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Thread: SIT-A-LONG with Taigu: Koku 3

  1. #1

    SIT-A-LONG with Taigu: Koku 3

    The Nishijima Cross translation gives this version of the text:


    Zen Master Shakky? Ez? of Bush? asks Zen Master Seid?
    Chiz?,“Do you understand how to grasp space?”
    Seid? says, “I understand how to grasp it.”
    The master says, “How do you grasp it?”
    Seid? clutches at space with his hand.
    The master says, “You do not understand how to grasp space.”
    Seid? says, “How do you grasp it, brother?”
    The master grabs Seid?’s nostrils and pulls them.
    Groaning with pain, Seid? says, “It is very brutal to yank a per-
    son’s nostrils, but I have directly been able to get free.”
    The master says, “Directly grabbing hold like this, you should
    have got it from the beginning.”
    Shakky?’s words “Do you understand how to grasp space?” ask
    “Are you too ‘the thoroughly realized body as hands and eyes’?”Seid?
    says, “I understand how to grasp it.” Space is one unadulterated mass, which,
    once touched is then tainted.Since being tainted, “space has fallen to the
    ground.”

    As we are entertaining ourselves with ten thousand things to do, to dream about, to chase; as we imagine the truth to be found somewhere else, we neglect the very precious Koku of this-self-here-now. Getting hold of our nose is to get in touch with the only reality that matters. Everything else belongs to the realm of projection and illusion, we have to start where we live, in this space of being and practice and then we may unfold.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwtcYII-NQM[/video]]

  2. #2

    Re: SIT-A-LONG with Taigu: Koku 3

    Thank you!

    Gassho
    Shohei

  3. #3

    Re: SIT-A-LONG with Taigu: Koku 3

    Yes indeed thank you! I am enjoying this series.

    Gassho,
    Jisen/BrianW

  4. #4
    Treeleaf Unsui Yugen's Avatar
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    Re: SIT-A-LONG with Taigu: Koku 3

    Yes, I am enjoying this series as well. Thank you very much Taigu.

    Gassho,
    Yugen

  5. #5
    Treeleaf Unsui Myozan Kodo's Avatar
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    Re: SIT-A-LONG with Taigu: Koku 3

    It was under my nose all along. No ... Wait... It is my nose!
    Thanks teacher and gassho,
    Soen

  6. #6
    Senior Member Heisoku's Avatar
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    Re: SIT-A-LONG with Taigu: Koku 3

    Thank you

    Gassho

  7. #7

    Re: SIT-A-LONG with Taigu: Koku 3

    Gassho,
    Engyo

  8. #8

    Re: SIT-A-LONG with Taigu: Koku 3

    So...This nose, tell me what is it? How big? What color?
    And how to get hold of it? Can you see where Dogen is heading here?

    gassho

    Taigu

  9. #9

    Re: SIT-A-LONG with Taigu: Koku 3

    And who could have a go at...

    Space is one unadulterated mass, which,
    once touched is then tainted.Since being tainted, “space has fallen to the
    ground
    Don't be shy!

    gassho


    Taigu

  10. #10

    Re: SIT-A-LONG with Taigu: Koku 3

    This nose, I can not tell you what it is. Nor how big, nor what color.
    But how to get a hold of it...seeing Dogen's hiding place...it is all very simple.

    I watch my breath,
    ahhh =)


    Gassho


    Seiryu

  11. #11

    Re: SIT-A-LONG with Taigu: Koku 3

    Not bad but can you go further?
    And why once touched is it tainted?

    gassho

    Taigu

  12. #12

    Re: SIT-A-LONG with Taigu: Koku 3

    When we look, there is two. the one who sees and the thing seen. when we touch there is two, the one touching and the thing touched. When we speak there is two. The words, and the one who speaks them. When we sit, there is two. the one sitting, and the sit itself.
    when we say "touch and it is tainted" we have already committed a sin.

    what a horrible thing to do, to taint space. for even there, there is two. space, and it being tainted. no longer can it hold itself up.

    How then do you pick up tainted space once fallen?


    Gassho

    Seiryu

  13. #13

    Re: SIT-A-LONG with Taigu: Koku 3

    Quote Originally Posted by Taigu
    So...This nose, tell me what is it? How big? What color?
    And how to get hold of it? Can you see where Dogen is heading here?

    gassho

    Taigu
    In this moment this nose is reality; larger than the sum of the myriad things and the presence of all colours.
    To grasp it takes practice. Then it is just my nose.
    Gassho,
    Engyo

  14. #14

    Re: SIT-A-LONG with Taigu: Koku 3

    Seiryu, this is good dragon fetching the pearl... but I would not call the action of tainting sin, just extra. The dragon could realize that the pearl has never left its dragon-womb. Here or beyond are merely veils of thoughts hanging in vast pearly-dragon space. Originally, there is no two. When we sit, it is not two.. Duality appears through an action of grasping or kicking. Picking up and choosing as the good old ancestor puts it. Is there anything that is not your own nose? Buddha, Dogen, all the guys before and after you are here. Wherever you look, it is just pearl, practice, your nose, space. Nothing to pick up really. Clown-dragon on the floor can pick himself up and everything is up.

