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Thread: Rising doubts outside meditation

  1. #1

    Question Rising doubts outside meditation

    Hello,

    this is probably normal, but I often have doubts when I am not meditating (not during the moments I am meditating).

    Is my posture is correct when I meditate ?
    Does this type of meditation is good for me ?
    Do I meditate in a bad way?

    And so on ...

    You have probably experienced this too. What do you do in those moments?

    Ignore it ?

    Thank you.

    P.S. Please excuse the mistakes I have probably made, english is not my first language.
    Patrick__________________________
    Le mieux est l'ennemi du bien. -Voltaire
    The better is the enemy of the good. -Voltaire

  2. #2
    It took me a long time to balance my head on my spinal column or at least feel balanced. I still have knee and back pain after more than two sitting sesshins
    but it is what it is. If I get tired of sitting I stand. I guess I'm willing. To change.
    _/_
    Rich
    MUHYO
    無 (MU, Emptiness) and 氷 (HYO, Ice) ... Emptiness Ice ...

  3. #3
    Hi,

    Below is what we usually say, and I would suggest that you treat it as a Koan when these questions arise. You find a balanced posture that feels right, and that allows you to forget about it ... then you forget about it, and also forget all thought of "right and wrong" posture. We try to sit "right" ... but have a special view of "wrong and right". It may seem counter-intuitive, but doing it "right" fully transcends "right" ... and the payoff comes when the need for a payoff is radically dropped to the bone.

    -----------------------------------------

    Well, it may sound counter-intuitive, but our way is Shikantaza, which is sincere and dedicated sitting that's, radically and to the marrow, free of the need to get somewhere, attain some prize, which drops the hunger to attain something ... thus finding the True Home here along. In a life filled with the constant need to get somewhere else, fill some lack, fix what is broken, all that stuff the "me/myself/I" screams for ... dropping all need to get, fill and fix is a powerful medicine ... and the result is (counter-intuitive as it may seem) finally getting somewhere, attaining one's True Home, filling all holes as Whole.

    Here are a couple of talks I ask you to look at ...

    SIT-A-LONG with Jundo: WHAT'S NEXT!?!
    http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showt...-S-NEXT%21-%21

    SIT-A-LONG with Jundo: WHOLLY HOLY WHOLE
    http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showt...LLY-HOLY-WHOLE

    Right Zazen and Wrong Zazen
    http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showt...nd-Wrong-Zazen

    Gassho, J
    Last edited by Jundo; 07-15-2012 at 01:27 AM.
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  4. #4
    Senior Member ZenHarmony's Avatar
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    I understand how you feel, Tetsugakucha, since I've questioned if I was doing it right recently. For me, posture is important; in order to be able to breathe fully, I find that I need to think of my torso as a trunk of a tree, rooted in the zafu, which opens up my chest and allows more airflow. I practice this off the zafu as well, so that when I am sitting, it feels more natural and allows me to forget my body. That is the most important thing, to find a form that is natural and comfortable so that you forget about your body while you sit and that it doesn't interfere with your practice.

    Gassho,

    Lisa

  5. #5
    I had this happen recently but it was durring my zazen

    This didn't solve it but cleared alot of it up.... I gave up on all things I was hung up on... posture, mudra, time, what i did with my legs, all of it. Just for a day or so. Then got right back to doing it "correctly". I found that all the stuff I was "supposed" to be doing were there for a reason
    --Washu
    和 Harmony
    秀 Excellence

    "Trying to be happy by accumulating possessions is like trying to satisfy hunger by taping sandwiches all over your body" George Carlin Roshi

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by threethirty View Post
    .... I gave up on all things I was hung up on... posture, mudra, time, what i did with my legs, all of it. Just for a day or so. Then got right back to doing it "correctly".
    Yes! Constantly, completely and immediately give up on all of it ... posture, mudra, time, legs, all of it ... even as you sit in a balanced posture, with hands as a mudra, legs some comfortable way, for a timeless time ... moving forward and getting better while sitting still!

    Gassho, J
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  7. #7
    disastermouse
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by tetsugakucha View Post
    Hello,

    this is probably normal, but I often have doubts when I am not meditating (not during the moments I am meditating).

    Is my posture is correct when I meditate ?
    Does this type of meditation is good for me ?
    Do I meditate in a bad way?

    And so on ...

    You have probably experienced this too. What do you do in those moments?

    Ignore it ?

    Thank you.

    P.S. Please excuse the mistakes I have probably made, english is not my first language.
    Hopeless. It might be a big mistake to focus so hard on doing it correctly. One of the easiest ways to avoid being here is to have a technique for 'being here'. Shikantaza isn't a technique, and that's why it's so hard to explain.

    IMHO.

    Chet

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Jundo View Post
    Yes! Constantly, completely and immediately give up on all of it ... posture, mudra, time, legs, all of it ... even as you sit in a balanced posture, with hands as a mudra, legs some comfortable way, for a timeless time ... moving forward and getting better while sitting still!

    Gassho, J
    Diddo! I too remember when I first started zazen and all the thoughts of right or wrong were dancing in my head. Its a funny thing though, when you drop those thoughts, everything finds it's place in it's very own ... like it knew where to be all along.

    Gassho
    Michael
    倫道 真現

    As a trainee priest, please take any commentary by me on matters of the Dharma with a pinch of salt.

  9. #9

    Thanks

    Thank you to all for your replies.

    A special thanks to Jundo


    Gassho,
    Patrick__________________________
    Le mieux est l'ennemi du bien. -Voltaire
    The better is the enemy of the good. -Voltaire

  10. #10
    Hi !
    Someone asked a very interesting question to me : why do you ask yourself those questions ?

    Well, If I asked these questions of the correct practice, I think it is because we all ask ourselves these questions periodically. I also think it is in part why there are Zendos (Sanghas). It is also part of the practice to help each other when we have moments of doubts. Thanks to all of you for your presence. Gassho,
    Patrick__________________________
    Le mieux est l'ennemi du bien. -Voltaire
    The better is the enemy of the good. -Voltaire

  11. #11
    Hello

    Taigu had pretty teachings in video about posture, as me He was trained in France with a perfect posture but it involves sometimes big pain, he told me once it's not a question of doing a military posture, pain don't go away after years of sitting. We must be confortable to be sitted. (I hope that I don't say anything wrong, I don't want to speak for him neither)
    Do I meditate in a bad way? I think that we feel this "somethink taste" when we do shikantaza, we can feel it intuitively (correct?).
    This way of meditating is good for me? I think yes, I feel good most of time in zazen, and I notice that this way is good for me if I check the influences out of the zazu, in my daily life

    Just my experience

    Gassho Testu

    Yang Hsin

  12. #12
    About the posture, I remember sesshin here, when I had not a straight posture, too relax beacause of my mind, I received 2 kyosaku hit without asking
    I don't think it is a good way to be guilty about it

    Gassho

    Yang Hsin

  13. #13
    Sitting is an interesting process. From awareness of breath to awareness of hearing to awareness of breath and hearing to awareness of breath, hearing, seeing the wall to awareness of awareness...what a tumble. But as someone posted earlier, I try not to buy them all a drink.

    Gassho.

    Thank you to all the posters and the insight they have provided.

    Charlie

  14. #14
    Senior Member Marek's Avatar
    Join Date
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    Jundo

    Quote Originally Posted by threethirty View Post
    .... I gave up on all things I was hung up on... posture, mudra, time, what i did with my legs, all of it. Just for a day or so. Then got right back to doing it "correctly".
    Yes! Constantly, completely and immediately give up on all of it ... posture, mudra, time, legs, all of it ... even as you sit in a balanced posture, with hands as a mudra, legs some comfortable way, for a timeless time ... moving forward and getting better while sitting still!

    Gassho, J
    That was a key for me to ,,understand" zazen at the very first time. I understood that correcting my posture does not mean ,,correcting" zazen. And That allowed me to give up all of it, and at the same time still looking forward for more balanced posture (and I still have to do it!).

    Gassho,
    Marek

  15. #15
    disastermouse
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Marek View Post
    That was a key for me to ,,understand" zazen at the very first time. I understood that correcting my posture does not mean ,,correcting" zazen. And That allowed me to give up all of it, and at the same time still looking forward for more balanced posture (and I still have to do it!).

    This is awesome! Very clear description.

    Gassho

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by disastermouse View Post
    One of the easiest ways to avoid being here is to have a technique for 'being here'.
    Well said, sir!
    Gassho,
    Kaishin

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