Tugas Gunadarma Gunadarma Tutorial VB.NET Download OST Anime Soundtrack Anime Opening Anime Ending Anime OST Anime Japan Download Lagu Anime Jepang

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 51 to 100 of 109

Thread: BOOK OF EQUANIMITY - Case 1

  1. #51
    Member Thane's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Newtonhill, Aberdeenshire, Scotland
    Posts
    48

    Re: BOOK OF EQUANIMITY - Case 1

    Hi everyone

    I am fairly new to studying formal written Koans but i have enjoyed this first one. For me it said that the truth is right here and now in this moment. When we realise the Dharma-King's Dharma it is just being here present in this moment with out adding mental commentary to it. This moment might contain joy, indifference, stress etc but if we don't add our own mental commentary to it, it is experienced as the Dharma King's Dharma? The World Honored One descending from the platform seemed to me to add power to Manjushri's words and really hit home that these words really did point to the truth and nothing more needs to be added.

    In theory this makes sense to me but i know that it can be difficult to always live this in my own life. I recall a time several years ago where i felt very disappointed by the way i had been treated by an employer that i had really loved working for. Cutting a long story short i got myself in a real state about it. Was even signed off for three weeks as a result. It affected me emotionally for a year, maybe longer. What i beat myself up about was, hey i'm a Buddhist, and been practising for years, this shouldn't happen to me! I am calm and peaceful and my mind is fairly clear. I can laugh about this now. Maybe if i had read this koan then it would have help me? It might have helped me cut through the delusions i had set up about what a Buddhist is, what i am, and how practice and life should unfold. I might have seen that even this unpleasant situation the Dharma-King's Dharma just as it is.

    Well that is my first post on treeleaf and on this study and i look forward to studying with you all.

    In gassho

    Thane

  2. #52

    Re: BOOK OF EQUANIMITY - Case 1

    ... more shared refections - thank you Rich, Shokai, Thane and Pontus.

    I've gone back to the Preface to the Assembly - I'm not sure I understand it.


    Any thoughts?

    Would you 'step forward' ?

    Willow

  3. #53

    Re: BOOK OF EQUANIMITY - Case 1

    Quote Originally Posted by willow
    I've gone back to the Preface to the Assembly - I'm not sure I understand it.


    Any thoughts?

    Would you 'step forward' ?

    Willow
    I think if you "step forward" you bring your own expectation into this situation. In this case you expect some important dharma teaching yet "not getting any".

    What I don't get in the preface is this line – "I have no doubts about him." "Him" – the one who steps forward or the one who takes the high seat?

  4. #54
    Friends of Treeleaf Dokan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Ashburn, Virginia
    Posts
    1,321

    Re: Re: BOOK OF EQUANIMITY - Case 1

    Quote Originally Posted by andyZ
    What I don't get in the preface is this line – "I have no doubts about him." "Him" – the one who steps forward or the one who takes the high seat?
    Are you certain they are two?

    Gassho

    Dokan

  5. #55

    Re: Re: BOOK OF EQUANIMITY - Case 1

    Quote Originally Posted by Dokan
    Quote Originally Posted by andyZ
    What I don't get in the preface is this line – "I have no doubts about him." "Him" – the one who steps forward or the one who takes the high seat?
    Are you certain they are two?

    Gassho

    Dokan
    Yeh - that's what was throwing me Andy - but I see what Dokan's pointing at.

    But do we stand and scowl (while reflecting, abbreviating, elaborating - like I'm doing right now :roll: ) or close the gate and snooze?

    Willow

  6. #56

    Re: Re: BOOK OF EQUANIMITY - Case 1

    Quote Originally Posted by Dokan
    Quote Originally Posted by andyZ
    What I don't get in the preface is this line – "I have no doubts about him." "Him" – the one who steps forward or the one who takes the high seat?
    Are you certain they are two?

    Gassho

    Dokan
    That's an interesting perspective. Thank you.

  7. #57
    Friend of Treeleaf Myozan Kodo's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Dublin, Ireland
    Posts
    2,107

    Re: BOOK OF EQUANIMITY - Case 1

    And the wordless became FLESH!
    (And still dwells among us)

  8. #58

    Re: BOOK OF EQUANIMITY - Case 1

    Quote Originally Posted by Myozan Kodo
    And the wordless became FLESH!
    (And still dwells among us)
    John 1:14

    14 The Word became flesh and made His dwelling among us. We have seen His glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

    Gassho, J

  9. #59
    Senior Member Ekai's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Southeastern Wisconsin
    Posts
    570

    Re: BOOK OF EQUANIMITY - Case 1

    This case reminds of the quote by Chogyam Trungpa, "First thought, Best thought"

    Can you describe a problem or incident in your life, now or in the past ... a situation that is/was very hard ... that your head was filled with thoughts and emotions about, and that you resisted or hated very much ... but would have/did/might experience very differently by just being "without words", just allowing and not fighting?

