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Thread: What happened to this place?

  1. #1
    disastermouse
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    What happened to this place?

    Huh. This forum used to have some interesting discussions, now I see that all the most recent posts are just Taigu's flowery poetics. Is it really possible that no one's got anything to say (except Taigu)? Or is it not the place of students to start interesting conversations?

    Chet

  2. #2
    Treeleaf Unsui Dosho's Avatar
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    Re: What happened to this place?

    Quote Originally Posted by disastermouse
    Huh. This forum used to have some interesting discussions, now I see that all the most recent posts are just Taigu's flowery poetics. Is it really possible that no one's got anything to say (except Taigu)? Or is it not the place of students to start interesting conversations?

    Chet
    Hmm...so, in just a few sentences you described the rest of the sangha as boring, criticized Taigu for being Taigu, and instead of starting your own "interesting" thread, you decided to complain about others.

    Welcome back my friend...wasn't the same without you.

    Gassho,
    Dosho

  3. #3
    disastermouse
    Guest

    Re: What happened to this place?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dosho
    Quote Originally Posted by disastermouse
    Huh. This forum used to have some interesting discussions, now I see that all the most recent posts are just Taigu's flowery poetics. Is it really possible that no one's got anything to say (except Taigu)? Or is it not the place of students to start interesting conversations?

    Chet
    Hmm...so, in just a few sentences you described the rest of the sangha as boring, criticized Taigu for being Taigu, and instead of starting your own "interesting" thread, you decided to complain about others.

    Welcome back my friend...wasn't the same without you.

    Gassho,
    Dosho
    It's not that it's boring - I'm wondering what's at the root of the problem. Apparently not everyone thinks it's a problem.

    Also, my 'interesting' threads get me in trouble - wouldn't you say? I've been sort of tentative about stirring the pot until today - and I'm stumped as to why the place isn't a bed of actual discussion and introspection instead of just 'Taigu posts vague poetry about Zen' and everyone lines up and says, 'Oh! Thank you! That was awesome!'

    Some of what Taigu writes or vid-posts is actually very profound IMHO - but validating his every post - even the 'hmm....yeah....okay?' ones seems counterproductive.

    Is this a Zen group or is it just a 'me-too' daisy-chain?

    Also, Taigu's not the 'problem' that I'm pointing out here - he just bugged the heck out of me with heavy-handedness because I don't think he's aware he's being heavy-handed and doing it with a frequent scapegoat that he knows no one will likely defend. Taigu's just as likely to jolt me awake with something - so I don't want you thinking I'm hating on everything Taigu-esque.

    Chet

  4. #4

    Re: What happened to this place?

    Come on buddy, please...
    Just look at the forum, we had a lot of very interesting discussion these last months, ...
    A lot of persons joined us lately and maybe we had a bit more discussion on some "basic teachings", but these are great opportunities for everyone to take some inspiration for our daily practice. The teachings we shared for this year's Jukai or Ango for example were very rich, maybe "basic" but still rich!
    No need to get fancy! We discuss "high philosophical" stuff sometimes and sometimes we just talk about the best posture to use when sitting...
    But I'm sure you understand my point!

    gassho,
    Jinyu
    ps: I'm very happy to see you back in the forum, you verb just like Stephanie's words are sometimes too "crude" for me, but they are great opportunities to practice. I hope you won't misunderstand my words, you know I'm not the most skilled in English

  5. #5

    Re: What happened to this place?

    This post itched, literally. So I thank you for the discomfort, the boat needs to be rocked now and then to make sure people don't fall into complacency.

    That being said, and I speak for myself alone here, when I don't have anything to say, I don't try to say something. A "Thank you for the teaching" suffices now and then. Not that I need to justify my words, or lack there of.

    Friendly Gassho,
    Taylor (Myoken)

  6. #6
    disastermouse
    Guest

    Re: What happened to this place?

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor
    This post itched, literally. So I thank you for the discomfort, the boat needs to be rocked now and then to make sure people don't fall into complacency.

    That being said, and I speak for myself alone here, when I don't have anything to say, I don't try to say something. A "Thank you for the teaching" suffices now and then. Not that I need to justify my words, or lack there of.

    Friendly Gassho,
    Taylor (Myoken)
    Zen is zen - does life intrude? It really doesn't, but sometimes it seems to. People used to not gloss over the cracks with the whole 'it's all zen - everything zen' stuff. It's true, everything is zen - everything is practice, but sometimes it seems not to be and people used to talk about that.

    Now they don't. I don't think you just get to 'everything is zen' in any earnest way just by saying 'yeah, everything is Zen'. I think that there's going to be a lot of the appearance of life 'getting in the way'.

    Chet

  7. #7

    Re: What happened to this place?

    I just posted some vague Zen poetry that might interest you! :lol:

    Gassho,
    Pontus

  8. #8

    Re: What happened to this place?

    Quote Originally Posted by disastermouse
    Some of what Taigu writes or vid-posts is actually very profound IMHO - but validating his every post - even the 'hmm....yeah....okay?' ones seems counterproductive.
    By the way, I have an idea! Why don't you judge all new vid-posts first, so that the rest of us know if it is profound or not?
    If everyone else appreciates a post but you go 'hmm....yeah....okay?', then it would save me some time and I could go delude myself somewhere else! :lol:

    I honestly think it's the stirring you are after, the rest is just rationalization. Better watch that!

  9. #9
    disastermouse
    Guest

    Re: What happened to this place?

    Quote Originally Posted by Omoi Otoshi
    Quote Originally Posted by disastermouse
    Some of what Taigu writes or vid-posts is actually very profound IMHO - but validating his every post - even the 'hmm....yeah....okay?' ones seems counterproductive.
    By the way, I have an idea! Why don't you judge all new vid-posts first, so that the rest of us know if it is profound or not?
    If everyone else appreciates a post but you go 'hmm....yeah....okay?', then it would save me some time and I could go delude myself somewhere else! :lol:

    I honestly think it's the stirring you are after, the rest is just rationalization. Better watch that!
    Disagree if you want to disagree - and obviously I'm not suggesting that I'm the arbiter of the profound - I'm just saying that there used to be a lot of the profound coming from the 'peanut gallery' of the student-hood.

    Now I guess we should just know our place and say 'Yes, teacher! So profound teacher! Pain does not exist in this dojo, Sensei!'

    It's easy to punch at me, Ponty - try to punch above your weight though - and not always at the scapegoats.

    If this is just supposed to be a one-way conveyor-belt of wisdom from the robed bald guys to the funnily-named students - oops! My bad. Also, I'm obviously in the wrong place.

    Chet

  10. #10

    Re: What happened to this place?

    Sometimes, even at parties, people will talk and talk. Have these great conversations. And talk out most of the themes and issues and experiences of the day. A quiet comes down. People hug and kiss and call it a night.

    Forums are no different.

    Between Zen Forum International and TL (and once in a long while Dhamma Wheel), I get most of my fill of Buddhist chat. But. I mean. How many threads do I really need to read about Four Noble Truths, Karma, Impermanence, etc to get an idea about it? Many threads with questions on Buddhist concepts usually start the same and progress along the same lines. I have a good Buddhist library that I use to answer some if not most of my questions. The rest of the Buddhist practice is LIfe outside of this forum.

    But. DM. If you got something interesting to discuss. Put the honey (or the ****) and us flies might buzz in. :mrgreen:

  11. #11

    Re: What happened to this place?

    Quote Originally Posted by disastermouse
    It's easy to punch at me, Ponty - try to punch above your weight though - and not always at the scapegoats.
    I'm new here, so I don't know the "weight" of people yet.
    You say that you are a scapegoat, but to me you were a blank sheet until you lost your temper today and I teased you for it my post above (I wrote that before I saw your post in the Genpo thread, at least now I know where all the anger comes from). I teased Taigu Sensei in another thread, and he took it well. That was no punch. At least it wasn't meant to be and if you see it as a punch I apologize for it.
    I have appreciated several of your other posts that were very eloquently put and made good points. This thread was more like 'hmm....yeah....okay?' :wink:

    Take care,
    Pontus

  12. #12

    Re: What happened to this place?

    Quote Originally Posted by disastermouse
    Huh. This forum used to have some interesting discussions, now I see that all the most recent posts are just Taigu's flowery poetics. Is it really possible that no one's got anything to say (except Taigu)? Or is it not the place of students to start interesting conversations?

    Chet
    Hm, maybe these kinds of discussions come in waves? You know, after rebirth/reincarnation posts, vegetarian vs. meat eating threads, sex scandals among buddhist (especially zen) clergy threads, etc., people tend to lay low for a while. I know that's true for me anyway. Then after a while, someone will bring up an interesting post and the discussions will flow again.

    Something like that.

    But I too sometimes miss these kinds of discussions, after seeing the hundredth happy birthday thread popping up. These are important as well of course, but you know what I mean. Hopefully.

  13. #13
    Friends of Treeleaf Dokan's Avatar
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    Re: What happened to this place?

    This thread smells of reality tv.

    Stirring the pot constructively is probably a good thing on occasion, and while it could be the failings of online communications, this doesn't appear as such. Maybe I'm deceived.

    While my knowledge/wisdom/experience may not be on par with most here, I will assuredly contribute where I feel directed.

    A quote from Gandhi came to mind while reading this thread:

    'Be the change you want to see in the world.'

    Maybe it could apply to our forum?

    Thanks for your practice.

    Gassho,
    Shawn

  14. #14

    Re: What happened to this place?

    A thing is sure... Since you are back a thread or two are more dynamic ... and I love it! :wink:
    I don't always agree with you DM, but at least you are open to debate! And ... Oh G-d...it is not always so!

    gassho,
    Jinyu

  15. #15
    disastermouse
    Guest

    Re: What happened to this place?

    Quote Originally Posted by Omoi Otoshi
    Quote Originally Posted by disastermouse
    It's easy to punch at me, Ponty - try to punch above your weight though - and not always at the scapegoats.
    I'm new here, so I don't know the "weight" of people yet.
    You say that you are a scapegoat, but to me you were a blank sheet until you lost your temper today and I teased you for it my post above (I wrote that before I saw your post in the Genpo thread, at least now I know where all the anger comes from). I teased Taigu Sensei in another thread, and he took it well. That was no punch. At least it wasn't meant to be and if you see it as a punch I apologize for it.
    I have appreciated several of your other posts that were very eloquently put and made good points. This thread was more like 'hmm....yeah....okay?' :wink:

    Take care,
    Pontus
    Lost my temper? Where did that happen?

    So you don't know the history of the Steph/Chet/Harry scapegoats? Ah well, that was another time. I don't mind being a scapegoat - but Taigu will smash Steph down for basically nothing.

    I was talking to two mods here who agree that the 'discussion' aspect of this discussion forum is lacking. I'm not entirely alone in my assessment - even if I'm relatively alone in being vocal about it.

    Chet

  16. #16

    Re: What happened to this place?

    Quote Originally Posted by disastermouse
    Lost my temper? Where did that happen?
    The Genpo thread? You mean you didn't lose your temper at all? OK, my mistake!

    I was talking to two mods here who agree that the 'discussion' aspect of this discussion forum is lacking. I'm not entirely alone in my assessment - even if I'm relatively alone in being vocal about it.
    I joined in december, so I don't know how things were before. But I think there have been a few really interesting discussions lately, so I'm satisfied with the forum so far. There could be more discussion on our practice, state, fears etc, but it's easier to discuss Karma or how to get into the lotus position, because you don't have to open up in the same way. It would be wonderful though if we could confess our mistakes, admit our failures, rejoice in our discoveries.

    The philosophical discussion can be interesting and fun, but sometimes they don't feel that important to practice, at leaast in my opinion. And sometimes they tend to turn into dharma-measuring contests or ego promotion.

    I agree with Shawn that the best way to do something about a situation you find lacking is to post a few interesting topics yourself! Looking forward to them!

    Gassho,
    Pontus

  17. #17
    Friends of Treeleaf Dokan's Avatar
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    Re: What happened to this place?

    Quote Originally Posted by disastermouse

    Lost my temper? Where did that happen?
    This may just be a personality difference. Having no history, the perceived tone may be misconstrued as aggressive...therefore I can see how it would appear you lost your temper. I felt the same response. However maybe this is just your direct/challenging way? For myself, should I feel that Taigu, Jundo or honestly anyone else in the sangha needed correction, I would personally proceed with tact and humility, but then I am normally pretty passive and non-confrontational. I think the other situation here is that when a teacher 'corrects' a student, it generally seems as compassionate, whereas when a student corrects a teacher it can be seen as disrespectful...I don't know how to manage that.

    Quote Originally Posted by disastermouse

    I was talking to two mods here who agree that the 'discussion' aspect of this discussion forum is lacking. I'm not entirely alone in my assessment - even if I'm relatively alone in being vocal about it.
    Well this is a good thing then in my opinion. Maybe together with the mods you guys could create some deeper/advanced topic discussions? I can't promise I'll have much to contribute, but I'd definitely enjoy reading them.

    Gassho,

    Shawn

  18. #18

    Re: What happened to this place?

    Quote Originally Posted by shards
    This may just be a personality difference. Having no history, the perceived tone may be misconstrued as aggressive...therefore I can see how it would appear you lost your temper. I felt the same response. However maybe this is just your direct/challenging way?
    Yes, you are probably right. My mistake then! It's always hard to judge people's reactions and emotions on an internet forum. I try to use smilies to convey some sort of mood, but it isn't perfect.

    /Pontus

  19. #19

    Re: What happened to this place?

    Hi.

    Quote Originally Posted by shards

    Quote Originally Posted by disastermouse

    I was talking to two mods here who agree that the 'discussion' aspect of this discussion forum is lacking. I'm not entirely alone in my assessment - even if I'm relatively alone in being vocal about it.
    Well this is a good thing then in my opinion. Maybe together with the mods you guys could create some deeper/advanced topic discussions? I can't promise I'll have much to contribute, but I'd definitely enjoy reading them.
    As one of the two Mods being referred to here, i would like to say a few things...

    First, I think the discussion here, sometimes, IS lacking, but that doesnt mean its a bad thing.
    WE might just be taking a break, having a bad day or something..
    Its ok.

    There has been some issues on Treeleaf, and to my knowledge, they have been taken care/still being taken care of to the best ability of the involved.
    Some might have been better taken care of in another way, some might not have liked the way things were done.
    But in the end, as some old fool around here says, its all good practice.
    And i would add, a good time for practice.

    But i would also point out that ITS YOU THAT MAKE THE FORUM, not me, Chet, Jundo or the muffinman.
    If you dont post, there will be no discussions.
    You might think you have nothing to add, but you're wrong.
    No one but you can add you're perspective, and that perspective is a good one.
    Sure, you might not know how to chant the Mahasaccaka Sutra by heart, but that doesnt matter, we are not here for that.
    We're here for you.
    For your thoughts and your ability to help further the discussions and understanding of the things as they are.
    Think you don't know anything about Sutras, and all that?
    Fine, post in the about life section or the Buddhist family holidays & practices workshop etc. see the talks put up by Jundo and Taigu, attend the teaparties, sit in the zenhall...
    But, most of all CONTRIBUTE.
    Only you know how.

    And please play nice.
    This time, Chet just happened, in his unique way, to be the one who put this forth.
    Next time it might be you.

    Thank you for your practice
    Fugen

  20. #20

    Re: What happened to this place?

    Answer to the question What happened to this place?

    same as it ever was

    it is pot luck

    That means what there is for others to nourish themselves with depends on what it is everyone brought.

  21. #21
    Treeleaf Unsui Dosho's Avatar
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    Re: What happened to this place?

    Quote Originally Posted by disastermouse

    It's not that it's boring - I'm wondering what's at the root of the problem. Apparently not everyone thinks it's a problem.

    Also, my 'interesting' threads get me in trouble - wouldn't you say? I've been sort of tentative about stirring the pot until today - and I'm stumped as to why the place isn't a bed of actual discussion and introspection instead of just 'Taigu posts vague poetry about Zen' and everyone lines up and says, 'Oh! Thank you! That was awesome!'

    Some of what Taigu writes or vid-posts is actually very profound IMHO - but validating his every post - even the 'hmm....yeah....okay?' ones seems counterproductive.

    Is this a Zen group or is it just a 'me-too' daisy-chain?

    Also, Taigu's not the 'problem' that I'm pointing out here - he just bugged the heck out of me with heavy-handedness because I don't think he's aware he's being heavy-handed and doing it with a frequent scapegoat that he knows no one will likely defend. Taigu's just as likely to jolt me awake with something - so I don't want you thinking I'm hating on everything Taigu-esque.
    Hey Chet,

    First off, I hope you know that I was mostly ribbing you with the "boring" comment and was really just making the point that you should start a thread if you want and that it was good to have you back. I notice my initial reactions to you in what some of the newbies have written above and see now how I figured you wrong. A lot of people who get that in your face don't actually care about what's being discussed and just like to argue for the sake of arguing (such as Shawn's reality tv comment). But you do care and if you think something's wrong you say it! That's not a bad thing at all...just not a type of person I had ever run into before then and not very much since.

    Ever since a conversation Fugen and I had with you on the tea party about coming back to the forum I have been trying to put into words my feelings about you in the sangha. Up to now I couldn't think of a way to say it without seeming condescending, but given this thread I'll just say it. In most families there is someone who can really get you going. A person who always offers some intense discussion that can get really heated at times and can leave you frustrated and pissed for quite awhile. If this person was a stranger or even a casual friend you might think to avoid them or just forget they ever existed after such an exchange. But when it's family it's different. You don't ever think of that person as potentially out of your life even if you don't see them for weeks or months because they are a permanently bound part of that life. The next time you see them there is no awkwardness over what was said as things just fall back into place...usually with a smile and some genuine affection.

    To me you will always be part...an important part...of what makes Treeleaf Treeleaf! Even if you walk out tomorrow and never come back, I will always see you as an essential cog among a chosen few that has made the sangha what it is and whatever it becomes. And in this particular instance I don't disagree with your criticisms as there has been a different vibe of late, but I could never really put my finger on it. For my own part I can say that I tend to avoid more "academic" discussions these days because I can get so wrapped up in them that I forget to sit. I also have a very mobile 18 month old that doesn't allow much time for cohesive thought. But yeah, there is definitely something to the issue you raised in this thread and I'm very glad you raised it.

    There is more to say, but I'll leave you with that for now. I am truly glad to have you back and I hope that comes across in what I have written here.

    Gassho,
    Dosho

  22. #22

    Re: What happened to this place?

    How about a deep gassho for chet. I agree with you in a lot of ways.

  23. #23

    Re: What happened to this place?

    I was thinking that about this as well.. But I was thinking about it in terms of myself lately. I've been watching the beginner vids again. You know I sometimes need to go back to the basics. Work is very, very busy right now, so although I do not post a lot right now, I'm practicing, I'm a member of this Sangha. That's the most important thing, practice.. for me right now.

    We just did Jukai. That was very, very deep for me. I feel that after Jukai, I'm questioning my practice even more deeply. It's not a bad thing, I'm not saying like hey i'm going to quit, why the hell am I doing this? I mean, what are the Bodhisattva vows to me? That's one of my main questions to me. I'm at the point in my practice, where I'm sort of quiet in discussion but very, very self-absorbed right now. I don't know if it makes sense.

    Today, when sitting zazenkai, I heard Jundo explaining the concept of Bodhisattva during hte second round of zazen. I actually really needed to hear that. To me it's still all about the basics.

    Or this week at work, I got really, really stressed out about a coding problem. And I sat there with it, and I asked myself why the hell are you getting stressed out like this? I felt the stress over my body. I sat with the stress during zazen, and I even got to the point where I laughed at it.

    Sometimes, I listen to the sit-along videos, and I don't even know what question to ask. I'm slow to learn sometimes, but it takes time to just soak it in. Personally, I don't have a lot of profound things or see the need to shake up some proverbial pot.

    I'm really just here to practice with everyone, and I like the birthday threads by the way. It's nice to take the time to wish someone a happy birthday amidst what may be a crazy work week, a crazy day with raising kids, a crazy day battling some disease...

    I don't know I haven't posted much like I said because I don't have anything profound to offer. When Taigu sensei or Jundo sensei write about something.. .Sometimes it hits me and all I can say is thank you. And I mean it.

    I guess you only know as much of me as I let on because we're limited to this forum; however, I can say that the last thing I want my practice to turn into is a damned sycophantic bunch of bs. Or a narcissistic bunch of bs for that matter.

    Now I'm rambling... but practice like life is boring sometimes. Thank goodness for that; I've learned through practice that boring is good. And I've also learned through Jukai and sewing the rakusu that it's slow and steady... just consistent, slow and steady.

    I'm glad Jennifer mentioned she was having some tough times with practice thsi week on the zazenkai thread. You know I have too. After Jukai, I've been really really introspective moreso than ever about this practice, and to me that statement reached me. That's what this sangha is sometimes; you know sometimes it's explosive and profound.. Sometimes we're just people trying to keep a practice. But most importantly we are here.

    Anyway those are my rambling thoughts, and for the record I did miss you Chet; you always make me think, and I do like when you stir crap up. haahhah

    Cyril

  24. #24

    Re: What happened to this place?

    Hi Guys,

    Please be warm in speech toward each other, no matter the topic. **

    I would say that, in the past week alone, we have had some fairly good discussions of ...

    Fallen Zen Masters

    viewtopic.php?f=9&t=3416

    Karma and Life after Death

    viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3335

    Silencing Thoughts during Zazen

    viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3396

    Free Will in Buddhism

    viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3388

    Go back over the last several years, and we have talked about just about everything in all time and space and the kitchen sink, and we will again ... as topics are reborn and reborn in future lives.

    All things come in waves. Now is just a time where folks may not be too chatty or are silent, which (last time I checked) is a good thing in the Zen world.

    And, if there is a subject that is something that ya really want to toss out there for discussion ... DO IT!

    I also think that we are going overboard with the "Happy Birthdays"! 8) Maybe we could do what they do at the office, and have a monthly "Happy Birthday" party for everyone. Also, I wish we could have cake.

    Gassho, Jundo

    ** Our one true “rule” of the Sangha (besides our “rule” to sit Shikantaza Zazen each day) is that members must mutually maintain “gentle speech” in all communication, even when voices disagree on hot issues. Perhaps more than anything, this allows a warm, welcoming and non-hostile atmosphere for new and old, where people can open up without fear.

  25. #25

    Re: What happened to this place?

    Okay, Chet.
    What would you like to talk about?

  26. #26
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    Re: What happened to this place?

    Since I was quoted I suppose I should respond.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fugen
    But i would also point out that ITS YOU THAT MAKE THE FORUM, not me, Chet, Jundo or the muffinman.
    If you dont post, there will be no discussions.
    I completely agree with you Fugen. My commentary was simply that if people feel the forum is lacking, then make contributions to make it better. I personally am not asking anyone to make the forum better. Being new I have been content with the forums, even sometimes feeling like I'm drinking from a firehose. If we talked on deeper subjects, then great. If we talk about birthdays, that's ok for me as well.

    I noticed that it was two months yesterday I joined Treeleaf and have made 120 postings...could it also maybe be partly the quality of my posts detract from the usefulness to some senior members? I can fully understand how people who have been here for years are not maybe so interested in discussing beginner topics, but I'm also not sure how the newer members can provide topics for deeper introspection that maybe some feel are missing.

    That being said, there are many times in my readings that I come across topics that blow right over my head (the recent ones on karma & the role of Bodhisattva's come to mind)...I will try to bring these to the forums in hope to stir deeper conversation while at the same time maybe find some answers for myself.

    Thank you for your clarity Fugen.

    Gassho,

    Shawn

  27. #27

    Re: What happened to this place?

    Quote Originally Posted by shards
    I can fully understand how people who have been here for years are not maybe so interested in discussing beginner topics, but I'm also not sure how the newer members can provide topics for deeper introspection that maybe some feel are missing.
    Oh, so many of these topics are bottomless wells and endless treasures, well worth the return to again and again. We are ALL, always beginners ... so no problem to go "back to the basics" any number of times. There are no "beginner topics" ... except all of them.

    Also, certainly, some discussion or teaching may go "over someone's head" if new to all this. No problem, give it time. Some may still go "over our heads" even 100 years into practicing.

    Never be afraid to discuss something because it seems too "simple" ... or to hesitate to comment on something because you think your comment is not worthwhile.

    Gassho, J

  28. #28

    Re: What happened to this place?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jundo
    Never be afraid to discuss something because it seems too "simple" ... or to hesitate to comment on something because you think your comment is not worthwhile.
    I would like to talk about backhair. ops:

    where does buddha stand on this topic?

    gassho
    Greg

  29. #29

    Re: What happened to this place?

    Chett,

    Putt the fire out...

    And don't look past your shoulder...

    gassho
    Greg

  30. #30
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    Re: What happened to this place?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jundo
    Never be afraid to discuss something because it seems too "simple" ... or to hesitate to comment on something because you think your comment is not worthwhile.
    Well received advice. I honestly have difficulty in commenting on discussions I have little to no understanding of (the Karma discussion is a good example). However I do follow them intently and when there is a point of clarity (like Stephanie's post on the same) comes out, it sticks firmly in my head. So maybe in time, when new Treeleafers from 2025 show up and ask about karma, I can share what I learned from that thread. I think this is ok as well.

    Gassho,

    Shawn

  31. #31

    Re: What happened to this place?

    Quote Originally Posted by ghop
    I would like to talk about backhair. ops:

    where does buddha stand on this topic?

    gassho
    Greg
    Actually, if traditional accounts are right (although other traditional accounts indicate nothing special about his appearance) ...


    (16) A Buddha’s bodily hair curls clockwise, with never more than one hair growing from each pore. This is due to his having rid himself completely of mental wandering, busy work, and bustling confusion.
    http://www.berzinarchives.com/web/en/ar ... arks_.html

    also

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physical_c ... the_Buddha

  32. #32
    Friends of Treeleaf Dokan's Avatar
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    Re: What happened to this place?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jundo

    (16) A Buddha’s bodily hair curls clockwise, with never more than one hair growing from each pore. This is due to his having rid himself completely of mental wandering, busy work, and bustling confusion.
    Is that clockwise from an internal or external perspective? :twisted:

    Either way, it's amazing that these details are chronicled.

    Probably not a link I'll bookmark.

    Gassho,

    Shawn

  33. #33
    Stephanie
    Guest

    Re: What happened to this place?

    Chet, do you ever walk into a situation and think, "What can I learn here?" And really look sincerely to others with the attitude they could teach you something? Why do you automatically assume the role of instructing everyone else? Do you realize how absurd it comes across as being?

  34. #34

    Re: What happened to this place?

    Post or don't post.

  35. #35

    Re: What happened to this place?

    Quote Originally Posted by chugai
    Somebody's boring me … I think it's me!
    Dylan Thomas
    Even boredom is something you do, but at the same time absolutely nothing has happened to this place. So it must be all in your mind. The dog is whining to go out.

  36. #36

    Re: What happened to this place?

    Hiyas.
    as mod # 2, I agree, lacking - but not in like "this MUST BE FIXED" kinda way. More in the this is the way it is kinda way :|

    The discussion/postings/etc go up and down for sure - and I but its not some thing to fix. As Fugen pointed out we each make up this space, so forcing more or less posting does not work. Like the Zen sitting hall, calls for more people to utilize the halls may seem to fall on deaf ears. Go sit enjoy and share experiences with those that are there...others will come by sheer curiosity and stay. Some will leave. Same thing happens with the Tea party, Ango etc etc.

    One thought for me, as a beginning beginner at treeleaf, I had it all down pat. Not too long into my practice I had it figured out. So I truly, then, I had not thing to ask or add. That, did not last and so it goes like that. This practice requires experience and that experience determines the ups and downs we see here- questions, comments and musings and some times nothing at all.

    With lots of new faces, comes lots of old questions and that is the way it goes and there is no better time for those who have been down that path to open up and share some perspective or answer some of these "beginning" questions or issues. This Also a great time for new folks to open up to each other and the other more weathered "beginners" in the Sangha rather than watching for the guys with no hair on their head for some of the Buddha basics. In just such cases, in our discussions the golden rule REALLY needs to apply. We are here to support one and other. Ribbing and such is okay when you are familiar with that person, otherwise use common sense and sincerity - its aids in every one keeping that first rule.

    On posting being "boring" I'm not a poet, however I enjoy poetry - in those threads I have nothing to add but gratitude. I do not have ever much to share but take lots away. Same goes for philosophical debates on somethings do not lure me into the fray, others I jump right in. I do not often take to the deeper philosophical discussions or debates as I feel I often miss some key underlying points or smaller picture (or bigger what ever) and so I worry I will spoil the stew, sour the brew, start break dancing in the middle of a tango (or the other way around). This may be the case for some folks too...that all said, its good to get out of the comfort zone and try once in awhile and give it a spin rather than calling from the side lines for something more interesting.

    Anywho, so many have summed this up clearer and more precise please for give my ramblings!

    Gassho
    the rambler :S

  37. #37

    Re: What happened to this place?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich
    even boredom is something you do, but at the same time absolutely nothing has happened to this place. So it must be all in your mind. The dog is whining to go out.
    This is my new sutra. :wink:

    gassho
    Greg

  38. #38

    Re: What happened to this place?

    Quote Originally Posted by ghop
    Quote Originally Posted by Rich
    even boredom is something you do, but at the same time absolutely nothing has happened to this place. So it must be all in your mind. The dog is whining to go out.
    This is my new sutra. :wink:

    gassho
    Greg
    The Diamond Sutra is pretty good too, and its a lot easier to understand.

  39. #39

    Re: What happened to this place?

    I know the desire to have a deep conversation. It's real. I have, in the past, duped myself into creating or manufacturing the facade of intelectual and deep thinking. It's tiring to say the least. What brings me back to now is what's in front of me. New promation at work. Feeding the cats. Doing the dishes. Looking at the kaleidoscope of colors in my daughter's eyes. Practice is life. Whether it's deepest abyss or skating on the surface of the water. Somebody tell me if I'm off base, please.

    Gassho Brothers and Sisters

    Jonathan

  40. #40
    Treeleaf Unsui Dosho's Avatar
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    Re: What happened to this place?

    Quote Originally Posted by jonhinkson
    Somebody tell me if I'm off base, please.
    Nope...can't do it...sorry to disappoint.

    Gassho,
    Dosho

  41. #41

    Re: What happened to this place?

    I've really enjoyed this thread thus far. I've been here a while, and my own posting goes in waves, up and down. Also, I communicate frequently through private messages depending on the topic or sometimes as a way to temper my own high emotions. I've been borderline obsessed with spiritual matters for decades, but those times when I dive into the 'deep waters', are the times that raise my own arrogance. I've done the longer and harder than you. I've studied more than you. Etc, Etc. In the end, I've been much happier in 'not knowing' and enjoying what I learn here, and enjoying the friends who stay with me here.

    Forums fall apart when: the discussions are consistently off topic, the tone of talk is consistently attacking or negative, and/or there is not sufficient reason for 'new blood' to join the mix. We have none of these criteria here, and I firmly believe that Treeleaf is alive and well. It doesn't really matter if I'm here a lot or a little--y'all make it clear that I belong.

    Chet, whether the talk is deep or shallow, and whether about you or not, and whether on a topic that is interesting or boring...in any case I firmly believe that you belong here too.

    Gassho, Ann

  42. #42
    Senior Member Nenka's Avatar
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    Re: What happened to this place?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jundo
    I also think that we are going overboard with the "Happy Birthdays"! 8) Maybe we could do what they do at the office, and have a monthly "Happy Birthday" party for everyone. Also, I wish we could have cake.
    Yeah, actually I feel a little weird about the birthdays because I don't really "know" some of the people and I can't decide if it would be odd to say "Happy Birthday!" or just ignore some people and not others (who wants to be ignored on their birthday?)

    Monthly might be a good idea.

  43. #43
    Treeleaf Unsui Dosho's Avatar
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    Re: What happened to this place?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer G P
    Yeah, actually I feel a little weird about the birthdays because I don't really "know" some of the people and I can't decide if it would be odd to say "Happy Birthday!" or just ignore some people and not others (who wants to be ignored on their birthday?)

    Monthly might be a good idea.
    Hi all,

    If I was at an employee's birthday party (on the actual day they were born) and didn't know the employee personally, should I refuse to sing happy birthday? If I was at one of your houses celebrating your uncle's/cousin's/great aunt's birthday should I refuse to eat any cake? If I saw a complete stranger crying, would I walk by them without asking if they were ok? Would I be more likely to do so if it was a kid at a McDonalds wearing a birthday crown? I'd like to think I'd sing, eat, and ask...even without the crown.

    I respectfully disagree with Jundo about the birthday threads and think it's odd that wishing someone well once a year would seem "overboard" or burdensome. Is there any more basic metta than taking a moment...even if there was a birthday here every single day...to wish anyone, well known or a stranger, a happy trip around the sun and think about them rather than ourselves in that moment? It, quite frankly, is the LEAST we can do around here to celebrate the lives of our sangha members, at least to me it is. As always, feel free to disagree...all I ever offer is my $0.02.

    Gassho,
    Dosho

  44. #44

    Re: What happened to this place?

    Quote Originally Posted by chugai


    Quote Originally Posted by Rich
    Quote Originally Posted by chugai
    Somebody's boring me … I think it's me!
    Dylan Thomas
    Even boredom is something you do, but at the same time absolutely nothing has happened to this place. So it must be all in your mind. The dog is whining to go out.
    When that guy barked, it gets your attention - there is nothing to think about, nothing to understand, no secret to reveal. Just keep coming back to that perception/attention and you'll be fine. Ofcause, most of the people here probably do that more than me. I live mostly in a habit world, so I keep practicing.

  45. #45

    Re: What happened to this place?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dosho
    I respectfully disagree with Jundo about the birthday threads and think it's odd that wishing someone well once a year would seem "overboard" or burdensome. Is there any more basic metta than taking a moment...even if there was a birthday here every single day...to wish anyone, well known or a stranger, a happy trip around the sun and think about them rather than ourselves in that moment? It, quite frankly, is the LEAST we can do around here to celebrate the lives of our sangha members, at least to me it is. As always, feel free to disagree...all I ever offer is my $0.02.

    Gassho,
    Dosho
    Hello Dosho,

    Since I, too, brought it up, I should offer my explanation. Birthday threads are nice. But they could be problematic.

    First of all - what about those people who doesn't get a happy birtday thread? I'm sure it can bring out feelings of being rejected, overseen, or simply ignored. Who gets a birthday thread? The most popular? People we tend to notice? People we see accidentally on Treeleaf's "today's birthday is ..."?

    Second of all - and this is purely a forum aspect: many threads on literally the same subject tend to clog up a forum. This is, after all, a discussion forum as well, and sometimes a lot of threads on the same subject is making it a bit heavy when you're sifting through the latest posts, to actually find discussions or unique subjects that hasn't been delt with a hundred times before.

    Forum-wise, I think it would be good either with monthly celebration, or a "birthday thread", where all these compassionate posts could be placed. That doesn't solve everything, but at least it frees up some space, and makes it easier to find subjects and navigate on the board.

    Or maybe I'm just grumpy because I don't celebrate my birthdays anymore.

    For what it's worth.

  46. #46
    Treeleaf Unsui Dosho's Avatar
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    Re: What happened to this place?

    Quote Originally Posted by anista
    Hello Dosho,

    Since I, too, brought it up, I should offer my explanation. Birthday threads are nice. But they could be problematic.

    First of all - what about those people who doesn't get a happy birtday thread? I'm sure it can bring out feelings of being rejected, overseen, or simply ignored. Who gets a birthday thread? The most popular? People we tend to notice? People we see accidentally on Treeleaf's "today's birthday is ..."?

    Second of all - and this is purely a forum aspect: many threads on literally the same subject tend to clog up a forum. This is, after all, a discussion forum as well, and sometimes a lot of threads on the same subject is making it a bit heavy when you're sifting through the latest posts, to actually find discussions or unique subjects that hasn't been delt with a hundred times before.

    Forum-wise, I think it would be good either with monthly celebration, or a "birthday thread", where all these compassionate posts could be placed. That doesn't solve everything, but at least it frees up some space, and makes it easier to find subjects and navigate on the board.

    Or maybe I'm just grumpy because I don't celebrate my birthdays anymore.

    For what it's worth.
    Or maybe I'm oversensitive because my Mom was only truly selfless on someone's birthday...we all have reasons, on the surface or buried deep, why we feel the way we do.

  47. #47

    Re: What happened to this place?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dosho
    Or maybe I'm oversensitive because my Mom was only truly selfless on someone's birthday...we all have reasons, on the surface or buried deep, why we feel the way we do.
    Fair enough!

  48. #48

    Re: What happened to this place?

    Quote Originally Posted by chessie
    Chet, whether the talk is deep or shallow, and whether about you or not, and whether on a topic that is interesting or boring...in any case I firmly believe that you belong here too.
    Just picking up on your thought. I think Chet belongs here. Like. All of us belong here. The active members to the lurkers. We all belong here. But we must also be aware that one day we will not belong here.

  49. #49

    Re: What happened to this place?

    What happened to this place?
    What happened to my wife/husband?
    What happened to my youth?
    What happened to my home?
    What happened to my friends?
    What happened to my pet?
    What happened?
    What happened?

    We ask the same questions of hungry ghosts.

  50. #50

    Re: What happened to this place?

    Quote Originally Posted by chicanobudista
    But we must also be aware that one day we will not belong here.
    I have an old Uncle who always lived with us and he used to says:
    "The only place you belong to... is the cemetery! You have a nice reserved spot just next to mine (in the family vault= still very important in Portugal). Believe it or not, it was one of his favorite jokes for years :lol: And more important ... it is true, all family members (untill now) have a reserved spot in the familial vault... traditions).

    gassho,
    Jinyu

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