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Thread: not judging

  1. #1
    Blue Mountain White Clouds Hermitage Priest Taigu's Avatar
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    not judging

    As I witnessed a drunk couple fighting yesterday in a train station of Kobe, the girl ended up thrown on the tarmac (rare sight in Japan...). I happened to be witnessing the whole thing for a good four minutes. It reminded me of a great thing we could all commit ourselves during this ango: not judging. Or at least be aware of how often, how much, how quickly our mind is prompt to decide who is who. This would very naturally nurture a more subtle, flexible and fluid mind.

    gassho


    Taigu

  2. #2

    Re: not judging

    I think in some ways, judging is hardwired into our system...a kind of survival of the fittest aspect to human nature. Realizing how often and minimizing the amount of judging I do will be a goal of mine.

  3. #3

    Re: not judging

    Gassho,

    We construct a whole world of our own making around a single moment. How little we actually know is amazing.

    Flowing flowing flowing

  4. #4

    Re: not judging

    Thanks Taigu,
    reminds me of nurturing seeds, one of my major tasks during Ango. And yes,
    I even judge my tea as being to cold to be tasty, ts ts ts ...
    _()_
    Peter

  5. #5
    Treeleaf Unsui Shokai's Avatar
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    Re: not judging

    Did anyone attempt to assist in her distress?? :roll:

  6. #6
    Blue Mountain White Clouds Hermitage Priest Taigu's Avatar
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    Re: not judging

    Indeed,Shokai, two people did. Two women. In Japan, a man helping a woman out of the blue is a bit weird...And for once I gave up my shining armour for the role of witness. Loving and caring witness for both of them, and all of us.
    Thank you for asking.


    gassho


    Taigu

  7. #7
    Blue Mountain White Clouds Hermitage Priest Taigu's Avatar
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    Re: not judging

    By the way...It is really important guys, you are all excited about Dharma big ideas and would be philosophical stuff...
    No judging is the core of our practice.
    If there is one direction I would give my students it is this one. Not exciting. Not thrilling. Not rocking.
    Sorry to disappoint an it is what Dharma is about.

    Not knowing, not judging.

    from Issa:

    in holy Jizo's lap
    squatting, croaking
    a frog




    gassho


    Taigu

  8. #8

    Re: not judging

    We rarely see what's infront of us, we tend to see only our thoughts and projections about what is in front of us... Not knowing, not judging.... To step away from our thinking patterns and just to look and see... Like our practice... See a thought let it pass... Take this with you into everyday life.... See a thought about something let it pass....

  9. #9

    Re: not judging

    Taigu,

    Might it also be true that there can be action in non-judgement? Yes, sometimes we give up the shining armor but isn't there no shining armor to begin with? If someone falls down, we act without thought of "That person on the ground" and "me the knight in shining armor". Just me on the ground with me helping myself up and moving in both directions. No selfish desire for that glory of the savior.

    Quote Originally Posted by Seiryu
    We rarely see what's infront of us, we tend to see only our thoughts and projections about what is in front of us... Not knowing, not judging.... To step away from our thinking patterns and just to look and see... Like our practice... See a thought let it pass... Take this with you into everyday life.... See a thought about something let it pass....
    I think this is important, but even more important not to fall into stagnation of "Oh, no judgement, let it pass" when things REALLY need to be done. Maybe I'm complicating a simple point, but I'm not sure if that's the case. I believe that we can simultaneously not assign all of our complicated BS to a situation and still manage to help if help is needed. Completely content in whatever arises.

    But just a few thoughts.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Hoyu's Avatar
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    Re: not judging

    Quote Originally Posted by Taigu
    As I witnessed a drunk couple fighting yesterday in a train station of Kobe
    One of the many undesirable traits alcohol bestows upon us. Which is why I avoid it altogether!

    O God, that men should put an enemy in their mouths to steal away their brains! that we should, with joy, pleasance, revel, and applause, transform ourselves into beasts!* ~William Shakespeare, Othello
    Gassho,
    John

  11. #11
    Blue Mountain White Clouds Hermitage Priest Taigu's Avatar
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    Re: not judging

    Yes, I was expecting this...something like...Why did'nt you help this poor woman? What on earth did you do not doing anything?
    Judging. Our poison. Our drunken state.

    Now, a simple invitation : let us look at ourselves and the ten thousand judging thoughts we generate every day.

    In this case, non action was true action. And what took place in my gentle witnessing confirmed this. My clumsy gaijin ( a word which means foreign in Japanese) intervention would have caused more trouble than help. The girl was shaky but fine (having two Japanese women helping her), the boy really sorry and scarred at what he did (he was also trying to help her and show her compassion).

    And to be honest, I am getting tired of this, because this empty forum is filled with opinions and thoughts and this and that...

    NO MIND !


    gassho

    Taigu


    Taigu

  12. #12

    Re: not judging

    Gassho Taigu,

    If I came across that way, I apologize, it was not my intention. No judging on your action, really! I suppose more so what I was getting at was the fact that action can be taken in the heart of non-judging. No good guys and bad guys. No me no you. All embraced in not-knowing-not-judging-fluid-act-when-acting-sit-when sitting mind. The giant blanket of BIG MIND.

    Action non-action (not INACTION, no such thing), not one not two.

    Something more like that, I think is what I was getting at. Pardon clumsy words.

  13. #13
    Blue Mountain White Clouds Hermitage Priest Taigu's Avatar
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    Re: not judging

    I totally agree with you, Taylor. Action-non-action is not inaction.
    Every situation is different.

    gassho

    Taigu

  14. #14
    Senior Member Ekai's Avatar
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    Re: not judging

    Letting go of our judgements allows us to respond with compassion instead of our knee-jerk reaction. It is dangerous when we quickly assume what we think is true without knowing the details of any situation.

    It is also important to let of our self-judgements. How can we expect to let go of judging others if we are constantly judging ourselves? However, I admit that self-judging is something I need and have working on.

    Thanks,
    Jodi

  15. #15

    Re: not judging

    Great topic!

    Oops...

    Seriously, gassho for this discussion.

  16. #16
    Senior Member Shujin's Avatar
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    Re: not judging

    Some very humbling teachings in this thread. Thank you Taigu, and all.

    gassho,
    Shujin

  17. #17
    Senior Member Nenka's Avatar
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    Re: not judging

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor
    I believe that we can simultaneously not assign all of our complicated BS to a situation and still manage to help if help is needed. Completely content in whatever arises.
    Gassho.

    Jen

  18. #18

    Re: not judging

    Thanks Sensei Taigu for this real-life teaching.
    I feel that precepts and behavior-rules may be teached like all in martial arts: if it is not lived, it is not learned. And we learn first in the skin of others (seeing) and after this in our own skin (practicing).

    Please let me to share this remarkable teaching of Sensei Joko Beck, guiding us to don´t judge in our every day life:
    "Whenever we say a person's name, notice whether we have stated more than a fact. For example, the judgment, "she's thoughtless" goes beyond the facts "she said she'd call me and she didn't." Joko-Nothing Special

    Gassho and thanks again
    Senryu
    Lima, Perú

  19. #19

    Re: not judging

    Quote Originally Posted by senryu
    Please let me to share this remarkable teaching of Sensei Joko Beck, guiding us to don´t judge in our every day life:
    "Whenever we say a person's name, notice whether we have stated more than a fact. For example, the judgment, "she's thoughtless" goes beyond the facts "she said she'd call me and she didn't." Joko-Nothing Special
    Yes! This act of separating description of behavior from judgment of intention is a critical aspect of assessing the development of young children (I run a preschool). A related component is what we call "behavior mapping" or "observing comments," in which we share those descriptions with children to help them be self-aware, something that's very difficult for the three- to five-year-old set. Of course, that sort of compassionate speech can also be helpful for the non-self-aware older crowd!

  20. #20
    Blue Mountain White Clouds Hermitage Priest Taigu's Avatar
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    Re: not judging

    Senryu, excellent point...we all are such drama queens and we love ( at least, i do) exagerating and taking thoughts and patterns to the extreme. Practice is about being increasingly aware of these little triggers and daily assumptions, to open our eyes to the extent of our deluded life, but unllike some people who would take the burden to a priest or confess to the Supreme God, we just take responsability and bring everything back to this non- judgemental space of sitting- being.


    Gassho

    Taigu

  21. #21

    Re: not judging

    IMHO, judgement has to do with ego, "look at what that person is doing, or wearing....etc". As was stated before they are projections of our mind and our bias. If we take time to look from another's point of view, we might find a different outlook, a different way of doing or seeing things. We can all learn from each other. Easy to say....hard to put into practice.

    Gassho,

    Matt

  22. #22
    Treeleaf Unsui/Engineer Kyonin's Avatar
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    Re: not judging

    So hard to let judgement go and just accept reality.

    As of late I have been increasingly aware of this and try to be mindful of when it's happening. I just take note and try to let judgments go and flow.

    Makes life easier indeed.

    Thank you, Taigu. Great teaching.

  23. #23

    Re: not judging

    Thanks Sensei Taigu and all friends for the teachings.
    Have a nice Everyday´s Zen
    Gassho
    Sen

  24. #24

    Re: not judging

    Hmmm. Don’t know.

    Refraining from “judging” is not as hard for me as making a decision when to act or not act. The woman could have hit her head when pushed and been seriously injured or even kiled. Could have, didn’t. Or if someone intervened, the situation could have escalated to where someone was seriously hurt. Didn’t happen. I tell my young teenage nephews that in a fight, it only takes a split second for something to happen that was not intended but that could change lives forever.