    Too many times to count :shock: ! It's easier to recall when my head was clear during a difficult time than when it was out of control. I have a tendency to worry when something goes wrong. A new mole must mean it's cancer or when my computer program glitches, it must be junk. Then it's time to surf on the internet for more information that usually results in a waste of time. There is definitely improvement over the years in letting go of thoughts/emotions, and I notice quicker when the mind becomes unruly. But, it's still an ongoing process. I aspire to be like my mom and mother-in-law. They have cultivated the ability to be with things "just as they are". It's quite comical to see the unnecessary turmoil the mind adds to challenging situation .

    Gassho,
    Ekai

  10. #60

    Re: BOOK OF EQUANIMITY - Case 1

    This past Sunday was Mother's Day in the US. My mother decided she would like a simple day at a local park with close family. So my wife and I, our two daughters, my sister, her boyfriend, and his wonderful old dog spent the day there with my mother and father. We had a nice picnic lunch in the shade, played with the girls on the playground equipment, went for a leisurely hike around the lake. It was one of the most enjoyable outings I can remember, and after reading this koan, I think that's largely due to me "turning off" my brain. I tend to add so much mental commentary to every experience I have, but not this time... not sure why.

    So it was just

    eating, eating, eating
    playing, playing, playing,
    hiking, hiking, hiking
    laughing, laughing, laughing,
    loving, loving, loving

    kids throwing rocks into the lake, watching the water ripple
    everyone laughing at the old dog's delight at jumping into the shallow water, "hunting" the geese
    reminiscing about our time as little kids at the same park with our parents

    nothing complicated, nothing orchestrated

    ascending, descending

    _/_

  11. #61

    Re: BOOK OF EQUANIMITY - Case 1

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaishin
    This past Sunday was Mother's Day in the US. My mother decided she would like a simple day at a local park with close family. So my wife and I, our two daughters, my sister, her boyfriend, and his wonderful old dog spent the day there with my mother and father. We had a nice picnic lunch in the shade, played with the girls on the playground equipment, went for a leisurely hike around the lake. It was one of the most enjoyable outings I can remember, and after reading this koan, I think that's largely due to me "turning off" my brain. I tend to add so much mental commentary to every experience I have, but not this time... not sure why.

    So it was just

    eating, eating, eating
    playing, playing, playing,
    hiking, hiking, hiking
    laughing, laughing, laughing,
    loving, loving, loving

    kids throwing rocks into the lake, watching the water ripple
    everyone laughing at the old dog's delight at jumping into the shallow water, "hunting" the geese
    reminiscing about our time as little kids at the same park with our parents

    nothing complicated, nothing orchestrated

    ascending, descending

    _/_
    Thank you, Kaishin. Lovely.

    When we can be this way, 'tis truly something ... all welcome, even the sometime ants and passing rain storms of life's picnic.

    Gassho, J

  12. #62

    Re: BOOK OF EQUANIMITY - Case 1

    Just checking in to say that I read the first case. Difficult day with my birth family. I tried to accept that things are as they are. I need more practice.

  13. #63

    Re: BOOK OF EQUANIMITY - Case 1

    Walking, standing, and sitting all daily examples of wisdom without words. There is a time for speaking and a time for silence. Knowing when to apply them is wisdom. When i am silent now is without dogma or definition but when i speak there is only a goal and now is only a wake. Great learning has always come from silent observation but I can't remember learning anything when speaking. What difference is there between silence and ATTENTION? gassho shogen

  14. #64
    Senior Member Ekai's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Southeastern Wisconsin
    Posts
    570

    Re: BOOK OF EQUANIMITY - Case 1

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaishin
    This past Sunday was Mother's Day in the US. My mother decided she would like a simple day at a local park with close family. So my wife and I, our two daughters, my sister, her boyfriend, and his wonderful old dog spent the day there with my mother and father. We had a nice picnic lunch in the shade, played with the girls on the playground equipment, went for a leisurely hike around the lake. It was one of the most enjoyable outings I can remember, and after reading this koan, I think that's largely due to me "turning off" my brain. I tend to add so much mental commentary to every experience I have, but not this time... not sure why.

    So it was just

    eating, eating, eating
    playing, playing, playing,
    hiking, hiking, hiking
    laughing, laughing, laughing,
    loving, loving, loving

    kids throwing rocks into the lake, watching the water ripple
    everyone laughing at the old dog's delight at jumping into the shallow water, "hunting" the geese
    reminiscing about our time as little kids at the same park with our parents

    nothing complicated, nothing orchestrated

    ascending, descending

    _/_
    I did a similar thing with my son on Mother's Day. It was a beautiful, bright sunny day and we played outside in the backyard blowing bubbles. Then I put him in the stroller and we walked to the park. Hunter and I went down the slides together and just enjoyed being together. I thought about this koan too and brought myself back to the moment whenever my mind intellectualized the experience. It was wonderful to just be with my son with nothing else added.

    Gassho,
    Ekai

  15. #65
    Senior Member Nenka's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Central Illinois, USA
    Posts
    1,022

    Re: BOOK OF EQUANIMITY - Case 1

    Can you describe a problem or incident in your life, now or in the past ... a situation that is/was very hard ... that your head was filled with thoughts and emotions about, and that you resisted or hated very much ... but would have/did/might experience very differently by just being "without words", just allowing and not fighting?
    Yes. All the time. And sometimes you have to know when to get off your platform, and when to stay there and say something useful.

