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Thread: BOOK OF EQUANIMITY - Case 10

  1. #1

    BOOK OF EQUANIMITY - Case 10

    Case 9 never ends, yet now comes ...

    CASE 10 - Joshu See Through The Old Woman

    So, this mountain called Mt. Taizan is still very famous in China as a religious pilgrimage site, said to be the place where lives the Bodhisattva Manjusri (a Bodhisattva of Wisdom). Monks would come to a crossroads near the old woman's tea shop and ask directions to the mountain. She would reply "Straight ahead". When the monks would then set off straight ahead down the road, toward the mountain, she would say something like, "Is that what you think it is about?".

    So, we walk ahead diligently, straight ahead ... but where will we truly find what we are looking for? On some touristy mountain? In the next book we read or youtube talk we watch? In the tea shop? At the crossroads? In the monk? All of the foregoing, and no place at all? Where does Manjusri really live?

    So Joshu goes to check out the old lady, and says he sees her "through and through". Does that mean that he has seen her for a charlatan? A Zen poser (like those folks all over the internet who engage in "Zen Speak" and cheesy imitation "Dharma Combat")? Or, "poser" or not, in seeing "through and through" has he seen right through the lady, no lady to see, and thus straight ahead into Joshu and she him? Has he seen everyone and everything, and no place at all? Has he seen clear straight through to Manjusri and the mountain?

    QUESTION - On your spiritual searches, where are you looking? Are you looking in the right places? Where do you think the mountain and Manjusri are to be found?

    One other thing nice to mention about Koans like this is the respectful, central place it appears to give a gifted lay person, even a woman! (That was quite something in the Ordained Priest dominated, "man's world" of traditional Chinese society back then).

    Gassho, J
    Last edited by Jundo; 07-27-2012 at 06:25 AM.
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  2. #2
    QUESTION - On your spiritual searches, where are you looking? Are you looking in the right places? Where do you think the mountain and Manjusri are to be found?

    - I'd like to say that I "Only go straight, don't know" as Seung Sahn puts it.

    But the truth is I'm more often like the monks, always seeking the mountain on the horizon. Whether in a book, video, podcast, or right here on at Treeleaf--always searching, searching.

    Which is fine, we need to do some searching to function in this relative world. But it's in zazen that I can set aside this searching mind, this endless grasping, and just sit with things-as-they-are. I think my searching-to-zazen ratio is too high!

    For now, I'm just a monk lost on his way to the mountain. But tonight I will sit in its shadow.

    _/\_
    Gassho,
    Kaishin

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Jundo View Post

    QUESTION - On your spiritual searches, where are you looking? Are you looking in the right places? Where do you think the mountain and Manjusri are to be found?
    I'm not on a spiritual search, just an endless worldy one, one damn thing after another, all very heartfelt. Manjushri and the Mountain are on it too.

    ...all too zen-clever a response, but it is true.

    Gassho.
    大山

  4. #4
    Thank you for this Jundo ... it instantly made me go "hmmmm, let me think about that one".

    Gassho
    Michael
    倫道 真現

    As a trainee priest, please take any commentary by me on matters of the Dharma with a pinch of salt.

  5. #5
    I oscillate like everything in the universe, sometimes I'm at peace, sometimes not and I grasp for an answer "out there".

    This reminds me a Dogen quote: "Guanyin is found amid hearing, considering, practicing, and truly verifying the mind. Why seek appearances of her sacred face within a cave? I proclaim that pilgrims must themselves awaken. Guanyin does not abide on Potalaka Mountain."

    But all zenny quotes aside, I do grasp, even trying to use zazen to feel at peace... Using it as a means to an illusory end.

    Gassho,

    Risho

  6. #6
    Friend of Treeleaf Myozan Kodo's Avatar
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    Hi,
    Like Kojip I really don't feel like I'm trying to go anywhere. And yet I am going. Not thinking about it.
    Gassho
    Myozan

    PS there is an old guy who wrote a book in the nineteenth century about the Pyrenees mountain range in southern France, where I am at the moment. He wanted to "be" the mountain. So, he had his friends bury him up to his neck on the tallest peak one stormy night. They dug him out the next day, alive and, by all accounts, very rugged.
    Last edited by Myozan Kodo; 07-27-2012 at 08:04 AM.
    Myozan Kodo
    Ordained Soto Zen Priest in Training
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    As a trainee priest, please take any commentary by me on matters of the Dharma with a pinch of salt.
    "Here the way unfolds."

  7. #7
    QUESTION - On your spiritual searches, where are you looking? Are you looking in the right places? Where do you think the mountain and Manjusri are to be found?

    If you're on a spiritual journey to a special " Holy Place " then the direction straight ahead is as good as any. When you become weary from your search and pause to rest you may discover what you where looking for was with you the whole time. Dogen's life long search for the core of his practice was discovered in Shikantaza. What better teacher could we ask for to set the example of a spiritual journey within our very self. Shikantaza and ease of living go together like toast and butter. bows, Shogen

  8. #8
    Senior Member Heisoku's Avatar
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    QUESTION - On your spiritual searches, where are you looking? Are you looking in the right places? Where do you think the mountain and Manjusri are to be found?

    A long time ago before I knew anything about Buddhism I went to Wutai Shan (Mt Taizan) with a dear friend on something of a pilgrimage for truth. It is one of the most beautiful places I have been and includes a 2000m escarpment!!! We climbed all 4 peaks looking at stuff. We looked at many of the temples including the stupa containing a relic of the Buddha. It was a really beautiful time. I even met Manjusri in the form of a very old wizened single-toothed monk wearing tattered robes looking like a beggar, who on SEEING us laughed, and laughed in a way that you knew he was laughing at you and the whole YOU! I will never forget this. Being laughed at for looking for 'truth' in the external world!! What fools!!
    Well at least it stopped me from running around looking outwards!

    Image.jpg A real turning point.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Heisoku; 07-28-2012 at 07:38 AM. Reason: Change resolution.
    Heisoku
    平 息

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Heisoku View Post
    QUESTION - On your spiritual searches, where are you looking? Are you looking in the right places? Where do you think the mountain and Manjusri are to be found?

    A long time ago before I knew anything about Buddhism I went to Wutai Shan (Mt Taizan) with a dear friend on something of a pilgrimage for truth. It is one of the most beautiful places I have been and includes a 2000m escarpment!!! We climbed all 4 peaks looking at stuff. We looked at many of the temples including the stupa containing a relic of the Buddha. It was a really beautiful time. I even met Manjusri in the form of a very old wizened single-toothed monk wearing tattered robes looking like a beggar, who on SEEING us laughed, and laughed in a way that you knew he was laughing at you and the whole YOU! I will never forget this. Being laughed at for looking for 'truth' in the external world!! What fools!!
    Well at least it stopped me from running around looking outwards!

    Image.jpg A real turning point.
    Man, that's such a wonderful thing.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Heisoku's Avatar
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    Well I must own up to feeling really piqued by the guy at the time! At least I can laugh at that silly youth now!
    Heisoku
    平 息

  11. #11
    Senior Member galen's Avatar
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    Just keep going, straight ahead...

    As pointedly possible, at the level of sentient beingness, of our present awareness, that we have attained in `this world.

    Just keep going, straight ahead... its seems there is nothing more to say or do.




    galen
    Nothing Special

  12. #12
    Senior Member galen's Avatar
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    Thank you, Jundo.


    Is there a wrong place to look?

    Can a so-called wrong, show what is right?

    Just keep going straight ahead....




    galen
    Nothing Special

  13. #13
    QUESTION - On your spiritual searches, where are you looking? Are you looking in the right places? Where do you think the mountain and Manjusri are to be found?

    I have been the monks a bit hurt by her kind and clear words. Straight ahead, if you we are seeking some thing greater outside ourselves to add to our collection of holy things and places...yep keep going... a great lesson ahead
    Joshu had seen through her and his words were exactly right but may still have fell on deaf ears.

    Here I have heard the teaching repeated over and over - you already enlightened, practice nurtures this seed and mistakes(realizing them and getting back up) provides fertile ground.
    The moment we grasp at some other person/place/thing or idea in hopes it will provide us with the "answer" we are quite lost. Couldn't be clearer yet I have often forgot this or had little faith in this simplicity and gotten it all muddied up looking for a Mountain or Bodhisattva.

    Gassho
    Shohei

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by galen View Post
    Thank you, Jundo.


    Is there a wrong place to look?

    Can a so-called wrong, show what is right?

    Just keep going straight ahead....




    galen
    Hi Galen,

    Yes. When hiking up and down this Buddha Mountain ... every step by step is Buddha Mountain.

    Yet, some paths are better than others, for some lead into poison ivy or off a cliff! Though there is ultimately no place to fall ... many chances to stumble and fall.

    So long as one can get back up and on the trail, one can find a better path.

    Gassho, J
    Last edited by Jundo; 07-30-2012 at 12:36 AM.
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  15. #15
    Senior Member galen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jundo View Post
    Hi Galen,

    Yes. When hiking up and down this Buddha Mountain ... every step by step is Buddha Mountain.

    Yet, some paths are better than others, for some lead into poison ivy or off a cliff! Though there is ultimately no place to fall ... many chances to stumble and fall.

    So long as one can get back up and on the trail, one can find a better path.

    Gassho, J
    Thank you for that kindly timely insight , Jundo.

    I also wonder if we really have a choice other then to get back up and onto that ever chugging train, which goes nothing but straight forward. I seemed to have fallen into the deepest separations between those ties while hearing the train flying by overhead, like many, and yes I wanted to give up and say to the hell with it whats the use, but then again, the only alternative is death or suicide (been there many years back). To grab that handle on the boxcar, of that ever racing train and pull ourselves back up, is the only `real choice we have. I will admit, there has always been something tucked deep inside that does keep me forever searching, and not giving up, and then to find there are ways forward, and that is probably why most of us are on this site. That deeply tucked something, seems to be the Buddha's beckoning and patience, to better direct the Way into our heart of hearts.

    From some of my religious and metaphysical studies over the years, I really like the concept of everything be`ing a blessing. The so-called wrongs, mistakes and even when hurting someones feelings, come back at you for the lessons that only Kama, what goes around, can teach. As you and most of us know, to know what is this so-called right, for the most part, it seems we have to know this wrong first. And besides, it seemingly is all perception and a judgement, and a lot of time another's projection. Thank you for letting me do my speech and your kind words.




    galen
    Last edited by Jundo; 07-30-2012 at 12:36 AM.
    Nothing Special

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by galen View Post
    T

    I also wonder if we really have a choice other then to get back up and onto that ever chugging train, which goes nothing but straight forward. I seemed to have fallen into the deepest separations between those ties while hearing the train flying by overhead, like many, and yes I wanted to give up and say to the hell with it whats the use, but then again, the only alternative is death or suicide (been there many years back). To grab that handle on the boxcar, of that ever racing train and pull ourselves back up, is the only `real choice we have. I will admit, there has always been something tucked deep inside that does keep me forever searching, and not giving up, and then to find there are ways forward, and that is probably why most of us are on this site. That deeply tucked something, seems to be the Buddha's beckoning and patience, to better direct the Way into our heart of hearts.

    From some of my religious and metaphysical studies over the years, I really like the concept of everything be`ing a blessing. The so-called wrongs, mistakes and even when hurting someones feelings, come back at you for the lessons that only Kama, what goes around, can teach. As you and most of us know, to know what is this so-called right, for the most part, it seems we have to know this wrong first. And besides, it seemingly is all perception and a judgement, and a lot of time another's projection. Thank you for letting me do my speech and your kind words.




    galen
    Hi Galen,

    Well, the analogy was "trail" not "train" (my typo), but it works just as well!

    Yes, everything on the trail ... or train ... is Buddha, including our wrongs, mistakes and hurtful actions. Also, there is no way to fall off the train ... or trail. Nonetheless, there are careful and smart ways to walk or ride and not fall and get hurt (or hurt our travel companions ... all just us, and us them by the way, as is the whole Trail/Train too!).

    I am glad you did not proceed to suicide, for life is this walk ... or ride straight ahead.

    Gassho, J
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  17. #17
    Senior Member galen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jundo View Post
    Hi Galen,

    Well, the analogy was "trail" not "train" (my typo), but it works just as well!

    Yes, everything on the trail ... or train ... is Buddha, including our wrongs, mistakes and hurtful actions. Also, there is no way to fall off the train ... or trail. Nonetheless, there are careful and smart ways to walk or ride and not fall and get hurt (or hurt our travel companions ... all just us, and us them by the way, as is the whole Trail/Train too!).

    I am glad you did not proceed to suicide, for life is this walk ... or ride straight ahead.

    Gassho, J
    Well said, Judo....... the term 'Dharma dueling', called hossen in Japanese, was considered an honorable thing back in the early centuries. It was usually carried out or by, two Enlightened monks as a so called joust or battle of 'wit', which could become an extended encounter (i am sure it was not from an egoic stance of one-ups-manship or any winning or losing, but from and intuitive one). Also the term for Dharma dueling between a master and student was called mondo, where the student would ask a question they had been perplexed by, to the master, and of course he would not give the answer through theory or logic, but replying only evoke an answer from the deeper levels of the students intuitive mind. So, I enjoyed our nice passive Dhama duel, Jundo !
    Nothing Special

  18. #18
    Senior Member galen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jundo View Post
    Hi Galen,

    Well, the analogy was "trail" not "train" (my typo), but it works just as well!

    Yes, everything on the trail ... or train ... is Buddha, including our wrongs, mistakes and hurtful actions. Also, there is no way to fall off the train ... or trail. Nonetheless, there are careful and smart ways to walk or ride and not fall and get hurt (or hurt our travel companions ... all just us, and us them by the way, as is the whole Trail/Train too!).

    I am glad you did not proceed to suicide, for life is this walk ... or ride straight ahead.

    Well said Jundo....... the term 'Dharma dueling', called hossen in Japanese, was considered an honorable thing back in the early centuries. It was usually carried out or by, two Enlightened monks as a so called joust or battle of 'wit', which could become an extended encounter (i am sure it was not from an egoic stance of one-ups-manship or any winning or losing, but from an intuitive one). Also the term for Dharma dueling between a master and student was called mondo, where the student would ask a question they had been perplexed by, to the master, and of course he would not give the answer through theory or logic, but replying only to evoke an answer from the deeper levels of the students intuitive mind. So, I enjoyed our nice passive Dhama duel, Jundo !




    galen
    Last edited by Jundo; 07-31-2012 at 01:27 AM.
    Nothing Special

  19. #19
    Member Thane's Avatar
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    Hi everyone

    I really like this koan. Good to see a woman playing a central role in a koan. Some of the zen teachers i have admired most have been female.

    In answer to Jundo's question i try to focus on each moment and focus my spiritual searches on my daily activity as that is where Manjusri is to be found. However, there are times, perhaps a busy day in the office, where i catch myself dreaming of the lonely peak where i could be free to do real practice. The old ladies wise words help pull me back.

    Gassho

    Thane

  20. #20
    Friend of Treeleaf Daido's Avatar
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    Just walking.

    Daido
    Jiken Daido - Unsui at Treeleaf's Brother Sangha, the Blue Mountain White Clouds Hermitage.

    Do not just accept what I say. Decide for yourself if it rings true for you

  21. #21
    Knowing where to find Manjushri is only half, you also need to take steps and actions to get there. This is what this koan is pointing to. In every single place you go you always have a chance to embody the wisdom of Manjushri and compassion of Avalokiteshvara. And the instructions are absolutely the same whether you're a monk or a venerable old master – just go right ahead.
    Last edited by andyZ; 07-31-2012 at 05:07 PM.
    Gassho,
    Andy

  22. #22
    Friend of Treeleaf Daido's Avatar
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    Andy I think that was beautifully put!

    Gassho

    Daido
    Jiken Daido - Unsui at Treeleaf's Brother Sangha, the Blue Mountain White Clouds Hermitage.

    Do not just accept what I say. Decide for yourself if it rings true for you

  23. #23
    We go straight ahead but we don’t. Know what we are going to find. So take care and enjoy one step at a time.
    _/_
    Rich
    MUHYO
    無 (MU, Emptiness) and 氷 (HYO, Ice) ... Emptiness Ice ...

  24. #24
    Senior Member AlanLa's Avatar
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    My search takes me to various things, but the point of the search and all the things I find on that search is just a means to reflect back on me. Maybe what I am searching for is better reflection tools to see "me" better, deeper. I do know, now, that it's not out there somewhere, at all.

    You know, the world is round, so, theoretically speaking, no matter what direction you go you end up back at the same place. The zen circle, enso, is the same way; you always end back at the beginning. I am the same way, no matter what direction I go, or search, I will always end up back at "I," so might as well go straight ahead.
    AL (Jigen) in:
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  25. #25
    Senior Member Ekai's Avatar
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    QUESTION - On your spiritual searches, where are you looking? Are you looking in the right places? Where do you think the mountain and Manjusri are to be found?

    There is no need to search for the Manjusri and the mountain because it exists right here, right now within ourselves. Instead of searching or looking elsewhere or going straight forward, I try to see straight through the ego, delusions, concepts and ignorance to see the Dharma and my true self while being with things just as they are. Wiping away the dirt that clouds the vision creates clarity to see that the wisdom of Manjusri is found in our hearts and mind.

    Gassho,
    Ekai

  26. #26
    Hi.

    I have nothing to add that has not already been said.

    Mtfbwy
    Fugen
    Treeleaf Unsui
    Blog: http://fugenblog.blogspot.com/

  27. #27
    Senior Member Koshin's Avatar
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    I've always had some need to seek answers to certain questions on the spiritual plane, and always thought it would be in some kind of knowledge, some outside source .... I'm not so sure anymore, and I guess that's good ...


    When the monk stood before the old woman and asked where to find the mountain, she replied: "Straight ahead".... She was talking about what was straight ahead of her point of view: The monk

    Gassho
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    P.S. Yup, I know, my English sucks

  28. #28
    Treeleaf Unsui rculver's Avatar
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    QUESTION - On your spiritual searches, where are you looking? Are you looking in the right places? Where do you think the mountain and Manjusri are to be found?
    Where I look now isn't where I looked at first. I'm increasingly finding there is no where to look. ImageUploadedByTapatalk1344174946.393372.jpg

    Ron




    Shugen
    As a priest in training, please take everything I say with a pinch of salt

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    明道 修眼

  29. #29
    Treeleaf Unsui/Engineer Kyonin's Avatar
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    On your spiritual searches, where are you looking? Are you looking in the right places? Where do you think the mountain and Manjusri are to be found?

    It's funny but I don't do any spiritual search at all. I just do things when the time feels right with no previous idea or plan. I sit and observe life around me and walk.

    I climb the Buddha Mountain every day, one step at a time without thinking on what's next.

    Gassho,

    Kyonin
    Please remember I am only a priest in training. I could be wrong in everything I say. Slap me if needed.

    The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one. Mr. Spock

  30. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Jundo View Post
    On your spiritual searches, where are you looking? Are you looking in the right places? Where do you think the mountain and Manjusri are to be found?
    Thank you for going through these koans with us!

    I must admit I have bit of a problem with "spiritual search", maybe I just dont can do much with this term. Basically my spiritual journey was driven by searching solutions for very day to day problems of me. Usually this led to reading a book, as opposed to most people I seem to learn better from books then from teachers usually.

