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Thread: We Already Have Everything

  1. #1
    Friend of Treeleaf Daido's Avatar
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    We Already Have Everything

    Reference desire,

    I was hoping for some insight regarding this concept or a point to something reference it on the forum. I couldnt find anything. Brad Warner in "Sit Down and Shut Up" in reference to desire in the Twelvefold chain wrote,

    "By reading its (his book) contents you’re making them part of your mental makeup. Or so you think. The funny thing is, though – and try getting your cranium around this one because its really worthwhile – if these ideas were not part of your mental makeup to begin with, you’d never have been able to understand them in the first place. What you perceive as words written on this page are just funny shapes that trigger images that already exist in your mind as the one that were in my mind when I wrote the words. But they’re close enough that we can communicate. Ultimately, though the ideas in this book don’t come from me or from Dogen or from Buddha. They come from you – from your previous experiences with similar words, from all the things your family and your teachers and the cartoon shows and commercials on TV told you about what certain concepts mean, and so on and on."

    So once this is realized nothing changes? We still need the "funny little shapes" to learn what we already know. having a hard time with this one.

    Mike

  2. #2
    Senior Member Hoyu's Avatar
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    Re: We Already Have Everything

    Hi Mike,

    Sorry i can't answer this one, but i just wanted to say thanks. Because the excerpt you wrote from this book was so awesome i have to pick this one up to read more!!
    Not to take away from Mike's question, but if anyone else has read it i would love to hear their opinion of it as well.

    Gassho,
    John

  3. #3

    Re: We Already Have Everything

    Interesting, because Warner is telling us that we already knew about the funny little shapes that trigger the thoughts, or sequence memories to give us better understanding. So, I guess no insight gained? But, this paragraph, in itself is like one of those paintings of someone painting the same picture, and so on...

    I don't have much to add to this either, but just some random thoughts this brought up. Thanks for sharing, though, because those funny shapes you typed, both your own, and Warner's, inspired some interesting thought.
    Gassho.
    Wes

  4. #4
    Treeleaf Unsui Shokai's Avatar
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    Re: We Already Have Everything

    When you place the funny little shapes on a page you put them in slightly different order so that the concepts conveyed are shifted each time. I have ideas bonded to each of these symbols and concepts and I can confirm meanings in a dictionary to conform with society's agreement but, ultimately, the idea conveyed was originated from Dogen or Buddha. I bounce these thoughts around and come to a conclusion as to whether or not I think it's truth and in the end maybe you have altered the composite I call my world view. But, then again, wasn't that your objective? :? Certainly, every thing I read, see, hear, touch, taste or smell alters my world view in some way; assuming what Warner calls mental make-up is what i call world view. :roll: So, why does he put the onus on me. He's the one that started it!

  5. #5

    Re: We Already Have Everything

    All those funny symbols which cause thinking and understanding are actually pointing you to non thinking so as Richard says everything you see, hear, touch , taste or smell alters your world view which is already complete so 'we already have everything'.

    I think I read that in some zen books once

  6. #6

    Re: We Already Have Everything

    First, those funny little shapes have meaning to us because our brains are able to interpret them. Second, the way we interpret them, or bind them to ideas is based on our life experience (or world view as Shokai put it). Third, although words are used to convey meaning (originated by Buddha, Dogen, etc) those words may mean different things to each of us because, although the words are the same, our life experience that shape and give meaning to those words is different. Perhaps, that is what is meant by a teaching outside of hte scriptures.

    Gassho,

    Risho

    P.S. I think Richard already said this haahahah oh well, it made it make sense to me :mrgreen: Thanks Shokai

  7. #7
    Friend of Treeleaf Daido's Avatar
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    Re: We Already Have Everything

    Wow. That really deepens it for me. The explanations helped. It is far bigger and more amazing than I was able to understanding. Makes everything so personal and shared at the same time. Thanks guys.

  8. #8

    Re: We Already Have Everything

    "By reading its (his book) contents you’re making them part of your mental makeup. Or so you think. The funny thing is, though – and try getting your cranium around this one because its really worthwhile – if these ideas were not part of your mental makeup to begin with, you’d never have been able to understand them in the first place. What you perceive as words written on this page are just funny shapes that trigger images that already exist in your mind as the one that were in my mind when I wrote the words. But they’re close enough that we can communicate. Ultimately, though the ideas in this book don’t come from me or from Dogen or from Buddha. They come from you – from your previous experiences with similar words, from all the things your family and your teachers and the cartoon shows and commercials on TV told you about what certain concepts mean, and so on and on."

    So once this is realized nothing changes? We still need the "funny little shapes" to learn what we already know. having a hard time with this one.
    Hmmm. I agree and disagree with some of what is written here. The funny shapes are needed yes, because we must communicate and a standard has to be reached or we all just sound like Charlie Brown’s teacher to one another, the old Tower of Babel problem. But, when I write the word “chair” maybe you think of a rocking chair where I see a recliner.

    In my opinion, the concept of what the funny shapes mean are already in my mental make up, but the ideas – the living, breathing, interpretation of those concepts strung together from the view point of another person or from many people, comes from the person thinking them. Going back to Jundo’s old “you can’t tell someone exactly how vanilla tastes” thing, you can conceptualize the funny shapes that make up “vanilla” and have an idea of what that is, and “taste” and have an idea of how that works; but when you stop an think about the idea of trying to explain the taste of vanilla in the context that Jundo presents it, you have to stop and say, “Wow. That’s true. I really can’t tell another person what vanilla tastes like.” That resides only with them.

    The idea that we are only what we learn is incomplete, because then knowledge would reach a standstill. We would never be able to realize enlightenment or drop the self, because for the most part those that taught us have not done so either. There are also the examples of many koans (true or not makes little difference) where you read “and the master, hearing thus, became greatly enlightened.” Enlightenment might always be within us, but the concept required the correct push, the needed snap of something beyond what your current ability to conceive was capable of.

    I guess what I’m saying is that the “source” (for lack of a better word) of the concepts and ideas that we learn through our study of the Way might have always been there with us, but the ideas on stringing them together in such a way that they create the possibility of freedom, might not. Either way, nothing changes is kind of correct. The world becomes no different then it always was, but your understanding of it grows into something profound. The funny shapes become the finger pointing at the moon, just don’t mistake one for the other.

  9. #9

    Re: We Already Have Everything

    A bit of the chicken and egg about this, perhaps. I am not sure I follow it. People have been debating such things since before Plato.

    In any event ...

    But, when I write the word “chair” maybe you think of a rocking chair where I see a recliner.

    ...I really can’t tell another person what vanilla tastes like.” That resides only with them.
    Sit in the chair, taste the vanilla. I would not think it too central to our Practice to think whether either was in your head before or not.

    In fact, most traditional Buddhist views hold that that our entire experience of reality is a dance, constantly changing, of data from outside us entering the senses, then recreated in whole or part as images in the mind ... interpreted and categorized and judged and labeled, piled high with aversion and attractions. In fact, it is such an interrelated dance that we cannot even say that it is a matter of "inside you" or "outside you" ("inside" and "outside" are not really apart, thus "mind" is not inside or outside ... and even the experience of "you" is a product of this process) ... nor something happening just in the present and apart from the existing knowledge and experiences of the past or our vision and anticipations of the future (in fact, even the ideas of "past" "present" "future" are products of the process). All constantly changes too ... such that our experience of vanilla and chairs and words and "you-ness" is never quite the same even as a moment ago.

    And though this be so ... you better make sure the chair is actually "there" when ya seek to sit down in it, or you will have the very real "mental creation" of your imaginary "you" tumbling in the artificial "present" onto its "simulated backside". :shock:

    Something like that.

    Gassho, J

  10. #10

    Re: We Already Have Everything

    Quote Originally Posted by Brad
    By reading its (his book) contents you’re making them part of your mental makeup. Or so you think. The funny thing is, though – and try getting your cranium around this one because its really worthwhile – if these ideas were not part of your mental makeup to begin with, you’d never have been able to understand them in the first place.
    Whose mental makeup? The mental makeup of the deluded little ordinary self? Or of your true nature, your universal Self, the Big Self? :?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brad
    What you perceive as words written on this page are just funny shapes that trigger images that already exist in your mind as the one that were in my mind when I wrote the words. But they’re close enough that we can communicate. Ultimately, though the ideas in this book don’t come from me or from Dogen or from Buddha. They come from you – from your previous experiences with similar words, from all the things your family and your teachers and the cartoon shows and commercials on TV told you about what certain concepts mean, and so on and on."
    In Yogacara Mahayana buddhism there are three aspects of the Mind. See for example Buddhist thought by Paul Williams. The constantly changing flow of experiences is called the dependant aspect, the substratum of consciousness, the ultimate reality, the constantly changing dance. What you experience when reading Brad's book could perhaps, according to Yogacara, be the funny shapes called letters triggering a reaction in your consciousness (the visual consciousness, the mental consciousness, the tainted mind and the constantly flowing substatum consciousness)? The substratum for this experience would then already be there, ever flowing, ever present, but also ever unseen and ever hidden as long as there is the constructed aspect (delusion, polarised subjects and objects) and the tainted mind that mistakes the substatum consciousness for a self. When one is rid of all delusions, there is the third aspect, the perfect aspect, which is the absense of the constructed aspect from the dependant aspect. Without the object-subject duality there is only the experience of the pure dependant aspect where everything is as it is, nothing unseen, nothing hidden.

    A good author should use skilful means to put the right funny shapes on the paper according to the current state of mind and enlightenment of the reader, to trigger a glimpse of something real, something true, something pure.

    I don't mean to tell anyone that this is the truth, just poitning at one philosophical way of looking at things.
    Similar reasoning could probably be used in regard to Buddha nature, which I presume would be more Zen. :wink: And I think it may be wise to separate what is important to your practice, as Jundo says, and what is interesting but probably meaningless philosophical debate. If the Buddha could have told us the truth he would have. He couldn't (or wouldn't out of compassion?) so instead he showed us a Way.

    Gassho,

    /Pontus

  11. #11

    Re: We Already Have Everything

    In Yogacara Mahayana buddhism there are three aspects of the Mind. See for example Buddhist thought by Paul Williams. The constantly changing flow of experiences is called the dependant aspect, the substratum of consciousness, the ultimate reality. What you experience when reading Brad's book could perhaps, according to Yogacara, be the funny shapes called letters triggering a reaction in your consciousness (the visual consciousness, the mental consciousness, the tainted mind and the constantly flowing substatum consciousness)? The substratum for this experience would then already be there, ever flowing, ever present, but also ever unseen and ever hidden as long as there is the constructed aspect (delusion, polarised subjects and objects) and the tainted mind that mistakes the substatum consciousness for a self. When one is rid of all delusions, there is the third aspect, the perfect aspect, which is the absense of the constructed aspect from the dependant aspect. Without the object-subject duality there is only the experience of the pure dependant aspect where everything is as it is, nothing unseen, nothing hidden.

    A good author should use skilful means to put the right funny shapes on the paper according to the current state of mind and enlightenment of the reader.

    I don't mean to tell you that this is the truth, just poitning at one philosophical way of looking at things.
    Similar reasoning could probably be used in regard to Buddha nature, which I presume would be more Zen. :wink:

    /Pontus
    One thing I'd like to say. These funny shapes are just a vehicle to help us on our way. Once we reach the other shore, we abandon the boat. I think getting stuck on this point might be "picking the boat up and taking it with you, once you've reached the other shore."

  12. #12

    Re: We Already Have Everything

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnsonCM
    One thing I'd like to say. These funny shapes are just a vehicle to help us on our way. Once we reach the other shore, we abandon the boat. I think getting stuck on this point might be "picking the boat up and taking it with you, once you've reached the other shore."
    Yes, I think that is very true. That parable of the ferry boat is wonderful. But I would guess that letters can also fetter you to delusion, if the means aren't skillful. I added a few lines to my original post before I noticed your reply.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jundo
    Sit in the chair, taste the vanilla. I would not think it too central to our Practice to think whether either was in your head before or not.

  13. #13
    Blue Mountain White Clouds Hermitage Priest Taigu's Avatar
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    Re: We Already Have Everything

    Is the wind moving?
    Is it the flag that moves?
    Or the mind?

    Old koan. Right now. Pick one up, you have already lost your way. Don't pick any, what are you doing here baby?
    Pick up three? Who said they were three?
    Who is watching the flag in the wind? Or is it the flag watching you?

    These funny shapes are just a vehicle to help us on our way. Once we reach the other shore, we abandon the boat.
    Sutra are mountains and rivers, mountains and rivers are sutra. No boat thing. No helping. No "us". Nobody understands the parable of the ferry boat. It is not a parable. Not a boat.
    Between the flag, the wind and you, not a single speck of dust!

    gassho


    Taigu

  14. #14

    Re: We Already Have Everything

    Quote Originally Posted by Taigu
    Is the wind moving?
    Is it the flag that moves?
    Or the mind?
    The wind is moving, the flag is moving, in the mind. The mind is moving. Mind is everything.
    Everything is moving. Flowing like a torrent. And yet everything is still in this precise moment. :?

    Who is watching the flag in the wind? Or is it the flag watching you?
    Who is reciting Buddha's name?

    Sutra are mountains and rivers, mountains and rivers are sutra. No boat thing. No helping. No "us". Nobody understands the parable of the ferry boat. It is not a parable. Not a boat.
    Between the flag, the wind and you, not a single speck of dust!
    Only emptiness.

    Gassho,

  15. #15
    Blue Mountain White Clouds Hermitage Priest Taigu's Avatar
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    Re: We Already Have Everything

    Omoi-Otoshi,

    Thank you. Don't use your head though. Lots of :? . Out of the heart-being-just-this, move and be in stillness.
    Chew my stupid words a bit more longer, and those of Dogen even longer. Learn from children, small things, useless things. Open the open.

    Thank you for your patience


    gassho


    Taigu

  16. #16

    Re: We Already Have Everything

    Quote Originally Posted by Taigu
    Omoi-Otoshi,

    Thank you. Don't use your head though. Lots of :? . Out of the heart-being-just-this, move and be in stillness.
    Yes. Lots of :? :? :? in that head! Idle chatter in the form of conceptualising :lol: ops: . Such is the Way of a deluded mind. :wink:

    Fifteen years ago I chose the Koan Mu (Joshu's Dog). After a hundred conceptualisations and definitions I'm still working on it! :evil: I admit it has been out of my mind for extended periods of time though. Now I feel I'm getting closer, but I still don't feel it in my marrow. Maybe I never will. But it doesn't matter. I have read many other koans, but I seem drawn back to this one and for now it is enough. Maybe it always will be.

    Chew my stupid words a bit more longer, and those of Dogen even longer. Learn from children, small things, useless things. Open the open.
    Stupid words from the heart and I thank you for them. I need to read more of the stupid words of Dogen too! :wink: So much to read and... Infinite time!
    After Zazen, my one-year-old son is my most venerable teacher.
    Every day I try to quit trying to open the open, but it's hard. I try to just practice opening the hand of thought and see what comes out of it.

  17. #17
    Blue Mountain White Clouds Hermitage Priest Taigu's Avatar
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    Re: We Already Have Everything

    Pontus,

    Just a simple pointer: as you endlessly tried to swallow MU, you may let MU swallow you up. As we try to unfold in the world, we often use the good old rusty tools of conceptualization. As we sit, MU swallows us up in one big gulp, no need to think about it.

    gassho

    Taigu

  18. #18

    Re: We Already Have Everything

    Thank you Taigu Sensei.

    I have almost managed to quit trying to conceptualize it, which I guess is a good thing. At the same time, I don't want to drop it from thought completely, but continue to chew on it subconsciously (and sometimes even consciously, but then looking at it from different angles instead of trying to analyse it).

    I have answered the Koan several times already...
    Because I didn't have a teacher to tell me if my understanding was correct, I did search for the 'correct' answer. I found that several of my answers were in fact traditionally 'correct'. But I didn't feel it in my marrow, so I kept looking! :wink: There are so many different layers and dimensions to it. I suspect I will only say I have answered it fully after I have attained Satori. Which is something I'm not trying to attain. And since Zazen is Satori and Satori is Zazen I am in a way answering it every time I sit... Swallowed by it in one big gulp as you say! :lol:

    The funny thing is that Dogen Zenji conceptualizes quite a bit around it!
    From Shobogenzo:

    Quote Originally Posted by Dogen
    A monk asks Great Master Shinsai of Joshu, “Does even a dog have the Buddha-nature or not?”

    We should clarify the meaning of this question. “A dog” is a dog. The question does not ask whether the Buddha-nature can or cannot exist in the dog; it asks whether even an iron man learns the truth. To happen upon such a poison hand may be a matter for deep regret, and at the same time the scene recalls the meeting, after thirty years, with half a sacred person.

    Joshu says, “It is without.” When we hear this expression, there are concrete paths by which to learn it: the “being without” with which the Buddha-nature describes itself may be expressed like this; the “not having” which describes the dog itself may be expressed like this; and “there is nothing,” as exclaimed by an onlooker, may be expressed like this. There may come a day when this “being without” becomes merely the grinding away of a stone.

    The monk says, “All living beings totally have the Buddha-nature. Why is the dog without?” The intention here is as follows: “If all living beings did not exist, then the Buddha-nature would not exist and the dog would not exist. How about this point? Why should the dog’s Buddha-nature depend on ‘non-existence.’?”

    Joshu says, “Because it has karmic consciousness.” The intention of this expression is that even though the reason it exists is karmic consciousness and to have karmic consciousness is the reason it exists, the dog is without anything, and the Buddha-nature is without anything. Karmic consciousness never understands intellectually what the dog is, so how could the dog meet the Buddha-nature? Whether we cast away duality or take up both sides, the state is just the constant working of karmic consciousness.

    A monk asks Joshu, “Does the Buddha-nature exist even in a dog or not?”

    This question may be the fact that this monk is able to stand up to Joshu. Thus, assertions and questions about the Buddha-nature are the everyday tea and meals of Buddhist patriarchs. Joshu says, “It exists.” The situation of this “It exists” is beyond the “existence” of scholastic commentary teachers and the like, and beyond the dogmatic “existence” of the Existence School. We should move ahead and learn the Buddha’s Existence. The Buddha’s Existence is Joshu’s “It exists.” Joshu’s “it exists” is “the dog exists,” and “the dog exists” is “the Buddha-nature exists.”

    The monk says, “It exists already—then why does it forcibly enter this concrete bag of skin?” This monk’s expression of the truth poses the question of whether it is present existence, whether it is past existence, or whether it is Existence already; and although Existence already resembles the other “existences,” Existence already clearly stands alone. Does Existence already need to force its way in? Or does Existence already not need to force its way in? The action of forcibly entering this concrete bag of skin does not accommodate idle heedless consideration.

    Joshu says, “Because it knowingly commits a deliberate violation!” As a secular saying these words have long since spread through the streets, but now they are Joshu’s expression of the truth. What they discuss is deliberate violation. Those who do not doubt this expression of the truth may be few. The present word “enter” is difficult to understand; at the same time, the word “enter” is itself unnecessary. Moreover, If we want to know the immortal person in the hut, How could we depart from this concrete skin-bag here and now? Even if the immortal person is anyone, at what moment is it [necessary to say] “Do not depart from your skin-bag!”? A deliberate violation is not always entry into a skin bag, and to have forcibly entered a concrete skin bag is not always to knowingly commit a deliberate violation. Because of knowing, there can be deliberate violation. Remember, this deliberate violation may contain the action of getting free of the body—this is expressed as “forcibly entering.” The action of getting free of the body, at just the moment of containment, contains self and contains other people. At the same time, never complain that it is impossible to avoid being a person before a donkey and behind a horse. Still more, the founding Patriarch Ungo says, “Even to have learned matters on the periphery of the Buddha-Dharma is to have adopted a mistaken approach already.” That being so, although we have been making the mistake for a long time—which has deepened into days and deepened into months—of half-learning matters on the periphery of the Buddha-Dharma, this may be the state of the dog that has forcibly entered a concrete skin bag. Though it knowingly commits a deliberate violation, it has the Buddha-nature.

  19. #19
    Blue Mountain White Clouds Hermitage Priest Taigu's Avatar
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    Re: We Already Have Everything

    Nice to hear from you Pontus,

    Let me clarify a few points here.

    Although I am not trained in koan and have no authority whatsoever to tell a student if he gets it right (as I belong to the Soto school, the one that stresses silent sitting), koans pop at every corner of my sometimes simple, sometimes complicated life.There is a big debate around koan or not koan in Dogen's original tradition. Both views seem extreme to me, and I think Dogen had a very lively and dynamic perception of koan practice. Trained in koan practice himself in his early days, he was very familiar with them and when he brought the teaching of shikantaza to Japan he had to deal with koan and reach people through koan study in Shobogenzo. You haev to understand that Shobogenzo was a book written at a certain time in japanese and Buddhist history with people in Dogen's mind. In doing so he gave koans, old stories and many other aspect of Buddhism a real twist that still , up to this very day, thought provoking. In our Soto school, we don't entertain the mind with thoughts about this and that, and I think that true Rinzai practice is about becoming one with the koan and spitting an answer which has nothing to do with
    wording
    but much more with being. That's what I meant by allowing the koan to swallow you.

    The path of koans is a very different one from what we pratcice at Treeleaf. Please be aware of this.

    gassho


    Taigu

  20. #20

    Re: We Already Have Everything

    This is just my opinion, but koans are important only because they are "direct pointing" at a different way of seeing. They are not the only way to see differently though, not the only method of "direct pointing" so to me they are important, but no more important than any other teaching. They are no more important than the sutras, or discourses. One thing I am beginning to think about lately is that, it seems, that our Way is less of a Way and more of a way to clear away all the ways that are in the way. Koans, sutras, discourses, teisho, all are there for one purpose, to point the way on this Way of No Way, so that we can clearly see that "we already have everything". That's one of the reasons I so enjoy the Genjokoan. It is the koan of life itself, the koan that is life, which is the life of the koan.

    Hope that made sense..... ops:

  21. #21

    Re: We Already Have Everything

    Thank you Taigu Sensei,

    Quote Originally Posted by Taigu
    Although I am not trained in koan and have no authority whatsoever to tell a student if he gets it right (as I belong to the Soto school, the one that stresses silent sitting)
    Don't worry, it's not why I came here. I don't even consider it an important part of my practice. I started on this Koan when I first got interested in Zen after having read a meditation manual fifteen years ago and when the Way found me again, so did the Koan. The book wasn't specifically about Zen and the author didn't specify his Zen teachers lineage, but I would guess from his writing that he belonged to the Yasutani-Harada lineage, which has a strong Rinzai influence.

    There is a big debate around koan or not koan in Dogen's original tradition. Both views seem extreme to me, and I think Dogen had a very lively and dynamic perception of koan practice. Trained in koan practice himself in his early days, he was very familiar with them and when he brought the teaching of shikantaza to Japan he had to deal with koan and reach people through koan study in Shobogenzo. You have to understand that Shobogenzo was a book written at a certain time in japanese and Buddhist history with people in Dogen's mind. In doing so he gave koans, old stories and many other aspect of Buddhism a real twist that still , up to this very day, thought provoking.
    Ah, very interesting! The next two books in my reading pipeline is "Dogen, Mysterious Realist" and "Realizing Genjo Koan". I hope I'll have a better view of Dogen's life and teachings after that. Then it's time to go through the Shobogenzo, but all in good time!

    In our Soto school, we don't entertain the mind with thoughts about this and that, and I think that true Rinzai practice is about becoming one with the koan and spitting an answer which has nothing to do with wording but much more with being. That's what I meant by allowing the koan to swallow you.
    Yes, that was what I meant when I said I didn't feel the answer in my marrow. I came up with several answers that could be considered 'correct', but I have yet to be Mu, as you say. Maybe I will, maybe not. Zazen is my most venerable teacher and Shikantaza is the core of my current practice.

    The path of koans is a very different one from what we pratcice at Treeleaf. Please be aware of this.
    Yes, I'm aware of it. I came to Treeleaf because I felt I identified most with Soto Zen, especially the teachings of Kodo Sadowaki and Uchiyama. On the other hand, if I have understood things correctly, there's no rule against Koans in the Soto tradition. In fact I believe some Soto Roshis use Koans as a way of explaining difficult concepts or make a particularly dense student look at something from a different angle, rather than aiming for the sudden realization of the Rinzai school.

    Thank you again for your reply and I promise I will tell you if I suddenly become Mu in the marrow of my marrow!

    Gassho,
    Pontus

  22. #22
    disastermouse
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    Re: We Already Have Everything

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnsonCM
    This is just my opinion, but koans are important only because they are "direct pointing" at a different way of seeing. They are not the only way to see differently though, not the only method of "direct pointing" so to me they are important, but no more important than any other teaching. They are no more important than the sutras, or discourses. One thing I am beginning to think about lately is that, it seems, that our Way is less of a Way and more of a way to clear away all the ways that are in the way. Koans, sutras, discourses, teisho, all are there for one purpose, to point the way on this Way of No Way, so that we can clearly see that "we already have everything". That's one of the reasons I so enjoy the Genjokoan. It is the koan of life itself, the koan that is life, which is the life of the koan.

    Hope that made sense..... ops:
    One can trounce merrily to hell girded in teachings, koans, discourses, and cherished experiences - at least this is something to which I've found myself quite prone.

  23. #23

    Re: We Already Have Everything

    Holy Hell!

    Chet! It's good to see you again my friend!

  24. #24
    disastermouse
    Guest

    Re: We Already Have Everything

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnsonCM
    Holy Hell!

    Chet! It's good to see you again my friend!
    Thanks!

  25. #25

    Re: We Already Have Everything

    Just a simple pointer: as you endlessly tried to swallow MU, you may let MU swallow you up.


    Big bow, Taigu... that's a GREAT way to put it. This is why I moved away from Rinzai toward Soto in a nutshell.

  26. #26

    Re: We Already Have Everything

    Welcome back Chet!

    Cyril

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