    When you realize the Dharma-King's dharma, the Dharma-King's dharma is just as it is.

    When you realize.

    When.

    Until then, you probably won't see it.

    Gassho

    Jen

  16. #66

    Re: BOOK OF EQUANIMITY - Case 1

    I've been rolling around this koan..

    There is something I want to see in it... a suggestion or promise that with the right “letting go”,
    what is not-ok will be ok while being not-ok. Somehow the very not-ok-ness will, on a deeper level, be ok. But that is not what this koan is about. It is not about letting go... at all.

    This line from Jundo's poem...

    "This Moment on 10,000 blades".

    .. it flashes-out to ok is ok, and not-ok is not-ok... It is not about letting go, or surrender, or just being, or allowing, any effort, or non-effort, at all... it is not about any of that. It just flashes out..

  17. #67

    Re: BOOK OF EQUANIMITY - Case 1

    Quote Originally Posted by Kojip
    "This Moment on 10,000 blades".

    .. it flashes-out to ok is ok, and not-ok is not-ok... It is not about letting go, or surrender, or just being, or allowing, any effort, or non-effort, at all... it is not about any of that. It just flashes out..
    There's a fine line between experience - as is ness - flashing out - being in the zone - suchness - and thinking about or havng opinions about or judgements about experience. Doesn't moving about freely between them involve some action which some might call letting go?

  18. #68
    Blue Mountain White Clouds Hermitage Priest Taigu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    2,905

    Re: BOOK OF EQUANIMITY - Case 1

    Not a word is
    Not getting in the way
    Of the Way

    Way-self
    beyond construct beliefs blablabla
    Ascends

    As you-me-others
    Return to the source
    The origin is eloquently silent

    Drive or sleep
    Shop or clean up
    It ll find you there

    The eloquent silent
    Which is you all over
    All along
    And no big deal

    Gassho

    T.

  19. #69

    Re: BOOK OF EQUANIMITY - Case 1

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich
    Quote Originally Posted by Kojip
    "This Moment on 10,000 blades".

    .. it flashes-out to ok is ok, and not-ok is not-ok... It is not about letting go, or surrender, or just being, or allowing, any effort, or non-effort, at all... it is not about any of that. It just flashes out..
    There's a fine line between experience - as is ness - flashing out - being in the zone - suchness - and thinking about or havng opinions about or judgements about experience. Doesn't moving about freely between them involve some action which some might call letting go?
    ha.. I just wrote a looong piece about practice history and suffering etc.. then pushed the wrong key. pooof.


    Basically in my experience letting-go is non-suffering.. but there is also holding-on and suffering. There is both. I used to think practice was about uprooting greed, hatred, and delusion.. so there would only be non-suffering...Nirvana, but have learned that Zen practice is about realizing Nirvana and Samsara , non-suffering and suffering, as two sides of one "coin". Maybe this is what Sunface Buddha/Moonface Buddha means? This koan is about that "coin".. and it can't be entered by either holding or letting go. So it is a flash.


    But just talking about this now... it falls like a lump of coal at my feet.

    Gassho, kojip

  20. #70
    Treeleaf Unsui/Engineer Kyonin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Mexico
    Posts
    2,881

    Re: BOOK OF EQUANIMITY - Case 1

    I've been sitting. I've been thinking about this koan.

    Sitting. And then I look back at my life, at my beloved ones lives.

    I sit. I work, then I stop and think again.

    I go about my day and realize the silence. The reasons.

    Answers. Dharma in the silence.

    Tears.

    Awake.

    Accept the universe as it is. Accept the words, the thoughts, the diversity, the preferences.

    Awake.

  21. #71

    Re: BOOK OF EQUANIMITY - Case 1

    Quote Originally Posted by Jundo
    What was spoken loud and clear by the Buddha, coming up ... going down the stairs?
    Words are just words! _()_

    Quote Originally Posted by Jundo
    What was taught that might not be heard in a lecture of 10,000,000 words?
    Words are just words! _()_

    _()_
    Myoku

  22. #72

    Re: BOOK OF EQUANIMITY - Case 1

    Quote Originally Posted by Taigu
    Not a word is
    Not getting in the way
    Of the Way

    Way-self
    beyond construct beliefs blablabla
    Ascends

    As you-me-others
    Return to the source
    The origin is eloquently silent

    Drive or sleep
    Shop or clean up
    It ll find you there

    The eloquent silent
    Which is you all over
    All along
    And no big deal

    Gassho

    T.
    Beautiful - peace expressed through words

    Gassho

    Willow

  23. #73

    Re: BOOK OF EQUANIMITY - Case 1

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyonin
    I've been sitting. I've been thinking about this koan.

    Sitting. And then I look back at my life, at my beloved ones lives.

    I sit. I work, then I stop and think again.

    I go about my day and realize the silence. The reasons.

    Answers. Dharma in the silence.

    Tears.

    Awake.

    Accept the universe as it is. Accept the words, the thoughts, the diversity, the preferences.

    Awake.

