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Thread: There is No-Self ... or is there?

  1. #51

    Re: There is No-Self ... or is there?

    Dear Shokai,

    I did indeed mean potent. A noticeable shift takes place in my awareness every time I let those words point me beyond and inside their meaning.

    Gassho,

    Hans Chudo Mongen

  2. #52
    Treeleaf Unsui Shokai's Avatar
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    Re: There is No-Self ... or is there?

    Hans;
    I get your meaning. The question was rhetoric, I get a similar response and submit poignant as well:
    poign·ant ?[poin-yuhnt, poi-nuhnt] (adjective):

    1. keenly distressing to the feelings: poignant regret.
    2. keen or strong in mental appeal: a subject of poignant interest.
    3. affecting or moving the emotions: a poignant scene.

    4. pungent to the smell: poignant cooking odors.
    or as Fugen would say, "It's all good" 8)

  3. #53

    There is No-Self ... or is there?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shokai
    Sorry Pontus, i mis-read your koan as "the Lion's Rear" :shock: :lol: :lol:

    Well, someone recently shared the wisdom of turning to one's ass instead of the brain for the truth, so why not a lion's ass!

    Gassho,
    Pontus

  4. #54

    Re: There is No-Self ... or is there?

    This reminds me of a dokusan I had with a teacher in the Kwan Um School once. I hope it is useful to others:

    KK JDPSM: Do you have any questions?
    Me: I have been thinking a lot about karma and non-self lately. If there is no self, who is subject to the law of karma?
    KK JDPSM: KK JDPSM points at my left hand with his teacher's stick. If there is no self, who is wearing that ring?
    Me: silence
    I would have hoped this would have ended with "Upon hearing this, Sam was enlightened" but it didn't work out that way!

  5. #55
    Treeleaf Unsui Shokai's Avatar
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    Re: There is No-Self ... or is there?

    :lol: :lol:

  6. #56

    Re: There is No-Self ... or is there?

    Quote Originally Posted by SonofRage
    This reminds me of a dokusan I had with a teacher in the Kwan Um School once. I hope it is useful to others:

    KK JDPSM: Do you have any questions?
    Me: I have been thinking a lot about karma and non-self lately. If there is no self, who is subject to the law of karma?
    KK JDPSM: KK JDPSM points at my left hand with his teacher's stick. If there is no self, who is wearing that ring?
    Me: silence
    I would have hoped this would have ended with "Upon hearing this, Sam was enlightened" but it didn't work out that way!
    :mrgreen:

    I always remember something Red Pine wrote in his Heart Sutra book, "it's not that there is NO self, it's that there is no INDEPENDENT self."

    Of course you exist. But... not really :P

  7. #57

    Re: There is No-Self ... or is there?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaishin
    I always remember something Red Pine wrote in his Heart Sutra book, "it's not that there is NO self, it's that there is no INDEPENDENT self."

    Of course you exist. But... not really :P
    We are passing ripples on the flowing rivers surface ... who may know we are the ripples, but often miss the river flowing flowing flowing.

    Or maybe I am just all wet! :?

    Gassho, J

  8. #58
    Treeleaf Unsui Shokai's Avatar
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    Re: There is No-Self ... or is there?

    Either way, you flow back to the ocean. _/_

  9. #59

    Re: There is No-Self ... or is there?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shokai
    Either way, you flow back to the ocean. _/_
    Which accepts all waters, indiscriminately!

  10. #60

    Re: There is No-Self ... or is there?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaishin
    Quote Originally Posted by Shokai
    Either way, you flow back to the ocean. _/_
    Which accepts all waters, indiscriminately!
    And then one could say something very 'Zen' (my job description, actually 8) ) ... such as asking what accepts the ocean indiscriminately!?

    Every drop of water, of course, and every ripple holds the whole ocean with room to spare! And you, a swimming (hopefully, not drowning) being holds the whole ocean in every stroke.

    And what holds and is held by all that indiscriminately?

    Master Keizan's Zazenyojinki says ...

    Our mind is like the ocean water, our body, like the waves. Just as there is not a single wave outside the ocean waters, not a drop of water exists outside waves. The water and waves are not different; action and inaction do not differ. ... Pure water has neither front nor back. In a clear sky there is essentially no inside and out side. Like them - transparent and clear - zazen shines brightly by itself.

    Is there but one ocean, or seven seas, or countless oceans? It is everywhere, nothing hidden. Master Dogen quotes this poem by Xuedou in Tenzo Kyokun ...

    "One, seven, three, five.
    What you search for cannot be grasped.
    As the night deepens,
    the moon [of enlightenment] brightens over the ocean.
    The moon, the black dragon's jewel,
    is found in every wave.
    Looking for the moon,
    it is here in this wave
    and the next."


    Gassho, J

  11. #61
    Treeleaf Unsui Shokai's Avatar
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    Re: There is No-Self ... or is there?

    Thank you Kaishin and Jundo !

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