Tugas Gunadarma Gunadarma Tutorial VB.NET Download OST Anime Soundtrack Anime Opening Anime Ending Anime OST Anime Japan Download Lagu Anime Jepang

Results 1 to 36 of 36

Thread: SIT-A-LONG with JUNDO: Pain, Suffering & Freedom

  1. #1

    SIT-A-LONG with JUNDO: Pain, Suffering & Freedom

    I have friends these days who are feeling the pain of cancer, grief at the death of a spouse, worry over a sick child, a broken heart from a broken marriage, fear and despair from loss of a job. I wish I could take their pain away, but I can't. Zazen is powerless for all of it too, and can't cure their cancer, remove the physical pain, heal the baby, bring back the lost loved one or fix the economy. Zazen is useless in that way. Even the buddha could not escape sickness, old age and death, and in some of the old Suttas (such as quoted here from the Sangiti Sutta) had to give up Teaching on days when feeling too poorly (Some Buddhists say he was just pretending to be sick as "expedient means", but I don't think so):

    "Shariputra, you think of a discourse on Dhamma to give to the monks. My back aches, I want to stretch it."

    "Very good, Lord." Replied Shariputra.


    The buddha is quoted in his last days (from the Maha-Parinibbana Sutta):

    "Now I am frail, Ananda, old, aged, far gone in years. This is my eightieth year, and my life is spent. Even as an old cart, Ananda, is held together with much difficulty, so the body of the Tathagata is kept going only with supports. It is, Ananda, only when the Tathagata, disregarding external objects, with the cessation of certain feelings, attains to and abides in the signless concentration of mind, that his body is more comfortable."

    A recent posting by one of our Sangha members described his use of Zazen in place of anesthesia for minor surgery, and medical research shows that Zazen meditation resembling Shikantaza appears to reduce sensitivity to moderate pain. However, although some forms of meditation and self-hypnosis are helpful for relieving pain by concentrating or redirecting the mind away from the aches and the like ... probably modern pharmaceutical pain killers (despite the drawbacks) will do a quicker and more thorough job in this 21st century. Although a very helpful tool in some forms of pain reduction as one link in dealing with chronic pain and the like, I believe that Zazen's real real strength is not there.

    Likewise, while Zazen may (studies show) help or sometimes fully relieve depression or various other psychological conditions such as stress, panic disorders and various neurosis, it may not for the most stubborn cases or those with a physiological origin (as some sometimes depressed or alcoholic modern Buddhist Teachers like Taizan Maezumi, Chögyam Trungpa and Soen Nakagawa should attest). One had best seek counseling, medical treatment, a 12-Step Program or the like hand in hand with Zazen.

    Zazen can't even fix a bad tooth (you need to see a dentist, not a Zen Master, for that!) For the most part, Zazen will not relieve human pain.

    But "pain" is not "suffering" (Dukkha) in a Buddhist sense. This Dukkha is a special Buddhist word, perhaps best rendered as “dissatisfaction,” “anxiety,” “disappointment,” “unease at imperfection,” or “frustration” — the conditions wherein your little “self” wishes this life/world to be X, yet this life/world is not X. The dissatisfaction and anxiety at the "gap" is "Dukkha". For "Dukkha/Suffering", Zazen is absolutely a complete and thorough cure for everything that ails us! How?

    Well, on the one hand, the buddha left us a way to encounter a realm (also called "Buddha" ... but with a Big "B") where there is no pain, no disease, no birth or death, no separation, no loss, no bad teeth from the start ... because no individual selves to feel it! Zazen is the door. Of course (like the buddha's bad back), one will certainly continue to encounter days of pain, sickness, oral cavities and all the rest so long as one is alive in a human body (until we all leave this visible samsaric world and become Big B Buddha through and through!). Unfortunately, so long as we are alive in this messy world there will still be cancer, broken bones, broken hearts, broken relationships and all the rest. However (and strange as it may seem) through our Zen Practice, we also encounter a view free of a "we" to encounter any of that ... At Once!

    Strange as it may seem, when these two views are combined, we experience pain AND freedom from pain at once, separation AND wholeness at once, death AND no death at once, holes in life or broken dreams AND nothing ever missing or breakable at once. A bad tooth AND a Buddha's Smile At Once, As One.