    ... and this too. Calm, acceptance and inner peace.

    Fully awake.

    Thank you Kyonin

    Willow

  24. #74

    Re: BOOK OF EQUANIMITY - Case 1

    Quote Originally Posted by Kojip

    But just talking about this now... it falls like a lump of coal at my feet.

    Gassho, kojip
    Yes, I feel the same. The dharma king was right. (and taigu is pretty cool too

  25. #75

    BOOK OF EQUANIMITY - Case 1

    Yes, but sometimes expressing oneself in words is necessary to realize the emptiness of words, at least for me. Sometimes, it's only when I express something in words that things fall into place. And sometimes when I say something out loud, I understand how flawed my understanding was.

    Silence sometimes speak volumes.
    Words sometimes speak silence.

    Gassho,
    Pontus

  26. #76

    Re: BOOK OF EQUANIMITY - Case 1

    Words and Buddhist Ideas alone are not barriers!

    Dogen ... the master wordsmith ... held well expressed language to be the very essence of Buddhist Truths. For Dogen, suchness was not a matter of rejecting or embracing silence or speaking (there are right moments for each) ... but of how what is said, the well turned and turning phrase. The right words and Buddhist ideas do not simply describe Truth, but dance Truth itself, are Truth Dancing.

    Properly Illuminated words are not simply 'the finger pointing at the moon which cannot be described in words'. Enlightened words are the Very Moonlight.

    Open any page of Shobogeno, sentence by rich sentence, and one realizes that Dogen did not see words as an obstruction ... but only words of ignorance as obstructing, and Wise Words As Realization Realizing!

    Zen Teacher David Loy talks about this, quoting the great Dogenologist Prof. Hee-Jin Kim ...

    Dogen's revaluation of commonplace Buddhist metaphors in particular leaves us no doubt about his understanding of language .... Concepts, metaphors, parables, and so forth are not just instrumental, convenient means to communicate truth, for they themselves manifest the truth-or rather, since that is still too dualistic, they themselves are the truth that we need to realize. "Metaphor in Dogen's sense is not that which points to something other than itself, but that in which something realizes itself," summarizes Kim. "In short, the symbol is not a means to edification but an end in itself-the workings of ultimate truth." As Dogen himself puts it in the Muchu-setsumu ... : "The Buddha-dharma, even if it is a metaphor, is ultimate reality." If I do not try to get some graspable truth from the metaphor, it can be a way my mind consummates itself: although symbols can be redeemed only by mind, the mind does not function in a vacuum but is activated by-or as-symbols.

    In the Sansuikyo fascicle, Dogen criticizes those who have only an instrumentalist view of language and who think that koans are simply nonsensical ways to cut off thought: "How pitiable are they who are unaware that discriminating thought is words and phrases, and that words and phrases liberate discriminating thought." What a challenge to the traditional Buddhist dualism between language and reality: the goal is not to eliminate concepts but to liberate them! Despite their problematical aspects, "words are not essentially different from things, events, or beings-all 'alive' in Dogen's thought."

    ... [Dogen] shows us that words and metaphors can be understood not just as instrumentally trying to grasp and convey truth (and therefore dualistically interfering with our realization of some truth that transcends words), but as being the truth-that is, as being one of the many ways that Buddha-nature is. To the many dualisms that Nagarjuna deconstructs, then, Dogen explicitly adds one more: he denies the dualism between language and the world. If we are the ones who dualize, why blame the victims? A birdsong, a temple bell ringing, a flower blooming, and Dogen's transpositions, too, blossoming for us as we read them: if we do not dualize between world and word, then we can experience the Buddha-dharma-our own "empty" nature-presencing and playing in each.
    http://www.thezensite.com/ZenEssays/Dog ... gainst.htm
    Gassho, J

  27. #77

    Re: BOOK OF EQUANIMITY - Case 1

    Thanks Jundo, for pointing this out.

  28. #78

    Re: BOOK OF EQUANIMITY - Case 1

    Hi Jundo.. could you please have a word for this?....

    Suchness... isness.. not-two.. is non-dukkha. For a long time for me there was only two-ness.. and that two-ness is Dukkha.. dissatisfaction.. It is the two-ness of wanting this moment to be other than it is. When caught up in that dukkha... that two-ness, talk of "suchness" is just talk. I struggled like a mule for years before finally being like Oscar Wilde on his deathbed.. looking at the ugly wallpaper.. and saying 'one of us has to go".... and then there was non-dukkha.. and not-two... or as Taigu says in his talks on the oxherding pictures.. no "watcher". So no watcher.. no one to see my own funeral. But, of course ..the watcher.... and wanting this moment to be other than it is.. on at least some subtle level, comes back, and there is dukkha... again. and that's the way it goes. So my question is about integrating both ...suchness, and non-dukkha, and suchness effectively eclipsed by greed hatred and delusion.... how to integrate both Dukkha and non-dukkha? ...and just understanding they are one nature is of little use when greed hatred and delusion hold sway. It is little more than blessing the marriage after the elopement. This koan seems to speak to realizing a simpler experiential integration.. apart from just an acknowledgement. .. There is a hint.. a flash.. but I am too brutish... grrrrrrr.