    When to act and when not? Gassho, Grace.

  25. #25
    Senior Member Nindo's Avatar
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    Re: not judging

    Quote Originally Posted by Taigu
    No judging is the core of our practice.
    If there is one direction I would give my students it is this one. Not exciting. Not thrilling. Not rocking.
    Thank you. This resonates deeply with me. I recently realized that I inherited a certain viewpoint towards people (for lack of a better word) from my family. It is actually quite complex, an approach to others very much based in judging. It is like a pair of lenses that are there constantly. When I noticed this was happening, it was probably the first time I really understood what "conditioning" means. This is a really hard thing to practice with, because it is so subtle. It seems to be hard-wired and below the surface, not like anger or other emotions that are quite obvious and easily noticed.

    We rarely see what's in front of us, we tend to see only our thoughts and projections about what is in front of us...
    I guess that's what I'm trying to say... but we so often take the projections for the truth! The stepping away part can only start once you realize there is a projection!

    Anyway, I've been noticing the judging more often since. This is a very important practice indeed. "Just avoid picking and choosing." Thank you, Taigu.

  26. #26
    Senior Member Nenka's Avatar
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    Re: not judging

    Quote Originally Posted by Graceleejenkins
    Hmmm. Don’t know.

    Refraining from “judging” is not as hard for me as making a decision when to act or not act. The woman could have hit her head when pushed and been seriously injured or even kiled. Could have, didn’t. Or if someone intervened, the situation could have escalated to where someone was seriously hurt. Didn’t happen. I tell my young teenage nephews that in a fight, it only takes a split second for something to happen that was not intended but that could change lives forever.

    When to act and when not? Gassho, Grace.
    I had the same concerns as you. Actually, I was recently reading about a woman in Chicago who was knocked down on an elevated train platform as some guy was running off with passenger's stolen ipod. She fell down the stairs, hit her head, and was killed. The incident couldn't help but affect my reading of Taigu's story . . . but as I understand it, the woman in this case was receiving help from two bystanders the whole time, the guy apparently regretted his behavior instantly, and although we could just judge this couple as a pair of drunks, their situation is probably more complicated than that, as all our stories are.

    But yeah, it's a question . . . "When to act and when not?"

    Gassho

    Jen

  27. #27
    Senior Member AlanLa's Avatar
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    Re: not judging

    HaHa, this chatterbox place cracks me up so much I have to take a hiatus periodically, as I have been, but then I decide to check in and see that my pal Taigu has posted a thread about "not judging," so I read it and see judgment after judgment after judgment after judgment, and even more judgments even after he posted that it was judgment after judgement and so on.... Cracks me up :roll:

    Of course, this is also a judgment. Do you see it? Do you see yourself?

    Later, folks...................

  28. #28

    Re: not judging

    I see and I don't see.
    I see the faults in another; the course of action that one should take.
    I don't always see why the error I supposed was so familiar; so intimate to me.
    But then I know and I don't know.
    I know "not judging" is the compassionate course.
    I don't know why knowing this seldom saves me.
    So many things like this to work on. So little time.

  29. #29
    Blue Mountain White Clouds Hermitage Priest Taigu's Avatar
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    Re: not judging

    Just one thing at a time. One step at a time, Engyo.
    If we want to fix everything, get it right: it doesn't work.
    Knowing something doesn't really help. The doing of it is the way.
    Just wake up to a single delusion at a time. Give a single smile. Say just one word.
    This will be plenty. Really vast is a glass of water, or a pair of shoes.


    gassho


    Taigu

  30. #30

    Re: not judging

    Thank you for the tea.
    Gassho,
    Engyo

  31. #31

    Re: not judging

    This thread is certainly an object lesson of sorts--one can try to discern through what is judging, no judging, questioning, no-questioning, broadening, narrowing, starting or stopping--all good practice as some old fool I've come to know at Tea Parties would say! Gassho, Grace.

  32. #32

    Re: not judging

    Not exciting. Not thrilling. Not rocking.
    _()_ fluid, open & ordinary - I will try to keep it so. Thanks Taigu for this observation.

  33. #33
    Treeleaf Unsui Shokai's Avatar
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    Re: not judging

    To do, not two dew.
    I know, I don't no.
    I see, I don't sea.
    No eye, no no(se).
    mu.

    _/_

  34. #34

    Re: not judging

    Quote Originally Posted by Shokai
    To do, not two dew.
    I know, I don't no.
    I see, I don't sea.
    No eye, no no(se).
    mu.

    _/_
    Shokai, I absolutely love this poem!! Gassho, Grace.

  35. #35
    Treeleaf Unsui Shokai's Avatar
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    Re: not judging

    _/_

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