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Thread: NOTICE: Fun at Shambhala Sun

  1. #1

    NOTICE: Fun at Shambhala Sun

    Hi Everyone,

    There has been a change in editorial policy over at Shambhala Sunspace which means that the "Sit-a-Long" video sittings will probably be appearing over there once every couple of weeks or so (instead of the two or three times a week until now).

    That's fine, as some of their management felt that we were too much dominating the page with our thrice weekly "Sit-a-Long" Zazen posts. Taigu and I sometimes felt so too.

    As well, the editors lately have expressed that they want their Sunspace page to be more "pan-Buddhist" and aimed at a general audience which is, in their words, less "Zen-specific / insidery / jargony" of any one corner of Buddhism. For example, we were sometimes told that we had to make our presentation of Koans, Shobogenzo and such "clearer ... for less-familiar readers to parse" because "less oblique = more inviting".

    Hmmm.

    WELL, TAIGU AND I WILL NOT DUMB DOWN OR FLUFF UP OR CASH IN OR SELL OUT OUR TALKS AND TEACHING FOR ANYONE! :twisted: When presenting Zazen ... we must present Zazen, when Dogen ... Dogen, etc.

    Anyone who wants us to non-do otherwise can take a long walk off a short pier ... or 100 ft. pole!

    So, we are going to move our "Sit-a-Longs" for now right here, to our Forum ... where we can say and do what we wish without editors rewriting it or changing the meaning or pulling punches, as started to happen more and more. They will appear in the "TALKS and TEACHINGS by JUNDO & TAIGU" section of this Forum:

    viewforum.php?f=17

    Here is the latest from Taigu (this kind of thing did not pass muster with the editors):

    viewtopic.php?f=17&t=2971&p=42005#p42005

    Now, the editors are not to be faulted, as they are just trying to reach out to a big tent which holds all flavors of Buddhist ... from "A is for Amida to Z is for Zen" ... and I can see their point of view in needing to do that for their Sunspace webpage. I also do see that it is a very good thing to communicate with the wider Buddhist community, so every couple of weeks, if Taigu or I do have a topic to talk about which fits the "MahaSangha" viewpoint that the editors want, we will go ahead and post over there (and here too).

    Gassho, Jundo

    PS - In moving this thread, I deleted by accident several people comments on the above post, which I reprint here:


    Re: NOTICE: Fun at Shambhala Sun
    by chugai on 03 Oct 2010 06:22 pm


    I wondered what was up. Glad the talks continue, thanks for all you do, both of you. ... James

    chugai

    Re: NOTICE: Fun at Shambhala Sun
    by Peter Lin on 03 Oct 2010 07:09 pm


    Good move ... for Shambhala and Treeleaf,
    Gassho
    Peter


    Re: NOTICE: Fun at Shambhala Sun
    by KvonNJ on 03 Oct 2010 09:46 pm


    Jundo, correct me if I'm remembering wrong, but in the "old days" here, the "Sit-A-Longs" were posted (almost daily,) right here, and there was simply an advertizement for them in Shambhala Sun (or was it Tricycle? Or both?)
    INVICTUS!
    _/|_

    KvonNJ

    Re: NOTICE: Fun at Shambhala Sun
    by zak on 03 Oct 2010 10:24 pm


    Zen with editors. Seems like there should be a punch line somewhere here. Oh well, it seems the evolution of all religions eventually become bureaucratic B.S. Gassho zak ( Now one point and click)
    The birds have vanished down the sky.
    Now the last cloud drains away.
    We sit together, the mountain and me,
    until only the mountain remains.

    Li Po

    zak

    Re: NOTICE: Fun at Shambhala Sun
    by lorax on 03 Oct 2010 10:48 pm


    Good that were all home back at Treeleaf! Changed, but the same, knowing that there is someone sitting with us each day.

    Jim

    lorax

    Re: NOTICE: Fun at Shambhala Sun
    by rculver on 03 Oct 2010 11:47 pm


    Ok.
    Shugen

    rculver

    Re: NOTICE: Fun at Shambhala Sun
    by Jundo on 04 Oct 2010 01:10 am


    KvonNJ wrote:
    Jundo, correct me if I'm remembering wrong, but in the "old days" here, the "Sit-A-Longs" were posted (almost daily,) right here, and there was simply an advertizement for them in Shambhala Sun (or was it Tricycle? Or both?)



    Yes, it was (a blog at blogger, then beliefnet for a year). When we moved to Shambhala Sun, we were soon told to make it 4 times a week, then recently 3 times a week. Actually, Taigu and I are now talking about whether we should keep the "3 times a week" because it allows more time for folks to sit with and digest the little talks without be overwhelmed. We are still sitting each day around this place, all together, but a talk each day is a bit too many words and not enough silence.

    Gassho, Jundo

    Re: NOTICE: Fun at Shambhala Sun
    by murasaki on 04 Oct 2010 02:30 am


    FWIW, I think it's nice to have some time in between talks for the message to gel in my head.

    Thank you, Jundo and Taigo for not "selling out", and also for continuing to work with Shambhala Sun's heavy editing hand -- sharing a general view of Buddhism, however abridged (and disappointing) it may be, is still sharing, and I know you will do it thoughtfully so their readers will benefit in some way.

    gassho
    Julia
    Skype: nenuphar_

    murasaki

    Re: NOTICE: Fun at Shambhala Sun
    by Stephanie on 04 Oct 2010 02:37 am


    I like this. Good to have a presence and reach new folks via Shambhala Sun, even better to have more freedom on Treeleaf.
    My Ango Blog: http://fallangoblog2010.blogspot.com/

    Stephanie

    Re: NOTICE: Fun at Shambhala Sun
    by Dosho on 04 Oct 2010 04:10 am


    Thanks Jundo and Taigu...showing again and again why Treeleaf is my second home. I don't always agree with your decisions (although I usually do), but I don't think it can ever be said that you choose a direction lightly. As they say, keep on keeping on...

    Gassh,
    Dosho

    Re: NOTICE: Fun at Shambhala Sun
    by Jinyu on 04 Oct 2010 03:09 pm


    I didn't know the editors were so directive... but I understand the desire to be open to the "MahaSangha"... still a bit sad, I think a lot of people benefit from these talks over there... maybe some of us knew about our Sangha and his teachers via these teachings...
    On the other hand, having them here is just great... as it is!

    Thank you both!
    gassho,
    Jinyu

    Re: NOTICE: Fun at Shambhala Sun
    by JoeTurner on 04 Oct 2010 07:38 pm


    Hello,
    just another example of impermanence Our gratitude for the teachings of Taigu and Jundo is just as great wherever it appears. Keep up the good work


    Much in Gassho

    Joe

    Re: NOTICE: Fun at Shambhala Sun
    by Jennifer G P on 05 Oct 2010 11:47 pm


    To be honest, I'm kind of glad this happened. I never felt these talks quite fit over there at Shambhala Sun, which--like all consumer magazines--exists to sell things to as general an audience as possible. I'm not trying to be bash-y here, I do get it, but the emphasis there on selling Big Names and Expensive Retreats and Buddhist Swag . . . eh, I've said enough. Glad to see you wouldn't compromise. A lot of people on the internet would have.

    Edited to add: I don't want to sound too down on Shambhala Sunspace. They have their purpose, Treeleaf has its purpose, and it sounds like the two aren't quite working out for anyone involved.

    And by the way, why did Treeleaf ever leave beliefnet.com? I check out the archives from time to time. That was a nice setup.

    Jennifer G P

    Re: NOTICE: Fun at Shambhala Sun
    by richard409 on 06 Oct 2010 01:14 am


    Thanks Jundo and Taigu...

    Hear, hear, I second all of the above and If there is a poll to be had, my vote goes to the "3 times a week" plan.

    gassho, Richard

    Re: NOTICE: Fun at Shambhala Sun
    by Leffeblond on 06 Oct 2010 05:43 am


    I totally agree with Murasaki and Jennifer G P .
    By the way Jundo, your writing-style always makes me giggle.
    Keep up the good work and we´ll all be right here, at home!

    Thanks
    Joyce

    Re: NOTICE: Fun at Shambhala Sun
    by Peter Lin on 06 Oct 2010 06:51 pm


    3 times a week is enough for me, we also have the book club and the forum where Jundo and Taigu too often post, so there is plenty to make it into our hearts.

    Peter Lin

  2. #2

    Re: NOTICE: Fun at Shambhala Sun

    I HAVE DELETED THIS POST >>>> FOR THE REASONS EXPLAINED BELOW (THE EDITORS PRINTED THE SUBJECT ARTICLE) ...

  3. #3
    Senior Member Nenka's Avatar
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    Re: NOTICE: Fun at Shambhala Sun

    Huh, and they still turned it down? Odd.

    As a writer myself, I know how annoying it is to have one's work meddled with by editors. I must confess, however, I have no problem with them taking out the boldface parts . . . if only because everything in print or on the internet or t.v. these days is so full of loaded language and namecalling. I think "the snake oil, the image-driven jive and hype, the soothing but empty cliches, the charismatic charlatans, the fast food drive-though spirituality" gets your point across PERFECTLY without the (forgive me) lower word-slinging of "crazy cults," "downright crooks and con-men," etc. Maybe it's just me; I've become really sensitive to that, even (especially?) when it comes to viewpoints I actually agree with.

    Still, I'm disturbed that they didn't approve of your message in general. Maybe it comes too close to describing some of the New Age gurus they promote?

    ETA: Thanks for mentioning Buddhadharma: A Practioners Quarterly. I've never seen that magazine before. It has some articles online I think I might want to look into.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Nenka's Avatar
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    Re: NOTICE: Fun at Shambhala Sun

    It occurs to me I may be overstepping my bounds in having said all this. If so, I apologize; my own experience with editors has made this whole thing maybe too interesting for me.

    I believe a spiritual teacher has the right to say whatever he chooses to his sangha, in his own words . . . . and it's not my place to lecture on what I feel is right speech.

  5. #5

    Re: NOTICE: Fun at Shambhala Sun

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer G P
    It occurs to me I may be overstepping my bounds in having said all this. If so, I apologize; my own experience with editors has made this whole thing maybe too interesting for me.

    I believe a spiritual teacher has the right to say whatever he chooses to his sangha, in his own words . . . . and it's not my place to lecture on what I feel is right speech.
    No, thank you.

    Dogen and some of the teachers of old used to call Buddhists they were criticizing "stinking skin bags" and such ... so I thought I was being quite mild. I suppose we lose some sensitivity to language at times.

    Gassho, Jundo

  6. #6
    Senior Member pinoybuddhist's Avatar
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    Re: NOTICE: Fun at Shambhala Sun

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer G P
    Huh, and they still turned it down? Odd.

    As a writer myself, I know how annoying it is to have one's work meddled with by editors. I must confess, however, I have no problem with them taking out the boldface parts . . . if only because everything in print or on the internet or t.v. these days is so full of loaded language and namecalling. I think "the snake oil, the image-driven jive and hype, the soothing but empty cliches, the charismatic charlatans, the fast food drive-though spirituality" gets your point across PERFECTLY without the (forgive me) lower word-slinging of "crazy cults," "downright crooks and con-men," etc. Maybe it's just me; I've become really sensitive to that, even (especially?) when it comes to viewpoints I actually agree with.

    Still, I'm disturbed that they didn't approve of your message in general. Maybe it comes too close to describing some of the New Age gurus they promote?
    Hmmm... maybe. I like the new version that the editor did. I don't see why he doesn't like the theme, but maybe it really does come dangerously close to describing some people.

  7. #7

    Re: NOTICE: Fun at Shambhala Sun

    Hi all,

    Although my native language is not English (yes it's French, how did you guess.. ), I don't feel really happy when I bump into an editor that doesn't know much about writing and gives writing lessons, changes the wording and the likes...The poor guy has two issues here; he thinks he is clever (very common disease) and he definitely has a clear idea: to edit stuff which is tasteless and can suit all palates and tastes. He does with Buddhism what fast food is to real cooking: he simplifies flavours and hides the poor quality of the product behind much heavy ideological seasoning and politically correct bable. Not so long ago, I was teaching in the French University, working with guys like Lyotard, leading writing workshops, leading litterature seminars and I did publish quite a lot...and I regularly had the impression of being looked at like an odd and clumsy French frog that can hardly make sense in the written world and doesn't know much about the language of Shakespeare...So be it. I don't really care. Meanwhile what could be a very good media is, in the hands of a teenage mind and a mercantile board of Budinesmen, Buddhists making business and only that, a missed opportunity for genuine and original expression. Very sad.

    Taigu

  8. #8

    Re: NOTICE: Fun at Shambhala Sun

    Hi.

    Just emphasising...

    Quote Originally Posted by Taigu
    Meanwhile what could be a very good media is, in the hands of a teenage mind and a mercantile board of Budinesmen, Buddhists making business and only that, a missed opportunity for genuine and original expression. Very sad.
    Yes.
    Very sad.
    And sometimes it seems common to...
    But an good opportunity for practice.

    Mtfbwy
    Fugen

  9. #9

    Re: NOTICE: Fun at Shambhala Sun

    When Treeleaf teachings moved it seemed like a good thing. Good connectivity, introduction of Treeleaf Sangha to others, however once the teachings started I noticed that they became more formal, loosing the texture of Jundo’s earlier teachings.

    I really missed Jundo taking us into the real world, up Mt. Tsukuba, down to Mc Donald’s with Leon, and watching the teachings from his yard as the seasons changed.

    I guess as noted before in this thread, it is very much like commercial eating establishments. Furr’s Cafeteria, all you can eat, biscuits and gravy and lots of other things along the food trough. Osaka Grill, great show, lots of really salty food, etc, but again no down to earth quality. I think of comparing Osaka restaurant with a little family restaurant down on First Street in LA across from the old Buddhist temple. One is a flash in the pan, too much food, poor quality, the other is a place to relax with, enjoy a simple meal and always being surprised by something extra the elderly mother use to cook each day. Like Jundo’s early teachings, simple, tied to real life, and always a little surprise.

    For me, glad to leave the flashy Buddhist cafeteria line and return home to Treeleaf, where teaching and sangha interaction are all in one place.

    Jim

  10. #10

    Re: NOTICE: Fun at Shambhala Sun

    Well hush my mouth and shut me up! The editors published the article today (with the edits previously mentioned however)! I owe them an apology for that!

    http://www.shambhalasun.com/sunspace/?p=18834

  11. #11

    Re: NOTICE: Fun at Shambhala Sun

    Very good post/sit-a-long.

    Taigu sensei, too bad you don't express how you really feel ( yes, that is sarcasm). hehehe

    I think this post is very, very relevant. Sometimes I think I can be drawn to esoteric practices. That's probably what initially drew me to Zen. I had no inkling of actually doing the work, the practice, upholding precepts. I just thought the stories I read in "THe Gateless Gate" were kind of cool. Sort of why I was drawn to Chuang-Tzu as well.

    When I look back, I'm exactly at the perfect point based on where I started on this path. Fortunately, and I really am thankful for htis practice, I'm actually practicing now. I don't know what spurned that to start. I cannot pinpoint it, but I'm thankful that I've found this practice.

    Unfortunately, it's easy to be misled. I guess it's also a truism that we are responsible for our lives including "letting" ourselves be fooled by charlatans.

    I'm just very thankful to have found a legitimate practice with a great Sangha.

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