    Gassho Kojip.

  29. #79

    Re: BOOK OF EQUANIMITY - Case 1

    Quote Originally Posted by Kojip
    Hi Jundo.. could you please have a word for this?....

    Suchness... isness.. not-two.. is non-dukkha. For a long time for me there was only two-ness.. and that two-ness is Dukkha.. dissatisfaction.. It is the two-ness of wanting this moment to be other than it is. When caught up in that dukkha... that two-ness, talk of "suchness" is just talk. I struggled like a mule for years before finally being like Oscar Wilde on his deathbed.. looking at the ugly wallpaper.. and saying 'one of us has to go".... and then there was non-dukkha.. and not-two... or as Taigu says in his talks on the oxherding pictures.. no "watcher". So no watcher.. no one to see my own funeral. But, of course ..the watcher.... and wanting this moment to be other than it is.. on at least some subtle level, comes back, and there is dukkha... again. and that's the way it goes. So my question is about integrating both ...suchness, and non-dukkha, and suchness effectively eclipsed by greed hatred and delusion.... how to integrate both Dukkha and non-dukkha? ...and just understanding they are one nature is of little use when greed hatred and delusion hold sway. It is little more than blessing the marriage after the elopement. This koan seems to speak to realizing a simpler experiential integration.. apart from just an acknowledgement. .. There is a hint.. a flash.. but I am too brutish... grrrrrrr.

    Gassho Kojip.
    Hi Kojip,

    I know you're asking Jundo, but I thought I'd chime in. I agree, intellectually understanding that good and bad are two faces of the same coin is somewhat worthless. Is this your question? How does intellectually understand of this truth matter/help? I don't know, I'm asking; I can't quite parse this question. What does simpler experiential integration mean? Simpler than what? I'm sure Jundo's words will be better, but here is Shunryu Suzuki, a passage I've been rereading lately and which seems to pertain to this:

    We should find perfect existence through imperfect existence. We should find perfection in imperfection. For us, complete perfection is not different from imperfection We should find the truth in this world, through our difficulties, through our suffering. This is the basic teaching of Buddhism. Pleasure is not different from difficulty. Good is not different from bad. Bad is good; good is bad. They are two sides of the same coin. That is right understanding of practice, and the right understanding of our life. So to find pleasure in suffering is the only way to accept of the truth of transiency This is the basic teaching of how to live in this world. Whatever you may feel about it, you have to accept it.

    -Zen Mind, Begginer's Mind 92.

    When you say, suffering is all gone, whose suffering has disappeared?

    When you say, suffering has come back, whose suffering has returned?

    Anyway, darkness into darkness.

    Gassho,
    Alan

  30. #80

    Re: BOOK OF EQUANIMITY - Case 1

    Quote Originally Posted by alan.r
    We should find perfect existence through imperfect existence. We should find perfection in imperfection. For us, complete perfection is not different from imperfection We should find the truth in this world, through our difficulties, through our suffering. This is the basic teaching of Buddhism. Pleasure is not different from difficulty. Good is not different from bad. Bad is good; good is bad. They are two sides of the same coin. That is right understanding of practice, and the right understanding of our life. So to find pleasure in suffering is the only way to accept of the truth of transiency This is the basic teaching of how to live in this world. Whatever you may feel about it, you have to accept it.
    This still sounds like getting something to me. "Acceptance" is going from here to there. Acceptance as acceptance, and non-acceptance as non-acceptance.. ....that is not going from here to there. That is this thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by alan.r

    When you say, suffering is all gone, whose suffering has disappeared?

    When you say, suffering has come back, whose suffering has returned?
    Suffering as in back pain ?.... sure. But Dukkha.. is the lived sense (illusory or not) of 'I" apart... there is no such thing as realized no-self dukkha. Dukkha is dukkha.. and non-dukkha is non-dukkha. that is the wall. I do not expect an answer here. Just .. being up against that wall where there is no going from here to there.

    Dukkha is dukkha, non-dukkha is non-dukkha.... Nirvana is not other than Samsara... but nirvana is nirvana.. and samsara is samsara. That is where this koan leaves me...

    it's not as fussy a matter as it sounds.. it is very direct for me.


    gassho. kojip

  31. #81

    Re: BOOK OF EQUANIMITY - Case 1

    Quote Originally Posted by Kojip
    Hi Jundo.. could you please have a word for this?....

    Suchness... isness.. not-two.. is non-dukkha. For a long time for me there was only two-ness.. and that two-ness is Dukkha.. dissatisfaction.. It is the two-ness of wanting this moment to be other than it is. ... So my question is about integrating both ...suchness, and non-dukkha, and suchness effectively eclipsed by greed hatred and delusion.... how to integrate both Dukkha and non-dukkha? ...and just understanding they are one nature is of little use when greed hatred and delusion hold sway.
    Ah, two sides of the no sided coin ... samsara is nirvana, nirvana precisely samsara.

    That's why this is Practice-Realization ... just like painting. You are an artist. Did you learn to paint in a day? Have you actually gotten better at it over the years even though each painting is one by one?

    So, here is how I live this in life.