    I dont think that there are right and wrong places, and not just from the point of absolute truth. I think thats as long as we look, no matter where, as long as we search, there is the problem. Not trying to solve a problem can be the solution, and in this sense, every place we look, we search is a wrong place.

    I'm not sure about Manjusri, but I think wisdom comes when we allow it to come. As long as the mind is filled with tv-shows (I mean my own, the ones that are just seem to be received out of nowhere about what I have to do and how ...), as long as the mind is filled, there is few space left for wisdom to grow. Thus I think its safe to say Manjusri finds me when I sit down, let go (aka "you cannot find Chuck Norris, Chuck Norris finds you!" Which is just another spontaneous tv-spot that pops in my head this moment).

    _()_
    Myoku

  31. #31
    Senior Member AlanLa's Avatar
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    "Straight ahead = keep going"

    That's what pops into my head every time this koan pops into my head. Just keep going. Where is the spiritual path/mountain? You're on it. Just keep going. And just now I thought maybe the old lady's attitude is this: What a stupid question for a monk; he should know that already. And Joshu seeing through her is just an approval; She's alright. I am keeping it simple, huh.
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  32. #32
    Senior Member Amelia's Avatar
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    The question answers itself for me, or I am deluded.
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  33. #33
    Senior Member galen's Avatar
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    When I first arrived at this site, I hovered and watch for a while (6 months), feeling my comfort zone, and if being here felt sincere enough. Somewhere in that period I had read here someone putting down Deepak Chopra, and making a laugh at how insincere he was supposedly was. Well enough, fine, I too had some feelings of doubt about his persona, of which seemed at times to be about him and his ego. In the past I have read a lot of his books, listened to his tapes and could never really get It from his writings. But have always respected him for who he is and what he is at least trying to do, and when he is on CNN I take notice. After all, he is doing the best he can and he really looks out for those with less and who are bigoted against. So when I read this ho ho ho about him here, it did not seem quite right from a Buddhist perspective, even though I could not put a finger on it at the time. But there is some irony here, ho ho ho, this morning I was reading koan #30, low and behold, Wick writes two paragraphs dedicated to Chopra quotes, and I might ad, in a very good light.

    In this same respect, a few months ago I was seeing the some attempts at putting down so-called Zen-speakers, and am witnessing it again, as some charlatan that can be seen through and through....

    “A Zen poser (like those folks all over the internet who engage in "Zen Speak" and cheesy imitation "Dharma Combat")?” My first ‘feelings’ from this, could Zen ‘internet priests’ be taken seriously, but I choose not to judge and do enjoy being here, its all a process and this is all about the larger picture, not small pettiness.

    Sitting at the high seat judging and projecting (ego), and does not come from one, but two.... it seems! Its about separation and dualism by not realizing we are all in this together, we are one. What is Zen speak, who is the judge and jury on this term, what good is it and whats the point (even though I get it)? When projecting, sometimes we need a mirror handy, in what could also be looked at from the perspective of a Zen-speaker putting down the so-called Zen-speaker. When we put anybody down that is doing their best, its our ego getting in the way and looking down on other, and not always the most healthy way to see other people who are doing their best with what they have to work with at time.

    With all do respect, I do enjoy the teachings of Jundo and Taigu, and love their passion for this Zen-sport.
    Last edited by galen; 08-11-2012 at 01:32 AM.
    Nothing Special

  34. #34
    Thank you Galen,
    I believe I remember the Chopra quote and of course the quote about the Zen Posers. Two things came into my mind,
    a) Who am I to judge you, to judge anyone here, to judge someone who's just judging someone else, if he is doing that at all. So better I stay quiet, we're not having an emergency here that requires action.
    b) We all have an ego, we all have opinions, everyone here. Thats ok and normal. Sometimes we express them, thats ok. Hopefully we seem then as what they are.
    Gassho
    Myoku
    Last edited by Myoku; 08-09-2012 at 05:23 PM. Reason: typo correction, clearer wording