    Engyo, I bow to your wisdom. One thing though, you write " then", both universal and personal are yet together.
    Maybe I would say: to grasp it is practice itself. Grasp this nose and realize alll things as not seperate from you.
    Just your nose? For sure! And at the same time, much more...

    gassho


    Taigu

  15. #15
    Treeleaf Unsui Myozan Kodo's Avatar
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    Re: SIT-A-LONG with Taigu: Koku 3

    .

  16. #16

    Re: SIT-A-LONG with Taigu: Koku 3

    Arigatou Sensei


    Gassho



    Seiryu

  17. #17

    Re: SIT-A-LONG with Taigu: Koku 3

    Thank you, Taigu.
    I appreciate the emendation.
    (Sigh) I also recognize you have given me similar advice once before.
    Gassho,
    Engyo

  18. #18

    Re: SIT-A-LONG with Taigu: Koku 3

    If you don't mind me saying, it is not an emendation or an advice, because there is nothing to correct. Your spontaneous true self cannot be reached through philosophical or grammatical rumblings. I was just pointing at what you are saying all along, Engyo. You are the truth that you are looking for. When we don't even open our mouth or make a single move, how it is expressed? Once we speak, we sometimes fall in the trap of dualistic views, often bacause language has a dualistic nature. Poetry, Shobogenzo paradoxes are a wonderful way to convey the ineffable, to manifest the invisible ( yet so visible all along)...

    gassho


    Taigu

  19. #19

    Re: SIT-A-LONG with Taigu: Koku 3

    Quote Originally Posted by Taigu
    Not bad but can you go further?
    And why once touched is it tainted?

    gassho

    Taigu
    As if you could touch it!

    The nose was never grabbed in the first place. Or maybe it has been yanked and twisted since before we knew it sat below our eyes.

    Gassho,
    Taylor (Myoken)

  20. #20

    Re: SIT-A-LONG with Taigu: Koku 3

    Thank you Taigu,
    I have no clue where Dogen is going to go from here, but for myself I like this teaching
    and if we dont get stuck with noses, and self and others, inside and outside, all seems
    pretty clear.
    _()_
    Peter

  21. #21

    Re: SIT-A-LONG with Taigu: Koku 3

    Peter, your post says it all...


    gassho


    Taigu

  22. #22

    Re: SIT-A-LONG with Taigu: Koku 3

    Myoken,

    Extend the circle further, much further than that...

    Thank you for your presence and practice


    gassho


    Taigu

  23. #23

    Re: SIT-A-LONG with Taigu: Koku 3

    Breathing in and out
    Let body/mind fall away
    No trace.
    When you see Dogen, gently bow.
    Then walk away...


    Bows


    Seiryu

  24. #24

    Re: SIT-A-LONG with Taigu: Koku 3

    Quote Originally Posted by Taigu
    Myoken,

    Extend the circle further, much further than that...

    Thank you for your presence and practice


    gassho


    Taigu
    I was wondering what sort of nose I had placed on my face :P

    I suppose the bigger I make it seem the smaller I actually make it. Indeed Peter, I have no idea!

    None none not one but not two either. The field of trees outside is just a field of noses!

    Deep bow,
    Taylor (Myoken)

  25. #25
    Senior Member Ronchan's Avatar
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    Re: SIT-A-LONG with Taigu: Koku 3

    Thank you, Taigu,

    gassho,
    Ronald.

  26. #26

    Re: SIT-A-LONG with Taigu: Koku 3

    Quote Originally Posted by Taigu
    So...This nose, tell me what is it? How big? What color?
    And how to get hold of it? Can you see where Dogen is heading here?

    gassho

    Taigu
    I don't know how to answer this question because in some sense I've created this nose by chasing after things like you say.

    This grasping is so ingrained in me that I catch the grasping mind in the very language I use to communicate. For instance, I need to sit zazen to become better or more peaceful. I have this hidden agenda. I catch myself, and it is very difficult to stop, so I just watch it.. or I try to watch it. But my nose appears when things don't go my way or do go my way. It changes according to the situation, but it's definitely of my creation.

    Zazen is so simple, but it is also very difficult for me at times, especially when I'm being led by the nose by what I want. I have to echo what you say at the end of the talk by stopping the chase we get hold of the nose... see things as they are.

    I feel like a fraud answering this question at all; I have some understanding of this, but this is something that I fail at again and again and again.

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