    In Zazen, one experiences (A) a realm with no thought of this or that, something to add or take away, me and you ... free of conflict, flowing, whole.

    And then there is (B) day to day messy life, places to go and people to see, always something in need of doing or fixing or which I wish were otherwise than what is, me bumping into you, frictions great and small, a million sometimes beautiful and sometimes horribly ugly pieces ... flowers and weeds, peace and war.

    The state of wholeness (A) is lovely ... but a mistake to think that only such is freedom from Dukkha. In turn (B) is Dukkha, but it is a mistake to think it is or need only be experienced so.

    So, for the experienced Zen practitioner, it is possible to learn to "flip a switch" to move mentally and physically, at will at various moments in life, between (A) and (B). Shikantaza Zazen is the vehicle that teaches us this skill. When (B) gets too hectic, ugly, fearful or any time ... switch to (A). We learn this trick.

    However, in Shikantaza, one also learns another view and taste (C) ... (or better said in 'Zen Speak', Not-A-Not-B ) ... where (A) is shining right through and through (B) like the white, open, whole canvas that holds all that is painted upon it. As (A) shines in silent illumination, (B) becomes translucent ... there is a Peace of One Piece which holds all the million broken pieces of life. So, more and more one might experience, for example, a "messy life" simultaneously lit by a certain Purity which comes from dropping all thought of clean, dirty, pure or impure ... places to go and people to see, simultaneously with the experience of no place in need of going and constant total arrival ... working to make things better, stop the war and cure the diseases, even while tasting that things are just as they are with nothing to add or take away ... you and me and frictions, simultaneously free of you and me and frictions ... a Beauty and Wholeness that somehow sweeps up and holds both the beautiful and ugly ... a One Piece Peace that is peace and war and all the broken pieces ... ALL AT ONCE, AS ONE.

    The canvas is there, but needs the painting to manifest life. The painting of beauty and ugliness is there, always the canvas holding all together. How to come and experience this more and more? Zazen ... Painting life, Practice.

    Something like that. Pardon these very imprecise words.

    To quote again Suzuki Roshi ....

    We should find perfect existence through imperfect existence. We should find perfection in imperfection. For us, complete perfection is not different from imperfection We should find the truth in this world, through our difficulties, through our suffering. This is the basic teaching of Buddhism. Pleasure is not different from difficulty. Good is not different from bad. Bad is good; good is bad. They are two sides of the same coin.

    -Zen Mind, Begginer's Mind 92.
    Gassho, J

    PS - For those not familiar with the term "Dukkha" ... look here ...

    No one English word captures the full depth and range of the Pali term, Dukkha. It is sometimes rendered as “suffering,” as in “life is suffering.” But perhaps it’s better expressed as “dissatisfaction,” “anxiety,” “disappointment,” “unease at perfection,” or “frustration” — terms that wonderfully convey a subtlety of meaning.

    In a nutshell, your “self” wishes this world to be X, yet this world is not X. The mental state that may result to the “self” from this disparity is Dukkha.
    viewtopic.php?f=21&t=2942

  32. #82

    Re: BOOK OF EQUANIMITY - Case 1

    Those are very precise words, Jundo. The perfect words in fact. Thank you.

    Gassho, Kojip.

  33. #83
    Senior Member Koshin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Mexico City
    Posts
    1,040

    Re: BOOK OF EQUANIMITY - Case 1

    Thank you Jundo, great way to explain this

    Gassho

  34. #84

    BOOK OF EQUANIMITY - Case 1

    Thank you Jundo,
    I liked that explanation very much.

    Gassho,
    Pontus

  35. #85
    Treeleaf Unsui Shokai's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Sarnia, Ontario Canada
    Posts
    2,084
    Blog Entries
    119

    Re: BOOK OF EQUANIMITY - Case 1

    Thank you Jundo, Arthur Murray could not have put it better

  36. #86
    Treeleaf Unsui Shokai's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Sarnia, Ontario Canada
    Posts
    2,084
    Blog Entries
    119

    Re: BOOK OF EQUANIMITY - Case 1

    But of course, you realize Ginger Rogers could do it backwards and in high heels :lol:

  37. #87

    Re: BOOK OF EQUANIMITY - Case 1

    ......................gassho...................... ....

    Tom

  38. #88
    Blue Mountain White Clouds Hermitage Priest Taigu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    2,905

    Re: BOOK OF EQUANIMITY - Case 1

    what kills the watcher
    is the beauty
    of it all


    gassho


    T.

  39. #89
    Blue Mountain White Clouds Hermitage Priest Taigu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    2,905

    Re: BOOK OF EQUANIMITY - Case 1

    Ginger Rogers is so...


    gassho


    T.