    We also encounter a Buddha's Way of living filled with total allowing, letting be, radical acceptance of the pain, embracing of every loss and tragedy. That is so even as part of us, the human part, still cannot allow, tolerate or accept the pain, loss and tragedy one bit. When the two are combined as one, what results is an allowing-though not allowing, a 'letting be' even while (simultaneously) passionately resisting, and an acceptance without acceptance of pain, loss and tragedy. Such seemingly contradictory ways of living with pain and tribulations can be lived at once, as one. We are better able to bear it all, shoulder it, endure. Thus (as counter-intuitive and contradictory as it may sound) we experience human fear and a Buddha's fearlessness at once, sadness and endless peace at once, physical pain which we scream from -and- spiritual calm at once, a broken heart and nothing ever broken at once.

    No, Buddhism and Zazen can not fix your cancer, busted marriage, broken incisor or other hard times. In life, there’s sickness, old age, death, loss … other physical and mental pain. But that’s not why ‘Life is Suffering‘. Not at all, said the Buddha. For:

    ... sickness is "suffering", but only when we refuse the condition …
    … old age, if we long for youth …
    … death, because we cling to life …
    … loss is "suffering", when we cannot let go …
    ... violated expectations, when we wish life otherwise …


    Thus, in Zazen, learn to live a way of life accepting, embracing, allowing, fully flowing as, celebrating a life of inevitable sickness, getting old, someday dying ourself or letting go of those we love, ups and down, gains and losses, sometime wins and sometime defeats ...

    ... cast them all into the great dance of Emptiness, and dance along ...

    ... learn to live with such total allowing and acceptance even as you cry sometimes, moan sometimes, are sad or grieving or depressed sometimes ...

    and thus (as humans do) you may still feel days of sadness, fear, loneliness or hurt ... but also Joy, Peace, Satisfaction, Wholeness and Completeness ... AT ONCE! ...

    ... you will feel times of pain like an aging buddha did ... but also Total Liberation from Dukkha, from Suffering.


    Today’s Sit-A-Long video follows at this link. Remember: recording ends soon after the beginning bells; a sitting time of 15 to 35 minutes is recommended

    Last edited by Jundo; 07-22-2012 at 05:39 AM.
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

    #SAT TODAY!

  2. #2
    Friend of Treeleaf Myozan Kodo's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Dublin, Ireland
    Posts
    2,106
    Jundo,
    Thank you for this teaching. It helped me in many ways.
    Gassho
    Myozan
    Myozan Kodo
    Ordained Soto Zen Priest in Training
    Dublin, Ireland

    As a trainee priest, please take any commentary by me on matters of the Dharma with a pinch of salt.
    "Here the way unfolds."

  3. #3
    Thank you Jundo for this wonderful teaching. This has helped me greatly, as I too have a loved one (mother) who suffers everyday. It is a hard thing to see someone whom you love suffer and even harder to just be with that suffering, allowing that suffering, accepting that suffering.

    Once again your clear explanation helps the dharma just sink right in.

    Gassho
    Michael
    倫道 真現

    As a trainee priest, please take any commentary by me on matters of the Dharma with a pinch of salt.

  4. #4
    Friend of Treeleaf Daido's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Corona, Ca
    Posts
    682
    Thanks Jundo.

    Gassho,

    Daido
    Jiken Daido - Unsui at Treeleaf's Brother Sangha, the Blue Mountain White Clouds Hermitage.

    Do not just accept what I say. Decide for yourself if it rings true for you

  5. #5
    Treeleaf Engineer Seimyo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Yuba City, California, USA
    Posts
    925
    Thank you Jundo. This will be one 'sit-a-long' I will sit with over and over.

    Gassho,
    Chris

  6. #6
    Metta to your friend with cancer and all those in pain.
    Thank you for this teaching

    Gassho

    Willow

  7. #7
    Hi,

    Sorry to be a "pain" to everyone, but I had forgotten to add this to the essay yesterday, and just put it in ...

    A recent posting by one of our Sangha members described his use of Zazen in place of anesthesia for minor surgery, and medical research shows that Zazen meditation resembling Shikantaza appears to reduce sensitivity to moderate pain. However, although some forms of meditation and self-hypnosis are helpful for relieving pain by concentrating or redirecting the mind away from the aches and the like ... probably modern pharmaceutical pain killers (despite the drawbacks) will do a quicker and more thorough job in this 21st century. Although a helpful tool in some forms of pain reduction as one link in dealing with chronic pain and the like, I believe that Zazen's real real strength is not there.
    Gassho, J
    Last edited by Jundo; 07-22-2012 at 03:02 AM.
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

    #SAT TODAY!

  8. #8
    Treeleaf Unsui Dosho's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Rochester, NY, USA
    Posts
    5,436
    Jundo,

    Thank you for this teaching.

    Gassho,
    Dosho
    Ordained Priest -In-Training
    Please take what I say with a grain of salt,
    especially in matters of the Dharma!

