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  1. #1

    SIT-A-LONG with JUNDO: Knocking Down Monastery Walls

    .
    I often feel that monastic practice is so "yesterday" ... so "13th Century".It's true, and in some very important ways, it may be time to knock down the monasteries, throwing their cloistered inhabitants into the streets! **

    For most of its history, lay practice has taken a back seat to the "real spiritual action" said to happen only among the ordained Sangha, usually behind monastery walls. However, this no longer need be the case.

    I in no way intend to deny the beauty and power of the monastic path for those called that way. There are depths and lessons to be encountered and awakened to and lived in that simple life, in the silence, in the sincere effort and routine. So much of that may not be easily perceived in the noise and distraction of an "in the world" practice. (Although, in my view, stillness is stillness, and the very same stillness can be encountered "out in the world" with a bit of diligence and attention to day-to-day life). I do not in any way intend to discount the importance of monastic practice for some folks ... and at appropriate times and doses for all of us.

    However, there is also a beauty and power in paths of practice outside monastery walls that may be unavailable to those within the walls, with lay practice having depths and opportunities for awakening all its own. There are aspects of an "in the world" practice that are denied to those following a monastic way. There are depths and lessons of practice that can be encountered and awakened to only out in the city streets, in our work places, families, raising kids. Where is the Dharma not present?

    Lay practice now is not the same as lay practice has been in centuries past.

    One vital reason for monasteries and the like ... from the earliest days of Buddhism ... was an absence of other chances for communication with teachers and fellow practitioners, and a lack of other means to encounter "live teachings". In other words, wandering ascetics walking hither and thither in the Buddha's time needed to gather during the rainy seasons to "touch base" and reconnect with the group after being on their own for weeks and months. In the middle ages in China and Japan, one could not easily encounter a Buddhist teacher, teachings and opportunities to practice without going to live full time in a monastery. This is just no longer the case. Members of our Treeleaf Sangha, for example, can have 24 hour contact, using modern means of communication, with teachers, teachings, sittings, robe sewing, Sutra and Text study, sharing with fellow practitioners times of sickness and health and smiles and tears, Samu, spiritual friendships, "sharp stones crashing into each other" ... much of which, until the current times, was denied to people outside monastery walls.

    In some important ways, sincere lay practitioners today may enjoy better surrounding circumstances for practice than did the average monk in, for example, Dogen's day. Things in the "Golden Age" were not so golden as we too easily romanticize. Most monks back then were half-educated (even in Buddhism), semi-literate (or what passed for literacy in those times), superstition driven, narrow folks who may have understood less about the traditions and teachings they were following ... their history and meaning and depth ... than we now know. The conditions for practice within old temples and monasteries might have been less than ideal, many teachers less than ideal, despite our idealization of the old timers. Studying Sutras by smoky oil lamp, living one's days out in Japan or Tibet while having no real information grasp on China and India and the customs of prior centuries, living in a world of rumor and magic and misunderstanding (in which all kinds of myths and stories and superstitions were taken as explanations for how the world works), unable to access a modern Buddhist library, or to "Google" a reliable source (emphasis on making sure it is reliable however!) to check some point, or to ask a real expert outside one's limited circle, being beholden to only one teacher at a time (no matter how poor a teacher), with no knowledge of the human brain and some very important discoveries of science ... and after all that effort ... getting sick and dying at the age of 40 from some ordinary fever. (Can you even imagine trying to listen to Dogen Zenji recite "live" a Shobogenzo teaching from way across the room ... without a modern microphone and PA system and "Youtube" to let one replay it all? I suppose many never heard a word!)

    The "Good Old Days" were not necessarily the "Good Old Days".

    In contrast, in many ways, the average lay person practicing today has very many better circumstances for practice than those monks in 13th century Eihei-ji. For that reason, it is time to re-evaluate the place and power of lay practice. What was true in the cultures and times of ages past need not be true today!

