Two bulls drinking at a stream.
One a reflection of the other.
But which one?
Two bulls drinking at a stream.
One a reflection of the other.
But which one?
Myozan's bulls:
Two bulls drinking
could they both be reflections
of the very stream?
No drinking, no bull
not even a stream
where are you then?
:wink:
T.
Sounds like a bunch of bull to me. :wink:
A Zen Priest poetry slam ... This is a first.
An old tradition, Gregor...conversing in poems has always been a way to bypass the limitations of the dualistic mind, a way to dance, just leaving birds feet prints in the snow. Nothing much. Actually bullshit. . i also call it junk on my blog. But much better that the would be this and that, i think this and it wouldnt be better like that that you find eveywhere.
There is something I cannot teach.
The way of birds, waters, rain and stuff.
Feel welcome.
Gassho
T.
These are wonderful. Thank you Myozan and Taigu. Here is a little addition.
No bulls, no stream, no reflections.
Where am I?
Beside the steady breathing
Of my wife’s sleep.
Gassho,
alan
Alan, you might enjoy the Haiku Chain thread. Gassho, Grace.Originally Posted by alan.r
Great responses!
The bull enters the stream:
They are one!
Tokudo in a room or online:
Different permutations, same sum.
Time this monk versifying quit.
My great awakening?
That I'm full of shit.
:wink:
Beautiful, beautiful thread.
I will sit on that.
Thank you.
Choco;
May be a language thing but, don't sit on it; sit with it :lol:
And Myozan; not full, just down a quart. :lol:
I was never able to talk about bulls and streams. Even coming from the country, bulls were not a regular part of my life. Neither are lotus blossoms or chopsticks or mystic mountains.
I think it all started simple with teachers referencing what was at hand. We could be talking about one's hand on a PS3 controller or motorcycle handlebars. We could talk about vodka mixing with water...
Not as poetic, but with a lot less embellishment or reversions to old forms that can make what is really quite mundane seem 'special' in an artificial way.
What is more direct and immediate than reality? Why not use what is most direct and immediate to illustrate it?
My half a nickel,
Chet
In the morning sunOriginally Posted by disastermouse
empty bottles on the windowsill.
My hair still smells like smoke.
*
The dog running in his sleep,
a dusty controller not touched in years.
Another spring day.
Here are the things that go in poem, here are the things that don't? Here are the things that are real, here are the things that aren't?
A poem is its own reality; it just also happens to point.
Quite true Chet and yet the bull here has a good old significance as well...I often use modern words in my f..... .. poetry. Which I have boiled down to the simpliest form. Used to write novels, essays, philosophy, very long forms.
But your suggestion is good and welcome.
gassho
Taigu
We're you referencing the Ox Herder?Originally Posted by Taigu
Chet
(I think I need to work on making my comments sound less critical. Often times I make it sound like my preference is 'the way'. I have no problem understanding the old poems and stories about lotuses and other common things of the time and I understand the stylistic choice. I'll try to make an attempt to reflect that it's preference.)
Indeed, Chet and some other stuff. First, Myozan's poem is inspired by my quote of an old Koan describing two bulls entering a river and vanishing, obviously a vivid description of how the pair of opposites cannot but collapse into each other. Second, the sound of awakening is often described as being like the spontaneous, gut-like, sound of a cow, or a bull. Because the bull, wild ox, water buffalo or cow represent the original nature, raw and empty. Third, the famous Koan of the Gateless gate comes to mind, case 38 of a great cow or bull passing through a window and the tail not making it...
gassho
Taigu
For Chet
Two rats at a polluted puddle.
One a reflection of the other.
But which one?
Thanks Taigu. I just wrote the poem inspired by your words. A deep bow for your teachings.
PS: I used to watch the bull on my Uncle Noel's farm when I was a child. He drank from a stream that goes through his land. I've also seen rats at puddles. But that is of no consequence. I could imagine them too. I could imagine the bull in a distant time and place. There are no restrictions. Everything is available.
I wasn't talking about availability, I was talking about immediacy, but I get your point.
Taigu: I need to study more. Gassho.
Chet
Hi Chet - as Taigu says - you make a valid point.
Plenty of space for both ways of coming at things - but you did
hit the nail on the head (again - you often do). I had been thinking
to myself that it's important to find our own metaphors - whilst learning from
and appreciated the past.
I find your thoughts here enlivening - you are not afraid to say what you think.
Perhaps you feel the presentation is too direct/or comes across in a negative/critical manner - but I wouldn't worry - we are
all different - not a bad thing to have different styles.
Thank you
Willow
How about a verse guys?
Gassho
Myozan
I always feel trite and pretentious writing poetry anywhere anyone can see it. That's not an indictment of anyone else's poetry though.Originally Posted by Myozan Kodo
Chet
LOL
You are right! That's my bad English working. Thanks Shokai.
I will sit with that
Originally Posted by Shokai
Chet,Originally Posted by disastermouse
That's the problem with self-attachment. That's why "the delusions are inexhaustible".
PS. Btw, I feel the same way, but working on it
Ah, this is a little sad, to me. And I hate to steer the topic away from the original question (why are we using old forms and images?), but poetry is almost dead as a popular form, especially in this country, and I think it's because of this feeling. Many people get the idea that poetry, in general, is pretentious, for stuck up, intellectuals. And if you write poetry then you're the height of pretentiousness. I realize you're saying you feel this way about yourself, but this is also the attitude I find from most non-poetry readers (the cause is diverse: pop culture, tv, all the other entertainments, etc). Anyway, the reason for this is often under-exposure both to poetry and of poems (and I'm not saying this about you necessarily): people who don't like poetry or find it pretentious are the same ones who don't read it (because it's not accessible) and don't write it. Anyway, just as someone who values poems and fiction, I urge you to share something! Though of course, no need to worry about it either. It's not that big a deal.Originally Posted by disastermouse
Also, the idea that we have to find new forms and images and metaphors: this is essentially (at least in the West) the time in the art (literature) world called Modernism (1890-1930s) and then Post-Modernism. There's actually been, along with tons of experimental writing, a huge push back in the last thirty or forty years toward older forms. And this isn't to say that we're not meant to find new images and explore and invent, but as Willow says, this exploration always goes on with a strong association and appreciation of the past - the place where the new and old meet.
In any case, I apologize for the literary history. Back to the cushion for me!
Gassho,
Alan
Hi Alan - I have always enjoyed poetry - both reading and writing it - so I'm with you on this.
... but just wanted to clarify - when I said about finding a personal metaphor I wasn't really thinking about
tradition ( and movements within literature/poetry/art etc).
I was thinking more of the freshness of the equivalent of 'beginners mind'.
... if that makes any sense?
Gassho
Willow
That makes absolute sense. And I agree with you, but with a difference. Sometimes, to me, beginner's mind can also be a reach back into the past. Anyway, I was just coming at it from a different angle. Also, living in the kind of writing world I sometimes live in, the "need" for originality, uniqueness, and experimentation gets a little stale in my opinion. To me, whether the form is old or new, whether the subject is old or new, what matters is the way in which the language unfolds: in clarity and simplicity (not simpleness). If the poem/writing is able to convey some complex truth or emotion in a precise, simplistic way, then: a bell resounding in and through me. Old form, new form, old images, new images, whatever; each and all beginner's mind; if clarity and simplicity ring through the thing, that's it.Originally Posted by willow
Gassho,
Alan
Bulls are just bulls,
Mirrors are just mirrors,
more I dont know.
_()_
Myoku (the un-poet)
Two bulls meet
And enter the stream.
The reflection of the stream
Is the bull's drinking.
Two bulls drinking:
PS: I like the verses above. Gassho. Myozan.
Just loooooooooooooooooooooooooove it!
gassho
T,
Two bulls - empty stream
horns lock
eyes lock
reflected gaze
into infinity
Gassho
Willow
(those bulls have taken up residence in my head :shock: )
And where are the students?
And what do you teach them?
To carry water, or to shit words?
Gassho
W
Zen is not a dualistic religion. We can do both!Originally Posted by will
Chet
lolOriginally Posted by disastermouse
Can we?
Are you sure?!
Gassho
W
the two bulls are one,
The river is one,
All in harmony in the moment of one.
My englisch is not that good,
so maybe it reflect not what i want too
:twisted:
I just had an experience that made me think of the 2 bulls. When I was taking my dogs out, I noticed a spider hanging on a single web-strand from a tree. The only reason I noticed it was because it contrasted with the other "things". When I took my second dog out, I tried to look for just it, and everything melded together as I tried to do this. It was of no use, it was on a backdrop of dark greenery from a bush about 20 or 30 feet away. But then the wind came and it swayed again to where I could distinguish it.
There or not, I don't know.
Gassho,
Risho
the two bulls
are not two
but don't confuse them.
justs riffing..
Hi Kojip,
Beautiful non-dual jewel
gassho
T.
Love that Kojip!
Gassho
Myozan
The two bulls
I have stepped in it
A mound of shit
Lotus flower
Gassho
Yugen
Two-bulls-are-the-river,
The wind is breathing them,
I'm thirsty as well.
Ahh, poetry! Unpretentious but good! :wink:Originally Posted by disastermouse
Grace wrote
Ahh, poetry! Unpretentious but good!
I'll second that Grace 8)
Willow
Originally Posted by Graceleejenkins
just testing that I've finally sussed how to do the re-quote
so this one should have the correct smilie !
Willow
Are bulls just bulls?
Or the whole of the flowing river
The mirror is just bull
/Pontus
The bulls are breeding! Nicely.
Gassho
Myozan
breeding bulls?Originally Posted by Myozan Kodo
but what happened to the
cows? :lol:
:lol: We cows? :wink: According to Rich in another thread, finish line dogma, "find the Holy Cow in the Holy Now." Gassho, Grace.Originally Posted by gongli
As long as there's love!Originally Posted by gongli
/Pontus