  9. #9
    Thank you, Jundo.

    There is a reference in a sutta somewhere (sorry for the sloppy reference) of the Buddha referring to the breaking of a bone as being like the breaking of a stick. It sounds like a separation, but it is the opposite of separation or anesthetic. It is 100% feeling, an absolute intimacy with physical pain. There is no standing back, no witness. The pain is alone... the pain belongs to the pain alone, and there is no experiencer of the pain... no reactive owner. 100% pain and no dukkha. When everything (body,mind, and world) is alone in this way, there is no dukkha regardless of conditions. But this comes and goes... there is also two-ness, and then pain is not alone... there is "my pain". Then pain is dukkha again. This is the way things seem to alternate. Zazen is not-two, non-dukkha, then there is two-ness and dukkha...

    Gassho. kojip.
    Last edited by Daizan; 07-22-2012 at 02:25 PM.
    大山

  10. #10
    Thank you, Jundo.

    _/\_
    Gassho,
    Kaishin

  11. #11
    Senior Member Heisoku's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Plymouth, Devon, UK
    Posts
    1,256
    Thank you Jundo. You have taken us beyond the suffering that cannot be controlled. As Okamura writes in Living by Vow..They (the five skandas) cannot be controlled because there is nothing to control them. However we can find in letting go that we can accept the flow and follow our life by being with it wholeheartedly all the way, come pain and sunshine!
    Thank you Jundo, Gassho.
    Heisoku
    平 息

  12. #12
    Thank you for this. It's always apt, even with the smallest bee sting (a few days ago on my run). My mom had to go to the er on Friday and will have surgery to repair a broken lead in her pacemaker on Monday, and she's worried, so I've been sitting with that and with her, though miles and miles away.

    Gassho,
    alan

  13. #13
    Senior Member galen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Mormon Country
    Posts
    352
    Well done, Jundo!



    galen
    Nothing Special

  14. #14
    Treeleaf Unsui/Engineer Kyonin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Mexico
    Posts
    3,110
    I have a fried who is going through a long list of brain surgeries to remove cancerous tumors and doctors say there is no pain killer available to help her. She asked me about pain and zazen, so this talk comes just in time.

    This is a very valuable teaching for all those in pain.

    Thank you, Jundo.

    Gassho,

    Kyonin
    Please remember I am only a priest in training. I could be wrong in everything I say. Slap me if needed.

    The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one. Mr. Spock

  15. #15
    Thank you for this Jundo. I'm experiencing Dukka at this moment though trying hard to just let everything be as it is. I have the stomach flu, nothing to write home about but I find myself wishing I didn't have it, wishing my stomach didn't hurt, wishing it would all be over with.

    I'm going to re-watch, and sit just as I am.


    _/\_
    Jigetsu
    _/\_
    Jigetsu

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Jigetsu View Post
    Thank you for this Jundo. I'm experiencing Dukka at this moment though trying hard to just let everything be as it is. I have the stomach flu, nothing to write home about but I find myself wishing I didn't have it, wishing my stomach didn't hurt, wishing it would all be over with.

    I'm going to re-watch, and sit just as I am.


    _/\_
    Jigetsu
    Watch, throw up, sit Zazen, sit in the bathroom, recline Zazen, Chant, Moan, sleep ...
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

    #SAT TODAY!

  17. #17
    Treeleaf Unsui Shokai's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Sarnia, Ontario Canada
    Posts
    2,115
    Blog Entries
    119
    Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional
    wise words, Thank you Jundo
    gassho, Shokai, still learning the way and knowing nothing
    仁道 生開 - Jindo Shokai "Open to life in a benevolent way"
    Just another itinerant monk; go somewhere else to listen to someone who really knows.

  18. #18
    Thank you

    Gassho
    Shohei

  19. #19
    Senior Member Marek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Cracow, Poland
    Posts
    177
    Thank you.

    Gassho,
    Marek

  20. #20
    Thank you.

    Gassho,

    Risho

  21. #21
    Thank you Jundo. It is very helpful for me to remember this at the moment, because I probably lose my job in a few weeks and I have a hard time to cope with that....

    Gassho,
    Bianca
    Gassho,
    Bianca

  22. #22
    _/\_

    Ade.

  23. #23
    Senior Member Ekai's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Southeastern Wisconsin
    Posts
    570
    Thank you for this teaching.

    Gassho,
    Ekai

  24. #24
    Senior Member kirkmc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Near Stratford-upon-Avon, England
    Posts
    928
    There are times when a teaching comes exactly when it is needed. This is one of those times for me. Thanks you.

  25. #25
    Great teaching. Thank you Jundo!
    Gassho,
    Onken

  26. #26
    Friends of Treeleaf Dokan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Ashburn, Virginia
    Posts
    1,321
    Thank you for the reminder.

    Gassho,

    Dokan

    PS - Up on podcast!
    We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are.
    ~Anaïs Nin

  27. #27
    Thanks jundo. After listening to your talk it reminds me how i am always getting in the way of all the doing in nearly every moment of every day.
    Gassho

  28. #28
    Thank you Jundo,
    Gassho
    Myoku

  29. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Jundo View Post
    ... sickness is "suffering", but only when we refuse the condition …
    … old age, if we long for youth …
    … death, because we cling to life …
    … loss is "suffering", when we cannot let go …
    ... violated expectations, when we wish life otherwise …


    Thus, in Zazen, learn to live a way of life accepting, embracing, allowing, fully flowing as, celebrating a life of inevitable sickness, getting old, someday dying ourself or letting go of those we love, ups and down, gains and losses, sometime wins and sometime defeats ...

    ... cast them all into the great dance of Emptiness, and dance along ...

    ... learn to live with such total allowing and acceptance even as you cry sometimes, moan sometimes, are sad or grieving or depressed sometimes ...

    and thus (as humans do) you may still feel days of sadness, fear, loneliness or hurt ... but also Joy, Peace, Satisfaction, Wholeness and Completeness ... AT ONCE! ...

    ... you will feel times of pain like an aging buddha did ... but also Total Liberation from Dukkha, from Suffering.


    Thank you, Jundo.

    Gassho.

  30. #30
    Friend of Treeleaf Taikyo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Wales, UK
    Posts
    427
    Thank You Jundo - very apt for me today!

    Gassho

    David

  31. #31
    Thank you Jundo.

    Sometimes when life is hard I can forget this. It was well needed.

    Gassho,

    Simon

  32. #32
    Thanks Jundo: I had seen this video before, but today, after the news that my mother will be going through studies for possible stomach cancer, I have felt much better. Gassho, and Blessings

  33. #33
    We will sit today's Zazenkai for your mom, Ricky.

    Gassho, Jundo
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

    #SAT TODAY!

  34. #34
    Treeleaf Unsui Shokai's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Sarnia, Ontario Canada
    Posts
    2,115
    Blog Entries
    119
    Thanks to Ricky and Simon for resurrecting this thread and having it pop up on my screen, especially today.
    Yesterday, I raked leaves, did some vacuuming, transferred some freezables from the garage to the basement and got a flu shot. Today my arm aches from where a nice nurse poked it with a needle and put a Snoopy band aid on. My back is extremely painful from some extra activity and left knee refuses to work. Jundo has asked me several times to write something about growing old. Well, the time has come and here it is; It sucks !! [too much] But, don't let me turn you off. There are many reasons to be grateful. Even though friends die (there is no one other than my step-mother who only became that when I was in my twenties and could be a tad forgetful in her 80s, that can tell you about me when I was a kid), and my immediate family members have all died, that's maybe not all that bad. There'll be no one to correct my memoirs. and, one advantage I have over most of you is I no longer need to worry whether I'll live to 75.
    Seriously, there is much to be grateful for. i truly enjoy watching people grow and learn; even blossom. One thing I am most grateful for is having gone back to school in my fifties. I literally lived with a bunch of kids and made some great friends that make my thinking young. Or, maybe it's just that it gave my entire being a kick start.
    So, don't get discouraged, keep on keeping on. There are lots of things to fix and change. Remember not to take life or yourselves too seriously. and I'll be waiting for you when you get there.
    gassho, Shokai, still learning the way and knowing nothing
    仁道 生開 - Jindo Shokai "Open to life in a benevolent way"
    Just another itinerant monk; go somewhere else to listen to someone who really knows.

  35. #35
    Treeleaf Unsui rculver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Cincinnati Ohio Area (Northern Kentucky)
    Posts
    1,963
    Thank you Shokai.

    Gassho


    Shugen
    As a priest in training, please take everything I say with a pinch of salt

    Meido Shugen
    明道 修眼

  36. #36
    Treeleaf Unsui Shokai's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Sarnia, Ontario Canada
    Posts
    2,115
    Blog Entries
    119
    _/\_

    Sent from my Note 2 using Tapatalk4
    gassho, Shokai, still learning the way and knowing nothing
    仁道 生開 - Jindo Shokai "Open to life in a benevolent way"
    Just another itinerant monk; go somewhere else to listen to someone who really knows.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •