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Thread: A few thoughts about recurring threads

  1. #51

    Re: A few thoughts about recurring threads

    Quote Originally Posted by chicanobudista
    Quote Originally Posted by disastermouse
    As people float in and out of here, I see a few repeating themes come up that I thought we might discuss. Feel free to add and comment.

    Vegetarianism vs omnivorism:
    Rebirth:
    Challenge the teacher!
    I NEED an answer!!/Just sit!
    Not trying to question the original intent of this thread, but....these repeating themes keep recurring because they are part and parcel of Buddhist thought/beliefs/etc. Some of these were even present at the time of the Buddha (Rebirth for example) or at the "foundation" of what we call Ch'an. Even if we step away from the historical context, visit any Buddhist forum and there they are. These themes not appearing on a Zen Buddhist forum is like the theme of the designated hitter not appearing in a baseball forum would be out of the norm. :mrgreen: :mrgreen: Heck, I would be surprised if these themes did *not* appear!

  2. #52
    disastermouse
    Guest

    Re: A few thoughts about recurring threads

    Quote Originally Posted by Jundo
    Quote Originally Posted by disastermouse

    You disappoint me, Jundo. You don't think there's any point to considering why certain topics foster messed up group dynamics?
    Hi Chet,

    I simply do not believe that we are having any much "mess" with group dynamics around here, including with regard to the important topics you listed. Folks tend to have very civil and solid talks on those subjects, filled with much insight and wisdom and real life experience.

    In fact, your making this thread to say there is a "mess" created the issue where there is not much of one. Seemed to me a little that you were away for many weeks, then suddenly wanted to "stir up" something a bit? Am I wrong? Over the years, you have done that.

    Gassho, J
    Hmmm,

    Sorry that you think of me that way.

    I haven't so much been away from Trealeaf as I've just been away from my practice in general. As I've started to come back to it, I'm back at the sangha.

    I never said it was a 'mess' - it's just....I think it's part of what causes so much criticism of an online sangha - although I think these log jams come up in 'non-line' sanghas as well. We can be so mean and petty to one another. I personally have at times placed far more importance on being seen as insightful or intelligent - or on trying to sway someone to my way of seeing things - than on getting to the heart of the matter.

    Part of it's likely personal for me as well. The arguments themselves don't much interest me....but the dynamic behind the way the arguments play out - something in it speaks to me about the causes of suffering. How much of these arguments has more to do with 'self' preservation than getting at the heart of things? Why do we do that? Should we stop? Can we stop?

    Chet

  3. #53
    disastermouse
    Guest

    Re: A few thoughts about recurring threads

    I think I've just been thinking about conflict and drama a lot lately...I started a possible novel at the beginning of the month where most human conflict had ended...it was very difficult to write! Something in us perpetuates conflict and drama. We want what we don't have or we feel like we have to defend our positions - and sometimes our positions don't even come from ourselves! They're just things we absorb and come to identify with.

    I mean - I've been gone for a while but....for instance, the commercialization of Zen is something that really pisses off Hans. It REALLY gets under his skin in a way it doesn't for most of us. I really seem to oppose scientific materialism. The reduction of internal experiences to external processes without remainder really triggers something in me. Why??

    Why do we fight? What is the infernal hiccup that causes us to keep doing this shit to ourselves and others again and again and again and again and again and....?

    Chet

  4. #54

    Re: A few thoughts about recurring threads

    Right on with that one. I can be very argumentative. Taking a stand can sometimes reify an idea of a separate self. I feel that anyhow and interestingly I think that is a lesson from this week's precept: putting others down while raising ourselves.

    It is very tiring but I catch myself doing it habitually.

  5. #55
    Senior Member kirkmc's Avatar
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    Re: A few thoughts about recurring threads

    Quote Originally Posted by disastermouse
    I think I've just been thinking about conflict and drama a lot lately...I started a possible novel at the beginning of the month where most human conflict had ended...it was very difficult to write! Something in us perpetuates conflict and drama. We want what we don't have or we feel like we have to defend our positions - and sometimes our positions don't even come from ourselves! They're just things we absorb and come to identify with.

    I mean - I've been gone for a while but....for instance, the commercialization of Zen is something that really pisses off Hans. It REALLY gets under his skin in a way it doesn't for most of us. I really seem to oppose scientific materialism. The reduction of internal experiences to external processes without remainder really triggers something in me. Why??

    Why do we fight? What is the infernal hiccup that causes us to keep doing this shit to ourselves and others again and again and again and again and again and....?

    Chet
    First of all, conflict doesn't have to be negative. Conflict can be problems to resolve; it doesn't have to be people who fight and disagree.

    On your second point, I've been in some of the threads where you argue butt-headedly. In my opinion, people who argue like that are convinced that they are right, and allow no possibility that they may be wrong, but feel so right that they get insulted if anyone questions them. I've found that I learn a lot more from understanding other people's opinions than from fighting for my own.

  6. #56
    disastermouse
    Guest

    Re: A few thoughts about recurring threads

    Quote Originally Posted by kirkmc
    Quote Originally Posted by disastermouse
    I think I've just been thinking about conflict and drama a lot lately...I started a possible novel at the beginning of the month where most human conflict had ended...it was very difficult to write! Something in us perpetuates conflict and drama. We want what we don't have or we feel like we have to defend our positions - and sometimes our positions don't even come from ourselves! They're just things we absorb and come to identify with.

    I mean - I've been gone for a while but....for instance, the commercialization of Zen is something that really pisses off Hans. It REALLY gets under his skin in a way it doesn't for most of us. I really seem to oppose scientific materialism. The reduction of internal experiences to external processes without remainder really triggers something in me. Why??

    Why do we fight? What is the infernal hiccup that causes us to keep doing this shit to ourselves and others again and again and again and again and again and....?

    Chet
    First of all, conflict doesn't have to be negative. Conflict can be problems to resolve; it doesn't have to be people who fight and disagree.

    On your second point, I've been in some of the threads where you argue butt-headedly. In my opinion, people who argue like that are convinced that they are right, and allow no possibility that they may be wrong, but feel so right that they get insulted if anyone questions them. I've found that I learn a lot more from understanding other people's opinions than from fighting for my own.
    This is kind of what I'm talking about. You've seen me argue butt-headedly? What good is that? Better if you see yourself argue butt-headedly, no?

    We all argue like that sometimes, but I'm not just talking about that.

    Chet

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