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Thread: SIT-A-LONG with JUNDO: Knocking Down Monastery Walls

  1. #51

    Re: SIT-A-LONG with JUNDO: Knocking Down Monastery Walls

    Hi Jundo,

    Thanks for setting things straight on Keizan.

    Lack of the need to regularly perform or rely upon these practices in the west is no doubt attributed to the fact that Zen is not as much of a part of the culture yet. In the future, should Zen be as widely practiced here as in Japan, I'm sure there will be more need/demand for such services. Making it an unavoidable change for our Zen groups as well.
    Jundo wrote:
    When I was back in the city (Ishinomaki) yesterday that suffered 10,000 dead (!!) in the recent Tsunami, I visited a Soto Zen temple there and met briefly the head priest. He had performed so many funeral for his parishioners who had died in the flooding.
    I can't even begin to imagine how mentally and physically exhausting this must be!

    Gassho,
    John

  2. #52
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    Re: SIT-A-LONG with JUNDO: Knocking Down Monastery Walls

    Jundo wrote;
    Funerals are for the living perhaps more than for the departed
    This is exactly true. Ask yourself, 'What does a funeral do for the departed?' The reason we have myths about afterlife is to comfort the living. To think that after we spend all this time worrying, figuring the problems of life, overcoming the agony of defeat, etc, etc, just to end in nothingness is too hard to imagine. Better to hold a ceremony, say good bye and achieve some "closure" than not. And, if pomp and color are what turns your crank, go for it. Call it delusion but it sure soothes the ego and helps us to get on with our lives.

    ( the foregoing is just the view of someone who has attended a significant number of funerals; professionally and otherwise )

    Actually, my favourite was when the grieving family staged an impromtu playing of "Oh Lord won't you buy me a Mercedes Benz"; :shock: the look on the pastor's face was priceless !

  3. #53

    Re: SIT-A-LONG with JUNDO: Knocking Down Monastery Walls

    The SF Zen Center has a recent podcast that I think ties in nicely with Jundo's talk:

    http://www.sfzc.org/zc/display.asp?cati ... ageid=3123

    In it, the teacher forwards the "controversial" view that although the monastery/zendo is a "really good" environment for strong practice, it is *not* the only one, and perhaps lacking in many ways. Other topics touched on include the use of technology to further home practice, such as an iPod app that lets you know how many people all over the world are currently sitting with you at that very moment, SFZC's own ango blog that people at home can use to follow along with dharma talks/schedules, among others.

    A very interesting listen, and one that highlights just how much Treeleaf is on the bleeding edge of such space-time-less practice. It's clear that traditional brick-and-mortar practice centers are more and more incorporating "outreach" technology, as it's clear that especially in the West, integrated practice with a lay life is highly sought after.

    Thanks again to Jundo, Taigu, and the rest of the sangha here for being a model for this still nascent "ground of practice."

    _/_ _/_ _/_ _/_ _/_ _/_ _/_ _/_ _/_

  4. #54

    Re: SIT-A-LONG with JUNDO: Knocking Down Monastery Walls

    Thanks for that Kaishin - half-way through listening. There are some really good downloads on the net.

    Jundo and Taigu, I am amazed at how much information there is on Treeleaf - so much work has gone into this site
    and the effort is much appreciated.

    Gassho

    Willow

  5. #55

    Re: SIT-A-LONG with JUNDO: Knocking Down Monastery Walls

    Treeleaf is an expanding evolving example of breaking down monastery walls in a traditional sense but I heard about this approach on the radio which integrates a sense of practice among members not unlike Treeleaf ( a commitment to daily practice ) but through Christian monastic tradition and a desire to incorporate lay membership.
    http://www.moot.uk.net/

  6. #56
    Thank you Jundo

    This thread is deep, and contains some of the most essential ideas of what Treeleaf is about. I can only bow deeply in gratitude and respect. May our practice embody these ideals in full expression of the Dharma.

    Gassho
    Lisa
    sat today

  7. #57
    Still a vibrant thread after all those years with issues that resonant today as well as when we first discussed this.

    Gassho,

    Seishin Kyrill

    Sat with Still Water
    Last edited by Kyrillos; 10-22-2015 at 10:06 PM.

  8. #58
    Thanks for bumping this thread back up. I learned a lot from this one.

    Deep bows,
    Matt
    #SatToday

  9. #59
    Some folks in the AZTA and elsewhere, reading this, thought I was literally advocating getting bulldozers and knocking down monasteries, probably with the monks still inside! It was another nail in the coffin in my relationship with some of the folks in the AZTA and SZBA (although they were already quite upset with our online Jukai and Tokudo Ceremonies). Rather conservative, monastery trained folks did not welcome all this.

    However, my point was merely that, historically, monastic training in centuries' past (and even now) has not been all a bed of roses, with positive and negative aspects. The latter do not get pointed out in the idealized "Shangri La" image of monastic practice. Also modern, lay practice can equal or improve upon aspects of traditional training (while at the same time recognizing that, no, it cannot in all ways and there are differences).

    Anyway, not the first or last time I will have been in trouble with some traditional folks.

    Gassho, J

    SatToday

    PS - And Father Kyrillos, always a smile from me when you appear.
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

    #SAT TODAY!

  10. #60
    Some folks in the AZTA and elsewhere, reading the series of several talks in this thread (they are all in here as you scroll down), thought I was literally advocating getting bulldozers and knocking down monasteries, probably with the monks still inside! It was another nail in the coffin in my relationship with some of the folks in the AZTA and SZBA (although they were already quite upset with our online Jukai and Tokudo Ceremonies). Rather conservative, monastery trained folks did not welcome all this.

    However, my point was merely that, historically, monastic training in centuries' past (and even now) has not been all a bed of roses, with positive and negative aspects. The latter do not get pointed out in the idealized "Shangri La" image of monastic practice. Also modern, lay practice can equal or improve upon aspects of traditional training (while at the same time recognizing that, no, it cannot in all ways and there are differences). Different good paths suited to varied walkers.

    Anyway, not the first or last time I will have been in trouble with some traditional folks.

    Gassho, J

    SatToday
    Last edited by Jundo; 10-23-2015 at 02:50 AM.
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

    #SAT TODAY!

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