Originally Posted by
Fuken
Originally Posted by
anista
So, the precepts (some of them considered grave for a reason) along with I suppose the eightfold path, is for those who are "less enlightened"? I am not sure I agree with this. Anyway, it may be as it may with that, but a samurai who used his sword for killing could hardly be called enlightened. Not even by a stretch.
I recall an expression from an old master that went something along the lines that “the sword is not to take life, but to give it.”
I think that we should avoid using the precepts as a measure to judge the practice of another, but they are important for our own practice.
Killing, is not limited to the body, but words and ideas kill as well. And when we get into a judgmental mindset of “he did this so he is not practicing the Buddha way”, that is killing too.
And to say whether one is enlightened or not just seems irrelevant to me. It seems to fixed.
Unenlightened people engage in enlightened activity and are spontaneously transformed into Buddhas.
Enlightened people engage in unenlightened activity and are manifesting the form of animals, hungry ghosts and demons.
The problem with this is that with this kind of attitude, Buddhadharma will turn into anything goes. Anything and anyone can claim to transmit the true Buddhadharma, and no one can say anything about it. Does it matter for my own experience? Probably not. But that doesn't mean that we shouldn't have discussions about for example the precepts, and what they really mean and signify. One thing they are not, and that is empty words.
Even the Buddha by the way, told us that it is good to "periodically
[reflect] on the failings of others". He continued with where he believed we were heading if we falsely claimed to represent the dharma. We would be "headed for a state of deprivation, headed for hell, there to stay for an eon, incurable" (about his cousin Devadatta in
Devadatta sutta). Is that judging, or it a realist's description of what actually constitutes skillful and unskillful behaviour and what they will lead to? There is nothing judgmental about this, only the facts laid out in plain view.