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Thread: Nihilism

  1. #1

    Nihilism

    Wouldn't the "idea" of nihilism, of a nothingness, be also a full "part" of the totality of becoming interdependent arising? I say "part" lightly since language is generally used to imply reifcated ideas are a absolute construct. No conclusive point of a thereness or non-thereness of anything can be made since there is no conclusive point that can be made of the selfness of anything, a person-self, a rose-self, or in this case, a nihilism-self. Nihilists "or" Materialists are fully "part" of a "true self". Form is emptiness, "nihilistic view on existence is emptiness". "materialistic view on existence is emptiness", both statements would be "true" due to no ultimate dualistic barriers that separate "them" in a borderless interdependent arising.

    Even holding the reification of a idea, the rigid belief of a conceptual essence is emptiness, no?

  2. #2

    Re: Nihilism

    Woul you like a cup of tea?


    Gassho


    T.

  3. #3

    Re: Nihilism

    Yes, empty that teacup!

    Rather than overly philosophizing and analyzing "nihilism" or "materialism" or "emptiness" etc ... experience this, live this, dance this!

    Otherwise it is a bit like philosophizing on the relationship of water and wetness and waves to the ocean ... rather than just sailing or swimming as the sea. Too many thoughts and too much analysis can sometimes help, but often just muddies the waters. Perhaps your detailed analysis here is more the latter case?

    Gassho, J

  4. #4

    Re: Nihilism

    dang..it went there.. xD

    noted, moving right along...

    Cheers,
    Greg

  5. #5
    Treeleaf Unsui Yugen's Avatar
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    Re: Nihilism

    Greg,
    Read Nishitani Keiji's book Religion and Nothingness - it is the culmination of the Kyoto school's dance with 19th century European existentialist and nihilist philosophers and attempt to reconcile their work with Buddhist philopsophy.

    I am not a teacher so I feel free to suggest irresponsible intellectual activities that tie one's mind up in knots and endless internal dialogue - I then hit the cushion to untie them!! :wink: Or I should say I create the flow of mind chatter that I then "observe" during zazen! (Sorry J and T - just being playful)

    gassho,
    Yugen

  6. #6

    Re: Nihilism

    Yugen,

    You make a good point, plenty of storyline to watch already...It's so tempting to add fuel to the fire.

  7. #7

    Re: Nihilism

    and yes Jundo, I did want to talk about such "relationships" in hopes that chasing down this thought would "help". Neurosis is a habbit.. xD

  8. #8

    Re: Nihilism

    Quote Originally Posted by Jundo
    Yes, empty that teacup!

    Rather than overly philosophizing and analyzing "nihilism" or "materialism" or "emptiness" etc ... experience this, live this, dance this!

    Otherwise it is a bit like philosophizing on the relationship of water and wetness and waves to the ocean ... rather than just sailing or swimming as the sea. Too many thoughts and too much analysis can sometimes help, but often just muddies the waters. Perhaps your detailed analysis here is more the latter case?

    Gassho, J
    ..act on it?

    Cheers,
    Greg

  9. #9

    Re: Nihilism

    Quote Originally Posted by Sleeps

    ..act on it?

    Cheers,
    Greg
    Sit for now, philosophize little ... study in small doses. Put Zazen into Practice!

    Otherwise, it is like a fellow who comes to swimming school and, instead of getting in the water and learning the strokes, spends too much time debating the wetness of water, reading books on the science of flotation, pondering the philosophy of swimming or whether swimmers should eat meat.

    There is a time for that, and a little philosophizing is fine, but mostly "dive into the cushion", listen carefully what the swimming instructors and experienced fellow swimmers are saying about swimming laps 'to the other side' 8) of the pool. Have ears open, mind open ... but mouth mostly closed, lest water get in and one chokes. 8) In doing so, many of one's questions on the wetness of water etc. will be resolved.

    Gassho, Jundo

  10. #10

    Re: Nihilism

    alright then.

    Cheers,
    Greg

  11. #11
    disastermouse
    Guest

    Re: Nihilism

    Quote Originally Posted by Sleeps
    Wouldn't the "idea" of nihilism, of a nothingness, be also a full "part" of the totality of becoming interdependent arising? I say "part" lightly since language is generally used to imply reifcated ideas are a absolute construct. No conclusive point of a thereness or non-thereness of anything can be made since there is no conclusive point that can be made of the selfness of anything, a person-self, a rose-self, or in this case, a nihilism-self. Nihilists "or" Materialists are fully "part" of a "true self". Form is emptiness, "nihilistic view on existence is emptiness". "materialistic view on existence is emptiness", both statements would be "true" due to no ultimate dualistic barriers that separate "them" in a borderless interdependent arising.

    Even holding the reification of a idea, the rigid belief of a conceptual essence is emptiness, no?
    Most 'wrong views' are wrong because of their incompleteness. That is - they're true as far as they go but they don't go all the way.

    But like Taigu said, have some tea. You can't think your way into awakening - but what's under the thinking? Taste the tea, don't describe it.

  12. #12

    Re: Nihilism

    Quote Originally Posted by disastermouse
    Quote Originally Posted by Sleeps
    Wouldn't the "idea" of nihilism, of a nothingness, be also a full "part" of the totality of becoming interdependent arising? I say "part" lightly since language is generally used to imply reifcated ideas are a absolute construct. No conclusive point of a thereness or non-thereness of anything can be made since there is no conclusive point that can be made of the selfness of anything, a person-self, a rose-self, or in this case, a nihilism-self. Nihilists "or" Materialists are fully "part" of a "true self". Form is emptiness, "nihilistic view on existence is emptiness". "materialistic view on existence is emptiness", both statements would be "true" due to no ultimate dualistic barriers that separate "them" in a borderless interdependent arising.

    Even holding the reification of a idea, the rigid belief of a conceptual essence is emptiness, no?
    Most 'wrong views' are wrong because of their incompleteness. That is - they're true as far as they go but they don't go all the way.

    But like Taigu said, have some tea. You can't think your way into awakening - but what's under the thinking? Taste the tea, don't describe it.
    Cheers on that sir, "Most 'wrong views' are wrong because of their incompleteness. That is - they're true as far as they go but they don't go all the way." that's the wedge that keeps my cynicism from fully hitting the tarmac.

    Regards,
    Greg

  13. #13

    Re: Nihilism

    Sleeps, what do you take "emptiness" to mean?

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