  35. #35
    Senior Member galen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Myoku View Post
    Thank you Galen,
    I believe I remember the Chopra quote and of course the quote about the Zen Posers. Two things came into my mind,
    a) Who am I to judge you, to judge anyone here, to judge someone who's just judging someone else, if he is doing that at all. So better I stay quiet, we're not having an emergency here that requires action.
    b) We all have an ego, we all have opinions, everyone here. Thats ok and normal. Sometimes we express them, thats ok. Hopefully we seem then as what they are.
    Gassho
    Myoku

    Myoku,

    Thank you for your on-the-spot response , well said, in your staying quiet in response, non-response. I just wanted to make a response, obviously, some in defense of my ego, like you say here. We are all in THIS together, I was just feeling some of that was getting lost here. And hey man, thanks for the love!




    galen
    Last edited by galen; 08-10-2012 at 03:27 PM.
    Nothing Special

  36. #36
    Senior Member galen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Myoku View Post
    Thank you Galen,
    I believe I remember the Chopra quote and of course the quote about the Zen Posers. Two things came into my mind,
    a) Who am I to judge you, to judge anyone here, to judge someone who's just judging someone else, if he is doing that at all. So better I stay quiet, we're not having an emergency here that requires action.
    b) We all have an ego, we all have opinions, everyone here. Thats ok and normal. Sometimes we express them, thats ok. Hopefully we seem then as what they are.
    Gassho
    Myoku

    Myoku........ in realizing, no harm no foul, its all good, i did correct my miss spell of your name .


    _/\_

    galen
    Nothing Special

  37. #37
    QUESTION - On your spiritual searches, where are you looking? Are you looking in the right places? Where do you think the mountain and Manjusri are to be found?

    I don’t really have much to add than what has already been said. I guess at a gut level I sometimes feel more “pulled” than consciously moving straight ahead. Judgment enters and results in making a choice….sometimes good …sometimes not so good. And then back to being “pulled” straight ahead.

    Gassho,
    Jisen/BrianW

  38. #38
    Hi,

    I believe Mr. Chopra is largely a commercial operation, a holy "Profit$$" as he refers to himself. I know that, simultaneously, his books give some quick comfort to many ... but as a kind of fast food, Dharma Drive-Thru.

    He is a very bright man who can frequently express insightful and smart opinions, and many wise spiritual quotes, as bright and well-studied in their field people will. However, he also frequently expresses spiritual pap, schmaltz, woo woo and weirdness.

    http://www.aolnews.com/2010/04/05/ch...or-baja-quake/

    I know that many folks buy into his packaging ... thus the very large "Profit". I know he may frequently appear on CNN and Oprah, which unfortunately says much about the presentation of eastern spirituality in the media. I also know that many (most) people do not appreciate criticism of their particular spiritual heroes and sacred cows.

    As to the cheap "dharma combat" and "zen speak" that is so common, especially in many corners of the Buddhist internet (and may or may not have been common in old Chinese tea houses back in the day) ... we call that "the stink of Zen" (Zen Kusai in Japanese). Here is a pretty good definition I found ...

    Zen kusai is “Zen stink”, a common ailment among those who discuss things of a ‘spiritual’ nature ... . It is the bandying about of ‘spiritual’ sounding words, or a certain crafty, ‘paradoxical’ way of putting things, as if they hid some deep meaning — without their being truly rooted in experience.

    Stuart David makes fun of such "faux Dharma Combat" in the first few minutes of his biting video I posted elsewhere today ...

    Zen is a two headed crow ... two crows with one eye ... a Malibu Barbie.

    http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showt...ll=1#post83052

    Gassho, Jundo
    Last edited by Jundo; 08-12-2012 at 03:00 AM.
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  39. #39
    Put aside the intellectual practice of investigating words and
    chasing phrases, and learn to take the backward step that turns the
    light and shines it inward. - Dogen

    Thank you Jundo.

    Gassho
    Jeff

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