    Now, we need the monastic way ... and we need the "in the world way" ... supporting each other.

    Yesterday, a fellow posted to our Sangha a comment that:

    the austere training at Eihei-ji ... [may be] required in 'dropping off' body and mind. The effort required to ensure that this is complete, 'dropping off dropping off', is something I think we find difficult in our lives since we live in more comfortable times. Can it be truly 'realised' outside a monastic setting?

    I responded:


    I rather disagree.

    There are hard swimmers and runners, who push themselves to the limit ...

    There are swimmers or runners who go at an easy and balanced pace forward ...

    There are those who float along or stand perfectly still to admire the scenery ...

    ... and in all cases, it is the same ocean or road ... and no place to go.

    Some folks may benefit from a hard practice, getting the hell beat out of them ... pushed along by a tough coach like a marine in boot camp. They may need this for a bit of discipline or to tame the wild bull of the mind. And some may not, encountering the Dharma in silence and stillness.

    However, the answer really is not dependent on how hard we work for it, like a dog chasing its own tail.
    Today’s Sit-A-Long video follows at this link. It is a longer talk (about 30 minutes), part of our July Zazenkai. A short Zazen and Kinhin follow.




    **(figuratively!)

    .
    Last edited by Jundo; 12-16-2016 at 02:59 AM.

  2. #2
    Thank you Jundo

    This thread is deep, and contains some of the most essential ideas of what Treeleaf is about. I can only bow deeply in gratitude and respect. May our practice embody these ideals in full expression of the Dharma.

    Gassho
    Lisa
    sat today

  3. #3
    Still a vibrant thread after all those years with issues that resonant today as well as when we first discussed this.

    Gassho,

    Seishin Kyrill

    Sat with Still Water
    Last edited by Seishin the Elder; 10-22-2015 at 09:06 PM.

  4. #4
    Thanks for bumping this thread back up. I learned a lot from this one.

    Deep bows,
    Matt
    #SatToday

  5. #5
    Some folks in the AZTA and elsewhere, reading the series of several talks in this thread (they are all in here as you scroll down), thought I was literally advocating getting bulldozers and knocking down monasteries, probably with the monks still inside! It was another nail in the coffin in my relationship with some of the folks in the AZTA and SZBA (although they were already quite upset with our online Jukai and Tokudo Ceremonies). Rather conservative, monastery trained folks did not welcome all this.

    However, my point was merely that, historically, monastic training in centuries' past (and even now) has not been all a bed of roses, with positive and negative aspects. The latter do not get pointed out in the idealized "Shangri La" image of monastic practice. Also modern, lay practice can equal or improve upon aspects of traditional training (while at the same time recognizing that, no, it cannot in all ways and there are differences). Different good paths suited to varied walkers.

    Anyway, not the first or last time I will have been in trouble with some traditional folks.

    Gassho, J

    SatToday
    Last edited by Jundo; 10-23-2015 at 01:50 AM.
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  6. #6
    Some folks in the AZTA and elsewhere, reading this, thought I was literally advocating getting bulldozers and knocking down monasteries, probably with the monks still inside! It was another nail in the coffin in my relationship with some of the folks in the AZTA and SZBA (although they were already quite upset with our online Jukai and Tokudo Ceremonies). Rather conservative, monastery trained folks did not welcome all this.

    However, my point was merely that, historically, monastic training in centuries' past (and even now) has not been all a bed of roses, with positive and negative aspects. The latter do not get pointed out in the idealized "Shangri La" image of monastic practice. Also modern, lay practice can equal or improve upon aspects of traditional training (while at the same time recognizing that, no, it cannot in all ways and there are differences).

    Anyway, not the first or last time I will have been in trouble with some traditional folks.

    Gassho, J

    SatToday

    PS - And Father Kyrillos, always a smile from me when you appear.
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  7. #7


    Gassho,
    Onkai
    SatToday

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