  40. #90
    Treeleaf Unsui Dosho's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Rochester, NY, USA
    Posts
    5,047

    Re: BOOK OF EQUANIMITY - Case 1

    Quote Originally Posted by Jundo
    Can you describe a problem or incident in your life, now or in the past ... a situation that is/was very hard ... that your head was filled with thoughts and emotions about, and that you resisted or hated very much ... but would have/did/might experience very differently by just being "without words", just allowing and not fighting?
    Yes, I can think of a few situations like that...EVERY DAY! The practice of shikantaza has allowed me to directly engage this "without words" approach and it has had amazing results in my life, but by trying to do absolutely nothing but sit. It was very hard for awhile and still is some days...to let thoughts drift in and out without trying to engage them, fix them, or find the perfect solution. But I encounter this type of thinking all the time and in certain situations it is very hard to deal with, especially during recent struggles with depression. My mind tries to figure out how to fix the depression rather than to just be with it...but does that mean I don't go to a doctor and (in my case) take medications to help? Of course not! I did go and do take meds to help. To try to fix them is wrong thinking...to suffer and not seek medical assistance is also the wrong view (for me....others may differ)...all while sitting and trying to achieve nothing. The thoughts, yes they are overwhelming, but I do not have to engage them and they are not "me". The silence is truly golden, but I don't mean the thoughts go away...they often don't...I mean the silence of not responding to them as I practice shikantaza. Nothingness...wholeness...all at once.

    Gassho,
    Dosho

  41. #91
    Senior Member Koshin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Mexico City
    Posts
    1,040

    Re: BOOK OF EQUANIMITY - Case 1

    Oh yes, the incessant chatter inside my mind is something I live with everyday ... little by little, through Zazen, I try to silence those voices that judge, that comment, that like or dislike, and generally interfere with the perception of things in this moment, as they are ... That does not mean I try to stop thinking, but I try hear a little bit more, to leave the reality talk with her voice without words, so that I can experience it more clearly, allowing, not fighting. It is not an easy thing to do, as a newbie, but anyway, I keep on trying.

    As Dosho says, I am not my thoughts, and that's something I have/had a hard time understanding (or non-understanding), since I'm one of those people in love with my own perception of myself, my own ego. Realizing the accidental nature of my own self, of my own existence is/was something hard to do, but at the same time it's soothing. In those rare moments of silence inside my head, these little sparks of reality, of understanding, come by themselves. I don't know what those little sparks really mean, I just smile

    Gassho

  42. #92

    Re: BOOK OF EQUANIMITY - Case 1

    Quote Originally Posted by Taigu
    what kills the watcher
    is the beauty
    of it all


    gassho


    T.
    I feel ready to accept this..

    It is different than the disciplinarian style of Zazen I was taught, and am accustomed to. Through the strict keeping of form.. "wanting this moment to be other than it is" .. hits the wall.. and is gathered into a single ball with the whole body and mind.. until it is total, and gives way. It is not gentle... and maybe it is no way to really kill the watcher... maybe it just traumatizes him into hiding.


    Gassho. and thank you. Kojip.

  43. #93
    Blue Mountain White Clouds Hermitage Priest Taigu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    2,905

    Re: BOOK OF EQUANIMITY - Case 1

    Hi Kojip,

    This is also my background, this rigid militaristic style...and then, stuck, utterly stuck, in pain and stiff to the very core I had no other choice than to find my teacher who pointed to the non-moon.

    Non-doing.

    Non doing.

    Waking up to the fact that I am over-doing.

    Awakening cannot be the fruit of a personal effort, it is a gift unveiled by the ten thousand dharmas coming forth and enlightening the self (the beauty of it all)

    Let's all read Genjokoan again and again


    let's all give flesh and blood to it

    Let's allow it to be our very flesh and bones


    gassho


    T.

  44. #94

    Re: BOOK OF EQUANIMITY - Case 1

    Jundo, what a wonderful teaching. Thank you so much.

    Gassho,
    Alan

  45. #95

    Re: BOOK OF EQUANIMITY - Case 1

    Quote Originally Posted by Dosho
    Quote Originally Posted by Jundo
    Can you describe a problem or incident in your life, now or in the past ... a situation that is/was very hard ... that your head was filled with thoughts and emotions about, and that you resisted or hated very much ... but would have/did/might experience very differently by just being "without words", just allowing and not fighting?
    Yes, I can think of a few situations like that...EVERY DAY! The practice of shikantaza has allowed me to directly engage this "without words" approach and it has had amazing results in my life, but by trying to do absolutely nothing but sit. It was very hard for awhile and still is some days...to let thoughts drift in and out without trying to engage them, fix them, or find the perfect solution. But I encounter this type of thinking all the time and in certain situations it is very hard to deal with, especially during recent struggles with depression. My mind tries to figure out how to fix the depression rather than to just be with it...but does that mean I don't go to a doctor and (in my case) take medications to help? Of course not! I did go and do take meds to help. To try to fix them is wrong thinking...to suffer and not seek medical assistance is also the wrong view (for me....others may differ)...all while sitting and trying to achieve nothing. The thoughts, yes they are overwhelming, but I do not have to engage them and they are not "me". The silence is truly golden, but I don't mean the thoughts go away...they often don't...I mean the silence of not responding to them as I practice shikantaza. Nothingness...wholeness...all at once.

    Gassho,
    Dosho
    Wow man, thank you for sharing something so personal. Just going to a doctor to treat depression is an incredible step. My father is bi-polar, and to get him to take his medication at first was incredibly challenging. I went through a bout of severe depression, and I'm lucky to be here, a couple of months after finding out my dad had his condition. What's funny is that I never knew my real dad until after he got better through treatment, and now we are closer than ever, so I'm so thankful for his depression and mine because it showed me what was truly important.

    Your sharing got me to thinking about how I post here. I think when I post stuff, I don't necessarily post superficially, but my posts can be "clean". Who am I? I constantly try to share more and more of myself with everyone here. I have barriers that I face that slows down my process of opening up, so thank you for that lesson.

    Also, your point of your thoughts not being you is awesome because it is a slam to the pop-culture self-help nonsense (and I love shining the light on bs). lol In a way, we are our thoughts, but believing that we are not our thoughts is also a thought, and it opens up a whole new way of experiencing things. We filter everything through our mind, but this practice is indeed awesome to slowly observe that filter more and more.

    Gassho,

    Risho

  46. #96

    Re: BOOK OF EQUANIMITY - Case 1

    Quote Originally Posted by Dosho
    Quote Originally Posted by Jundo
    Can you describe a problem or incident in your life, now or in the past ... a situation that is/was very hard ... that your head was filled with thoughts and emotions about, and that you resisted or hated very much ... but would have/did/might experience very differently by just being "without words", just allowing and not fighting?
    Yes, I can think of a few situations like that...EVERY DAY! The practice of shikantaza has allowed me to directly engage this "without words" approach and it has had amazing results in my life, but by trying to do absolutely nothing but sit. It was very hard for awhile and still is some days...to let thoughts drift in and out without trying to engage them, fix them, or find the perfect solution. But I encounter this type of thinking all the time and in certain situations it is very hard to deal with, especially during recent struggles with depression. My mind tries to figure out how to fix the depression rather than to just be with it...but does that mean I don't go to a doctor and (in my case) take medications to help? Of course not! I did go and do take meds to help. To try to fix them is wrong thinking...to suffer and not seek medical assistance is also the wrong view (for me....others may differ)...all while sitting and trying to achieve nothing. The thoughts, yes they are overwhelming, but I do not have to engage them and they are not "me". The silence is truly golden, but I don't mean the thoughts go away...they often don't...I mean the silence of not responding to them as I practice shikantaza. Nothingness...wholeness...all at once.

    Gassho,
    Dosho
    Hi.

    Yes, so true.
    I would also like to add that even though it is never easy, i feel, in my humble experience, it gets easier and easier, like finding you way on a road often traveled.

    Mtfbwy
    Fugen

  47. #97

    Re: BOOK OF EQUANIMITY - Case 1

    Quote Originally Posted by Taigu
    what kills the watcher
    is the beauty
    of it all


    gassho


    T.
    Does beauty die with the watcher?
    gassho shogen

  48. #98

    Re: BOOK OF EQUANIMITY - Case 1

    Sorry to be a bit late to the party on this one...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jundo
    At the core of the experiment, I would like to ask each member joining in this book club to post something each week ... some message ... just to signal to the others that we are all together. However, in posting your message ... you do not necessarily need to say anything (even a blank space as your posting is fine if that is what is sincerely felt), or a photograph, a poem, a song lyric, a cartoon, a story.
    With Jundo's instructions in mind I thought of the following excerpt from a blog post I made some time ago:

    But…hagiographies (i.e.,idealized stories) can also be a burden. When objective facts hit us in the face it can be devastating and our idealism unravels. Sometimes we are saved by “THAT” broken piece of reality and it becomes oddly comforting. Our “What was THAT all about?” becomes recognizable as simply “THAT.

    Anyone interested may view the entire post here..... (the images in the post probably more "on target" than the words....click on for larger view.)

    http://a-west-end-view.blogspot.com/...n-stories.html

    Gassho,
    Jisen/BrianW

  49. #99

    Re: BOOK OF EQUANIMITY - Case 1


  50. #100

    Re: BOOK OF EQUANIMITY - Case 1

    beautiful picture lol
    Even a car is a phenomena, Dharma everywhere

Similar Threads

  1. BOOK OF EQUANIMITY - Case 8
    By Jundo in forum "BEYOND WORDS & LETTERS" BOOK CLUB
    Replies: 44
    Last Post: 07-24-2012, 11:31 PM
  2. BOOK OF EQUANIMITY - Case 7
    By Jundo in forum "BEYOND WORDS & LETTERS" BOOK CLUB
    Replies: 27
    Last Post: 07-10-2012, 01:43 PM
  3. BOOK OF EQUANIMITY - Case 6
    By Jundo in forum "BEYOND WORDS & LETTERS" BOOK CLUB
    Replies: 41
    Last Post: 07-04-2012, 10:28 PM
  4. BOOK OF EQUANIMITY - Case 3
    By Taigu in forum "BEYOND WORDS & LETTERS" BOOK CLUB
    Replies: 47
    Last Post: 06-15-2012, 02:56 AM
  5. BOOK OF EQUANIMITY - Case 2
    By Jundo in forum "BEYOND WORDS & LETTERS" BOOK CLUB
    Replies: 79
    Last Post: 05-29-2012, 04:28 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •