectation", this idea of non jugement, something like that.I fell it like this

Gassho

Ed
01-24-2013, 04:05 PM
The Precepts mark the path. Disappointments will surely come; having a practice and keeping precepts blances the inmpact, at seeing dukha coming you reset to breath, regret is minimized, then it happens again.
The Preceps let you see regrets have no solidity, no need to add "a head over the head."

Risho
01-27-2013, 07:26 PM
Thank you Jundo. I have a hard time with disappointment which is what lead me to this practice. I want what I want so much, that anything else really hurts in a way; sometimes it can be crippling. I want success in my work for example and when something doesn't function as expected it just drives me nuts. It discourages me, I sometimes ask why am I doing this. Sometimes I wish that I didn't have the disappointment, but that is just running. Sitting really helps me face this and sometimes taste that freedom beyond satisfaction and disappointment in just allowing it to be. Facing it, being with it, is the only way I've found to be able to not cling to that so much. It is such a hard lesson that I am reminded of time and time again.

Another thing I think about is the vow to save all beings. Surely, I'm not the only one who feels this disappointment, and if I can sit through it and face it instead of grasping at distractions or running away that is a way to save all sentient beings. That is a way to teach others by showing a way out of suffering, not by grasping or trying to ignore it. I really feel that you and Taigu do that wholeheartedly and really give me something to feel inspired about when I feel that disappointment. That is truly a great gift.

Gassho,

Risho

Jundo
01-28-2013, 02:07 AM
Hi Risho,

Here is a tumbnail definition of "Dukkha", the disease (or better, "dis-ease") for which Buddha offered a treatment and cure.

----------------

So, what’s “Dukkha”? …and what does Dukkha do?

No one English word captures the full depth and range of the Pali term, Dukkha. It is sometimes rendered as “suffering,” as in “life is suffering.” But perhaps it’s better expressed as “dissatisfaction,” “anxiety,” “disappointment,” “unease at perfection,” or “frustration” — terms that wonderfully convey a subtlety of meaning.

In a nutshell, your “self” wishes this world to be X, yet this world is not X. The mental state that may result to the “self” from this disparity is Dukkha.
.
Shakyamuni Buddha gave many examples: sickness (when we do not wish to be sick), old age (when we long for youth), death (if we cling to life), loss of a loved one (as we cannot let go), violated expectations, the failure of happy moments to last (though we wish them to last). Even joyous moments — such as happiness and good news, treasure or pleasant times — can be a source of suffering if we cling to them, if we are attached to those things.

http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?7720-Buddha-Basics-%28Part-I%29-%C2%97-Scooby-Dooby-Dukkha

Myoshin
01-28-2013, 03:44 PM
Hello,

It reminds me when Dogen said that we feel alone only because of the illusion of a self, when we see that we are the 5 agregats and have no self, dukka vanishes. Something like that, I read it in in "Zen mind, beginner mind".

Gassho

Shugen
01-29-2013, 02:40 AM
Thank you.


Shugen

Gen01
02-27-2013, 11:36 AM
Thank you very much!! [claps]

Gassho.

Gene

Dainin
03-06-2013, 01:37 AM
Thank you for pointing me here, Jundo. As you know, ... well, you know...

Gassho,
Dainin

Myosha
04-24-2013, 02:47 AM
NOT disappointing!?! Well. . .THAT would be disappointing.^^

Gassho,
Edward

Marcelo de Valnisio
09-05-2013, 05:10 PM
Sometimes I want to see a big golden buddha flying through the clouds...so, I sit...and this nonsense disappears...is this dangerous, doctor? [scared]


Gassho. gassho1

Jundo
09-05-2013, 05:52 PM
Sometimes I sit, not wanting anything at all, beyond all fear of danger ... and a golden flying Buddha appears. :encouragement:

Marcelo de Valnisio
09-05-2013, 06:06 PM
Sometimes I sit, not wanting anything at all, beyond all fear of danger ... and a golden flying Buddha appears. :encouragement:


Gassho. gassho1

Ishin
09-05-2013, 06:47 PM
Isn't it ironic how the letting go of wanting something special, is so profoundly special. I just posted this especially for.... who?

Gassho
C

Ricky Ramos
10-15-2013, 07:04 PM
Wonderful! It is in presicely in simplicity that we trully find the depth of wisdom.

Bobby
11-25-2013, 08:50 PM
[morehappy] :) gassho2

Gassho,
Bobby

Blaine
04-14-2014, 06:05 PM
Thank you Jundo. This is a great teaching.


The best Teacher or Community, as strange as it sounds, may be one that ... like the universe ... sometimes inspires and sometimes frustrates, sometimes energizes and sometimes bores, sometimes astounds and sometimes leaves cold ... all so that one might find Astounding Energetic Inspiration even right at the heart of the frustratingly dull or unbearably cold.

Gassho,
Blaine

Edward E
04-16-2014, 12:57 PM
Thank you Jundo. I need to reread this on a regular basis! This type of straightforward and honest teaching is one of the reasons I'm at Treeleaf.

Gassho,
Eddie

Byokan
11-09-2015, 05:49 PM
So very disappointing, Jundo, thank you! gassho2

Gassho
Lisa
sat today

Jishin
11-09-2015, 06:24 PM
Jundo is so very disappointing. I thought he was going to fix me and everything would be hunky dory. Thanks a lot!

Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

Doshin
11-09-2015, 11:52 PM
Well that's enlightening.

Lisa, glad you keep bringing these talks to my attention, I think ;)

Jishin, I had no expectations Jundo could fix me. A zen teacher once told me my case could take a hundred years.....sigh

Gassho

Randy
sattoday

Jundo
11-10-2015, 01:33 AM
Well that's enlightening.

Lisa, glad you keep bringing these talks to my attention, I think ;)

Jishin, I had no expectations Jundo could fix me. A zen teacher once told me my case could take a hundred years.....sigh

Gassho

Randy
sattoday

Perhaps 100 lifetimes or 100 instants or 100 endless Kalpa.

Gassho, J

SatToday

Jika
03-17-2016, 07:20 AM
gassho1

Onkai
03-17-2016, 07:05 PM
gassho2 Thank you

Gassho,
Onkai
SatToday

Gokai
03-17-2016, 07:11 PM
Thank you for this wonderful teaching. Life as it is.
Gassho
David

Sattoday

Jundo
03-18-2016, 03:08 AM
I am glad you like this talk. Watching again, I was very let down. Big disappointment.

Gassho, J

SatToday

Joyo
03-18-2016, 03:17 AM
I just watched this again too. It was equally disappointing and wonderful. [gassholook]

Gassho,
Joyo
sat today